Hey guys,

Just been looking at Adelaide Jap Imports website today and they have a set of 4 spot brake Calipers with rotors for $650. now the question i have is would this really an upgrade as i can't find any specs on the 3000gt brake system and I was under the impression that they had Brembos? can someone confirm?

Not totally positive but I think the early 3000gt use a sumitomo 4 spot alloy caliper with a simular pad size as r32gtr skyline. What you might be looking at are EVO calipers if they are Brembos. Either would be a nice upgrade for the Magna.

Cheers Dave.

Early GTO's (Pretty sure) only use a 296mm rotor and as dave said a 4 pot front caliper.
i would say this would bolt onto 2nd gens easier then it would 3rd gens.
oh, link to site?

I think it's this (http://www.adelaidejap.com.au/adeljap/) one.

From what i could find on the subject....

Front Brakes and Disks

FWD version only had 2-pot calipers
AWD version came with 4-pot calipers, but disks varied between models (up to 93) versus (from 94 onwards)

up to 93: (M-R66Z)
Disc diameter: 249mm
Thickness: 30mm
ventilated disk

from 94 onwards: (M-R76Z)
Disc dia: 271
Thickness: 30mm
ventilated disk

Brake lines are straight screw in (not Banjo fittings)

I just read on that site that they have a 6G74 with 194kw and 323Nm. I wants.

I just read on that site that they have a 6G74 with 194kw and 323Nm. I wants.

Just get your ecu flashed, you'd be close to those kw's and get more nm's than that.

Just get your ecu flashed, you'd be close to those kw's and get more nm's than that.

really? (sorry for off topic but is that what figures you guys are seeing with a flash??)

mate, if it was me i wouldnt muck around..just grab a set of brembo's off an evo . straight bolt up to front with minor mod on rear...

proven to be an awesome setup (look how well cummins ralliart performs with them) and painless fitment......

really? (sorry for off topic but is that what figures you guys are seeing with a flash??)

mate, if it was me i wouldnt muck around..just grab a set of brembo's off an evo . straight bolt up to front with minor mod on rear...

proven to be an awesome setup (look how well cummins ralliart performs with them) and painless fitment......

yeah, at the flywheel.............sorry, back on topic.

yeah, at the flywheel.............sorry, back on topic.

Pm sent, cheers

Just get your ecu flashed, you'd be close to those kw's and get more nm's than that.
You trippin buddy?
ECU flash on a SOHC 74' netting 195ish kw?
Please, you do that then show me.
otherwise, It's a totally different motor (Actually, thats MY MOTOR)
Only fit's in 2nd gens, runs a different ignition setup and yeah, GL getting even fractionally CLOSE to that figure :bowrofl:

']You trippin buddy?
ECU flash on a SOHC 74' netting 195ish kw?
Please, you do that then show me.
otherwise, It's a totally different motor (Actually, thats MY MOTOR)
Only fit's in 2nd gens, runs a different ignition setup and yeah, GL getting even fractionally CLOSE to that figure :bowrofl:
At the flywheel, you'd be surprised. Sports/VR-X makes 163 at the fly with mitsis extreme conservative "cardigan" tune. Tuned for 98, some awds are getting nearly 30kws gain at the wheels, what would that be at the fly? I'll be getting mine done at SKR soon hopefully, will post up dyno graph.

At the flywheel, you'd be surprised. Sports/VR-X makes 163 at the fly with mitsis extreme conservative "cardigan" tune. Tuned for 98, some awds are getting nearly 30kws gain at the wheels, what would that be at the fly? I'll be getting mine done at SKR soon hopefully, will post up dyno graph.

Ha ha, Flaty to the rescue,thats how I arrived at my theory too.
Tripping? no Tuffy too old for that now......may be a flash-back! :badgrin:

Just get your ecu flashed, you'd be close to those kw's and get more nm's than that.

Yep id agree with you (for a change lol ) A 98octane reflash tune on a stock sports/VRX will come out at around the 180-185Kw@flywheel and around the 340-350nm@flywheel.

As a guide my TH sports when bog stock made 112Kw's@wheels after a rear muffler change and the "98 GTP" tune in it, it made 137Kw's@wheels. Remebering TH 3.5 was 147Kw@flywheel that 25Kw increase at wheels wouldve taken the engine output at flywheel to near on 180kws or thereabouts.

Yep id agree with you (for a change lol ) A 98octane reflash tune on a stock sports/VRX will come out at around the 180-185Kw@flywheel and around the 340-350nm@flywheel.

Are you able to do such a thing? :shock:

I wanna see proof:P Besides the DOHC will do it on standard unleaded :) UNTUNED. :D

maybe thats because it is DOHC with a knock sensor to advance and retard timing?

']I wanna see proof:P Besides the DOHC will do it on standard unleaded :) UNTUNED. :D

Yes, but you need to read his comment in context to the other post he was replying to, zero's point is that its more effective to get an ECU flash than to go and buy a DOHC, and still achieve similar performance results to the standard DOHC.

Do you still wish to feel the palm of his hands, Thomas? :D

Yes, but you need to read his comment in context to the other post he was replying to, zero's point is that its more effective to get an ECU flash than to go and buy a DOHC, and still achieve similar performance results to the standard DOHC.

Do you still wish to feel the palm of his hands, Thomas? :D
Well, Dah, Not like you can just drop one into a 3rd gen like THAT *clicks fingers* considering it's the other way around and all.

tune all you want your redline is still 5500:P
Ah I'm good.....
I still reckon with an aftermarket ECU, DOHC heads and water housing, pajero timing belt and tensioner setup you'll make it work using the standard intake manifold/TB/cable/air intake.
Just need someone to prove me wrong/right!

At the flywheel, you'd be surprised. Sports/VR-X makes 163 at the fly with mitsis extreme conservative "cardigan" tune.

Where have you gotten this theory from?

Other people on here that had had their cars tuned with aftermarket ecu's have commented on how aggressive the tune on these engines is from factory.

At the flywheel, you'd be surprised. Sports/VR-X makes 163 at the fly with mitsis extreme conservative "cardigan" tune. Tuned for 98, some awds are getting nearly 30kws gain at the wheels, what would that be at the fly? I'll be getting mine done at SKR soon hopefully, will post up dyno graph.
I had extractors, exhaust, CAI and a Haltech Interceptor fitted to my Ralliart, tuned for 98 ron, and it went from 183hpatw to 195hpatw. Awesome gains. :roll:

I had extractors, exhaust, CAI and a Haltech Interceptor fitted to my Ralliart, tuned for 98 ron, and it went from 183hpatw to 195hpatw. Awesome gains. :roll:
That is my point, I obviously don't know as much as JVRX BUT gathering from what I "read" on "AMC" a simple tune will get you 3-4 maybe 5kw's
Just 30kw from a 3.5L? Man thats 6L commodore territory for gains from tune

Where have you gotten this theory from?

Other people on here that had had their cars tuned with aftermarket ecu's have commented on how aggressive the tune on these engines is from factory.

Its only a couple posts up the page mate :nuts:


As a guide my TH sports when bog stock made 112Kw's@wheels after a rear muffler change and the "98 GTP" tune in it, it made 137Kw's@wheels. Remebering TH 3.5 was 147Kw@flywheel that 25Kw increase at wheels wouldve taken the engine output at flywheel to near on 180kws or thereabouts.

']Well, Dah, Not like you can just drop one into a 3rd gen like THAT *clicks fingers* considering it's the other way around and all.

tune all you want your redline is still 5500:P
Ah I'm good.....
I still reckon with an aftermarket ECU, DOHC heads and water housing, pajero timing belt and tensioner setup you'll make it work using the standard intake manifold/TB/cable/air intake.
Just need someone to prove me wrong/right!

Its not a case of who's right or wrong... Did someone criticize your DOHC? So why did you turn it into a "my motor vs your motor" argument, when the original statement, made by someone who has already achieved results, was about looking at a "simpler" alternative? Chill out.

Its not a case of who's right or wrong... Did someone criticize your DOHC? So why did you turn it into a "my motor vs your motor" argument, when the original statement, made by someone who has already achieved results, was about looking at a "simpler" alternative? Chill out.
post 6 and 7 numbnuts.

I had extractors, exhaust, CAI and a Haltech Interceptor fitted to my Ralliart, tuned for 98 ron, and it went from 183hpatw to 195hpatw. Awesome gains. :roll:

And that is very different from what he said, he talked about a sports/vrx not a ralliart mate

And that is very different from what he said, he talked about a sports/vrx not a ralliart mate
So if a ralliart, which has more potential to gain more from mods, can only gain 12hp, how can a standard 3.5L gain 3 times more? *from less modifications*

and if you could gain 30kw's from a "tune" why has this not been seen before?

']So if a ralliart, which has more potential to gain more from mods, can only gain 12hp, how can a standard 3.5L gain 3 times more?

I was under the impression that a Ralliart would have a more aggressive tune from factory buddy, so therefore less could be got out of it with a tune than a more conservative tune from factory on a sports etc

If it is possible to get a 30+ KW gain from a retune alone on a stock engine, how has noone else on these forums seen anywhere near those gains before?

I was under the impression that a Ralliart would have a more aggressive tune from factory buddy, so therefore less could be got out of it with a tune than a more conservative tune from factory on a sports etc
Also has more agressive cams/betters heads (or so I've read please correct me on that IF it was wrong)
So your going from better heads/better cams/better tune/pacemakers + CAI, full exhaust, Piggyback ECU = 12HP

or
Standard 3.5L + muffler + tune = 195kw :nuts:
sorry but sounds a bit whacko to me.

']Also has more agressive cams/betters heads (or so I've read please correct me on that IF it was wrong)
So your going from better heads/better cams/better tune/pacemakers + CAI, full exhaust, Piggyback ECU = 12HP

or
Standard 3.5L + muffler + tune = 195kw :nuts:
sorry but sounds a bit whacko to me.

All i did was quote the member on here who i would think knows more than anyone else about these engines, if hes wrong then so be it, but all i have read from Jason seems to be very upfront and honest i dont see a reason for him to lie about it. His last engine is the most powerful NA magna of all time yes? So he obviously knows what hes on about buddy

']post 6 and 7 numbnuts.

Oh yeah...sorry about that I didn't read between the lines, like you did....:nuts:.. .my apologies numb nuts...:D

after thinking about it i dont see how the steve knight tune can gain anymore than a piggyback ecu would (unichip, greddy emanage, haltech interceptor)...

if those piggyback ecu's are only gaining 5-10kws i reckon it would have to be near impossible for a flash tune to gain 30kws..

i dunno whats going on with the awd's gaining all that power ....but something isnt adding up

His last engine is the most powerful NA magna of all time yes?

What was his last engine putting out at the wheels?

What was his last engine putting out at the wheels?

More than any other NA magna i have ever heard of, from memory wasnt it well into the 200's?

after thinking about it i dont see how the steve knight tune can gain anymore than a piggyback ecu would (unichip, greddy emanage, haltech interceptor)...

if those piggyback ecu's are only gaining 5-10kws i reckon it would have to be near impossible for a flash tune to gain 30kws..

i dunno whats going on with the awd's gaining all that power ....but something isnt adding up
Exactly. show me how altering fuel/timing/spark on an unlocked ECU differ from an aftermarket one
As much as I respect Jasons VRX what he is saying makes no sense at all and I dont believe it ONE BIT. 30kw's from a tune please......
If everyone here stopped sucking everyone else's E-balls everytime and thought about it for a second, it just doesnt make sense unless there is MAJOR headwork, cams, valve springs etc etc
not possible, at all, period
infinity + 1
:D

']Exactly. show me how altering fuel/timing/spark on an unlocked ECU differ from an aftermarket one
As much as I respect Jasons VRX what he is saying makes no sense at all and I dont believe it ONE BIT. 30kw's from a tune please......
If everyone here stopped sucking everyone else's E-balls everytime and thought about it for a second, it just doesnt make sense unless there is MAJOR headwork, cams, valve springs etc etc
not possible, at all, period
infinity + 1
:D

Mate go back and re read what he said, it was stock putting out 112, then after adding a muffler assuming highflow (i would think prob a high flow cat too as Steve Knight suggests this) it went to 137. So thats a 25kw increase, you could maybe add in the fact that dynos never read the same, it could have been diff temps, i dont think its totally impossible to see it being true. Dont people see from memory 7-8kw from fitting a highflow muffler to an exec or the like as the standard is SO restricitve, so it would only mean the tune added about 15kw

how about we get back on topic guys?
this is about brakes not engines

i reckon upgrading to 380 brakes is a good start :)

']Exactly. show me how altering fuel/timing/spark on an unlocked ECU differ from an aftermarket one
As much as I respect Jasons VRX what he is saying makes no sense at all and I dont believe it ONE BIT. 30kw's from a tune please......
If everyone here stopped sucking everyone else's E-balls everytime and thought about it for a second, it just doesnt make sense unless there is MAJOR headwork, cams, valve springs etc etc
not possible, at all, period
infinity + 1
:D

Grasshopper, you're not ready yet!

Mate go back and re read what he said, it was stock putting out 112, then after adding a muffler assuming highflow (i would think prob a high flow cat too as Steve Knight suggests this) it went to 137. So thats a 25kw increase, you could maybe add in the fact that dynos never read the same, it could have been diff temps, i dont think its totally impossible to see it being true. Dont people see from memory 7-8kw from fitting a highflow muffler to an exec or the like as the standard is SO restricitve, so it would only mean the tune added about 15kw
Wrong. Its claimed from factory the muffler add's 9kw more. dyno proven I'm sure it's only been a kw or 3
Why do I have to re-read what he said, I know what he said, and a muffler, cat, high flow, low flow, whatever, it wont net 25kw's ATW's

Actually, go prove me wrong, go get a tune, and get me a dyno printout.

how about we get back on topic guys?
this is about brakes not engines

i reckon upgrading to 380 brakes is a good start :)

Back on topic, yep you need some good brakes, the 380 brakes are good value for money for the stopping power. And you need good brakes to be able to stop your simply re tuned ECU 3rd Gen 3.5L producing 180+kw of power....:bowrofl:

']Wrong. Its claimed from factory the muffler add's 9kw more. dyno proven I'm sure it's only been a kw or 3
Why do I have to re-read what he said, I know what he said, and a muffler, cat, high flow, low flow, whatever, it wont net 25kw's ATW's

Actually, go prove me wrong, go get a tune, and get me a dyno printout.

Undo that not in ur knickers matey, all i did was state what JasonsVRX said, tried to explain it from my point of view. If im wrong for doing that then so be it, as its obviously totally impossible according to you.

Back on topic

Oh gee what do we have here...... AS STATED in my post earlier, my TH sports STOCK AS A ROCK made 112kws@wheels. After fitting a Straight thru (loud) magnaflow rear muffler and then having the ECU tuned to suit 98octane fuel, alot more timing added (alot more agressive than stock TH3.5) and the mixtures leaned out from 10.1 AFR's to 12.9 AFR's the new reading was 137Kws@wheels.

What you guys dont realise is that a piggyback can only modify a couple of "parameter" (by fooling the stock ecu i might add) WITH the MMAL software Steve is able to modify ALL parameters of the stock ECU (so much like a full standalone unit) Hell you want your revlimit increased, steve can do it, you want your MAF air read over ridden, steve can do that, you want ya cold start idle/hot idle changed steve can do that. These are just some of the things that can be done to the stock ECU that a piggyback cant do.

You guys believe what you will but a piggyback doesnt get the full results on a magna like the reflash on a stock ecu does.

Ive done many a magna NA engine builds and i can tell you, you wont see a compromising "piggyback" ecu used on my builds as they are limited in what they parameters they can "modify"

Oh and as for the Ralliart magnas there camshaft specs were so hit and miss (the lobes simply didnt clean up when ground so the extra lift wasnt acheived on a lot of them), so they got put in with none to little additional lift over stock Sports/VRX cams...... most of there power increase came from better more aggressive tune...

If ya doubt me then ask DAVE TJ he will add more to the above

Oh and i was quoting my cars 25Kw@wheel increase was by replacing the ultra restrictive exec rear muffler (which the TH sports used) and ultra conservative TH 3.5L tune.

And another thing each and every car is different, ive seen 2 stock cars of same "spec" come out different after a tune with one having more power than the other.... its called variation and unfortunately mass production cause alot of it.

An oldie but a goodie.... you can lead a horse to water but you cant make em drink lol
Oh gee what do we have here...... AS STATED in my post earlier, my TH sports STOCK AS A ROCK made 112kws@wheels. After fitting a Straight thru (loud) magnaflow rear muffler and then having the ECU tuned to suit 98octane fuel, alot more timing added (alot more agressive than stock TH3.5) and the mixtures leaned out from 10.1 AFR's to 12.9 AFR's the new reading was 137Kws@wheels.

What you guys dont realise is that a piggyback can only modify a couple of "parameter" (by fooling the stock ecu i might add) WITH the MMAL software Steve is able to modify ALL parameters of the stock ECU (so much like a full standalone unit) Hell you want your revlimit increased, steve can do it, you want your MAF air read over ridden, steve can do that, you want ya cold start idle/hot idle changed steve can do that. These are just some of the things that can be done to the stock ECU that a piggyback cant do.

You guys believe what you will but a piggyback doesnt get the full results on a magna like the reflash on a stock ecu does.

Ive done many a magna NA engine builds and i can tell you, you wont see a compromising "piggyback" ecu used on my builds as they are limited in what they parameters they can "modify"

Didn't know that about the piggyback ECU's. since that's the case does anyone else with a fully standalone ECU on a 3rd gen have any "readouts" with just a muffler.

Still hard to believe in the time I've been on here I've only heard of 1 person doing this.

']Didn't know that about the piggyback ECU's. since that's the case does anyone else with a fully standalone ECU on a 3rd gen have any "readouts" with just a muffler.

Still hard to believe in the time I've been on here I've only heard of 1 person doing this.

it's true stuff Tuffy,Levis' has had the 'treatment' too.

']Also has more agressive cams/betters heads (or so I've read please correct me on that IF it was wrong)
So your going from better heads/better cams/better tune/pacemakers + CAI, full exhaust, Piggyback ECU = 12HP

or
Standard 3.5L + muffler + tune = 195kw :nuts:
sorry but sounds a bit whacko to me.

Where did you get that from? I stated maybe 180-185kws@flywheel.

Did you know that the "ralliart" magna dealer ride track cars (driven by ed ordinsky) had stock 3.5L motors in them with just a hand picked set of "ralliart" cams, rear muffler and a retune.....they made more at the wheels that the "official" ralliarts did lol. Rod campbell will back me up on that fact! Same with rob chadwicks old TH/TJ "GTP" race magna which had a stock engine other than exhaust and tune.... there was a write up in zoom magazine years ago about that car.

']Didn't know that about the piggyback ECU's. since that's the case does anyone else with a fully standalone ECU on a 3rd gen have any "readouts" with just a muffler.

Still hard to believe in the time I've been on here I've only heard of 1 person doing this.

Tuffy, not ever magna will pick up 30Kws, hell some may pick up half that! It all depends on lots of things like age of engine, mods, and other production variences.
Hell i wouldnt have believed that the NZ air inlet would lose 7kw's on my current engine until i saw it with my own eyes but it did on steves dyno during the back to back test with the stock "aussie" intake, same with the K&N V's Stock paper filter..... Other cars might not see these differences, that is the joys of dyno testing on YOUR OWN CAR as you get to see what does and doesnt work.

After a lot of research , I found the simplest no hassle upgrade is:
Upgrade using Ralliart Magna (RM) brake specs all round ie rotors, calipers.

I went for the DBA upgrade catalogue and used the RM as my upgrade. Therefore , my compatible TJ setup will accept dba 4000 series wiper slot rotors to suit RM. Then I bought the standard 2 pot RM calipers from a mitsu dealer and voila. Total brake upgrade without any mods. oh and add braided brake lines to minimise fading even more.

costs : dba front rotors from repco $230 each. RM calipers from Portside $205 each. Bendix everyday Brake pads $50 set (from motortraders. May be cheaper elsewhere).

That's a total of $970 for my front upgrade. RPW online has 2 pot Magna brake kits advertised for about $1,000 EACH. So I saved HEAPS. Plus I get to paint the calipers any colour I want, I'm thinking satin black. Good Luck.
:nuts: You could of sourced a set of Brembos for that amount of coin.

To add to the side debate, the total power figure thrown around doesn't mean a real lot anyway. On a QMD dyno day a couple years back, my car put out about 10hpatw more than Simon's (muzza_oz) manual Verada, yet on the street there wasn't a lot of difference in terms of acelleration. To me, it all comes down to how the car feels to you. I know when I had my Ralliart tuned, there wasn't a huge increase in top end power, but the midrange was good, the sound was good and the fuel economy improved too. Was it worth the $1700 I paid at the time? No way. But a reflash for around $400 that'll do the same thing seems well worth it IMO.

Also Tuffy, you have to remember, even if your engine doesn't produce that much more peak power, your midrange will be a lot meatier due to the dual chamshafts, and you'll have more torque too.

Oh gee what do we have here...... AS STATED in my post earlier, my TH sports STOCK AS A ROCK made 112kws@wheels. After fitting a Straight thru (loud) magnaflow rear muffler and then having the ECU tuned to suit 98octane fuel, alot more timing added (alot more agressive than stock TH3.5) and the mixtures leaned out from 10.1 AFR's to 12.9 AFR's the new reading was 137Kws@wheels.

What you guys dont realise is that a piggyback can only modify a couple of "parameter" (by fooling the stock ecu i might add) WITH the MMAL software Steve is able to modify ALL parameters of the stock ECU (so much like a full standalone unit) Hell you want your revlimit increased, steve can do it, you want your MAF air read over ridden, steve can do that, you want ya cold start idle/hot idle changed steve can do that. These are just some of the things that can be done to the stock ECU that a piggyback cant do.

You guys believe what you will but a piggyback doesnt get the full results on a magna like the reflash on a stock ecu does.

Ive done many a magna NA engine builds and i can tell you, you wont see a compromising "piggyback" ecu used on my builds as they are limited in what they parameters they can "modify"

TUFFTR buddy its called humble pie mate, sit back and scoff one down ok. Jason how well in your opinion would Steve Knight be able to flash a ecu if i send him one with a dyno readout with the relevent info he would require?

:nuts: You could of sourced a set of Brembos for that amount of coin.


totally agree... if your patient you can pick up front AND rear brembo calipers (sometimes with discs included) for $1000 .... not hard to get used evo discs anyway as ppl are always upgrading these on there evo's.. infact there is a full set of discs on ebay right now for about $300 i think of a brand new evo that was stripped to be race prep'd

**if $400 is gaining ppl 30kws then i reckon its the best bang for buck mod to a magna to date**

TUFFTR buddy its called humble pie mate, sit back and scoff one down ok. Jason how well in your opinion would Steve Knight be able to flash a ecu if i send him one with a dyno readout with the relevent info he would require?

PM me so this thread doesnt get off track again.

Also i went and saw steve this morning before he headed off to the clipsal 500 and he has been having a looksy these forums :)

totally agree... if your patient you can pick up front AND rear brembo calipers (sometimes with discs included) for $1000 .... not hard to get used evo discs anyway as ppl are always upgrading these on there evo's.. infact there is a full set of discs on ebay right now for about $300 i think of a brand new evo that was stripped to be race prep'd

**if $400 is gaining ppl 30kws then i reckon its the best bang for buck mod to a magna to date**

I spoke to Steve about the "uproar" in this thread regarding big power increases, he agreed with what i have said about production variables....EACH individual car will be different in its outcomes, he said it all depends on which way the variables for that particular car are as to how much can be gained. Some examples that steve put forward were: some cars can take more timing advance than others, some can handle leaner mixtures than others and some are just heaps of **** that no amount of tuning will help lol

He said he has worked on/tuned 2 mechanically identical EVO's with same mods but one made a fair amount more power (after tuning) than the other..... production variables

He said at the end of the day some will people be happy and some will be disappointed at there peak power gains BUT he did say that at the end of the day "PEAK" power is just that.... a bragging right. The real results is the underlining low/midrange gains, fuel economy gains and overall drivability gains. Make sense hey.

See it everyday, engines are made to pass between a range of values they're not identical. Are to close the gap between components costs alot more money. Like stated thats mass production.

TUFFTR buddy its called humble pie mate, sit back and scoff one down ok. Jason how well in your opinion would Steve Knight be able to flash a ecu if i send him one with a dyno readout with the relevent info he would require?
Humble pie my ass, lets see you get your ecu tuned and gain 25kw's.
but whatever, my motor is better.

']Humble pie my ass, lets see you get your ecu tuned and gain 25kw's.
but whatever, my motor is better.
Ah, the root of the problem. Got a little green devil on our shoulder do we? :D

']Humble pie my ass, lets see you get your ecu tuned and gain 25kw's.
but whatever, my motor is better.

I dont have to buddy its been done, even though u say its impossible. And i dont care about your "motor".

I spoke to Steve about the "uproar" in this thread regarding big power increases, he agreed with what i have said about production variables....EACH individual car will be different in its outcomes, he said it all depends on which way the variables for that particular car are as to how much can be gained. Some examples that steve put forward were: some cars can take more timing advance than others, some can handle leaner mixtures than others and some are just heaps of **** that no amount of tuning will help lol

He said he has worked on/tuned 2 mechanically identical EVO's with same mods but one made a fair amount more power (after tuning) than the other..... production variables

He said at the end of the day some will people be happy and some will be disappointed at there peak power gains BUT he did say that at the end of the day "PEAK" power is just that.... a bragging right. The real results is the underlining low/midrange gains, fuel economy gains and overall drivability gains. Make sense hey.

:stoopid: and encourage all to take note of my signature - lighten up!

Bang-for buck I'm greatly impressed with the twin-pot evo4 brakes (aka ralliart/awd brakes).

With Ferodo DS2500 pads I have found no hint of fade even after hard 10 laps of Wakefield Park...and that's with semi-slicks and a pretty serious suspension setup - i.e pulling up much harder than a stock magna on street tyres ever would. Also great pedal feel and ease of modulation.

No doubt a set of Brembos or similar off an evo would feel better, but considering how good the evo4 setup is for the cost I could never justify Brembos personally.

If you can get 380 brakes cheap, they are also a good thing..quite similar to the evo4 brakes, but with a slightly thicker rotor and slightly larger pad surface area.