This is my first post on this forum so hello everyone. Excuse me if I am asking a question that has already been answered before.....:D, i did hit the search button before posting but couldn't really find anything useful. My question is what sort of restrictions if any does the factor air flow sensor place on power output ? Anyone have any healthy information ?

This is my first post on this forum so hello everyone. Excuse me if I am asking a question that has already been answered before.....:D, i did hit the search button before posting but couldn't really find anything useful. My question is what sort of restrictions if any does the factor air flow sensor place on power output ? Anyone have any healthy information ?

Im currently putting 162kw ATW through mine and no restriction at all. You cannot remove the MAF without a piggyback/full ecu replacement

Our type of MAF (Karman Vortex) are pretty good restriction-wise, unless you are flowing a rather large amount of HP, I don't think you'll find it's any restriction.

RPW's twin turbo magna used to use the factory ECU + Greddy Emanage, so obviously was still using the factory MAF. I believe it was supposedly was making ~500hp. (~370kw). So obviously with FI the MAF can flow PLENTY of power.

Not sure what kind of power level it would become a serious restriction in an NA application, but if I had to make semi-educated guess, it would be somewhere north of 200wkw I imagine.


Im currently putting 162kw ATW through mine and no restriction at all. You cannot remove the MAF without a piggyback/full ecu replacement

Can't remove the MAF if you are using a piggyback...the factory ECU requires the MAF to run, the piggyback simply intercepts and manipulates the signal to trim fueling, by 'tricking' the factory ECU.

you can change the MAF though to somethign with higher resolution and larger bore witha piggyback, but come to think of it i doubt there is much better then the stocko item.

if the RPW magna still had the stock MAF and made 370kw, then its likely thats not near its maxium threshold. Point being, is this device is mounted before the turbocharger, it still metering air the same was as stock, compeltely draw through. So at 370kw (500HP) it still has room to move, i dont hink you will ever see that power on a NA 6G.

Thanks for you feedback guys! I feel that you have all made reference or have cars with FI application so the playing fields are somewhat different in NA form as both supercharged & turbo suck or push air. If there is anyone that can assist with some information on this topic say in NA form that would be fantastic.

its also at full duty cycle at 80% throttle as well. IIRC from Ian told me.

Check out the white car in my Mallala thread in the S.A. section.

Thanks Mate.....Thats what I was looking for very helpful.... there is a Magna on this very forum in NA form that has got 210+ ATWKW.... I would really like to see an under bonnet shot of that car as I pretty sure its running a re-flashed standard ECU with the standard air flow sensor also ..... I think its white as well !

Need More Info ...... or photo's anyone?

Check out the white car in my Mallala thread in the S.A. section.

Thanks Mate.....Thats what I was looking for very helpful.... there is a Magna on this very forum in NA form that has got 210+ ATWKW.... I would really like to see an under bonnet shot of that car as I pretty sure its running a re-flashed standard ECU with the standard air flow sensor also ..... I think its white as well !

Need More Info ...... or photo's anyone?

Yeah thats Jasonsvrx, he wont post pics because he did all his R&D etc and doesnt like people stealing/piggybacking ideas, if you ask nicely he may PM/email you one across though.

That sucks dogs nuts ! Don't think I will bother this guy, obviously he keeps his cards extremely close to his chest.... but he must have a secret or two or the key to the intake mod to get that sort of power with the standard ecu & air flow sensor :D


Yeah thats Jasonsvrx, he wont post pics because he did all his R&D etc and doesnt like people stealing/piggybacking ideas, if you ask nicely he may PM/email you one across though.

What sort of inlet manifold is that on those race cars ? 380 ? or custom ?:confused:
Check out the white car in my Mallala thread in the S.A. section.

That sucks dogs nuts ! Don't think I will bother this guy, obviously he keeps his cards extremely close to his chest.... but he must have a secret or two or the key to the intake mod to get that sort of power with the standard ecu & air flow sensor :D

Yeah, secret is that he has an unlocked ECU (found in some TH magnas) and he had it retuned by a bloke in SA, i dont know the guys name either. And his power isnt from just the intake.

NA is simple, Big cams, High compression, headwork and a decent exhaust.

**** I better start saving !! or go FI

**** I better start saving !! or go FI

Without turning this into a NA vs FI thread

to achieve 200kw Genuine atw, expect 5 digits no matter which way you go.

Sadly there is no "cheap" power even in mild bolt ons.

Thanks mate I better go open a bottle of sumthin !!


Without turning this into a NA vs FI thread

to achieve 200kw Genuine atw, expect 5 digits no matter which way you go.

Sadly there is no "cheap" power even in mild bolt ons.

Thanks for you feedback guys! I feel that you have all made reference or have cars with FI application so the playing fields are somewhat different in NA form as both supercharged & turbo suck or push air. If there is anyone that can assist with some information on this topic say in NA form that would be fantastic.

induction is irrelevant, since the Karmen vortex is used in suck through only. turbo/supercharged or not, it still has to meter all air at normal atmosphereic pressure (its not placed on the pressure side of the turbo/supercharger so it only sees normal atmospheric pressure just like NA)

Just to clear it up.

Thanks mate very useful info :D


induction is irrelevant, since the Karmen vortex is used in suck through only. turbo/supercharged or not, it still has to meter all air at normal atmosphereic pressure (its not placed on the pressure side of the turbo/supercharger so it only sees normal atmospheric pressure just like NA)

Just to clear it up.

induction is irrelevant, since the Karmen vortex is used in suck through only. turbo/supercharged or not, it still has to meter all air at normal atmosphereic pressure (its not placed on the pressure side of the turbo/supercharger so it only sees normal atmospheric pressure just like NA)

Just to clear it up.

You 100% sure of this? when i look at QMD801's blower kit, his MAF is mounted after the blower...... Same with Johnboy.

What sort of inlet manifold is that on those race cars ? 380 ? or custom ?:confused:

380 mate

Thanks Mate.....Thats what I was looking for very helpful.... there is a Magna on this very forum in NA form that has got 210+ ATWKW.... I would really like to see an under bonnet shot of that car as I pretty sure its running a re-flashed standard ECU with the standard air flow sensor also ..... I think its white as well !

Need More Info ...... or photo's anyone?
I hope I'm not breaking any rules or stepping on Jason's toes (but it is publicly available if you search for it), but is this the under bonnet shot you were looking for?

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4161/jasons14zj0.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jasons14zj0.jpg)

I say thats a pretty old photo you have there mate... NZ CAI looks good tho !




I hope I'm not breaking any rules or stepping on Jason's toes (but it is publicly available if you search for it), but is this the under bonnet shot you were looking for?

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4161/jasons14zj0.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jasons14zj0.jpg)

You 100% sure of this? when i look at QMD801's blower kit, his MAF is mounted after the blower...... Same with Johnboy.

MAF's can be mounted after the turbo/supercharger no problems and in a lot of cases allows finer tuning. This is commonly done on nissans because of the fact it runs a MAF not a MAP sensor, reversion from the turbocharger (running big boost, big comp housing) messes up the readings of the AFM/MAF as it reads air both ways causing massive overfuelling issues. A way to get around this is to put the MAF sensor inline with one of the Intercooler pipes, usually between the IC and TB on the cold pipe.

Due to the shape of the Karmen Vortex i havent seen this before but if you have then i beleive you as there no real reason why it cant be done.

Just saying that when placed in a common factory location (at begining of inlet tract) the induction type will have no bearing of the MAF"s resolution (ability to meter air) its just you wont be able to outflow it without a whack of boost.

also after having looked at QMD///108 supercharger setup, the MAF is not on the pressure side of the supercharger. The blue silicon pipes go to the water2air intercooler just before the TB and the inlet to the supercharger, goes tot he stock air box looking thing, where i assume the MAF is mounted. This is what i see anyways. I could be wrong, im not up to date on his build, but just skimmng the pics it looks toight.

Lionel

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58453
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59042

You can see the top of the MAF just past the W2A and the silicon reducer to go back to the TB.

oh yeah i can make it out in those pics, i was looking at the red one and couldnt see it.

Anyways, it will work perfectly fine but will require retuning if moved from before the blower to after it. Does seem odd to put it htere, there is obviously a reason, but putting it before the supercharger surely wouldnt subject it to so much heat cycling.

Good pics though

This is my first post on this forum so hello everyone. Excuse me if I am asking a question that has already been answered before.....:D, i did hit the search button before posting but couldn't really find anything useful. My question is what sort of restrictions if any does the factor air flow sensor place on power output ? Anyone have any healthy information ?
Hi mate, my mates magna cracked 205 kwatw yesterday and they were playing around with the airflow meter and found it did'nt affect power output at all. These people are very experienced so take it as gospel.
Hope this helps save you some time and money.

The stock airflow meter isnt much restriction in a NA engine until you get to around 230kws@wheels then it starts to cause some restriction. The main problem i have with the factory airflow meter is resolution once the engine starts flowing alot of air and as the revs get into the 7000+ rpm area it gets hard to control and tune but it is achievable just

Here is a bit more recent underbonnet pic with the "streetfighter" manifold on my car, this picture still shows my car with a bored out (to 71mm) factory TB which is now in the process of being changed over to a 85mm Holley TB:

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2088/streetfightermanifolddu1.th.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=streetfightermanifolddu1.jpg)http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9521/streetfightermanifold2ur8.th.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=streetfightermanifold2ur8.jpg)

On the Magna FI setup, place the MAF BEFORE the boosting device. These meters hate being blown THRU. RIPP had lots of excitement with their centrifugal kit boosting thru the meter.