hi everyone

i am looking for some performance upgrade, mainly to the motor.
except for a new exhust/extractor system, is there anything i can do for reasonably cheap that will increase power?

i have a pod and some cam adjustment done.

thank

If anyone names anything less than extractors/exhaust they will get flamed for saying something not worth any extra power. All you could really do is Intake mod like upgrade to a K&N panel, cold air intake etc.
A muffler change to a straight through design is always a good start and worth around 8kw and will give a noticable change in the way the car drives.

If you cant afford anything on the motor, I would concentrate on the suspension first....you car is fast enough as it is (for now), improve the suspension (springs/shocks/rear sway bar) and look for better brake pads.

Retune by SKR
>cat back
>extractors
>Cams
>headwork
>forced induction path

ok, how noisy is a straight through, i live in cairns, and there is 3 cops for every car. so i dont really want to attract attention.

ok, how noisy is a straight through, i live in cairns, and there is 3 cops for every car. so i dont really want to attract attention.


if you get a decent branded muffler and tell the muff shop what your after and how loud you want it the will be able to fit something that suits you.

or.

do a quick search and you will find 100 threads about rear mufflers and what other members have used.

I fyou get a lukey/mitsu sports muffler it will be fine as they are basically whats fitted to every sports/vrx magna.

if you've already got a pod, then i'd recommend relocating it to the lower front of your engine bay via some piping (do a search for THsmoker's CAI). your pod is actually robbing you of power by sitting open in your engine bay, sucking in hot air. it may sound like you're making more power, but its the complete opposite.

from memory, it should only cost you about $70 in materials to construct the above mentioned CAI kit.

hi everyone

i am looking for some performance upgrade, mainly to the motor.
except for a new exhust/extractor system, is there anything i can do for reasonably cheap that will increase power?

i have a pod and some cam adjustment done.

thank

Do you already have headers fitted? If you drive a 3rd gen model then don't waste money on them. There is basically nothing wrong with the 3rd gen cast iron manifolds and engine pipes. Headers are worth only 2 kW. Spend the money on a good rear muffler. That was worth about 8 kW on VR/VR-X models.

Also make sure the CAT is in good shape internally. There is a lot to be gained there if the old CAT's ceramic is falling to bits or partly melted.

Cheers,
Alan

ok, i have moved the pod down into the bumper.

has anyone here taken the rear or middle muffler out all together? and just out a pipe in its place?

i am wondering because i dont want to take it out and have it sound like every single vr commodore, ie that crappy droneing noise. i also wont be bothered if it doesnt increase power.

thanks

ok, i have moved the pod down into the bumper.

has anyone here taken the rear or middle muffler out all together? and just out a pipe in its place?

i am wondering because i dont want to take it out and have it sound like every single vr commodore, ie that crappy droneing noise. i also wont be bothered if it doesnt increase power.

thanks
It will sound like a commodore. :eeek: Get The lukey LR-whatever-it-is (search it) or a standard sports/vrx one from mitsi. I have a redback one on mine and its pretty good as well. Like previously mentioned, don't bother with headers, I did, and I reckon the high flow cat was a much better buy. The standard exhaust flows pretty damn well, once you get rid of that stock muffler. The only reason I changed my piping was because it rusted out.

Do you already have headers fitted? If you drive a 3rd gen model then don't waste money on them. There is basically nothing wrong with the 3rd gen cast iron manifolds and engine pipes. Headers are worth only 2 kW. Spend the money on a good rear muffler. That was worth about 8 kW on VR/VR-X models.

Also make sure the CAT is in good shape internally. There is a lot to be gained there if the old CAT's ceramic is falling to bits or partly melted.

Cheers,
Alan

Alan,

I know this thread is about 3rd gen Magnas, but I would like your views on extractors/headers for a 380.

Are they worth the cost & effort on a 380, or would I be wasting my money?

As you undoubtedly know the 380 has three cats, one on each exhaust manifold and another in the engine pipe.

Replacing the standard manifolds with extractors gets rid of the first two cats, which supposedly increases flow and hence performance.

But is this true?

Or I would I also need to replace the 3rd cat with a high flow version? I've read that the existing 3rd cat flows quite well and replacing it is pointless until you do other mods which push the output to at least 220 or 230 kw.

I'm also worried about the O2 sensors. The 380 has four of them, and as far as I can see removing the first two cats means disconnecting at least two & maybe three of them.

What problems would/could this cause? Rough running/idle? CEL on all the time?

The only mob who make extractors for a 380 that I know of are RPW, and when I emailed them with a query about refitting the O2 sensors, or at least the rear one, i.e. do their extractors come with O2 plugs & extending cable(s) or similar, I was told 'no', and pretty much told to 'work it out yourself'.

I already have some basic flow improving mods - straight through rear muffler, 90mm snorkel, cut lower resonator on airbox, K&N panel filter, and I'd really appreciate your advice on extractors for a 380. (PS - mine's a manual).

KJ.

ok, i have moved the pod down into the bumper.

has anyone here taken the rear or middle muffler out all together? and just out a pipe in its place?

i am wondering because i dont want to take it out and have it sound like every single vr commodore, ie that crappy droneing noise. i also wont be bothered if it doesnt increase power.

thanks

I replaced the middle muffler with a hotdog, didn't really do anything for power but did make the sound a bit better and for $90 I couldn't complain.

Changing the cat is a great way to go as your 96 magna would problem benefit by replacing its 13yr old cat.

I have heard of one member that removed the rear muffler all together but didn't have many positive things to say about it. The Lukey mufflers are okay, I reckon they're a bit quiet. My car came with a mercury muffler that puts out that is a fair bit louder than the standard vrx/sports muffler.

On my 96 TE v6 manual I replaced the rear muffler with a Lukey LR2779 (the after market version of the VRX muffler) and it was still far too quiet for me and no noticable performance improvement, hardly any different from the stock muffler.

I then had the middle muffler/resonator chopped out and replaced with pipe, and it made a huge difference - nice deep exhaust note but not too loud, and no drone at all. And what seemed to be a performance boost, but that might just have been the placebo effect from the improved sound.

As for running with no rear muffler at all, I would recommend against it. I tried it on my 380 for a month or so, after I got sick of the drone from the Lukey Ultraflow I had fitted.

Slight reduction in drone, but way too loud, and no performance gain. All the women in my life objected to it!

So that's my recommendation - fit a Lukey LR2779 and chop out the middle muffler/resonator.

KJ.

Alan,

I know this thread is about 3rd gen Magnas, but I would like your views on extractors/headers for a 380.

Are they worth the cost & effort on a 380, or would I be wasting my money?

As you undoubtedly know the 380 has three cats, one on each exhaust manifold and another in the engine pipe.

Replacing the standard manifolds with extractors gets rid of the first two cats, which supposedly increases flow and hence performance.

But is this true?

Or I would I also need to replace the 3rd cat with a high flow version? I've read that the existing 3rd cat flows quite well and replacing it is pointless until you do other mods which push the output to at least 220 or 230 kw.

I'm also worried about the O2 sensors. The 380 has four of them, and as far as I can see removing the first two cats means disconnecting at least two & maybe three of them.

What problems would/could this cause? Rough running/idle? CEL on all the time?

The only mob who make extractors for a 380 that I know of are RPW, and when I emailed them with a query about refitting the O2 sensors, or at least the rear one, i.e. do their extractors come with O2 plugs & extending cable(s) or similar, I was told 'no', and pretty much told to 'work it out yourself'.

I already have some basic flow improving mods - straight through rear muffler, 90mm snorkel, cut lower resonator on airbox, K&N panel filter, and I'd really appreciate your advice on extractors for a 380. (PS - mine's a manual).

KJ.
Mate, this has been discussed in the 380 section. I have the extractors & yes they are worth it, there is about 20kw available once the precats go. Re the O2 sensors you need to relocate them, I have done this & solved the CEL problem. If you want to go that path I am quite happy to part with the knowledge I have gained by experimentation. To take full advantage you should also contemplate a piggyback ecu.

Sorry for hijacking your thread.

Thanks Fooz.

I'll wait and see what Alan J reckons, but it sounds like I might go ahead with extractors.

I'll need to find a decent exhaust shop in Adelaide who'll fit them and undertake other 'adjustments' without charging like a wounded bull. So far all I have found is second rate places that don't want to know about the issues involved (such as O2 sensors), or other joints that want to charge me an arm and a leg.

I'll probably come back to you with lots of questions, but just a couple about the O2 sensors for now.

How did you get around the O2 sensor problems?

Did you get all four reconnected somehow, or did you 'lose' two or three of them?

If you lost two or three of them, what difference did it make to how the engine runs? No rough idle I trust?

Or does the piggyback ECU (I'm thinking maybe Unichip Q) sort out any such problems?

I suppose the real question is can a 380 motor run 'perfectly' with only one O2 sensor and the stock ECU?

(Mods - feel free to move this part of the thread if you think it's in the wrong place).

KJ.

Thanks Fooz.

I'll wait and see what Alan J reckons, but it sounds like I might go ahead with extractors.

I'll need to find a decent exhaust shop in Adelaide who'll fit them and undertake other 'adjustments' without charging like a wounded bull. So far all I have found is second rate places that don't want to know about the issues involved (such as O2 sensors), or other joints that want to charge me an arm and a leg.

I'll probably come back to you with lots of questions, but just a couple about the O2 sensors for now.

How did you get around the O2 sensor problems?

Did you get all four reconnected somehow, or did you 'lose' two or three of them?

If you lost two or three of them, what difference did it make to how the engine runs? No rough idle I trust?

Or does the piggyback ECU (I'm thinking maybe Unichip Q) sort out any such problems?

I suppose the real question is can a 380 motor run 'perfectly' with only one O2 sensor and the stock ECU?

(Mods - feel free to move this part of the thread if you think it's in the wrong place).

KJ.

Have you tried Exhaust Technology ph.82727500., they fitted my extractors and hi-flow cat.,found them good to deal with.

Hey mate I live in cairns an have a lukey AL4-5597 muffler... If you wanted we could meet up and i can show you what it sounds like. i ordered mine from Supercheap on Anderson road and it was only bout $215 delivered. Let me know if your keen. If you want to know what it sounds like without the rear muffler simply undo it from the rear flange and drive around for the day, it is quite loud tho.....

Thanks Fooz.

I'll wait and see what Alan J reckons, but it sounds like I might go ahead with extractors.

I'll need to find a decent exhaust shop in Adelaide who'll fit them and undertake other 'adjustments' without charging like a wounded bull. So far all I have found is second rate places that don't want to know about the issues involved (such as O2 sensors), or other joints that want to charge me an arm and a leg.

I'll probably come back to you with lots of questions, but just a couple about the O2 sensors for now.

How did you get around the O2 sensor problems?

Did you get all four reconnected somehow, or did you 'lose' two or three of them?

If you lost two or three of them, what difference did it make to how the engine runs? No rough idle I trust?

Or does the piggyback ECU (I'm thinking maybe Unichip Q) sort out any such problems?

I suppose the real question is can a 380 motor run 'perfectly' with only one O2 sensor and the stock ECU?

(Mods - feel free to move this part of the thread if you think it's in the wrong place).

KJ.
KJ I'll start a thread in the 380 section called "Extractor questions" so we can leave these guys to their thread.

Alan,

I know this thread is about 3rd gen Magnas, but I would like your views on extractors/headers for a 380.

Are they worth the cost & effort on a 380, or would I be wasting my money?

As you undoubtedly know the 380 has three cats, one on each exhaust manifold and another in the engine pipe.

Replacing the standard manifolds with extractors gets rid of the first two cats, which supposedly increases flow and hence performance.

But is this true?

Or I would I also need to replace the 3rd cat with a high flow version? I've read that the existing 3rd cat flows quite well and replacing it is pointless until you do other mods which push the output to at least 220 or 230 kw.

I'm also worried about the O2 sensors. The 380 has four of them, and as far as I can see removing the first two cats means disconnecting at least two & maybe three of them.

What problems would/could this cause? Rough running/idle? CEL on all the time?

The only mob who make extractors for a 380 that I know of are RPW, and when I emailed them with a query about refitting the O2 sensors, or at least the rear one, i.e. do their extractors come with O2 plugs & extending cable(s) or similar, I was told 'no', and pretty much told to 'work it out yourself'.

I already have some basic flow improving mods - straight through rear muffler, 90mm snorkel, cut lower resonator on airbox, K&N panel filter, and I'd really appreciate your advice on extractors for a 380. (PS - mine's a manual).

KJ.

I have no personal experience with the 380 but have had a look at the engine Graham bought to fiddle with. The manifold CATS are obviously very restrictive. We ran a few numbers and came to the conclusion that a stock 3.8 with stock 3.5 manifolds and engine pipes should make an easy 200kW, and with a tweak of the cams to adv them probably close on 205kw, but with a lot bigger % gain in the bottom end and mid range. However that was assuming that the high compression ratio, 10:1, didn't get in the way.(Graham's engine by the way was 9.8-9.85:1 on all cylinders, which is more about where you want it to be able to really fiddle stock or close to stock cams when running 95RON).

Advancing the cams increases cylinder pressure so without suitable fuel octane the knock sensor can be triggered and the ign timing gets retarded. Retarded timing can then wipe out some of the gains possible with advancing the cams. Its a bit of a balancing act. We reckoned the stock cams ideally need to be advanced about 6-8 deg on the rear bank and 9-11 deg on the front(thats crank deg from the stock position). But the best compromise may be a couple degs less so as to avoid ign timing being retard by the knocksensor/ECU. Valve to piston clearances haven't been checked yet either, but should be OK as the inlet appears to be about 1mm recessed compared to the 3.5 combustion chamber.

On the stock cams I see no issue with stock 3.5 ex manifolds and engine pipes bent by an ex shop. The design is quite good and headers are only going to get you 2-3kw more. However bent pipes and manifolds may not be a lot less expensive than headers. If you buy manifolds from wreckers give them a grind inside to get rid of rust and slag(or get an engine reconditioner to hot tank them), and get the heat shields too if you want it to look stock.

I haven't seen inside the center CAT or flow tested but would not expect any sizable gain there unless you were planning on a lot of big power-up mods. The main issue is that the stock CAT melts when it gets too hot, or can collapse from being belted and bashed about or from vibration. High quality metal CATS technically don't melt but can get blocked.

The other matters you asked about have generally been answered in other posts, and this 3 CAT stuff is new to me too so its something I have to learn about.

The sort of mods you have in mind should not require any ECU tweaks. The air flow meter and MAP sensor will pick up changes in air flow and the ECU will respond OK. It will still be too rich at full throttle so there could be HP to be had there.

Cheers,
Alan