Hey all,

Havent been in here a long time. I used to own about a year and a half ago a 1999 TH Advance sedan. Sold it with 260,000ks and never had an issue with it, only did routine servicing.

I am a tradie and sold the car and bought a box trailer and hence sold the magna and bought a 1997 Ford Fairmont EL 6cyl. Bought it under the assumption that it would tow better etc. Also wanted a change since I had the magna for nearly 5 years. Its on gas so cheap to run, but it has been the biggest nightmare. Reco head, all new cooling system, water pump, alternator and the list goes on.

Now, I used to love my magna and I still like them alot but I sold it because it was a sedan and also I was under the impression that RWD's tow alot better than FWD's. Ive searched this forum and people seem to be able to tow quite well..

Now, I thought I would ask you people, what would you buy? Looking to spend 12k max, and looking at either TW wagon or verada, BA or BA2 Futura, or VY VZ Acclaim/Berlina, all wagons.

Please offer your unbiased opinion as I would like to make an informed decision.

Thanks!

My car was towed today with a BA Fairlane G220

with 2t on the back it drove awesomely. felt like there was nothing on the back at all.

If they are around $12K.....They are a good car...

It depends on what sort of weight you would be putting in a box trailer but i know of a "Jim's" that has a TJ wagon and he has no issue at all pulling a trailer. Maybe some essentials like a trans cooler and a set of firmer springs in the rear would be a good thing if you chose a Magna, but then again that really goes for any car used for towing.

Just to note too i had a TF 3.0 manual that pulled a VH SLE V8 on a car trailer from Melb back to Geelong and it did it easy! It was easily the best car i had driven for stability when towing. It sat rock solid.

Obviously this isn't an unbiased opinion! But i didn't bag the opposition either! lol

It depends on what sort of weight you would be putting in a box trailer but i know of a "Jim's" that has a TJ wagon and he has no issue at all pulling a trailer. Maybe some essentials like a trans cooler and a set of firmer springs in the rear would be a good thing if you chose a Magna, but then again that really goes for any car used for towing.

Just to note too i had a TF 3.0 manual that pulled a VH SLE V8 on a car trailer from Melb back to Geelong and it did it easy! It was easily the best car i had driven for stability when towing. It sat rock solid.

Obviously this isn't an unbiased opinion! But i didn't bag the opposition either! lol

LOL What a coincidence.. I have a "Jims" franchise and I tow a Jim's trailer. Its one of those one axle square trailers. Would weigh something like 700kgs or more laden I guess?

I can provide feedback on 2 of those.

I have a 200 model tj sports,a nd also a ba wagon for a company car. I know which i would rarther drive. The magna is more comfy, rides better, has better fuel consumption and will still be holding together in many years time. The ba is crap.

LOL What a coincidence.. I have a "Jims" franchise and I tow a Jim's trailer. Its one of those one axle square trailers. Would weigh something like 700kgs or more laden I guess?
Ha! Who would have known!

My guess is 700kg laden would be about right. But this bloke also loads up the wagon area (with seat folded) till its chockers. It looks like its dragging its ass but in all honesty a set of heavy duty springs would fix that. But for him its just a work bus! It is as rough as guts with dints and the crapper knocked out of it.

I towed a mini digger thing to my friends house on a dual axle trailer. All together the guy said the trailer would be 1500kg. It accelerated like there was nothing on the back, however you had to think ahead with braking as the car wouldn't stop very well.. I mean it took longer to stop, maybe twice as long hard on the brake, not like, 3 k's stopping distance at 60.

This is stock brakes and an unbraked trailer (yeah i know, i believe our cars are rated at around 500kg unbraked towing).

Scariest thing was that he hooked the trailer up, and then put the digger onto it, lifting my rear wheels off the ground.

I towed a mini digger thing to my friends house on a dual axle trailer. All together the guy said the trailer would be 1500kg. It accelerated like there was nothing on the back, however you had to think ahead with braking as the car wouldn't stop very well.. I mean it took longer to stop, maybe twice as long hard on the brake, not like, 3 k's stopping distance at 60.

This is stock brakes and an unbraked trailer (yeah i know, i believe our cars are rated at around 500kg unbraked towing).

Scariest thing was that he hooked the trailer up, and then put the digger onto it, lifting my rear wheels off the ground.
you must of had it unbalanced as it should of had your front wheel off the ground:P
Also, gotta be careful when doing stuff like that mate, if that digger went through your rear windscreen, insurance would not cover you one penny.

As far as wagons go out of the three choices id say vz acclaim, alloytec is a decent motor, acclaim has some nice gear and the wagon has heaps of space in the back. Id say it looks the nicest of the 3 aswell.

As far as wagons go out of the three choices id say vz acclaim, alloytec is a decent motor, acclaim has some nice gear and the wagon has heaps of space in the back. Id say it looks the nicest of the 3 aswell.

The Alloytec is a poo motor, and it doesn't have much grunt down low.

I dare say stick with the Mitsubishi or have a look at the BA's.

i concur with nemesis, alloytec is a piece of ****. 6G74 FTW

C63 AMG Wagoon....:confused: OH i c 12 gees to play with

Track down a TJ Sportswagon :) GE Kit ftw.

Just get a TW wagon replace the rear muffler with a high flow Lukey etc and you'll get the same kw's (almost) as the Sports. Unless your towing barges and caravans then stick to the Magna if your are going bigger then the BA Fords are plentiful and cheap at auction houses across the country. You can reasonibly expect to pay from $8500 for a 2004 very good condition and some reasonible km's.

http://www.pickles.com.au/cars/vehicle/CP-03-04-Ford-Falcon-BA-XT-Wagon-5-Seats/itemid-1-103049457/lotid-103112099

I have driven all 3 in wagons Ford are poor in handling with trailers holdens are slightly better but suffer from rear wheel scuff out (even when all tyre pressures are correct and cambur kits fitted ,they never quite got the IRS right)
My current Kl verada is possably the best all round for towing a small trailer,although you may want to either put airbags in your rear suspension or put in upgraded shocks as I went through a pair or rear shocks very quickly coz of the extra weight in rear.
In the end it really comes down to testing them for yourself ....Cheers

those model holdens have crap transmissions......always hunting for the correct gear in the hills,probably the same towing.

Not another commodore vs magna thread the one i read 10 seconds ago pi***d me off

i had to make this decision myself a few weeks back now, lookin for a family wagon tho, got the magna because was the first car my uncle got and wasnt trashed as bad as the commo's i looked at, not commo bashing but IMO they seem to get a little more abused then magnas generaly because they have that apeal, in saying that tho a good commo is still a good car just less of them around :)

I have a 13 year old TS wagon. I windsurf. The other day I was parked next to two mates BA Falcon wagons. All three cars side by side with tailgates up as we were getting rigged up. Both BAs were bleeding RUST stains around where the gas tailgate struts meet the body. My car isn't rusty. Cars that new shouldn't rust like that.

I bought a VZ wagon late last year, whilst I like driving it, a lot smoother ride than the TH, it isn't fun to drive. I find I have to coax the power out of it low down else it just revs out to 4.5k and goes no where. Massive difference in acceleration between the two.

My choice was a TJ sportswagon, but the anchor points for children's car seats ruled that out, so it came down to a BA or VZ wagon, I went the VZ as I couldn't bring myself to own a Ford.

Thanks very much for your replys everyone. Im not out to make this a Ford vs Holden vs Mitsubishi bashing thread. I am merely trying to make the best informed decision I can, because my EL Ford is giving me a headache and i need a long lasting reliable car. I want to buy a house next year and dont want to worry about car troubles. I know that every manufacturer has its issues but some more than others, but who better to ask people that own, or have owned 3 of the most driven cars on australian roads.

I am not biased at all between the 3 cars, of course there are pros and cons of both! One thing I remember about my TH, i put a crap load of bricks in the back to take to the tip and the rear was sagging bad.. I was on the highway about 100km/h, went to go overtake a truck in normal manner and i could feel the front lift in the air! Frightening experience. Probably the shocks gone but it was enough to give me a heart attack. Probably main reason why im asking about the FWD and RWD towing thing. Looking to keep this car for 4 years plus and want to make it the right one.

Cheers

Before you buy a BA Falcon, check out this link to Ford Forums Aust. Just read the first couple of pages to get an idea of some of the problems BA owners have had. Rust, brake shudder & diff clunks seem to be pretty common:
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=689&page=1&pp=25

I am not biased at all between the 3 cars, of course there are pros and cons of both! One thing I remember about my TH, i put a crap load of bricks in the back to take to the tip and the rear was sagging bad.. I was on the highway about 100km/h, went to go overtake a truck in normal manner and i could feel the front lift in the air! Frightening experience. Probably the shocks gone but it was enough to give me a heart attack. Probably main reason why im asking about the FWD and RWD towing thing. Looking to keep this car for 4 years plus and want to make it the right one.

Cheers


How often will you be misusing the wagon in that manner, I doubt any normally sprung family wagon would react any different.

As long as you keep the weight within the manufacturers specs it would be fine.

The Falcons are good because not only being RWD and full of torque, the much maligned leaf spring rear suspension helps it manage decent trailer loads. My pick would be to go for a BF Futura wagon, most XT's are rep-mobiles and a Futura would be less likely to have been thrashed. BF addressed a few build quality issues from BA anyway. Commodores get bad inner wheel scrubbing due to the ageing IRS and Magnas do sag with a decent load on. The amount of Magnas i saw driving into the tip when i drove a rubbish truck with their noses in the air while towing a trailer was hilarious. It'd be ok if you had a Magna to tow once in a while, i wouldn't do it every day though.

Is there a reason you want a wagon and not a 4WD? Can get a decent enough Landcruiser for that kind of money.

*EDIT* Just saw you have a box trailer, I would say Magna or BA then, but a Magna with beefier rear suspension.

Seems you want to have 2 outcomes, here's my 2 cents:

1. Reliability. For this you can't beat the Magna, thay just keep going. Every time I took my BA/BF and territory to the dealers I had a list of problems related to suspension, brakes or electics. When the verada goes in for a service, just the book service every time. I bought the Verada cause I was fed up with the reliability and constant niggles of the Falcodores.

2. Towing. The BA/BF offers easy towing with good torque and stability. Next the Commodore but that V6 engine/transmisson combination can be caught out. Whilst the magna tows well up to it's limit,if you are thinking of heavy loads such as trailers of bricks it would not suit as well, unless you invest in some suspension modification.

So, depending on your priorities, reliability = Magna / towing = Falcon

Seems you want to have 2 outcomes, here's my 2 cents:

1. Reliability. For this you can't beat the Magna, thay just keep going. Every time I took my BA/BF and territory to the dealers I had a list of problems related to suspension, brakes or electics. When the verada goes in for a service, just the book service every time. I bought the Verada cause I was fed up with the reliability and constant niggles of the Falcodores.

2. Towing. The BA/BF offers easy towing with good torque and stability. Next the Commodore but that V6 engine/transmisson combination can be caught out. Whilst the magna tows well up to it's limit,if you are thinking of heavy loads such as trailers of bricks it would not suit as well, unless you invest in some suspension modification.

So, depending on your priorities, reliability = Magna / towing = Falcon

$110 New HD Spings
$50 install
Allow $200 (to be safe) for trans cooler to an auto
for $350 you now have a towing ready car :cool:

A VX to VZ Commodore/Berlina are good cars, pleny of power, have a sporty feel, lots of room in the back seat. An Acclaim or Berlina are the best ones to get.

A VX to VZ Commodore/Berlina are good cars, pleny of power, have a sporty feel, lots of room in the back seat. An Acclaim or Berlina are the best ones to get.

Except they fail at towing, the IRS on them eats through tyres like no end due to the horrific camber it inflicts on them.

my uncle towed a trailer full of furniture on his vx from the coast to here (2.5 hours over the brown) and left the trailer here cause he hated it so much, then came and got it a few weeks later with his sons camry (1988)

Those Commodore wagons have the HUGEST boot space! I was looking at some just before I bought my Magna wagon, the back seats fold down FLAT and it's just incredible! Couldve put my mattress in there :D

Couldve put my mattress in there :D

Great for when you hit up a party and don't have a deso :D

Hey all,

Been looking for a while now. Ive come across two wagons, veradas exactly the same, one is white and one is pearl white. They are quite far from me, so I cant see them, but is there a massive difference in the two? Is pearl alot harder to touch up?

Can't answer that last question but I can help with the 1st one...

My parents had a 2003 Ford BA wagon... they hated it, I hated it. The brakes were horrible, the steering vague and the fuel economy was scary. It spend more time in the service shop under warranty than on the road. Oh and Ford customer service is the worst I have come across.
In the end when we were going skiing, I would tow the boat behind the TH sedan and they would take the gear in the BA wagon. The TH was a MUCH nicer car to drive, tow with and felt much better built even though it was 4 years older. The BA could tow ok, didn't have to work as hard as the TH but just wasn't as nice to drive. They sold it and bought a TD Prado, best car they have ever owned.
They also had a Ford ED wagon... that cost them bucket loads of money.

Summary, I have had my fingers burnt and will never buy another Ford again.

As far as the Holdens go... a few of my friends have them (a couple are wagons). They tow ok, but their higher revving V6 isn't as good as the Fords slow revving engine. Their build quality does nothing to impress me either. Every time I get into one, I get the feeling that the car is much older than it really is and the engines are quite noisy.

So out of the 3 I would go the Magna wagon with some decent suspension in the rear. The Magna is also cheaper to buy :)

Or even better... how about looking at something like a Mitsubishi Challanger, Holden Jackaroo, Nissan Pathfinder??? Get the boot and very good towing ability.

I thank everyone so much for their help. It has me down to two cars now. A 2004 KL Verada EI wagon and a 2005 VZ Lumina wagon. Both white. Mitsi has 110k with timing belt done and VZ has 136ks both have full history and both in great condition. Its now just a matter of choosing between the two! Mitis is in melbourne and the lumina in north QLD. Both bloody far away from me damn it! Both are 11k.

Havent had a chance to drive them, ive driven similar (VZ Exec 06 and a TL ES 04). From memory:

Magna has better gearbox and engine, much sweeter to drive. Im sure the 5 speed in verada is way better again. No way near as much interior space as the commo. Build quality in mitsu is ahead but its not light years but def appears better. Commodore is massive inside and I can probably fit more gear than verada in there. Both seem to ride well and steering seem on par. Only concern is commo has 136k and i drive about 40k or so a year. Verada 110ks.Commo has tow bar, verada hasnt. I dare say :redface: that Commo is better looking, i dont mind the verada at all, but i cant deny that it has a polarising face.

Commo is in QLD where I am from and already registered. Verada is in melb so its gonna be a 2000km trip and change of rego.

Geezus car buying does my head in, someone choose for me!

NOW! lol

The two cars

Commo looks much nicer. Verada has less ks.
The Verada would be nicer to drive.

A tow bar shouldn't cost you more than $700 installed.

V Check report revealed commodore has been at dealer since 09/08? Geezus how can it be there that long??

V Check report revealed commodore has been at dealer since 09/08? Geezus how can it be there that long??

6 Months? Well then, the dealer might be willing to knock the price down a bit as he is probably getting a little desperate to sell it!

I will probably get shot for this, but buy the VZ

couple of reasons (I own a VZ exec wagon and the TH Advance sedan);

I find the VZ a nicer car to drive than my TH
I don't find it as 'large' to drive as it appears (when I first bought it, I kept catching the rear cargo area in the rear view and think to myself 'crap, its a wagon, I forgot')
Fuel economy, very little between the two for me 12.xl /100 in the Magna, 13.x in the VZ (I tend to be a little heavy footed)
whilst I haven't had the pleasure of driving a Verada model, I find the VZ very comfortable to spend long distance driving, whilst the Magna can be a little sapping.

on the down side;
I hate the cruise control, with a passion, seems to spend all its time revving and decelerating to stay at set speed
a little 'bargey' at times
A pillar vision just plain sucks
whoever fitted my rear view mirror must have been short, it sits right where I look through corners etc