hey,

Ive got a 98 TF wagon with a 3L v6 in it, i bought the car as a daily driver (ive got a toyota supra im working) a month ago and initially loved it, anyway its been going down hill quickly since i got the car, (rear pads wore to bare metal 2 weeks after a rwc..... ::shock: )

anyway a ticking noise surfaced around 2 weeks ago. i suspected injectors/lifters, i ruled out injectors by unplugging 1 at a time to see if the noise stopped then listened with a screw driver,

so i pulled the rocker arms off the motor and inspected the lifters, most of them colapse into them self but have no spring ( i assume they're hydraulic or something )and the other few are jammed, i assume these jammed ones are the noisy ones, how do you take apart the lifters in the magna's? id like to clean the crap out/deburr them so i can go back to having a quiet daily.

and yes ive soaked them over night and nope didnt fix the issue

i should also note ive had no luck sourcing new lifters.... havnt gone to mitshibishi direct yet, i imagine they'd want $8ea or something.. id prefer to clean them than replace as its a daily and i want to save $$

Its a common issue - don't sweat it. Noise should disappear when the car reaches operating temp.

Every V6 Magna ticks.

Yeah mine sounds a bit like that but it runs perfectly fine. Gonna try some Nulon Lifter treatment stuff when I change my oil next (very shortly).

My sisters new TJ doesn't tick with twice the kms :(

hi gordonnnnnnnn


mine doesnt tick *touch wood*

ill show ya tonight

*touch wood*

ill show ya tonight

Ewwww.....

Ewwww.....
your just jealous

Yeah mine sounds a bit like that but it runs perfectly fine. Gonna try some Nulon Lifter treatment stuff when I change my oil next (very shortly).

I used this product last week and it made the cold morning ticking go away completely! It also has made the engine feel much smoother when cold. Well worth it!

Hope I get that result.

I occasionally get a rattle sort of sound when i start on a cool morning, turning it off and straight back on has been the solution up till now.

Yep! I had & did the axact same thing. Run for a min and then restart. This became the largest pain in the Known World before morning coffee! You should have no issues after this stuff.

You can not pull them apart, cleaning is also useless with these

You need new ones, they are about 15 bucks each.

When you do these also clean up the rockers and pay special attention to the little bleed holes in the top of the rockers where the lash adjusters go.

The good ones should be firm, the crap ones will be springy as the tiny little valve internally will ahve either blocked itself or will no longer be holding pressure.

If you are not sure on what to do, feel free to arrange a time for me to look at it

I don't think anyone but madmagna understood, they don't tick just on start up... they tick ALL the time

btw trav needs moar turbo's


You can not pull them apart, cleaning is also useless with these

You need new ones, they are about 15 bucks each.

When you do these also clean up the rockers and pay special attention to the little bleed holes in the top of the rockers where the lash adjusters go.

The good ones should be firm, the crap ones will be springy as the tiny little valve internally will ahve either blocked itself or will no longer be holding pressure.

If you are not sure on what to do, feel free to arrange a time for me to look at it

Awesome cheers :) where abouts are you from?

but im sure you can pull them apart (i could be wrong) $360 for a set of lifters... what a kick in the pants! i also checked the bleed holes, they appear to be fine, just so we are clear im talking about "lash ajusters"

like these little suckers (except for a magna)
http://i8.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/1b/ac/6bf4_1.JPG

i don't think i need 24 of them, maybe atleast 4 for 1 bank and how ever many for the other bank... i ran nulon lifter free through it, didn't help :( i think ill replace the seized ones and do a oil change and see how it is then

after all, every cent spent on my magna is a cent not spent on my supra *waits to be flammed* and i want to break 200rwkw soon :P

madmagna if you want to see what im talking about ill let you know then pull it all apart :P

btw where do you get the lash ajusters from? mitshibishi? if im reallly cheap i might get some from the wreckers ($3 each)

and trav, help me put audio in the magna :P

The sport was rattling its brains out so i put a bottle of WYNNS ENGINE FLUSH in it and drove around for about 2 weeks,as soon as it stoped i changed the oil and filter,fixed,quiet as a mouse,that was about 3 months ago.
WYNNS ENGINE FLUSH is the only one that you can drive around with it still in your engine without hurting it.
It works.

You can also use Nulon "lifter free",stocked at all the Mits deralers here in adelaide (not the most re-assuring!) and supercrap,repco etc,and can be used while driving aswell as per the Wynns stuff,give either a try!

Steve

You can not pull them apart, cleaning is also useless with these

You need new ones, they are about 15 bucks each.

When you do these also clean up the rockers and pay special attention to the little bleed holes in the top of the rockers where the lash adjusters go.

Any kind of guide on how to replace them?

A friend's TH wagon was way overdue for service, so I did it for him, changed oil using magnatec, wasn't excessively noisy in the lifters, but after a few mins warming up started running rough and missing

Went and got some Nulon lifter-free

After idling for a few mins you could hear the idle change and the roughness improve, and then after about another min there was another noticeable improvement

The friend commented how his car was now "better than it had ever been"


My own TJ2 has always had that noisy ticking sound, even after using lifter-free at an earlier service

So at the last oil change I fitted a Ryco oil filter with the 'anti drain-back valve - it's now about 80% less noisy than previously

Cheers

A friend's TH wagon was way overdue for service, so I did it for him, changed oil using magnatec, wasn't excessively noisy in the lifters, but after a few mins warming up started running rough and missing

Went and got some Nulon lifter-free

After idling for a few mins you could hear the idle change and the roughness improve, and then after about another min there was another noticeable improvement

The friend commented how his car was now "better than it had ever been"


My own TJ2 has always had that noisy ticking sound, even after using lifter-free at an earlier service

So at the last oil change I fitted a Ryco oil filter with the 'anti drain-back valve - it's now about 80% less noisy than previously

Cheers

Seems to be good stuff!,in regards to your own car,what brand oil filter was you using that didnt have a anti drain back valve?,as ive yet to come across a major brand one that hasnt!,and do they only tap at first starup in the morning etc,as this is the when the valve works to do its job

Steve

since when did this thread become a plug for lifter cleaners?

i used nulon lifter cleaner already, didnt work because they're too badly damaged, i geuss ill go hunting for some non broken ones this weekend

you don't need a guide on how to change lifters, what you need is common sense, seriously unbolt rocker covers (and intake manifold for the back bank) undo bolts securing in rocker arms, remove rocker arms, remove lifters before the fall into the motor (they will!)

anyway what i want to know is from factory are they supposed to be spring loaded?

since when did this thread become a plug for lifter cleaners?

Uh, since people were saying how it stopped the noise in their cars :nuts:


you don't need a guide on how to change lifters

I do my friend, sorry I don't know as much as you about this, and I would like to learn, hence why I asked if someone could write the steps for doing it.

Seems to be good stuff!,in regards to your own car,what brand oil filter was you using that didnt have a anti drain back valve?,as ive yet to come across a major brand one that hasnt!,and do they only tap at first starup in the morning etc,as this is the when the valve works to do its job

Steve

From memory it may have been a valvoline which, at that time IIRC they had a by-pass valve for when/if the oil passage became blocked

Well, it tapped a lot on start-up, and even more when returning home!

Yeah mine sounds a bit like that but it runs perfectly fine. Gonna try some Nulon Lifter treatment stuff when I change my oil next (very shortly).

My sisters new TJ doesn't tick with twice the kms :(

I was at autobarn today and picked up some LiquiMoli Tappet Noise Stop.

http://www.liqui-moly.com.au/product1.htm

Was only $3 more than the Wynns stuff and $4 more than the Nulon. Gave it a go, and will report back and let you know how it went.

As far as the engine flush goes, I used Wurth Engine Flush and Engine Additive. Put in Castrol Magnatec for now just to run it in, but going to replace it with Penrite HPR 10W-40 or Nulon 10w-40 Fully Synthetic.

Do you guys want to know a secret? the lifter noise free is just a kero solvent based fluid, does nothing except thin out oil hence giving the "impression" of it working. Oh thats the same with liqui moly as well, they stamp everything with the testing mark but even there rep said only there teflon based premium oil lubricant got tested. Just a tidy ploy there.

Ahhhh the joys of knowing the back ways of additives

The only real way of fixing this is to replace the lifters, and use a decent high quality oil (penrite etc)

Uh, since people were saying how it stopped the noise in their cars :nuts:

i know :) im not trying to be a ass, however i believe my lifters are damaged as they do not just tick on startup,
im still trying to figure out what they're suppsoed to be like when not broken

so can someone please tell me

are they supposed to be 1 of 3 things

1) collapsible no spring (uses fluid to pump)
2) collapsible with spring (like the ford i6s lash ajusters)
3) solid (not supposed to collapse)


For anyone wanting to remove lifters here you go.

Tools needed:
plyers
10mm socket
12mm socket
socket wrench/breaker bar
torque wrench (not %100 nessecary)

Note:
1)don't star the motor with no rocker covers on... it makes a very big mess....VERY big mess... trust me...
2) dont over torque the rocker cover bolts, they will snap easy OR rip the thread, alloy is a very soft material and thread is easily ripped out & trust me retapping isnt very fun...

FRONT BANK-

1) undo 6x10mm bolts round the rocker cover
2) using plyers slide the ring clip back on the right side rocker cover breather
3) remove the left breather hose to the inlet manifold
4) remove rocker cover
5) undo the 6x12mm rocker rail bolts
When doing this be very careful, unto the bolts in order NOT from 1 side to the other but like such
135642 - be very carful not to drop a lifter into the motor as this can and will happen
6) before removing rocker arms GENTLY lift the rocker and remove the lifter GENTLY, if it will not come out pull it out with the rocker rail being careful not to drop them
7) remove rocker arms (watch out for dripping oil)

REAR BANK -

1) remove the 6x12mm bolts securing the intake manifold
2) remove the air intake pipe to thorttle body & undo the 4 bolts on the throttle body
3) undo the 3x12mm bolts supporting the intake manifold at the rear of it (facing firewall)
4) remove brake booster vac line to intake manifold
5) remove the bolts securing the wiring harness (10mm bolts)
6) remove intake manifold
7) remove rocker cover breather hose to rocker cover
8) remove 2x10mm bolts on the timing cover securing the rear rocker cover
9) remove the 6x10mm bolts on the rocker cover
10) remove rocker cover
11) undo the 6x12mm rocker rail bolts
When doing this be very careful, unto the bolts in order NOT from 1 side to the other but like such
135642 - be very carful not to drop a lifter into the motor as this can and will happen
12) before removing rocker arms GENTLY lift the rocker and remove the lifter GENTLY, if it will not come out pull it out with the rocker rail being careful not to drop them
13) remove rocker arms (watch out for dripping oil)
14) drink beer

REASSEMBLY - The tricky part

1) put the rocker arms back in WITHOUT the lifters,
2) align them by pressing the clips in and slotting them into the grooves in the head, DO NOT FORCE THEM!
3) insert lifters one at a time gently
4) get a beer
5) insert edge bolts on the rocker arm and tighten equally but do not torque tightly
6) insert the other rocker arm bolts & tighten loosely
7) tighten rocker rail bolts in this order 1-3-5-6-4-2 etc.
8) if you have a torque wrench match the torque, im not sure of the setting. don't do them up as hard as you can as they are weak bolts & if you over torque they will snap. consult service manual for exact torque setting
9) put rocker covers back on front and rear
10) re-install intake manifold & bolt everything back together
11) your done now go get another beer!

i'll get pictures and make a proper guide when i pull it apart this week

i know :) im not trying to be a ass, however i believe my lifters are damaged as they do not just tick on startup,
im still trying to figure out what they're suppsoed to be like when not broken

so can someone please tell me

are they supposed to be 1 of 3 things

1) collapsible no spring (uses fluid to pump)
2) collapsible with spring (like the ford i6s lash ajusters)
3) solid (not supposed to collapse)


For anyone wanting to remove lifters here you go.

Tools needed:
plyers
10mm socket
12mm socket
socket wrench/breaker bar
torque wrench (not %100 nessecary)

Note:
1)don't star the motor with no rocker covers on... it makes a very big mess....VERY big mess... trust me...
2) dont over torque the rocker cover bolts, they will snap easy OR rip the thread, alloy is a very soft material and thread is easily ripped out & trust me retapping isnt very fun...

FRONT BANK-

1) undo 6x10mm bolts round the rocker cover
2) using plyers slide the ring clip back on the right side rocker cover breather
3) remove the left breather hose to the inlet manifold
4) remove rocker cover
5) undo the 6x12mm rocker rail bolts
When doing this be very careful, unto the bolts in order NOT from 1 side to the other but like such
135642 - be very carful not to drop a lifter into the motor as this can and will happen
6) before removing rocker arms GENTLY lift the rocker and remove the lifter GENTLY, if it will not come out pull it out with the rocker rail being careful not to drop them
7) remove rocker arms (watch out for dripping oil)

REAR BANK -

1) remove the 6x12mm bolts securing the intake manifold
2) remove the air intake pipe to thorttle body & undo the 4 bolts on the throttle body
3) undo the 3x12mm bolts supporting the intake manifold at the rear of it (facing firewall)
4) remove brake booster vac line to intake manifold
5) remove the bolts securing the wiring harness (10mm bolts)
6) remove intake manifold
7) remove rocker cover breather hose to rocker cover
8) remove 2x10mm bolts on the timing cover securing the rear rocker cover
9) remove the 6x10mm bolts on the rocker cover
10) remove rocker cover
11) undo the 6x12mm rocker rail bolts
When doing this be very careful, unto the bolts in order NOT from 1 side to the other but like such
135642 - be very carful not to drop a lifter into the motor as this can and will happen
12) before removing rocker arms GENTLY lift the rocker and remove the lifter GENTLY, if it will not come out pull it out with the rocker rail being careful not to drop them
13) remove rocker arms (watch out for dripping oil)
14) drink beer

REASSEMBLY - The tricky part

1) put the rocker arms back in WITHOUT the lifters,
2) align them by pressing the clips in and slotting them into the grooves in the head, DO NOT FORCE THEM!
3) insert lifters one at a time gently
4) get a beer
5) insert edge bolts on the rocker arm and tighten equally but do not torque tightly
6) insert the other rocker arm bolts & tighten loosely
7) tighten rocker rail bolts in this order 1-3-5-6-4-2 etc.
8) if you have a torque wrench match the torque, im not sure of the setting. don't do them up as hard as you can as they are weak bolts & if you over torque they will snap. consult service manual for exact torque setting
9) put rocker covers back on front and rear
10) re-install intake manifold & bolt everything back together
11) your done now go get another beer!

i'll get pictures and make a proper guide when i pull it apart this week

Mate youre a legend, my 3.5 is ticking like a biatch all the time, even when warm, so it seems like i need to change some/all of the lifters, and i hate paying for labour, and i take any chance i get to do anything myself, to learn a bit as i go along. How long do you reckon this should take for a first try? And what part numbers are the lifters? Obviously i need gaskets, which ones? Sorry to be a pain!!

ummm inlet gasket is steel, so is the throttle gasket, no need to change!

reason for this is you have to remove the damn thing to change the rear spark plugs...


Not sure on part number if you find out let me know!, but yeah the key to lifters is being careful and keep some needle nose plyers handy for when you drop a lifter into the motor :P ive had to fish one out of every car ive worked on that has them.

im cheap and im just going to use 2nd handers from the wreckers :) its a pretty easy motor to work on, my supra is a pain in the A$$...

Lash adjusters are easily available after market, no issues there.

The ones that did not move are most likely the good ones, you need to put a small screwdriver or allen key into the hole and push the valve open, they should then compress. The ones that moved without this are the stuffed ones.

From memory the torque is 23nm but would check that as I have not got my chart here. ALWAYS use a torque wrench or get them done by someone who has one. that is if course if you want to have your cam continue to rotate and not seize up.

When I do this I give the entire rail a proper clean from end to end to ensure that all oil passages are very clean. If you do not you may find taps again after a few weeks / months

As for the various products, I personally use Wynns as I have seen the tests done on this product but having said this, it will only clear sludge etc and will not repair a broken lash adjuster valve. While you can perhaps clean up quieten some gummed up lash adjusters, replacement is the best shot.

Again, as for Oil, I only use Fuches or Penrite, will not touch Castrol or the others with a barge poll and guess what, I have never ever had any issue with oil related issues when using either of the above. (and yes, as previously stated, have had tests done on some oils after 5k of use)

I was at autobarn today and picked up some LiquiMoli Tappet Noise Stop.

http://www.liqui-moly.com.au/product1.htm

Was only $3 more than the Wynns stuff and $4 more than the Nulon. Gave it a go, and will report back and let you know how it went.

As far as the engine flush goes, I used Wurth Engine Flush and Engine Additive. Put in Castrol Magnatec for now just to run it in, but going to replace it with Penrite HPR 10W-40 or Nulon 10w-40 Fully Synthetic.


just so you know they give a money back guarantee on there products :D

Lol good thing then that the stuff worked!

Nice and quiet! Now to fix those leaking rocker cover gaskets.

mad magna your a legend !!!

i torqued mine to 30nm with a wrench and cleaned the oil galleries out with diesel when i had the rocker rails off.
makes sense, i only need aprox 7 new lifters :P ohh well, $3x7 at the wreckers sooo $21, :)

From memory it may have been a valvoline which, at that time IIRC they had a by-pass valve for when/if the oil passage became blocked

Well, it tapped a lot on start-up, and even more when returning home!

For more info, I checked, and the most recent filter used may have been a 'coop..' brand

I went back to my usual source and asked to see both types of filter

They appeared to have a similar anti drain-back valve, but the Rico was 5 - 10mm taller and had info on the box as to the quality of the filter media, so I am prepared to accept that the rico was a better design

The salesperson also commented that the 'Magna' was one of those cars that needed an oil filter of this type

For more info, I checked, and the most recent filter used may have been a 'coop..' brand

I went back to my usual source and asked to see both types of filter

They appeared to have a similar anti drain-back valve, but the Rico was 5 - 10mm taller and had info on the box as to the quality of the filter media, so I am prepared to accept that the rico was a better design

The salesperson also commented that the 'Magna' was one of those cars that needed an oil filter of this type

Errr Cooper and Ryco are all made in the same factory, just a different stamp on them, you can use a early model 4g15 filter (pretty much the same as a z456 or the cooper unit) as the threads are the same, however it is a prick to get off due to the length

Errr Cooper and Ryco are all made in the same factory, just a different stamp on them, you can use a early model 4g15 filter (pretty much the same as a z456 or the cooper unit) as the threads are the same, however it is a prick to get off due to the length

100% mate, Cooper, Ryco and many others are made in the same factory, FSA, Fram, AC Delco and many are made in another factory but are EXACTLY the same, all have a bypass valve so if blocked they will still feed oil to the engine. This is a standard in oil filters only some do not close if the blockage lets off ie once open always open.
I generally use the FSA or AC Delco ones, have for over 15 years, all have a steel ball and spring set up and have never had an issue even in my rotaries

well, fixed my problem, no amount of lifter cleaner would have fixed it.

one of the springs inside a lash adjuster had broken, so after replacing with one i got from the wreckers (a whole $3) the car is now quiet as a whistle like a daily driver should be :) i took some photo's.

i figured out that as soon as you press the centre of them they squash in for a while... anyway problem fixed :) thanks for the help

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64269