Hi all, after I get my tax refund I am seriously considering whacking in a EMS 8860 full ECU into my Tiptronic 99 sports TH magna.

Its not a piggy back, but should be able to function alongside the factory unit by allowing the stock ECU to control the parts it HAS to control, and hopefully we'll be able to have the EMS ECU control most of the fun to change bits :) Also hopefully will loose none of the existing features, TCL, INvecs, trip computer etc etc *fingers crossed*

I have all the wiring diagrams for the Magna and everything looks good, but it still will be a bit of a R&D project for the boys at EMS who I know personally and who wanna use my car to develop a semi kit form of their ECU to suit magnas (still will require some tuning)

Here's the link to the model of ECU i am considering, anyone have interest once I get my beast fired up or any comments??

Its supposed to be higer spec than the Haltech or Greddy systems
http://www.enginemanagementsystem.com/prod01.htm

Anywaz just thought I'd let you boyz know there might be another ECU system for the magna soon :)

hey buddy,

just a few suggestions and thoughts (not that they are always right)


Its not a piggy back, but should be able to function alongside the factory unit by allowing the stock ECU to control the parts it HAS to control, and hopefully we'll be able to have the EMS ECU control most of the fun to change bits :) Also hopefully will loose none of the existing features, TCL, INvecs, trip computer etc etc *fingers crossed*
hmmm.. it has been tried and has failed before. There is a guy in Adelaide with the single turbo (you';ve prolly read bout him) tried to do just that, but failed badly. you cannot just use the mitsu ECU to control the shifting, and the aftermarket to control all else.

you mitsu ecu will want to know everything about the car so it can shift accordlingly. you think well why cant you do this:

engine >to> mitsu ecu >to> tip control (one unit) >to> aftermarket back to engine.. this is what the guy in SA tried, but the mitsu ecu is smarter.

its unfortinate that the autoshifter and "EMS" is combined in the one unit, apposed to the "EMS" and "Autobox" seperate.

im not saying it cant be done, but expect a lot, lot, lot of frustration, cost and downtime (as in no car :()

i wouldnt be surprised if what you are trying to do will take as long as my haltech legacy! 3months and 3 grand + ECU costs



Its supposed to be higer spec than the Haltech or Greddy systems

buy looking over the spec sheets, there is nothing this thing does that the haltech (more direct as a 'replacement' cant do. looking at their fancy naming of things, ie "advanced micro code" > well, its just fancy for saying it also looks for potential problems with your engine the greddy's do this even! "multiple load sensors" lol. yep, the haltech can have up to 8 (for V8 cars) as this is for measuring "2 air-flow meters"

not dissin your hunger to try and bedifferent, cos thats how i got where, but you also have to draw the line on what will work and what wont. (take my wing for example - it dont work on fwd lol )

but which ever way you go, keep us - or me posted, as im intrested in how you will by-pass the autobox woes. if you got any problems or wanna ask bout wiring, email me.. cos trust me, not one existing factory wire in that booya mobile!

BOoya.

Thanks for your thoughts Ben :), yeah I watched your Haltech experience with horror, I don't want to re-create that. I'll let the EMS boys do a bit more research before we start pulling my beast apart. I knew the TCU & ECU combined functionality would cause heaps of grief, but as you know I can't go full ECU replacement as you did because of auto / TCL / etc etc, and would like to support EMS rather than just go and buy a Greddy (although that is the easy option).

I'll see if I can get a better answer out of them on the EMS vs haltech for ya.

Damn auto trans, its nice to have the wanky features of Invecs, TCL etc but a right pain when ya try to out smart it :(

Just trying to get a bit more grunt out of the TH while mitsi work on a real MEAN machine... http://www.autofan.com/newsdetail.asp?id=1053&mn=1&yr=2004

LOL @ waiting for mitsu' to release your "beast" :P - i havnt read the article, but i wouldnt be surprised if they didnt bring the damn thing to aus! :doubt:

yes, in theory, you could just find out the pin outs and re-route those pins to point to the old ecu, however, its not that silly. it will know you've tried to outsmart it!

one thing to perhaps think about, and could be a very good example, is to find out how the ford "Sports tronic" works, and weather it operates on a independant ECU. cos if it does, then id work on getting that to work with your tippy, and getting the EMS to work with ya engine!

so yes, there is hope. and if it dont come from ford, i know the M3 S2 is independant ECU control... perhaps a "hint hint" there... ;)


other wise, im all outta ideas... short of a manual transplant ;) lol.

BOoya.

only 10hp?

holy moly!

even i gained close to 40 extra horses with the E6K when the engine was stock!?

any shades of light on why he gained almost nothing?

looks like ive started a trend with haltech aftermarket ECU's :dancin: i hear there is a ralliart with a Haltech too... i hope i was still the first haltech magna! :badgrin:

Thanks for your comments Dave. I respect your opinion and experience. The only reason I am thinking going the EMS is becuase I know and work with the people who manufacture / design / and program them (australian company), and becuase I have trust in their abilities.

That being said though I don't want to be without my wheels or pay 1000's in unexpected headaches. I don't really expect the EMS ecu to be used to its full extent on my wheels, at this stage my TH sports auto just has RPW K&N POD and exhaust, soon to be RPW race spec extractors, and probably K&N cold air kit and then maybe cams at a later stage. If I can get close to 190kw @ flywheel I would be very happy, anything else is a bonus, and I realise the auto box won't hold together much over 200kw@flywheel :(

I can ofcourse take the EMS or other ECU off when i sell my car and use again (I realise this might be a dream with the level or re-wiring it would take if I went ahead gauging by other peoples experiences.)

So yeah basically I wanted to show people such as yourself Dave the specs on the EMS and guage what you felt, but still keeping an open mind. Haven't decided yet, still more research to be done.

so you are saying that the ECU is not worth it for the oRdanary Hoon ? like me?

so you are saying that the ECU is not worth it for the oRdanary Hoon ? like me?
not a full replacement aftermarket with no mods.

hot up da ride, then add a computer :D

so you are saying that the ECU is not worth it for the oRdanary Hoon ? like me?
Is any hoon ordinary? :lol:

I think he's saying that you need to be careful when selecting the chip. A full aftermarket unit is overkill without mods for it to really show any real benefit.

this is all very interesting... that EMS unit sounds quite powerful (its fast, i wonder what processor its based on.....yeah i know its a motorola, what type though, and how fast!)

by the looks of it... the 8860 should be able to emulate the whole mitsubishi ECU.... and if the guys that are doing it know enough about it they should be able to emulate all the auto box, TCL (it says it can), and all sorts of other ****... its limited to their ability!! mind you, i wouldn't wanna be trying to emulate TCL... hang on, it (the TCL) has its own ECU doesn't it.... i'll have to check the service manual again!... at anyrate, if they want to stuff around a bit... it wouldn't take them long (give or take a week or two) to emulate the whole mitsu ECU!! i know guys (i do elec eng at uni) that have spent little time emulating other cpu's and they've come up trumps... i can't see why the Mitsu one would be any harder, especially since most of the work is done already (the engine control)!!!

this is all very interesting... that EMS unit sounds quite powerful (its fast, i wonder what processor its based on.....yeah i know its a motorola, what type though, and how fast!)

by the looks of it... the 8860 should be able to emulate the whole mitsubishi ECU.... and if the guys that are doing it know enough about it they should be able to emulate all the auto box, TCL (it says it can), and all sorts of other ****... its limited to their ability!! mind you, i wouldn't wanna be trying to emulate TCL... hang on, it (the TCL) has its own ECU doesn't it.... i'll have to check the service manual again!... at anyrate, if they want to stuff around a bit... it wouldn't take them long (give or take a week or two) to emulate the whole mitsu ECU!! i know guys (i do elec eng at uni) that have spent little time emulating other cpu's and they've come up trumps... i can't see why the Mitsu one would be any harder, especially since most of the work is done already (the engine control)!!!

The logic of the auto isn't just a simple little "hello world" program! At a minimum, they'd need a test car and hours upon hours of R&D to even come close to emulating it.

The logic of the auto isn't just a simple little "hello world" program! At a minimum, they'd need a test car and hours upon hours of R&D to even come close to emulating it.hehe, gearbox - "hello world", world "hello gearbox, hows it hanging, anything changed much lately" lol

nah, i know.... its not simple... but after doing automation and control on a few different projects, using Mitsubishi Micro processors... it isn't really all that hard if you know what your doing... it will take a bit of time and testing to get exact... the implementation of it is relatively easy... getting the programming smooth is hard part, shift points, engine control, torque calculation, throttle position etc. but if these guys have had any experience they should be able to do it, hell, if i can make a robot dog (sony style ones) run around a room, kicking a soccerball, whilst getting knocked over, and knowing which other dogs (there are 4 per team) are on my side, with a similar spec processor... i'm sure these guys with all their experience can sort out a gearbox!!

Yeah...I'm sure they'd eventually get it...I just meant it wouldn't be a simple exercise! Car makers have spent years and millions of dollors in R&D trying to perfect electronic autos, so

Yeah...I'm sure they'd eventually get it...I just meant it wouldn't be a simple exercise! Car makers have spent years and millions of dollors in R&D trying to perfect electronic autos, sonot that i'm doubting you, but i'd really like to know how much effort they actually put into those electronic auto's like INVEC etc!! i think they put more in to making it a reliable solution (the actual hardware) than actually making it work... with the relatively small knowledge i have of microprocessor programming, what they've done seems rather simple (just tedious). And after driving them i know they could make it a ****e load better!!!

Note: At the moment i'm applying for my final year project... a fully automated manual gearbox (aka SMG type thing), clutch and all, i'm going through the logistics of it with the year co-ordinator to see if we can get the bits needed to complete it! if i get this (kinda doubtful at the moment, as actuating the clutch will be a *****) i will be in a lot better position to tell you how easy it is to make a gearbox move!!

From what I've read and heard, the actual INVECS II gearbox itself isn't anything too fancy...all of the shift points are controlled by the ECU. Programming a microprocessor when to change gears shouldn't be too bad if it's using just a static map of speed/rpm/load/etc, but creates the usual problems like up/down shifting too early/too late, etc. The whole point of the INVECS II was that is it uses fuzzy logic to determine it's shift points and has the ability to "learn" your driving style. More and more are doing it now, but back then it was something special.

I'm sure the EMS guys would be able to emulate this type of functionality, but I think it may take them a while to perfect it.

OMG!!! What a major project man!!! Your car could potentially be the worlds first Magna/Diamante with a SMG!

From what I've read and heard, the actual INVECS II gearbox itself isn't anything too fancy...all of the shift points are controlled by the ECU. Programming a microprocessor when to change gears shouldn't be too bad if it's using just a static map of speed/rpm/load/etc, but creates the usual problems like up/down shifting too early/too late, etc. The whole point of the INVECS II was that is it uses fuzzy logic to determine it's shift points and has the ability to "learn" your driving style. More and more are doing it now, but back then it was something special.

I'm sure the EMS guys would be able to emulate this type of functionality, but I think it may take them a while to perfect it.

OMG!!! What a major project man!!! Your car could potentially be the worlds first Magna/Diamante with a SMG!yeah, the fuzzy logic is a bit of a trick to implement... but it would use a set of variables to measure how you drive, and then implement the best points change at, it would be a nightmare with slower processors, but these days you can stick in C++ based code and they processors can get through it fast enough to work it out and act appropriately for you! I actually reckon the down changing settings would be the hardest part.. it would be a lot easier to implement if it had a switch for sport or cruise mode and implement the changing points that way! you could also make the changes harder and with less comfort in sport mode!!!

and as for the project... yeah, i'm excited too!!!:dancin: