I've got a 2001 TJ 3.5 auto and while driving along the road the car suddenly lost all of its gears. No noises, no leaks, just stopped having any forward power and coasted to a halt with the engine still running fine. The gearbox was replaced with a reconditioned one less than 2 years ago. The original let go with lots of noises and commotion, but this time it just went to sleep without a whimper.
Could this be an electronic problem (ie the unit that controls the gearbox) or am I looking at another dead box ?

Gearbox wasnt flaring prior to this?

No noises, perfect red trans fluid? no leaks?

You still have a gearbox attached? :ninja:

I'de say its more an electronic issue rather than mechanical if you have had no problems with this box.

Gearbox wasnt flaring prior to this?

No noises, perfect red trans fluid? no leaks?

You still have a gearbox attached? :ninja:

I'de say its more an electronic issue rather than mechanical if you have had no problems with this box.

haha classic.

No noises, no flaring (assume that means slipping gears or changing gears erratically), no leaks I can see on the ground other than the odd oil spot. Will need to look at the transmission oil in daylight, by torchlight it looks more brownish than red. Can start the car in both Park and Neutral, but not the other gears. Gearshift cable still attached and moves the lever around on the top of the transmission (the one next to the oil level tube).

Did ya look down the back of the lounge?

Thats where I look for things if I lose em. :hmm:

You may have even broken a cv joint or diff.

The same thing happens, the car just rolls to a halt and goes nowhere.

Jack her up, front wheels of the ground, put her in gear and see if the cv shafts are turning where they come out of the trannie.

Be careful

If thats yur prob its a lot cheaper than the trannie replacement.

No noises, no flaring (assume that means slipping gears or changing gears erratically), no leaks I can see on the ground other than the odd oil spot. Will need to look at the transmission oil in daylight, by torchlight it looks more brownish than red. Can start the car in both Park and Neutral, but not the other gears. Gearshift cable still attached and moves the lever around on the top of the transmission (the one next to the oil level tube).


AFAIK, in normal cases you cannot start an auto magna in any gear apart from P and N.

AFAIK, in normal cases you cannot start an auto magna in any gear apart from P and N.
this is very true,... ive never been succesful trying to start it in any over gear:hmm:

Is the neutral light flashing? If so is it quick or slow?

thanks for the replies, the note about starting in only park & neutral was a diagnostic to rule out a Neutral start switch problem. When that goes it will start in any gear apparently.
No, the neutral light doesn't flash (on the dash or by the gear stick)

thanks for the replies, the note about starting in only park & neutral was a diagnostic to rule out a Neutral start switch problem. When that goes it will start in any gear apparently.
No, the neutral light doesn't flash (on the dash or by the gear stick)

Interesting :) well sorry i can't help. Good luck though.

Mate,

Very sorry to hear of your trouble. I think you have suffered a trans problem that I first encountered 10 days after buying a KJ with only 57K on the clock. In the last month, the same problem has affected dad's TJ Exec at about 140K.

I have posted before - could try search for term "Wave Spring". Short version: Wave spring is a component in the Low-Reverse Clutch Pack - its approx 15cm diameter, thin spring (bit like rings) but its wavy and spirals around on itself for about 3 "layers". My Auto Trans place told me that older Magna's used a single-layer thicker wave-spring.

Wave spring breaks a short length off. This is flushed through with trans fluid, it should get caught by internal oil filter but fault in filter, or the force of the flow of oil pushes the piece into transmission oil pump. There it jams between the stator and rotor of the planetary oil-pump and shatters the rotor - pieces of this get flushed through the box.

I paid a very competent independent Auto Trans bloke in Tamworth $2200- to remove box, complete dissassemble, clean, replace parts as needed, and NOT use that type of wave spring. Dad's car, he took box out and took box to Dubbo - cost him about $900- and then we had to put the box back in (I only avail to help the "box in" phase).

If you get a trans from a wreck, you risk the "3-layer-breaky" wave spring being part of it. If you get your box done-up, and make sure they don't fit that part, you should have a fairly reliable box.

I had NEVER heard of this problem, but 2 out of 2 of our TJ-series cars have had the same problem with exactly your symptoms - the other is my TJ Sports, which is a manual (but has crap synchro's - not my doing).

Search that term "Wave Spring" - seek auto trans place who is aware of the issue (Tamworth guys guessed correct from the start. Dubbo almost told us we were idiots for suggesting it, but we were proved correct. We have kept the old parts from both as memento's. I have a $2200- pack of minties hanging from my rear-view mirror as souvenirs of my rebuild - owners wife makes little packs with their business card attached).

elwyn, a tj auto box doesnt have an oil filter iirc and that must be why this broken part gets flushed through the rest of the box. The 2nd gen auto boxes did however have a filter. . .

elwyn, a tj auto box doesnt have an oil filter iirc and that must be why this broken part gets flushed through the rest of the box. The 2nd gen auto boxes did however have a filter. . .

elwyn is correct. 3rd gen has an internal Strainer (Mesh type unit) I believe a fault in the strainer (around the seal?) allows these chunks to bypass and reek havoc. My TJ auto died a couple of months ago from this problem.

As above, the TE and F box have a cartridge filter, best thing ever that mits did.

The TH onwards does not, has the casting for it but no filter DOH

Mate, if was electrical the trans will limp into 3rd hear and give you limited drive, your trans has suffered that good old wave spring failuer most likely

Sorry but is going to be exxy

i had the same issue in my TJ 3.5lt

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64963

no noise just no more gears. ended up having to replaced the box....

I'm thinking it's mechanical rather than an electronic fault. Having had the original box repaired (that repair lasted 6 months) and then replaced with a reconditioned box (that lasted just shy of 2 years), I'm thinking it's not worth spending 000's to get it going again so something else can go wrong. Better to spend the $3,500 the last box cost me to have put in on a new car. Perhaps I'll leave the car parked badly round a blind corner and hope some kind soul runs into it. At least the insurance would be worth something.
Anybody looking for a TJ with a shot gearbox, all else works (touch wood).

Was there any kind of warranty on the $3500- reco box? How about shopping around for prices of repair?

Or are you just over it (that's understandable)and want it gone?

If you don't urgently need this car - I'd advise to sit on it for a wee while, think it thru rather than act rashly to purge your life of Magna badness.

Otherwise - How much you after for the TJ? What part of Vic? What features etc does the car have?

Mal / Elwyn - it seems to be a trend with this 'wavy spring' breaking in TJ's onwards.....

Do you by any chances know which model had the single thicker wave spring?

MarkH sell your car and get yourself into the manual Verada that's for sale at the moment ;)
I have a tippy auto from my KJ 120K km perfect condition
I'll sell that if i can sell my manual Verada first

I'm not certain, the Tamworth Auto trans boys mentioned it from the get-go as being more reliable in an older model (I just assumed TE/TF).

I was all set to attack Mitsi for a warranty claim, but cos I had ****s with the local Mits dealer and kept them away from diagnosis or repair - factory told me to stuff-off! However, somewhere I do have details that Mitsi revised the part number TWICE between build date of my car and the date my KJ broke down.

I can ask the Auto Trans guys tomorrow, if you like. I know, also, they did not source parts kits for my rebuild from Mitsi, but via a Auto Trans parts specialist distributor. What I don't know is whether Mitsi, or other tranny places would replace the dud wave-spring with the same dud part - or whether every one has woken-up and uses the more durable one. Hopefully, Mitsi have destroyed every last bloody one of the duds... and only supply the durable item.

Given that the Tamworth guys reckon they do 6-10 Mitsi transmissions every year with this problem - hence their strong (correct) suspicion when mine shat itself - I really think Mitsi had a dud product and recall could have been called for. However, my bad that I didn't even ring Dealer when this happened (unrelated issue the prev wk), so I never pursued factory beyond first enquiry. My box failed at 57,122kms - which is bloody pathetic really.

Let me know if you want me to quiz the guys, I have promised them a CD of the 3rd gen workshop manual, so would be no trouble to ask them tomorrow.

I'm not certain, the Tamworth Auto trans boys mentioned it from the get-go as being more reliable in an older model (I just assumed TE/TF).

I was all set to attack Mitsi for a warranty claim, but cos I had ****s with the local Mits dealer and kept them away from diagnosis or repair - factory told me to stuff-off! However, somewhere I do have details that Mitsi revised the part number TWICE between build date of my car and the date my KJ broke down.

I can ask the Auto Trans guys tomorrow, if you like. I know, also, they did not source parts kits for my rebuild from Mitsi, but via a Auto Trans parts specialist distributor. What I don't know is whether Mitsi, or other tranny places would replace the dud wave-spring with the same dud part - or whether every one has woken-up and uses the more durable one. Hopefully, Mitsi have destroyed every last bloody one of the duds... and only supply the durable item.

Given that the Tamworth guys reckon they do 6-10 Mitsi transmissions every year with this problem - hence their strong (correct) suspicion when mine shat itself - I really think Mitsi had a dud product and recall could have been called for. However, my bad that I didn't even ring Dealer when this happened (unrelated issue the prev wk), so I never pursued factory beyond first enquiry. My box failed at 57,122kms - which is bloody pathetic really. Also, there are US sites with exact same problem (either in Mits or Dodge, I forget - was link in our forums) so this wasn't just an Aussie thing.

Let me know if you want me to quiz the guys, I have promised them a CD of the 3rd gen workshop manual, so would be no trouble to ask them tomorrow.

If you're already there, then asking the boys would be great. Otherwise its not that much of an issue.

I have a TF, so im hoping it has the good solid wave spring, that said - box might be up for a rebuild soon anyway - good to know this info so in 60 000km I dont rebuild it again :woot:

product recall on a gearbox out job. Ouch.

i got a te altera i brought about 6 months ago it had two autos replaced by mitsi at 48000km then at 89km got compliance plates under hood saying this
i got the car cheap funny that with another auto i replaced it and noticed it had been replaced since mitsi did it diffrent number on box its done 220km now and got its 4 auto
i have my tj done 140000km going strong no problems

product recall on a gearbox out job. Ouch.

Exactly. All down to the mighty dollar, eh? But there must have been at least half dozen members here who have suffered the problem since it happened to me. I suppose it a lot of economic stimulus to tranny repair industry, kindly supplied by Mitsi (rather than Mr Rudd). At the expense of Magna drivers.

No doubt all manufacturers have their own Achilles heel's of reliability issues.

EDIT: Robceline, does it suggest they were recall replacements, or just a sticker to say a genuine Mits reco box was put in (at owners cost, presumeably by Mits Dealer)?

Lost some gears? Which ones?

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5109/gearsofwar250248370g.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gearsofwar250248370g.jpg)

first one was a recall the other says reco warranty by mitsi

Exactly. All down to the mighty dollar, eh? But there must have been at least half dozen members here who have suffered the problem since it happened to me. I suppose it a lot of economic stimulus to tranny repair industry, kindly supplied by Mitsi (rather than Mr Rudd). At the expense of Magna drivers.

No doubt all manufacturers have their own Achilles heel's of reliability issues.

EDIT: Robceline, does it suggest they were recall replacements, or just a sticker to say a genuine Mits reco box was put in (at owners cost, presumeably by Mits Dealer)?

Was there any kind of warranty on the $3500- reco box? How about shopping around for prices of repair?

Or are you just over it (that's understandable)and want it gone?

If you don't urgently need this car - I'd advise to sit on it for a wee while, think it thru rather than act rashly to purge your life of Magna badness.

Otherwise - How much you after for the TJ? What part of Vic? What features etc does the car have?

The expensive reconditioned trans came with a 12 month warranty and failed at 20 months. Replacement is going to be around $3,000 if I get a transmission specialist to do it, closer to $1,000 if I grab a box from the wreckers and try (with no experience) to shove it in myself. Would be taking a chance on the box from the wreckers having some life left in it. Can't see that it would be worth spending a lot of money on a car that's realistically only worth $6K or so in going order (210,000 km on the clock). Been stuck on Melb trains ever since (I don't recommend this) and trying hard not to get seduced by a cute turbo diesel Peugeot 308 that keeps looking at me as I walk past the dealer on the way from the station. I wonder if French flair can make up for the loss of my 3.5L grunt.

Spec wise the car is just a stock standard 3.5 exec, sienna red. Only non-standard parts are roof racks and I replaced the stereo with a Pioneer system (coz it has bluetooth and plays my entire iTunes library files direct without having to convert to MP3). Just did all the bake pads a week before it died so it stops real good, just doesn't move once stopped. Front bumper also has a bit of missing paint where Er-In-Doors misjudged exactly how long the garage is. Probably be good for parts or for someone who has the time to fit a replacement transmission. Don't imagine its worth much as it is.

Bit of "nothing" to update:

Went to the auto-trans guys, took a CD of magna workshop manuals as a sweetener, and still came away with stuff-all.
They aren't really sure, and are not really familiar with magna model series or years of manufacture..... said "maybe about 2000 models" got new-style breaky-wave-spring.

I asked if the spin-on filter disappearing would coincide with new wave-spring - not sure.

I asked if the spin-on filter would necessarily have saved a box - they didn't think it would. The boxes with the spin-on cartridge filters also have the internal filter like the boxes which gave us trouble.

Just any time they see a box come in with the breaky "3-layer" Wave Spring, they will order what they think of as the "old style" thicker more-robust wave-spring.

If anyone looks at the pdf Workshop Manual, Chapter 23B is the auto transmission, and the Wave Spring is labelled as #61 in one exploded diagram (apologies, I may have posted this as another number from diagram earlier).

I am SURE that I checked at Mitsi Spares counter, and that the Wave Spring part number was revised TWICE since my KJ was built, but I cannot find the 3 part numbers (original, plus 2 revisions) nor the dates of the changes.

Auto trans guys suggested that maybe other workshops still use the wave-spring that wraps around onto itself to form 3 layers. Just that they think its trouble, and always get what they expect to be more-reliable thick one.

MarkH - there is a TL box for sale in QLD in these forums - it would be a tiptronic style.... would probably require a suitable TCU and then there's the cost of transporting it to you - shame cos its going for $250-IIRC.

Think you will find that the triptronic box is the same as the non trip as the TCU does all the work

Thanks Mal,

Does that mean he'd need to do a full Tippy conversion (selector, TCU to suit the box) or that he could use the Qld box in his car as a "std" 4-sp Auto (no extra bits, just use that box as non-tippy).

Sorry, really tired and dumb here tonight - gotta get to bed!!!

hi my tj box is also on the way out i got 2 quotes a. from mits in chadstone $2400 full recondition!
b. of about 4-600 in parts doing the labour myself. so i opted for
c manual!

Weighed up the options and figured I don't really have the time to learn how to recondition the box myself. Got so much else on my plate and the removal/refit doesn't look like a walk in the park to me. The alternatives were to take a chance on a box from a wrecker (that I would have to fit) or to spend big money to get it done properly (yet again). At then end of the day if I got it fixed and then sold it I would only be ahead by about $2K. So I reckon it's time to buy a new car and either sell the TJ as is ($1K) to someone who has the time to fix the transmission or send it off to a wrecker for parts. :ninja:
Anyone interested in a TJ with a broken gearbox ?

Got me new car now, so the TJ (VIN date Nov 2000, 3.5L exec) is for sale if anyone wants it. Needs a recondition of the gearbox (all else working fine) or use for parts. 213,000 on the clock.

Chuck it in the for sale section - im sure someone will snap it up soon.