Hey guys, I was discussing this in the WA section but wasnt able to get a hand for today so was gonna try hook it up myself and run a safe tune till somebody can come round and give me a proper hand tuning it and checking it over or something

today I'm hooking up my sub (Alpine Type S 12", on the back says: SWS-1222D 2Ω+2Ω), with an Alpine V-Power MRP-M650 Amp

I was wondering if somebody can provide me with a safe way to have it tuned till somebody who actually knows what they're doing can fix it up.
If this isnt possible I'll just leave it, but I figured i'd give it a go cos i have nothing better to do, and I assume being a 600w amp powering a 900w? sub, I shouldn't blow it i guess

Full Gain. Listen to the Pooooowwwaaaa.

Eh I dont know Get hunic8 to tune. He did it good on mine. Will need another tune :(

Full Gain. Listen to the Pooooowwwaaaa.

Eh I dont know Get hunic8 to tune. He did it good on mine. Will need another tune :(
did you take it to his work? i guess i could, its only like 5-10 mins away

Just put gains on 1/3rd - 1/2. Depending on your RCA voltage, and how you've wired the sub itself.

Forgot to add,

Also depends if your sub is brand spankers.

okay cheers

nope sub is not brand spankers, bought it second hand the other day

Also depends if your sub is brand spankers.
What has this got to do with tuning a sub??

1/3rd gains.

If you feel you can add more, try 1/2 gains.

A sub distorting is rather quick to pick up, but if you're not willing to try, just leave it on 1/3rd, and dont turn stereo on full blast, usually 3/4 of volume as your max setting.

Then get it tuned by someone who doesnt mind destroying your equipment :P

What has this got to do with tuning a sub??

A lot.

Speakers are mechanical. Your rubber surround comes 'hard' from factory as its new rubber. Even though it feels 'soft', its not.

Takes atleast 10hours of music playing to free up the rubber and soften it. At this stage you can start upping the gains.

If the rubber is hard and you do a full tune, you run the risk of warping the cone, as the rubber is still hard and wont let the cone move as it should. This will then lead to your music being 'coloured' (think thats the right term).

A lot.

Speakers are mechanical. Your rubber surround comes 'hard' from factory as its new rubber. Even though it feels 'soft', its not.

Takes atleast 10hours of music playing to free up the rubber and soften it. At this stage you can start upping the gains.

If the rubber is hard and you do a full tune, you run the risk of warping the cone, as the rubber is still hard and wont let the cone move as it should. This will then lead to your music being 'coloured' (think thats the right term).
:bowrofl: :bowrofl: i just picked myself up off the floor..In all the years i've worked with speakers & sound, thats a first...coloured is a good one
Please give me a source to what you said above lol

for what you are doing ferox i wouldnt worry. if ERS's theory is right you can tune it all the way up to maximum hektik bass and not worry about the cone warping!! :bowrofl:

MicJaiy,

Its a term I heard from a while back, hence I was not sure of how correct it is.

You can do what you like to your speakers. If you dont think that rubber softens, then do what you like.

I am yet to blow a speaker, or have a bad sounding speaker, and my tune's are usually right on the limit.

Here's some maths to back up speakers changing before and after break in period too.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction-page-2

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/faq/#16

http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2006-12.pdf

http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_rodajealtavoces.htm

Speaker coloration -

http://www.huffloudspeaker.com/HuffPro.html

http://www.paradigm.com/en/paradigm/literature/coloration.php

MicJaiy,

Its a term I heard from a while back, hence I was not sure of how correct it is.

You can do what you like to your speakers. If you dont think that rubber softens, then do what you like.

I am yet to blow a speaker, or have a bad sounding speaker, and my tune's are usually right on the limit.

Here's some maths to back up speakers changing before and after break in period too.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction-page-2

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/faq/#16

http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2006-12.pdf

http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_rodajealtavoces.htm
By what I've read, "breaking in" or "burning in" doesn't really do much at all...If anyone can tell the difference between a "burned in" speaker and a speaker that has been used to its limits from factory must have supersonic hearing to be able to tell the difference.

Anyway, I fail to see what relevance this has got to do with tuning ferox's system? :confused:

EDIT : i'm confused to what the last 2 link you have put into your post. I can post random sound stuff aswell to; http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8Mz5o9h8SmI/Learn/learningcenter/car/speakers_tuning.html

Then you must not read much, or tune many systems.

When the rubber surround softens on a speaker, especially a sub, the music is a lot smoother, on a sub (the last 3 I've had, plus a few friends subs) the sub plays a little lower, with more authority, and sounds deeper.

With my rockford 12", after my initial break in period, around 4 weeks later the sub progressively played a bit lower, so I was able to turn the gains down a notch

As for Ferox's sub, if it was brand new I would only put the gains on 1/3rd. Second hand I'de have it on half straight away. Since he is cautious and doesnt want to risk it, i said 1/3rd would be fine just to get it running.

The last 2 links are to do with the term coloration, anywho.....

Then you must not read much, or tune many systems.

When the rubber surround softens on a speaker, especially a sub, the music is a lot smoother, on a sub (the last 3 I've had, plus a few friends subs) the sub plays a little lower, with more authority, and sounds deeper.

With my rockford 12", after my initial break in period, around 4 weeks later the sub progressively played a bit lower, so I was able to turn the gains down a notch

As for Ferox's sub, if it was brand new I would only put the gains on 1/3rd. Second hand I'de have it on half straight away. Since he is cautious and doesnt want to risk it, i said 1/3rd would be fine just to get it running.

The last 2 links are to do with the term coloration, anywho.....
Ever heard of the placebo effect??? :bowrofl:

If you thrash a speaker old/new, and it doesn't blow up it will warp over time, therefore causing rubber surroundings to reshape, even crack. Also the cone itself can warp changing the speakers frequency response and volume slighty. If it is badly damaged it can be heard but most of the time the only way to know for sure is to measure it with an Oscilloscope of some description.

I'm a qualified sound engineer, I do read many audio articles/magazines and have installed and tuned many systems. Please stop trying to justify this theory on breaking speakers in for tuning entry level car audio. I guarantee you people in the industry will laugh at you if you tell them you can hear a difference.

quick question:

how do you use the ports on the side of a sub box?
like how do you attatch the wire to them?

have they got bits where you can unscrew them?
oh wait you've got the ones that an RCA like plug goes into it
you'll need to get these from a audio shop or change the terminal over to a screw one

Ever heard of the placebo effect??? :bowrofl:

If you thrash a speaker old/new, and it doesn't blow up it will warp over time, therefore causing rubber surroundings to reshape, even crack. Also the cone itself can warp changing the speakers frequency response and volume slighty. If it is badly damaged it can be heard but most of the time the only way to know for sure is to measure it with an Oscilloscope of some description.

I'm a qualified sound engineer, I do read many audio articles/magazines and have installed and tuned many systems. Please stop trying to justify this theory on breaking speakers in for tuning entry level car audio. I guarantee you people in the industry will laugh at you if you tell them you can hear a difference.

You asked me to provide you links, and I did.

Coloration refers to what you just explained - when a cone warps it changes how a frequency is reproduced by the speaker...its a term, like how rockford subs sound 'muddy'. Sorry its not technical enough.

With even measured T/S parameters of before and after. Yet now its the placebo effect. Funnily enough, I always noticed a change, before I even knew what it was. If I read up about the placebo effect, then this happens in the wrong order for me lol

Look im wrong, you're right. Speakers dont break in, rubber surrounds dont break in after being played for however many hours, nothing changes, T/S parameters dont change, its the placebo effect, and no one but you knows any better.

From now on, how about you answer the questions in car audio, as im just keeping well away from here, just cant be bothered anymore - for someone as qualified as you, you offered ferox bugger all help - awesome work.

My system as it stands:

Alpine CDE-9872E h/u
JVC fronts and alpine type s 6x9s powered by Pioneer 600w 4 channel amp
V-Power MRP-M650 Amp running a Type S 12" sub

4GA wire coming from battery, splitting through distro block in boot to 2 8GAs
Remote wire from h/u to Pioneer amp then coming from that to the V-power
RCAs coming from h/u then split into 4 and into Pioneer amp
RCA's out of Pioneer and into V-Power

Any more info needed?

I like to break in speakers. Maximum bass has some good tracks for that. :D

Turn all gains to zero. Turn of all EQ / bass boost etc. Balance / Fade all on 0. Subwoofer should be set to 7/15.
*Start by turning your headunit to 75-80% of its max volume i.e 35/40
*If you Pioneer amp has variable HPF, start at 80Hz and play around slightly up and down. If its the fixed 80Hz, turn it on for all channels ( front and rear ).
*Then turn up front gains until fronts distort then turn in back a notch.
*Then do the rears until you have them how you like it, normally they should not overpower the fronts so you shouldn't be looking for max power. Make sure the HPF is on.
*For the sub, again start the Low Pass filter at about 80Hz and see how it sounds with the applied gain. Turn the gain up on the sub until it blends in with front. Again it shouldn't be overpowering the fronts to much. Make sure the sub is not distorting at this stage as well.
*Now you have your gains about right, play around with the EQ. Depending on the deck, make sure you play around with adjust the Q points if your deck has the 3 band para.
*Check it all again to make sure no speaker is under stress and that is a basic tune done.

I like to break in speakers. Maximum bass has some good tracks for that. :D

Turn all gains to zero. Turn of all EQ / bass boost etc. Balance / Fade all on 0. Subwoofer should be set to 7/15.
*Start by turning your headunit to 75-80% of its max volume i.e 35/40
*If you Pioneer amp has variable HPF, start at 80Hz and play around slightly up and down. If its the fixed 80Hz, turn it on for all channels ( front and rear ).
*Then turn up front gains until fronts distort then turn in back a notch.
*Then do the rears until you have them how you like it, normally they should not overpower the fronts so you shouldn't be looking for max power. Make sure the HPF is on.
*For the sub, again start the Low Pass filter at about 80Hz and see how it sounds with the applied gain. Turn the gain up on the sub until it blends in with front. Again it shouldn't be overpowering the fronts to much. Make sure the sub is not distorting at this stage as well.
*Now you have your gains about right, play around with the EQ. Depending on the deck, make sure you play around with adjust the Q points if your deck has the 3 band para.
*Check it all again to make sure no speaker is under stress and that is a basic tune done.
Thanks a lot for that mate, really helpful
i'll give it a go in a bit, at the moment my rears overpower my fronts easily, and the bass overpowers them both at some points too, so will have a look

Ever heard of the placebo effect??? :bowrofl:

If you thrash a speaker old/new, and it doesn't blow up it will warp over time, therefore causing rubber surroundings to reshape, even crack. Also the cone itself can warp changing the speakers frequency response and volume slighty. If it is badly damaged it can be heard but most of the time the only way to know for sure is to measure it with an Oscilloscope of some description.

I'm a qualified sound engineer, I do read many audio articles/magazines and have installed and tuned many systems. Please stop trying to justify this theory on breaking speakers in for tuning entry level car audio. I guarantee you people in the industry will laugh at you if you tell them you can hear a difference.

sound engineers know bugger all about car audio... i have been doing this for a living for a few years now and i have seen countless times where "sound engineers" (and auto electricians) have installed stereo compontents and failed...miserably! i have heard this theory about breaking in and i agree...it happened with the first car i did a custom boot on (my own). a couple of weeks later the bass became deeper and more pronounced. ever since then i have always told the customer to come back in a week or two to have it retuned. since then i have never had a sub voice coil burn on me (except the people that get in the car and turn the bass all the way up then crank it).

sound engineers know bugger all about car audio... i have been doing this for a living for a few years now and i have seen countless times where "sound engineers" (and auto electricians) have installed stereo compontents and failed...miserably! i have heard this theory about breaking in and i agree...it happened with the first car i did a custom boot on (my own). a couple of weeks later the bass became deeper and more pronounced. ever since then i have always told the customer to come back in a week or two to have it retuned. since then i have never had a sub voice coil burn on me (except the people that get in the car and turn the bass all the way up then crank it).

I have seen suppliers claim that the Fs of a woofer can drop as much as 5Hz after proper break in. Both the Boston G5 and Oz Me12.2 which have a lot of excusion sound better after 20-50 hours.

sound engineers know bugger all about car audio... i have been doing this for a living for a few years now and i have seen countless times where "sound engineers" (and auto electricians) have installed stereo compontents and failed...miserably! i have heard this theory about breaking in and i agree...it happened with the first car i did a custom boot on (my own). a couple of weeks later the bass became deeper and more pronounced. ever since then i have always told the customer to come back in a week or two to have it retuned. since then i have never had a sub voice coil burn on me (except the people that get in the car and turn the bass all the way up then crank it).
Were we talking about installing components??...no, we are talking about tuning. Yes I'll admit that I’m not the greatest at installing audio components but that’s why most of the time I'll pay a car audio installer to put them in. That’s their forte, tuning is not one of them. So basically what you are saying is that if I build hospitals for a living, i would be a great doctor.. :bowrofl:

Anyway when so called "car audio experts" stop telling me crap like;

-you will be able to hear frequencies of 32,000hz from those 6x9s.
-you have to demagnetise your CD and CD player to fix your reading issue (sent the unit back to JVC and it was the CD spin motor)
-seriously, that $150 dollar amp is 800watts RMS

And wake up to themselves or get some proper training, I will put no trust into these people. I didn't go to uni for 3 years to be told lies from a person who 'thinks' he knows in's and outs audio.
As I have said before I've installed and tuned many systems (none of them failures in terms of sound quality)

Mr ©harisma's tuning advice is pretty spot on, i'd personally go around the 100hz mark between the speakers and subs but that all depends on personal preference.

MicJaiy - at which frequency does bass become directional?

MicJaiy - at which frequency does bass become directional?
around 80hz

Cool.

Was just curious then as to why you would tune a sub on a LPF of 100Hz, and be able to locate the sub?

Cool.

Was just curious then as to why you would tune a sub on a LPF of 100Hz, and be able to locate the sub?
thats a legit question. ;)

Like i said its a personal preference. In a more controlled situation like a studio or a home theatre, crossovers between the bass driver (subs) and mid range driver (speakers) should be around the 80hz mark. Car audio should be roughly the same but to get that studio like quality with engine/road noise isn't easy.

In my instance, i've tuned my ford to 100hz crossover mark between the speakers and the sub. Main reason is because i can only fit 5x7s into my door and parcel shelf, otherwise if i want bigger speakers i have to fit spacers, etc and really cbfed.

5x7s struggle at an 80hz crossover, they tend to distort at pretty low levels, so I have to make the sub compensate for the 5x7s poor lack of low frequency response. This isn't the ideal situation but I've made do.

Their are a lot of factors involved with tuning. What I wrote is a guide only. There is no set Hz that you will / wont be able to tell where the sub is coming from. Playing around ( if possible ) with the xovers to make sure their is at least cancellation as possible will be best - unless you have phase control then you something else to play with. :D