I know the rage is to have many gears (6 or 7 must be better than 4 or 5, watch the manufacturers compete) but tell me what you think. Is 5 speed Magna any better than 4 speed? Look at the performance figures and fuel consumption they are the same.
Maybe the extra gear change when accelerating and decelerating uses fuel and loses time on acceleration. Also of course more wear (extra changes and then more crap floating around in the tranny). The tiptronic function is something else (but I know people who have not used their tippy for years).
On another point drove a VW with DSG (twin clutch) auto and was not impressed at all. Wonder how it will last?

I was under the impression that more gears = better. You can keep your revs lower so lowering the amount of fuel being used. I could be completely wrong though lol

Maybe you need a powerglide. :roll:

I was under the impression that more gears = better. You can keep your revs lower so lowering the amount of fuel being used. I could be completely wrong though lol

thats what i thought also, also meant to be smoother? and would be better fuel econ at higher speeds

I guess more gears is also better in terms of kickdown acceleration. I find it frustrating prodding the gas at low speed expecting 1st but getting 2nd and then having to wait for Maggie to get into the power/torque band. Although in most situations I find 4 speeds is fine and it is a smooth auto which is important. No point having a lot of gears if the shifts are abrupt.

i would love an ectra gear on my 5 speed, since i did my manual conversion fuel consumption has risen sharply

i am not driving it differently, it just seems that cruising even at 70km/hr its better to have it in 5th, and on the freeway it needs a 6th speed to keep the revs below 3000rpm

i would love an ectra gear on my 5 speed, since i did my manual conversion fuel consumption has risen sharply

i am not driving it differently, it just seems that cruising even at 70km/hr its better to have it in 5th, and on the freeway it needs a 6th speed to keep the revs below 3000rpm
on the freeway im doing about 2300ish, dunno where 3000 comes in, mines also manual, but i agree, a 6th gear would be awesome

i would love an ectra gear on my 5 speed, since i did my manual conversion fuel consumption has risen sharply

i am not driving it differently, it just seems that cruising even at 70km/hr its better to have it in 5th, and on the freeway it needs a 6th speed to keep the revs below 3000rpm
Hmm, 3000rpm in 5th on a 5sp Magna - 140km/h?

110 in 4th in an auto 3lt is about 2400rpm for me...

obviously it depends on how the gear ratios are setup, but having more gears is an advantage. it gives more flexibility when driving and can improve fuel economy while cruising, while still giving sharp performance under acceleration.

apparently the only reason the VW DSG is faster to 100km/h than the manual is the gearing of 1st, 2nd and 3rd. I have found the DSG to be reasonable, except when you're stopped on a hill or incline. it has a tendency to roll down the hill even when in gear. don't get me started on the electronic throttle though!!

I agree with MAD35L about the short 5th in the manual 5sp. I used to sit on 2200 rpm doing 110km/h (4sp tiptronic), now I do 2800 rpm. a 6th gear (or taller 5th) would be nice!

cheers,
.wook

Hmm, 3000rpm in 5th on a 5sp Magna - 140km/h?

110 in 4th in an auto 3lt is about 2400rpm for me...

i see you totally missed my point, ill explain in simpler terms

when i had an auto it would sit at about 2200rpm at 110km/hr

now its a manual it sits at about 2800rpm at 110km/hr

this equals worse fuel economy

just read wookies post, im glad im not the only 1

I find that 5 speed autos is plenty with 6 being the limit with our sometimes stupid speed limits.
Don't know how economical an 8 speed auto Lexus is. Wonder if it uses 8th at 100k's

I agree with the manual guys here. At 100 km/h my manual's spinning along at 2600 rpm as opposed to 2200 rpm when it was a 4-spd auto. How easily could you get a custom made ratio for the manual for 5th?

I agree with the manual guys here. At 100 km/h my manual's spinning along at 2600 rpm as opposed to 2200 rpm when it was a 4-spd auto. How easily could you get a custom made ratio for the manual for 5th?

I'd be interested in that too - I'm buying a manual in August so long as the loan gets approved.

For the auto comparison (4 vs 5 speed) I thought that the extra gear was in-between 1 & 2 for 4 speed. that is, the 3rd gear ratio for the 5 speed is the same as the 2nd ratio for a 4 speed. This would give better take off as well as possibly a smoother change for the first 3 gears but make no difference as to the highway engine speed as the ratios are the same between the 4sp & 5sp.

just to clear up some confusion about gearing, here are the relevant ratios for 3.5L 3rd gens...

format is
gear - ratio (engine revs per wheel revs)

6G74 4sp Auto/Tiptronic

1st - 3.036 (9.940)
2nd - 1.597 (5.229)
3rd - 1.068 (3.497)
4th - 0.781 (2.557)

Rev - 2.906 (9.514)

Final - 3.274

6G74 5sp Tiptronic

1st - 3.789 (13.959)
2nd - 2.057 (7.578)
3rd - 1.421 (5.235)
4th - 1.000 (3.684)
5th - 0.731 (2.693)

Rev - 3.865 (14.239)

Final - 3.684

6G74 5sp Manual

1st - 3.583 (13.336)
2nd - 2.105 (7.835)
3rd - 1.407 (5.237)
4th - 1.031 (3.837)
5th - 0.761 (2.832)

Rev - 3.416 (12.714)

Final - 3.722

which means the 4sp Auto will be more efficient on the highway, but is stupidly tall in 1st and 2nd. 2nd in a 4sp 'box is almost 3rd in each of the others.

cheers,
.wook

I agree with Wookiee's last post, and thank you for posting those gear ratio specs there too.

In practical terms, I find the 4-speed 3.5's to have a very tall 1st and 2nd. Whilst they still perform quite well, many 3.5 4sp owners would have noticed that between 0-15km/h under slow to moderate acceleration, the transmission just holds the revs at 1250rpm or whatever it is, before it finally picks up the tall 1st gear - whereas, with the 5sp auto 3.5, the (comparatively) really short 1st gear engages almost from a standstill and the revs go up and off you go.

The 5sp certainly gives the impression of being perkier from 0-40km/h and getting off the line smartly. Whether that's because the revs are going up so much quicker, so the sound gives you the impression, or whether the car is actually accelerating faster, I cannot verify. Perhaps others on here can confirm this?

Interestingly though, the 4sp autos do exactly 2000rpm in 4th @ 100km/h, whereas the 5sp autos do 2200rpm.
Once again, I wonder if this makes their highway economy a bit worse, or is it too negligible to notice.

Catch 22-situation : Because of this shorter 5th gear, the 5sp will get into top gear if you accelerate lightly, around 47km/h (which is probably a bit labourious at 1050rpm, many owners on here have commented the car labours at this point) whereas the 4sp will wait till 58km/h or 1200rpm before shifting into top.

Once in 5th, I've found the transmission needs quite a firm throttle to drop back into 4th, or 3rd

.


Catch 22-situation : Because of this shorter 5th gear, the 5sp will get into top gear from 47km/h (which is probably a bit labourious at 1050rpm, many owners on here have commented the car labours at this point) whereas the 4sp will wait till 58km/h or 1200rpm before shifting into top.

That's not always true, if i'm first of the lights and get to accelerate how i want to, it won't shift into 5th untill 60 to 70k's. if i'm stuck behind some old biddy at the lights, then yeah it shifts to 5th real early

Hmm, 3000rpm in 5th on a 5sp Magna - 140km/h?5spd manual, 3000rpm is 120km/h exactly. Very short geared - you tag the limiter in 1st at 65, in second at 105, and third at 150km/h.
It'll also happily pull from 40km/h (1000rpm) in 5th.

I wish the gears in the 5 speed were a bit longer. First gear especially.

in 5th in a manual, 3000rpm = 120km/h

It'll also happily pull from 40km/h (1000rpm) in 5th.

That it will :D

The gears in the 4sp are tall, 140kph in 2nd.

i see you totally missed my point, ill explain in simpler terms

when i had an auto it would sit at about 2200rpm at 110km/hr

now its a manual it sits at about 2800rpm at 110km/hr

this equals worse fuel economy


not necessarly... just because the engine is revving harder doesnt mean its working harder (load).. i reckon you'd use more fuel in the auto even though the manual box causes the car to rev a bit harder at a given speed...


maybe you've been driving your car a bit harder since youve gone manual which has caused your poorer fuel economy, not the manual box...

a manual v6 magna will get better fuel economy than an auto........

caught myself out a few times in the TF looking for 6th on an onramp

I wish the gears in the 5 speed were a bit longer. First gear especially.Yeah, but the ideal launch technique (3000rpm, slip clutch hold 3000rpm until it's matched to speed then full throttle) works so well.

not necessarly... just because the engine is revving harder doesnt mean its working harder (load).. i reckon you'd use more fuel in the auto even though the manual box causes the car to rev a bit harder at a given speed...


maybe you've been driving your car a bit harder since youve gone manual which has caused your poorer fuel economy, not the manual box...

a manual v6 magna will get better fuel economy than an auto........

this not the case at all

the first 2 weeks i got the conversion i drove it harder, now i drive it the same if not easier, fuel economy dropped by about 60km/tank

me and FFEEkY kinda did a small test between the 5sp auto v's the 5sp man, we both drove at 80km/h for about 120km.

average fuel came back at about (please note it did include about 20km of city driving) 9.5 for the man and 9.7 for the auto.

So f all difference, but the cars drove at a lower speed both very close.

In saying that we did a 110 run and well i think the auto kicked my ****.....close to a litre difference I think.

not necessarly... just because the engine is revving harder doesnt mean its working harder (load).. i reckon you'd use more fuel in the auto even though the manual box causes the car to rev a bit harder at a given speed...


maybe you've been driving your car a bit harder since youve gone manual which has caused your poorer fuel economy, not the manual box...

a manual v6 magna will get better fuel economy than an auto........

that's a blanket statement and obviously not correct in every circumstance.

my experience has been that around town in the manual I use slightly less fuel, but on the highway I'm using 1+L/100km more. a trip to Sydney used to get me down into the 8s, now I'm lucky to get into the 9s.

and for the record, 2nd gear in the 4sp auto is worth an indicated 160+km/h (157km/h on the performance box).

cheers,
.wook

that's a blanket statement and obviously not correct in every circumstance.

my experience has been that around town in the manual I use slightly less fuel, but on the highway I'm using 1+L/100km more. a trip to Sydney used to get me down into the 8s, now I'm lucky to get into the 9s.

and for the record, 2nd gear in the 4sp auto is worth an indicated 160+km/h (157km/h on the performance box).

cheers,
.wook

fair enough.... my MAIN point was the higher RPM doesnt necessarly mean poorer fuel economy.,,

im very suprised to hear people are getting worse fuel economy, on the highway, in there manual magnas....

Yeah, but the ideal launch technique (3000rpm, slip clutch hold 3000rpm until it's matched to speed then full throttle) works so well.

If i had a clutch :cry: , sorry should have specified first in 5 speed AUTO is too short.

easy way of getting a longer final drive ratio
add 20's

I find that 5 speed autos is plenty with 6 being the limit with our sometimes stupid speed limits.
Don't know how economical an 8 speed auto Lexus is. Wonder if it uses 8th at 100k's

some of the new civics can be optioned with a 6speed auto - and it doesnt engage until approx 90km/hr
not sure what spec civic it is, but yeah you can get em. (mate had one) gives fantastic econ out on the highway.

shame the 5speed (autos) dont lock out 5th until a lil later.
Edit: and a 6th gear in manual would be good i think - could get em in a VN SS - why not a late model magna?! (mind you, the VNs would be bearly ticking over at 100km @ 1100rpm... which ISNT always a good thing)

not on topic i know, but it sorta half was in a way...

One would expect cars with extra gears to have a tall top gear (so it would have made sense for Mitsubishi to make 5th on manual and 5 speed autos taller than 4 speed). There could still be good spread between gears (to stay within torque range of engine = good acceleration). Low revs (within reason) in top gear means low wear, quiet and good fuel consumption. In fact the 4 speed auto could cruise quite easily at lower revs than it does (I calculated that my 4 speed atuto does 110 kph @ 2150 RPM), because it eats hills without changing down and doesn't feel like it is running out of puff, so engine not labouring. If the 4 speed was any quicker off the mark (if the first and second gear ratio were like the 5 speed) would probably only result in wheel spin like crazy. So LSD would be necessary and I don't think any of the 4 speed autos had LSD (stand to be corrected).The 380 is interesting as the manual must be a great car for accelerating, but probably noisey at 110kmp. The Manual ahs worse fuel consumption than the auto. The 380 auto has great gearing and will cruise at low revs. That with the powerful motor seems ideal.

from memory the difference between the 4 speed and 5 speed auto is the addition of a short 1st gear to the 5 speed.. the 2,3,4,5 gear on the 5 speed are similar, if not the same, ratios as 1,2,3,4 on the 4 speed..


thats what i recall but could be wrong...

from memory the difference between the 4 speed and 5 speed auto is the addition of a short 1st gear to the 5 speed.. the 2,3,4,5 gear on the 5 speed are similar, if not the same, ratios as 1,2,3,4 on the 4 speed..


thats what i recall but could be wrong...

bzzzt, wrong.

http://aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=971785&postcount=16

easy way of getting a longer final drive ratio
add 20's

I like your thinkin mate, might be a good excuse to go 20's :D