Thanks Fooz.

I'll wait and see what Alan J reckons, but it sounds like I might go ahead with extractors.

I'll need to find a decent exhaust shop in Adelaide who'll fit them and undertake other 'adjustments' without charging like a wounded bull. So far all I have found is second rate places that don't want to know about the issues involved (such as O2 sensors), or other joints that want to charge me an arm and a leg.

I'll probably come back to you with lots of questions, but just a couple about the O2 sensors for now.

1/ How did you get around the O2 sensor problems?

2/ Did you get all four reconnected somehow, or did you 'lose' two or three of them?

3/ If you lost two or three of them, what difference did it make to how the engine runs? No rough idle I trust?

Or does the piggyback ECU (I'm thinking maybe Unichip Q) sort out any such problems?

4/I suppose the real question is can a 380 motor run 'perfectly' with only one O2 sensor and the stock ECU?


KJ.

** QUESTION MOVED FROM TECH TORQUE (NEXT STEP) THREAD **

Answers follow -

1/ With the two rear O2 sensors which are relocated to behind the main underbody cat, I have inserted spacers with a restrictor hole at the exhaust pipe end to space them away from the exhaust flow. This basically reduces the amount of exhaust gas metered so the O2 sensors still think the cats are all in place & working fine. (I can take some pics when I get my car back from the dyno)

2/ No all four are connected. The front two are placed into the extractor pipes in the provided locations, these meter the exhaust the same as they would normally with the factory engine pipes. The rear two which are after the precats are relocated as above & will need the spacers to avoid the CEL.

3/ All four sensors are retained. Even if the CEL on because the rear ones aren't spaced like I have advised, the car drives normally & you just have the annoying CEL on all the time.

4/ I doubt the engine would be happy running one sensor, because the factory ECU can't be retuned I'd say the CEL would be on permanantly & possibly run in limp mode.

Thanks Fooz.

Of course you expected more questions, so here they come! (and yes please to pics when you can)

1. Rear O2 sensors.

Not sure what you mean by spacers. Have you inserted washers where they screw in, such that they don't screw in as far as normal into engine pipe, and that's how the flow going past them is reduced? If so, how thick are these washers/spacers?

Have you retained the stock engine pipe or did you get a replacement pipe as part of the extractor set up?

If replacement pipe, did it come with the two rear O2 sensor mounting points (i.e. threaded holes) or did you have to get them machined into it?

2. Front (or pre-cat) O2 sensors

Did the extractor pipes come with O2 sensor mounting points? Your answer 2/, where you say 'provided locations', suggests they did. Thing is, I'm sure RPW told me that their extractors don't come with any O2 sensor mounting points/holes. Or maybe they we just talking about the rear sensors?

3. O2 sensors in general

Did you need to get any new/different sensors, or extend the length of any wires? I'm pretty sure these are four wire sensors (two white, one black & one red IIRC).

I renewed the O2 sensor on my old TE v6 about a year ago. Used an after-market Bosch replacement, cost about $120 from Ripco. I had to cut & splice all four wires using the splicing kit which came with it, took ages but got there in the end. I'm hoping the same sort of thing isn't needed on the 380, let alone times four!

Thanks for all your help so far.

KJ.

Thanks Fooz.

Of course you expected more questions, so here they come! (and yes please to pics when you can)

1. Rear O2 sensors.

Not sure what you mean by spacers. Have you inserted washers where they screw in, such that they don't screw in as far as normal into engine pipe, and that's how the flow going past them is reduced? If so, how thick are these washers/spacers?

Have you retained the stock engine pipe or did you get a replacement pipe as part of the extractor set up?

If replacement pipe, did it come with the two rear O2 sensor mounting points (i.e. threaded holes) or did you have to get them machined into it?

2. Front (or pre-cat) O2 sensors

Did the extractor pipes come with O2 sensor mounting points? Your answer 2/, where you say 'provided locations', suggests they did. Thing is, I'm sure RPW told me that their extractors don't come with any O2 sensor mounting points/holes. Or maybe they we just talking about the rear sensors?

3. O2 sensors in general

Did you need to get any new/different sensors, or extend the length of any wires? I'm pretty sure these are four wire sensors (two white, one black & one red IIRC).

I renewed the O2 sensor on my old TE v6 about a year ago. Used an after-market Bosch replacement, cost about $120 from Ripco. I had to cut & splice all four wires using the splicing kit which came with it, took ages but got there in the end. I'm hoping the same sort of thing isn't needed on the 380, let alone times four!

Thanks for all your help so far.

KJ.
1/ By spacer I mean a spacer tube that screws into the O2 mount on the exhaust pipe & the O2 sensor screws into the back of that, effectively taking the O2 sensor away from the exhaust gas stream so it meters less gas.

The extractors bolt up to the stock underbody cat & any exhaust place will be able to supply & weld in place the O2 sensor mounts. I have now had all the piping replaced including the stock cat & instructed the exhaust place to weld some O2 mounts in the same position in the new pipe as the old.

2/ Yep my RPW extractors came with O2 mounts for the front sensors. I think BloodAsp said his only had one but once again the exhaust place can weld one in, just make sure it's about the same distance down the pipe if you only have one or I can take a pic of that too.

3/ You only have to lengthen the back sensors & yes they are four wire. All the stock sensors are retained.

Found some old pics.

Front O2 Sensors

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh60/foozrcool/102_PANA141.jpg

Rear O2 Sensors

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh60/foozrcool/102_PANA143.jpg

These rear sensors don't have the spacers installed as it was just after I had the extractors fitted.

yippy i was going to ask you fooz the same quistions when i order mine. so were did you get the spacers and can you get pics when you get your car back.

yippy i was going to ask you fooz the same quistions when i order mine. so were did you get the spacers and can you get pics when you get your car back.
I actually got a couple of sets of O2 extenders off of ebay & experimented with them until I got the required length etc. I was then going to have the final article made up but I stumbled across another guy in the US on ebay who had exactly what I was after. I just had a look & he doesn't have any up for sale at the moment but they could easily be made up if you had access to a workshop & knew what you were doing.

Yep I can get some pics when I get my car back.

cheers would appreciate pics. looking at making them myslef.

Thanks Fooz, clear as mud now.

Just one last question.

How did you lengthen the wires to the rear two O2 sensors?

Did you just splice some extra wire in or was it more detailed/professional (read expensive!) than that?

I think I can see something that looks like a pair of wire joiners near the bottom of the second pic.

KJ.

Thanks Fooz, clear as mud now.

Just one last question.

How did you lengthen the wires to the rear two O2 sensors?

Did you just splice some extra wire in or was it more detailed/professional (read expensive!) than that?

I think I can see something that looks like a pair of wire joiners near the bottom of the second pic.

KJ.
My mechanic did it & he organised the exhaust place to fit the extractors as well. All they have done is cut & soldered the wiring together & put heatshrink tubing over the wires & split tubing also. I think what you see there is a cable tie. I'm from an electrical background & could've easily done it but my car was getting serviced so I let them do the lot.

Did a search on ebay under 'O2 extenders' & got this which is basically what I have & it works. You will need two of these just for the rear O2 sensors.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh60/foozrcool/02.jpg

Found 'em Fooz.

$11.99 US each, seems OK, BUT they want $52.95 US to ship to Oz!

That would work out to approx $120 AU all up.

Found some others that are only $3.30 US each + $13.70 US shipping, at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/O2-OXYGEN-SENSOR-EXTENDER-HYDROGEN-HHO-EFIE-MAP-MAF_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em63Q2el1177Q QhashZitem170324850192QQitemZ170324850192QQptZMoto rsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

See attached pic.

Would these be any good? Would they work?

They look a lot shorter than the Mirage ones.

It looks like the Mirage ones don't have the O2 sensor poking into the engine pipe at all, going by the length and the small size of the hole in the end of them, whereas the other smaller ones allow the O2 sensor to poke someway into the engine pipe.

So I'm wondering how the Mirage ones allow the O2 sensor to get a reading at all, unless it's from gas blowing up through the small hole.

I'm guessing you might have tried these smaller & cheaper ones first and found that they didn't work.

KJ.

Found 'em Fooz.

$11.99 US each, seems OK, BUT they want $52.95 US to ship to Oz!

That would work out to approx $120 AU all up.

Found some others that are only $3.30 US each + $13.70 US shipping, at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/O2-OXYGEN-SENSOR-EXTENDER-HYDROGEN-HHO-EFIE-MAP-MAF_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em63Q2el1177Q QhashZitem170324850192QQitemZ170324850192QQptZMoto rsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

See attached pic.

Would these be any good? Would they work?

They look a lot shorter than the Mirage ones.

It looks like the Mirage ones don't have the O2 sensor poking into the engine pipe at all, going by the length and the small size of the hole in the end of them, whereas the other smaller ones allow the O2 sensor to poke someway into the engine pipe.

So I'm wondering how the Mirage ones allow the O2 sensor to get a reading at all, unless it's from gas blowing up through the small hole.

I'm guessing you might have tried these smaller & cheaper ones first and found that they didn't work.

KJ.
Yep they don't work. For one our 16mm sensors bottom out & don't screw right in & they dont have the restrictor hole either. I tried all sorts of combinations over many months before I got what I have now. It was just a fluke that what I wanted appeared on ebay once I worked out how to fix the CEL problem.

Yep I wouldn't pay that freight charge, all they'll do is stick em in an envelope with $3 postage & charge you $50 odd. Keep an eye out some may come on at a better price from another seller or maybe PM mytsgt95 as he seems keen to make his own up. Maybe he can make some for everyone for a small fee?

Thanks Fooz.

One more silly question.

Going by your earlier posts the rear O2 spacers are purely to prevent the CEL being on all the time, and the car will run perfectly OK without them. Correct?

But I suppose besides the annoyance factor it is not a good thing to have the CEL on all the time, just in case something really did go wrong that the CEL would otherwise tell you about.

KJ.

Thanks Fooz.

One more silly question.

Going by your earlier posts the rear O2 spacers are purely to prevent the CEL being on all the time, and the car will run perfectly OK without them. Correct?

But I suppose besides the annoyance factor it is not a good thing to have the CEL on all the time, just in case something really did go wrong that the CEL would otherwise tell you about.

KJ.
Not sure if it would run without them at all, might bring on limp mode. But from my experience having the light on makes no difference to performance its just the annoyance factor ...... & yeah you're right, if there was another problem you would never know unless you have a code scanner like me.

Fooz,

Went and saw another exhaust shop today.

Really good to deal with for once, showed genuine interest in the problems with O2 sensors, CEL etc.

Showed him the photos you posted and straight away he understood the problems & how to solve them. And he agreed with your solution.

Very clean & tidy workshop as well.

And best of all, his quote not just for installing the extractors, but doing a proper dual exhaust system as well, was much less than anyone else so far.

So I've decided to go ahead with both RPW extractors & a dual system.

He just needs to get external quotes for two things - extending the wiring for the rear two O2 sensors, and making up two O2 spacers (he reckons he can get them made up for a lot less than what it would cost me to import them from the US).

He just needs some details of how far to extend the O2 sensor wires (i.e. a measurement), and especially how long to make the O2 spacers.

Fooz - can you help out here?

I don't mind if you don't know the exact wiring length, a rough measurement should do, but can you accurately measure the length of the 'Mirage' O2 spacers and let me know?

KJ.

Fooz,

Went and saw another exhaust shop today.

Really good to deal with for once, showed genuine interest in the problems with O2 sensors, CEL etc.

Showed him the photos you posted and straight away he understood the problems & how to solve them. And he agreed with your solution.

Very clean & tidy workshop as well.

And best of all, his quote not just for installing the extractors, but doing a proper dual exhaust system as well, was much less than anyone else so far.

So I've decided to go ahead with both RPW extractors & a dual system.

He just needs to get external quotes for two things - extending the wiring for the rear two O2 sensors, and making up two O2 spacers (he reckons he can get them made up for a lot less than what it would cost me to import them from the US).

He just needs some details of how far to extend the O2 sensor wires (i.e. a measurement), and especially how long to make the O2 spacers.

Fooz - can you help out here?

I don't mind if you don't know the exact wiring length, a rough measurement should do, but can you accurately measure the length of the 'Mirage' O2 spacers and let me know?

KJ.

That sounds good.

I can't measure mine as I don't have the car yet & am going overseas next week so it will be a couple of weeks before I could get measurements off mine. The wiring can be approximated by yourself, as where they go is just behind the original cat as in the photo, so just do a guesstimate from current location to there.

Re the O2 extenders I don't think length is critical but they would be approx 50mm just guessing & don't forget the restrictor hole in the other end.

Fooz,

Went and saw another exhaust shop today.

Really good to deal with for once, showed genuine interest in the problems with O2 sensors, CEL etc.

Showed him the photos you posted and straight away he understood the problems & how to solve them. And he agreed with your solution.

Very clean & tidy workshop as well.

And best of all, his quote not just for installing the extractors, but doing a proper dual exhaust system as well, was much less than anyone else so far.

So I've decided to go ahead with both RPW extractors & a dual system.



He just needs to get external quotes for two things - extending the wiring for the rear two O2 sensors, and making up two O2 spacers (he reckons he can get them made up for a lot less than what it would cost me to import them from the US).

He just needs some details of how far to extend the O2 sensor wires (i.e. a measurement), and especially how long to make the O2 spacers.

Fooz - can you help out here?

I don't mind if you don't know the exact wiring length, a rough measurement should do, but can you accurately measure the length of the 'Mirage' O2 spacers and let me know?

KJ.

how much were the extractors.

Mytsgt95,

RPW web site price is $531.82.

But they don't tell you that is the GST exclusive price.

The real price, which I have been invoiced for, is $531.82 + $53.18 GST + $55 postage = $640 all up.

As you're also in SA the postage should be the same.

Not cheap, but not OTT either, and there really is no choice as no-one but RPW does extractors for 380s.

KJ.

:hmm: Looks like there might be a couple of more quicker 380's around soon. You guys will need a piggyback & some 98 for the engine to drink next. :badgrin:

rpw extractors are made by hurricane.

:hmm: Looks like there might be a couple of more quicker 380's around soon. You guys will need a piggyback & some 98 for the engine to drink next. :badgrin:

also have a surprise for use in the next month or two hehe

Mytsgt95,

Far as I can tell Hurricane extractors are made by Liverpool Exhaust in Sydney, but they have a pretty ordinary and very out of date web site, and I'm guessing they don't sell the 380 extractors direct to the public.

Fooz,

Yep, I run Shell V-Power anyway and the next mod I'm looking at is a Unichip Q.

Unless Steve Knight figures out how to flash a 380 ECU first!

KJ.

Mytsgt95,

Far as I can tell Hurricane extractors are made by Liverpool Exhaust in Sydney, but they have a pretty ordinary and very out of date web site, and I'm guessing they don't sell the 380 extractors direct to the public.
KJ.

BloodAsp had his extractors supplied & fitted at Liverpool exhaust.

I hope you have a Unichip dealer down there that knows what he is doing as BloodAsp had a bit of a muck round with his.

Fooz,

I had a Unichip (type A I think) fitted to my old TE about 7 years ago by a bloke named Greg Keen in a business called Turbo Tune (959 South Rd Melrose Park SA, but no web page). IIRC back then he was the only authorised Unichip fitter in Adelaide.

Might give him a call next week. My main worry is the cost - he wasn't cheap last time and that was 7 years ago, so I reckon a Unichip Q & fitting & tune & dyno testing will run to around $1,500 and maybe as high as $2,000. Maybe not worth it if it releases only 10 or 15kw.

Earlier on in this thread you said that extractors would increase power by 20kw.

Just wondering, is that ATW or at the flywheel?

Is it dependant on a chip (such as a Unichip Q), or would a chip & tune release more on top of the 20kw?

And is it on top of or together with the basic intake & exhaust mods I've already got (straight through muffer, K&N panel, 90mm snorkel, end cut off of bottom airbox resonator)?

Far as I can tell my existing mods have taken the power (at the flywheel) from stock 175kw to around 200kw, so I'm guessing the extractors will release more on top of that. But 20kw more or a bit less?

KJ.

Fooz,

I had a Unichip (type A I think) fitted to my old TE about 7 years ago by a bloke named Greg Keen in a business called Turbo Tune (959 South Rd Melrose Park SA, but no web page). IIRC back then he was the only authorised Unichip fitter in Adelaide.

Might give him a call next week. My main worry is the cost - he wasn't cheap last time and that was 7 years ago, so I reckon a Unichip Q & fitting & tune & dyno testing will run to around $1,500 and maybe as high as $2,000. Maybe not worth it if it releases only 10 or 15kw.

Earlier on in this thread you said that extractors would increase power by 20kw.

Just wondering, is that ATW or at the flywheel?

Is it dependant on a chip (such as a Unichip Q), or would a chip & tune release more on top of the 20kw?

And is it on top of or together with the basic intake & exhaust mods I've already got (straight through muffer, K&N panel, 90mm snorkel, end cut off of bottom airbox resonator)?

Far as I can tell my existing mods have taken the power (at the flywheel) from stock 175kw to around 200kw, so I'm guessing the extractors will release more on top of that. But 20kw more or a bit less?

KJ.

My Unichip Q was $1295 installed & tuned from memory.

I don't have any dyno figures but from what I have heard previously & my experience it would be around 20 KW at the flywheel. I think you may find you have probably picked up about 15 KW with the intake & muffler & the chip about another 10 KW when tuned for 98 octane.

You will find your AFR's will be running in the 10 range so tweeking these back up into the 12's & sticking about another 6 degrees timing advance in you will improve economy, drivability, torque & top end power.

just ordered my extractors

Mytsgt95,

RPW web site price is $531.82.

But they don't tell you that is the GST exclusive price.

The real price, which I have been invoiced for, is $531.82 + $53.18 GST + $55 postage = $640 all up.

As you're also in SA the postage should be the same.

Not cheap, but not OTT either, and there really is no choice as no-one but RPW does extractors for 380s.

KJ.

Unless you want headers for the cosmetics why not just opt for the cast iron 3.0/3.5 manifolds and heat shields(to hide the modification) and get an ex shop to do suitable engine pipes and fix the Lambda sensors issue?

The power difference with headers over non-CAT manifolds will only be 2-3kw maximum with stock cams.

When he gets time Graham Bell is going to check if the cams can be advanced without hitting the pistons. On the engine he bought he found they are retarded 6.4 deg, so will probably need to be moved 6-8 deg on the rear bank and 9-11 deg on the front bank for best power and economy. Thats assuming they clear the pistons OK.

Cheers,
Alan

Unless you want headers for the cosmetics why not just opt for the cast iron 3.0/3.5 manifolds and heat shields(to hide the modification) and get an ex shop to do suitable engine pipes and fix the Lambda sensors issue?

The power difference with headers over non-CAT manifolds will only be 2-3kw maximum with stock cams.

When he gets time Graham Bell is going to check if the cams can be advanced without hitting the pistons. On the engine he bought he found they are retarded 6.4 deg, so will probably need to be moved 6-8 deg on the rear bank and 9-11 deg on the front bank for best power and economy. Thats assuming they clear the pistons OK.

Cheers,
Alan


if your gonna go to the trouble of fitting 3.5 headers with custom secondrys (as needed to clear 3.8 sump) you may aswell fit the extractors. imo that is. plus the way im heading the gain should be more.

just got an email from rpw. they have ran out of stock and wont get any for two weeks. i cant wait that long

Yep, I got the same email yesterday.

I can wait two weeks though, no hurry.

It'll take that long to solve the O2 sensor wiring & spacer problems anyway.

KJ.

im gonna try the spacers in the normal spot on the headers. otherwise ill extend the wires etc. im also gonna make the spaces just need to wait until foozer gets his back so he can measure them.

hey fooz do you know roughly what length the spacers are and what size restrictor hole they have in them.

mine should arrive monday and im fitting them after work.

hey fooz do you know roughly what length the spacers are and what size restrictor hole they have in them.

mine should arrive monday and im fitting them after work.

I reckon they would be about 50mm total & approx 5mm max for the restrictor hole.

cheers.

hey fooz. does the o2 sensor holes already come in the extractors or do i need to welded them on.

hey fooz. does the o2 sensor holes already come in the extractors or do i need to welded them on.

Mine had them but I think BloodAsp only had one I think he said. He has disappeared off the face of the earth so you can't ask him & I don't know of anyone else who has them.

did they supply the o2 thread rings for the post cat sensors.

did they supply the o2 thread rings for the post cat sensors.

No they didn't, all exhaust places will have these & can weld them on.

recieved mine yesterday and now fitted. what a pain in the but to fit. have to get some mufflers fitted this week as its way to loud. sounds nuts at idle though. they only had 1 of the 2 o2 sensor holes welded on.

Mytsgt95,

My extractors still haven't rolled up, no idea what RPW are up to.

When you say pain in the butt to fit, could I have a bit more detail please so I can warn my exhaust shop guy.

What were the problems?

For example, were the extractors badly made and they didn't line up properly?

I've heard a few stories about the early RPW Magna extractors being hard to fit because the bends & angles weren't quite right, and I had a few problems with the set I had fitted about 6 years ago. After much twisting & cursing they eventually went on, but even then there was a spot that only just cleared one of the front suspension components, and it used to touch over bad bumps.

But then I hear that the latest ones aren't so bad & they line up properly.

So maybe RPW haven't got the 380 extractors right just yet?

And with the missing O2 sensor hole, what did you do?

Did you leave it at just one front sensor or did you get a second one put on the other extractor?

Lastly, how did you go with the rear O2 sensors, the extended wiring & the spacers?

KJ.

Mytsgt95,

My extractors still haven't rolled up, no idea what RPW are up to.

When you say pain in the butt to fit, could I have a bit more detail please so I can warn my exhaust shop guy.

What were the problems?

For example, were the extractors badly made and they didn't line up properly?

I've heard a few stories about the early RPW Magna extractors being hard to fit because the bends & angles weren't quite right, and I had a few problems with the set I had fitted about 6 years ago. After much twisting & cursing they eventually went on, but even then there was a spot that only just cleared one of the front suspension components, and it used to touch over bad bumps.

But then I hear that the latest ones aren't so bad & they line up properly.

So maybe RPW haven't got the 380 extractors right just yet?

And with the missing O2 sensor hole, what did you do?

Did you leave it at just one front sensor or did you get a second one put on the other extractor?

Lastly, how did you go with the rear O2 sensors, the extended wiring & the spacers?

KJ.

what i mean by pain to fit is getting to the rear header nuts. it was just a pain to reach them. putting the extractors on was easy except for one of the rear bank nuts. everything lined up good. havent done anything with the rear 02 sensors yet and left the front one of. car runs fine except for the cel.

Did you get a noticable gain?

Did you get a noticable gain?

i havent takin it for a drive yet as its extremely to loud. i gave it a light rev and yeah. ill let you know once the new exhaust is done.

well heres the latest. got new exhaust fitted yesterday (sounded ****) got two resinators fitted today which sounds better. it definetly goes harder with extractors and high flow cats.

also my old man machined up the o2 spacers and they work a treat. so if anyone wants some just pm me.

well heres the latest. got new exhaust fitted yesterday (sounded ****) got two resinators fitted today which sounds better. it definetly goes harder with extractors and high flow cats.

also my old man machined up the o2 spacers and they work a treat. so if anyone wants some just pm me.

Looking good, now you need a tune!

well heres the latest. got new exhaust fitted yesterday (sounded ****) got two resinators fitted today which sounds better. it definetly goes harder with extractors and high flow cats.

also my old man machined up the o2 spacers and they work a treat. so if anyone wants some just pm me.

Beauty Dan, getting there! :happy:

Beauty Dan, getting there! :happy:

you wouldnt be saying that if you heard it last night....


So..Dan....does it sound any different now..???

you wouldnt be saying that if you heard it last night....


So..Dan....does it sound any different now..???

same sound except for the tiny noise. thats still there but only at wot. will be fitting x piece next week.

I haven't read the whole thread (sorry Dan), but do you have a twin exhuast with no x pipe? As in, a pipe from each lot of headers straight to the back with no joins between the two at all?

I haven't read the whole thread (sorry Dan), but do you have a twin exhuast with no x pipe? As in, a pipe from each lot of headers straight to the back with no joins between the two at all?

correct. jason recommended getting one fitted over the traditional H join.

Without x pipe you will be down on power, and will sound like sh*t. Sound familiar?

Without x pipe you will be down on power, and will sound like sh*t. Sound familiar?

it goes a **** load better imo than before. but yes sounds ****y.

Will go better again with a proper x pipe. My mate's VX SS (spew) has a twin system with no xpipe, got less power now than before, and sounds really "farty." X pipe and extractors to be fitted soon though, fully h3ktik single leggers here we come!

pics, plz..... :)

pics, plz..... :)

im assuming of my exhuast. pics will come later.

Will go better again with a proper x pipe. My mate's VX SS (spew) has a twin system with no xpipe, got less power now than before, and sounds really "farty." X pipe and extractors to be fitted soon though, fully h3ktik single leggers here we come!


D&T Exhaust here in Adelaide developed a H-pipe which is similar to the X-pipe. The main point is that the two runners meet up after the engine. I was told it aids in scavanging (the -ve pressure after a pulse from one bank helps exhaust from the other bank along).

Finally got my extractors fitted today.

Dual exhausts as well.

Pics when I get a chance.

Spent the whole day at the exhaust shop, from 8.00am to 6.00pm.

The RPW extractors fitted perfectly, no dramas with them other than the known problem of the rear manifold nuts being hard to get at to remove.

But of course the shop had other customers (I was a late 'special' booking) and my car had to be rolled off the hoist and back on again a couple of times, which wasted about three hours.

Had a few problems with the O2 sensors though.

Only one sensor bung (in the rear extractor), no bung in the front extractor, so the exhaust guy had to stick one in the front extractor. Has to go in the 'tri Y' bit (the three into one piece), can't just stick it in one of the three pipes, not enough exhaust gas heat (the front two O2 sensors measure heat, the rear two measure oxygen, so I was told).

Then only one of the two front O2 sensor leads reached the bung, and it was the front one (the one he put in), not the rear one.

As only the rear extractor came with a bung why don't RPW explain that the existing O2 sensor lead won't reach it anyway?

And you can't just pinch one of the rear leads and use it on the front, the plugs are different.

Already knew I had to get two new O2 sensor kits to extend the wiring for the two rear sensors to the new mounting points behind the rear cat (see Foozrs pics).

But now I needed a third one. At $115 a pop mind you.

Anyway, the three O2 sensor kits didn't arrive until 4.00pm, so then it was panic stations to fit them up to the existing sensor plugs, and that way make extended leads as long as I could.

Turns out they were the same Bosch O2 sensor kit I used on the old TE, so at least I knew how to put them together. But it means cutting off and throwing away perfectly good O2 sensors and replacing them with new sensors, just to extend the leads.

Got them all done, only to find that with even the longest existing wiring the extended lead still wasn't long enough to reach from the front O2 plug to the rear bung. Have spacers for the rear bungs, again see Foozrs pics.

So only three of the four O2 sensors were refitted, two in the front (one in each extractor) and one in the rear behind the remaining cat. The fourth bung (also behind the cat) is 'bunged up' with one of the original (now cut off) O2 sensors for now, but with no wiring to it.

Have to find a way to extend the last wiring loom by another 60cm or so (about two feet for old farts like me), will check out some electronics stores. But I remember seeing somewhere that the O2 sensor wire is special stuff.

Took the car for a longish drive (about 300km) and of course after about 10k the CEL came on and has stayed on ever sense.

No detectable problems with the 'missing' O2 sensor other than the CEL.

The new twins at the rear look really schmick, the exhaust bloke did a great job.

Only problem is that a Berklee BS0655 doesn't fit on the passenger side (explained why elsewhere), so got two smaller Berklee 'Pex' mufflers instead (8" by 4" instead of 10" by 5"), hoping that would still give good flow without too much noise or drone, just as the BS0655 does.

Sorry to say it didn't quite work out as I had hoped.

Too loud at most revs, and too droney most of the time.

Funny thing though, at 60km/h in 5th gear (about 1,700 rpm) it's relatively quiet, and the same at 3,000 rpm in 5th gear (113 km/h). It's just that everywhere in between in 5th gear, and at any speed/revs in all other gears, it's too loud & too droney.

But the exhaust guy said if it was too loud and/or too droney to bring it back and he'll fit a straight through 'tube muffler' the full length (about 2 metres) of the main pipe (between the cat and the Y piece for the twins). I'll definitely be doing this, despite a further hit in the hip pocket.

As for performance, there are definite gains in the mid and high ranges. It revs out further and faster in all gears (well, only tested this for 1st, 2nd and 3rd, revving it out in 4th or 5th = bye bye license time!).

Possibly a small reduction in low rev torque, but more than compensated by the improved mid and high range response.

Will get it dynoed one day.

At least one thing that annoyed me before has gone - the 'wooshy' noise under acceleration, which I always suspected was caused by the two exhaust manifold pre-cats. Well I think it's gone, hard to be sure with the too loud exhaust noise now. I'll report back when I get the long central muffler installed.

The exhaust guy has eight more of the rear O2 sensor spacers, he had ten of them made up.

I highly recommend his work, and his prices are pretty fair too, so anyone thinking of fitting extractors to their 380 could do a lot worse. Especially now that he has used my car as a guinea pig. Any interested SA members PM me and I'll give you his details.

But there has to be a cheaper way of extending the O2 sensor wiring, without having to buy three Bosch kits at $115 a pop. Or go with only one O2 sensor and just live with a permanent CEL like some (but not me) seem happy to do.

KJ.

Well done mate, Im very interested in purchasing your old berklee but I live in NZ and freighting it here would be $$$ :( No one in NZ sells berklee and after reading all muffler forums I think this is the one to go for.

Specialk,

Sorry mate, already have a buyer for the old Berklee, teed up weeks ago.

KJ.

i extended mine for a whole 5 bucks. helps when your an apprentice auto elec. you cant solder join o2 sensor wirring as the wires need to breath. just simply get some 3mm wire long enough to reach (preferably same colours as o2 sensor wirring) and use crimp joiners. simple and cheap.

as for the fault codes that will be in the ecu, you may need to disconnect the battery as when i tried to erase the 4 codes that were in it via scan tool, one kept coming back. so i disconnected the battery for a minute and no codes.

ps does your system sound crap. and did you get an ex peice fitted.

But there has to be a cheaper way of extending the O2 sensor wiring, without having to buy three Bosch kits at $115 a pop. Or go with only one O2 sensor and just live with a permanent CEL like some (but not me) seem happy to do.

KJ.

Yep like mytsgt95 said just lengthen the cables, no need for all these kits you're buying.

What size pipe did you end up going with (main & duals) & did you change the cat too? I'm still not happy with the sound & volume of mine either & intend to get that looked at agaian when I get it sorted. I'm interested to see how it goes once you have this 2m tube muffler fitted.

The new system doesn't sound crap, just too loud. Not farty at all, those who like it 'sporty loud' would probably love it. But just too loud & droney for me. No X piece, it's not a separate system, it's a single pipe through to just behind the petrol tank, where a Y piece is attached and it branches left & right. Same as Foozrs I think. Will post up some pics soon.

Stayed with the stock main pipe for now (2 1/2"?), with 2" branches after the Y piece. Not massive, but I reckon there is little to be gained with bigger pipes, unless I replaced the standard rear cat with a high flow version, which I'm not planning to do any time soon.

Yep, in hindsight, should have just got some extra wire & crimp joiners for the O2 sensor extentions. About to head down the local Bunnings and look for that gear for the 4th sensor. If that doesn't work will disconnect the battery for a while and see if that gets rid of the CEL.

KJ.

The new system doesn't sound crap, just too loud. Not farty at all, those who like it 'sporty loud' would probably love it. But just too loud & droney for me. No X piece, it's not a separate system, it's a single pipe through to just behind the petrol tank, where a Y piece is attached and it branches left & right. Same as Foozrs I think. Will post up some pics soon.

Stayed with the stock main pipe for now (2 1/2"?), with 2" branches after the Y piece. Not massive, but I reckon there is little to be gained with bigger pipes, unless I replaced the standard rear cat with a high flow version, which I'm not planning to do any time soon.

Yep, in hindsight, should have just got some extra wire & crimp joiners for the O2 sensor extentions. About to head down the local Bunnings and look for that gear for the 4th sensor. If that doesn't work will disconnect the battery for a while and see if that gets rid of the CEL.

KJ.

That sounds similar to my original exhaust but I had two hotdog/resonators in the main pipe. If thats the case I think you will be happy with it once you put the tube muffler in. The main pipe is actually 60mm, between 2 1/4 & 2 1/2".

Mine got a ****load louder when I upgraded the pipe size & put the highflow cat on. Once again some people may like this as it doesn't sound really bad. I just don't like it as it is too loud for me but not as loud as my original effort which was rediculous & I didn't even want to drive it.

Found the wiring gear I needed at Supercrap, lengthened the 4th sensor lead by about a metre, and installed it.

Removed negative battery terminal lead, left it off for 5 minutes, put it back on again, hey presto CEL gone. Just had the usual hassle of having to reset all radio pre-sets & the clock, and lost all previous trip meter data.

Wasted about $300 on sensor kits, but all is good now except for the too loud exhaust.

Exhaust guy will ring around on Monday and find out availability & cost of the long tube muffler he has in mind.

Just to clarify, it's not a resonator, already have two of those in the pipe (the stock one and an extra) and they might as well not be there for all the good they do. It's a proper muffler, just a very long skinny one. Or so I'm told!

KJ.

So you have dual pipes out the back now?
If so, how did you cut out the second arch for the exhaust tip?

Grub,

Yep, dual pipes out the back.

I'll post up a pic pronto.

About the only thing I didn't see happen yesterday was when the exhaust guy cut the second hole, I was too busy wiring up O2 extension leads.

He traced a template on a piece of cardboard from the original hole, then used it to mark out the second hole. But I didn't see him cut it and I don't know what he used. He just said 'trust me, I have a special tool for this'. I'll ask him next time I see him (probably next week) exactly what he used.

No chamfer/recess like the original hole, just a simple cut. Looks good though, you have to get real close to see any difference between the two holes.

Remember, mine is a base model with the one piece rear bar and no lower insert.

KJ.

Just to clarify, it's not a resonator, already have two of those in the pipe (the stock one and an extra) and they might as well not be there for all the good they do. It's a proper muffler, just a very long skinny one. Or so I'm told!

KJ.

Ok well tell me how it goes, I might try to get one to fit mine if it is successful. Get brand, model etc

OK, first pics.

Nothing flash, it's raining here so stayed in the garage, and the car is filthy.

Nice!
Yes I have the base model bumper too, same as yours (probably easier to cut than the VRX/GT with that insert panel).
I figured the second cut could not have a recess (although mytsgt95 bought carbon-fibre inserts to rivet into the cut to form a new recesss). Probably doesn't matter so long as the edge cannot be seen from standing up a few feet away.
Still seems too complicated (re extractors) considering the extra wiring work, and CEL lights...
Also sounds a bit frightening, the guy saying "trust me" while preparing for slicing and dicing - but obviously the job was well done.

Grub,

As I said earlier, in hindsight extending the O2 sensor leads is cheap & relatively easy. Just wish I'd known this before I sprung for three unnecessary replacement kits.

The front extractor sensor lead is a straight swap, no need to extend it at all. But you'll probably have to get a bung welded into the front extractor, seems the RPW front extractors don't come with a bung. Pretty simple, only took my exhaust guy 15 minutes to do it.

With the other three sensor leads you'll need about 20 metres of 2mm or 3mm 10 amp auto wire. The original sensor wires are 2mm, but I couldn't find any 2mm this morning so I bought 3mm.

Then you'll need to extend the rear most lead by about two metres and the other two by about 1.5 metres. At four wires for each lead works out to 20 metres all up. You could probably get away with shorter extensions than that but better to be too long than too short, otherwise you're looking at new sensor kits.

Strip about 1cm of the plastic cover from each wire (four wires by two ends by twice for each lead = 16 wires and eight joins for each lead) then use standard 3mm wire crimp joiners. A crimping tool comes in handy for both the wire stripping and crimping. Sounds like a lot of work but it took clumsy klutz me only 20 minutes to do one lead, with no previoius wire joining experience, so it should take an hour or less to do all three. Just make sure you join like to like - each lead has two white, one black & one grey wire.

I then wrapped the whole thing in gaffer tape and then electrical insulation tape.

So all up it should take about 2 hours to do all three leads, for a total cost of less than $60.

Also, I played safe the same as Fooz and decided from the start to reconnect all four sensors. But it seems you can maybe get away with reconnecting only the front two sensors, and then just ignore the CEL or reset the ECU to remove it. Haven't heard any reports yet of missing rear sensors causing problems like stuffed up AFRs, rough running, limp home mode etc.

KJ.

But it seems you can maybe get away with reconnecting only the front two sensors, and then just ignore the CEL or reset the ECU to remove it. Haven't heard any reports yet of missing rear sensors causing problems like stuffed up AFRs, rough running, limp home mode etc.

KJ.

Resetting the ecu will clear the CEL but it will come straight back unless you keep the rear two sensors in circuit with the extenders in place. Your right also, it won't affect the drivability of the car, you just get that anoying light telling you your emmissions aren't good.

Yep, the GF is forever telling me that my (nocturnal) emissions aren't good, I don't need a CEL to tell me that!

Well done, KJ!

Looking forward to a dyno reading. The dual tail pipes look schmick. :thumbsup:

Do you notice much extra vibration in the cabin?

The cable extensions can't be soldered (as mytsgt95 said) - I don't understand this.

Well done, KJ!

Looking forward to a dyno reading. The dual tail pipes look schmick. :thumbsup:

Do you notice much extra vibration in the cabin?

The cable extensions can't be soldered (as mytsgt95 said) - I don't understand this.



as i understand the wires need to breath in order to give a correct reading. its what ive been tought to do.

as i understand the wires need to breath in order to give a correct reading. its what ive been tought to do.

You are correct...a crimped connection can be much stronger and longer lasting than a soldered connection, and have the same electrical resistance of the equivalent length of wire. A properly done crimp is also air-tight as well, not allowing oxidation to degrade it over time.

Well done, KJ!

Looking forward to a dyno reading. The dual tail pipes look schmick. :thumbsup:

Do you notice much extra vibration in the cabin?

The cable extensions can't be soldered (as mytsgt95 said) - I don't understand this.

Yep, there is definitely some extra vibration in the cabin, but I reckon it's to do with the exhaust resonance (and in a way related to the loudness of the exhaust) and not the extractors. It's also partly down to the car being intrinsically very quiet and smooth, so any 'new' vibration is not masked by anything else and it's very noticable.

It's most noticable when accelerating hard from low revs, especially between 2,000 & 3,000 rpm.

I'm expecting that the new 'long tube' muffler will fix this.

Another thing that I noticed from the outside (when the exhaust guy gave it a few revs) but not so much from the inside is the wicked induction noise when the revs go over 4,000. Seems the extractors are really helping it to pull more air through at higher revs, in conjuction with the basic intake mods I've already made. As I said earlier, it seems to pull a lot harder now high in the rev range. You could say it's finally breathing like it is supposed to, rather than being choked by the stock exhaust and intake set up.

I'm now talking to the exhaust guy about a Unichip Q, he reckons he has contacts where they are made and can maybe get me one at a good price. Tune it for 98 RON and advance the timing by 6 degrees and it should really fly. Then the big problem will be traction and wheelspin! Can't afford a Quaife LSD yet, but it's on the wish list.

KJ.

Only problem is that a Berklee BS0655 doesn't fit on the passenger side (explained why elsewhere), so got two smaller Berklee 'Pex' mufflers instead (8" by 4" instead of 10" by 5"), hoping that would still give good flow without too much noise or drone, just as the BS0655 does.


KJ. I've been doing some muffler research & wondered why the Berklee didn't fit on the passenger side? I have 10" x 5" x 14" Supercats (triflow, straight through were stupid loud) now & I think I could fit a couple of 20" same dimensions in there by slicing a bit of a plastic guard on the passenger side. The 20" mufflers are a hell of a lot quieter & with the dual outlets will not restrict horsepower (for me anyway). I have been looking at the Dynomax mufflers & the lossfree horsepower for a dual 2 1/4" exhaust is 338HP for the 14" & 368HP for the 20". The 2" rears you are running with an 8" x 4" x 14" muffler (Dynomax specs) is 146HP (~110KW) so you have plenty of restriction there. (That is a triflow muffler, they don't list a straight through that small so if it is it's probably ok)

They also do a 2 1/2" glasspack straight through tube muffler which is 45" long which maybe what your exhaust installer was thinking about?

well i made up an x piece yesterday and got it fitted today. what a difference it makes. exhaust is quiter, sounds great and the car is more perky. its not overly load.

i have

rpw extractors
2 1/4 full length twin system
2 x high flow cat
2 x resenator
custom x piece
2 x magnaflow muffler

well i made up an x piece yesterday and got it fitted today. what a difference it makes. exhaust is quiter, sounds great and the car is more perky. its not overly load.

i have

rpw extractors
2 1/4 full length twin system
2 x high flow cat
2 x resenator
custom x piece
2 x magnaflow muffler

Which magnaflow mufflers did you use?

this one

link (http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=main&id=8134)

well i made up an x piece yesterday and got it fitted today. what a difference it makes. exhaust is quiter, sounds great and the car is more perky. its not overly load.

i have

rpw extractors
2 1/4 full length twin system
2 x high flow cat
2 x resenator
custom x piece
2 x magnaflow muffler


Hey Dan told ya thats what it needed to tame down that god awful sound it had. Good to hear that it seems better, will give my opinion when i hear it next :happy:

Well couldnt of got any louder lol. Good to hear that it sounds a lot better :happy:



well i made up an x piece yesterday and got it fitted today. what a difference it makes. exhaust is quiter, sounds great and the car is more perky. its not overly load.

i have

rpw extractors
2 1/4 full length twin system
2 x high flow cat
2 x resenator
custom x piece
2 x magnaflow muffler

Only problem is that a Berklee BS0655 doesn't fit on the passenger side.

I was wondering why the Berklee didn't fit on the passenger side? I have two 10" x 5" x 14" Supercats (triflow design, straight through were stupid loud) now & I think I could fit a couple of 20" long same dimensions in there by slicing a bit of a plastic guard on the passenger side. The 20" triflow mufflers would be are a hell of a lot quieter & with the dual outlets will not restrict horsepower (for me anyway).


But the exhaust guy said if it was too loud and/or too droney to bring it back and he'll fit a straight through 'tube muffler' the full length (about 2 metres) of the main pipe (between the cat and the Y piece for the twins)...................I'll report back when I get the long central muffler installed.

Any news on this yet? Dynomax do a 2 1/2" glasspack straight through tube muffler which is 45" long which maybe what your exhaust installer was thinking about?

Fooz,

The BS0655 doesn't fit on the passenger side because of the fuel line cover/protector. It sticks down too far, and the only way to fitthe BS0655 would be to have it hanging very low, too low, or cut a huge chunk out of the bar. If you hung it low then you would also need to hang the other side low so that the two mufflers lined up, otherwise it would look stupid. The BS0655 I put on the drivers side only just fitted between the suspension and the bar, it was very tight with no more than a centimetre to spare at each end.

No news on the tube muffler yet, will ring the exhaust guy later today for an update.

KJ.

Fooz,

The BS0655 doesn't fit on the passenger side because of the fuel line cover/protector. It sticks down too far, and the only way to fitthe BS0655 would be to have it hanging very low, too low, or cut a huge chunk out of the bar. If you hung it low then you would also need to hang the other side low so that the two mufflers lined up, otherwise it would look stupid. The BS0655 I put on the drivers side only just fitted between the suspension and the bar, it was very tight with no more than a centimetre to spare at each end.

No news on the tube muffler yet, will ring the exhaust guy later today for an update.

KJ.

Ok. I had a quick look the other day & it looked like some of that plastic fuel filler guard could be cut away. I'll get her up on jacks on the weekend & have a good look coz if I could fit the longer mufflers both sides it would solve the noise problem.

Still keen to see how you go with the long tube muffler.

Fooz,

By the way, thanks for all your help & advice with extractors & O2 sensor issues. Everything is good on that front for me now, with all four O2 sensors wired up and no CEL. I'm liking the performance increase more and more every day, it's a real animal now. Just gotta get rid of the drone.

KJ.

well i made up an x piece yesterday and got it fitted today. what a difference it makes. exhaust is quiter, sounds great and the car is more perky. its not overly load.

i have

rpw extractors
2 1/4 full length twin system
2 x high flow cat
2 x resenator
custom x piece
2 x magnaflow muffler

Pic of X piece? Location? What rpm does it work best against?

Fooz,

By the way, thanks for all your help & advice with extractors & O2 sensor issues. Everything is good on that front for me now, with all four O2 sensors wired up and no CEL. I'm liking the performance increase more and more every day, it's a real animal now.
KJ.
No probs, glad some others are now producing some good power. Once you get the chip done & tuned for 98 you will be real happy :happy:



Just gotta get rid of the drone.KJ.
This will be the hard part! :think:

No probs, glad some others are now producing some good power. Once you get the chip done & tuned for 98 you will be real happy :happy:



This will be the hard part! :think:

Which Berkley muff are you all talking about, not that huge useless thing with the resonance chamber in it middle??? That's the Dronemaster1000. When you say 'resonators' are we talking a FULL round barrelled, square ended muffler barrel or a hotdog - sleek, contoured, pretty well useless. You will need a LONG 12"+ round barrelled resonator/centre muffler with internal louvred pipe and full glass pack if you want to kill your drone.

Pic of X piece? Location? What rpm does it work best against?

Ian, if you heard Dans car then you would know exactly why his car needed one....It sound like two 3cylinder motorbikes lol

Seriously though, it was not very nice in its sound. Very very farty and raspy but then i guess thats what ya can expect when ya put a "full" twin system on a V6 (so one pipe front to back per bank of 3 cylinders) the fitment of the "X" pipe should merge the gases and combine the sound so toning down the sound nicely.

Which Berkley muff are you all talking about, not that huge useless thing with the resonance chamber in it middle??? That's the Dronemaster1000. When you say 'resonators' are we talking a FULL round barrelled, square ended muffler barrel or a hotdog - sleek, contoured, pretty well useless. You will need a LONG 12"+ round barrelled resonator/centre muffler with internal louvred pipe and full glass pack if you want to kill your drone.

The Berklee they are referring to is a straight through at the rear.

Do you think a 2 1/2" Straight through centre muffler might help as I think all of us big bore 380 owners have drone/noise problems?

Pic of X piece? Location? What rpm does it work best against?

i just copied this magnaflow x piece.

link (http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=main&id=8367)

its located just before the two split up to go pver the rear axle. dont have pics.

The Berklee they are referring to is a straight through at the rear.

Do you think a 2 1/2" Straight through centre muffler might help as I think all of us big bore 380 owners have drone/noise problems?

my new exhaust doesnt seem to have much / any drone.

my new exhaust doesnt seem to have much / any drone.

:gtfoslap: Yours is a bit unique though.........

Once you get into 2 1/2 to 3" drone is inevitable I think :think:

:gtfoslap: Yours is a bit unique though.........

Once you get into 2 1/2 to 3" drone is inevitable I think :think:

ill take mine for a decent drive 2mora and let yas know how much drone of got ive only driven it a couple times since the x pipe went on. the times ive driven it havent had any drone.

ill take mine for a decent drive 2mora and let yas know how much drone of got ive only driven it a couple times since the x pipe went on. the times ive driven it havent had any drone.

I actually wish I could get mine to sound like it did before the extractors went on & the new cat & bigger exhaust but I guess if you want flow you got to have noise.

Ian, if you heard Dans car then you would know exactly why his car needed one....It sound like two 3cylinder motorbikes lol

Seriously though, it was not very nice in its sound. Very very farty and raspy but then i guess thats what ya can expect when ya put a "full" twin system on a V6 (so one pipe front to back per bank of 3 cylinders) the fitment of the "X" pipe should merge the gases and combine the sound so toning down the sound nicely.

I didn't do the thread justice and read the whole saga; you've definately got to have a cross-over/balance pipe of some description if you run full twins. Power goes up too. I heard the XR8 aftermarket systems have spiralled pipe after their balance pipes. Good for an extra 15kw! Like a Hyclone in your exhaust I supose.

well today took my car for a decent drive today and only a very slight drone at cruise. only can be herd without the stereo on. so im happy with it.

Today had the two resonators in the main pipe replaced with two smallish 'tube' mufflers.

But the drone is still there. Not as bad as it was, but still enough to be annoying.

The exhaust guy reckons give it a week or two for the glass pack in the mufflers to loosen a bit and it might improve.

But I doubt it.

Will take it back in two weeks and see what else I can try.

KJ.

Ive always wondered how restrictive the 3rd cat really is??? Although its elligal to remove You could replace it with a resonator and no body would ever Know. We have had this debate on a forum before and to my knowlege only one person has tried this. Has anyone else??? This would not help your drone Im thinking of performance increase.

A few people have removed that third cat completely. Knotched did, and I think Fooz did too.
When I asked my exhaust shop (who fitted the rear muffler) the guy smiled and said Don't - then explained the fines involved if caught.
However, you can replace the cat with a better one. I think a few people have done that, but is it any better?

I hear ya Grubco, but does anyone take notice of such things? I wonder how you could get caught.

I hear ya Grubco, but does anyone take notice of such things? I wonder how you could get caught.

I doubt anyone would ever notice, providing the car doesn't run rough, billow smoke, or sound too loud. Cops and rego checks never look under there.
If I was still a teenager, I'd do it... but I'm over such semi-illegal mods. I don't mind replacing the cat if those hi-flo ones are significantly better.

ok i want to clear something up. what do use class as exhaust drone. hearing the exhaust at cruise or at acceleration.

ok i want to clear something up. what do use class as exhaust drone. hearing the exhaust at cruise or at acceleration.

At certain revs, you get a very deep, constant noise that seems to resonate throughout the cabin. When you drive within that rev range for a period of time, the sound can become that bad it will give you a headache. So its usually cruising that you get droning.

At certain revs, you get a very deep, constant noise that seems to resonate throughout the cabin. When you drive within that rev range for a period of time, the sound can become that bad it will give you a headache. So its usually cruising that you get droning.

ok coz i class exhaust drone as noise at cruise eg between 1200-1800rpm with little load.

I don't see what's illegal about removing the third cat. It was placed there to help engine tuning only. The car will still pass its emission targets.
If anyone is worried about that then put your illegal, non compliant with ADRs, intake back to standard.

Personally I'm not worried what people chose to do with their car (remove a cat or run with no mufflers, etc); I'm definately not getting on my high horse. I just pointed out that my exhaust shop wouldn't touch it (even after explaining the posts here, to him) and I couldn't be bothered finding one that would.
As for the intake I'm happy with that as it looks stock (apart from the missing snorkel).

I don't see what's illegal about removing the third cat. It was placed there to help engine tuning only. The car will still pass its emission targets.
If anyone is worried about that then put your illegal, non compliant with ADRs, intake back to standard.

Thats a good point, Any idea what the 3rd cat was suppost to acheive tuning wise??? Was it to help bottom end torque.

Thats a good point, Any idea what the 3rd cat was suppost to acheive tuning wise??? Was it to help bottom end torque.

The third cat was used as a "after" cat to clean up anything that may have been missed by the primary cats.

You have to remember that the car manufacturer has to make the car last the 3yrs/100000kms of its warrenty period and that includes emissions compliance (if the car is left stock engine wise)

If the fuel companies weren't such tight ****'s we'd not have to worry about this cat crap.Apparently fuel can be catalytic converted before it even gets to the pump but they decided to make us pay for it instead + a loss of power! Also a car running ULP and no cats is supposedly way more toxic than any leaded car ever was, so maybe leave one cat in I reckon.

If the fuel companies weren't such tight ****'s we'd not have to worry about this cat crap.Apparently fuel can be catalytic converted before it even gets to the pump but they decided to make us pay for it instead + a loss of power! Also a car running ULP and no cats is supposedly way more toxic than any leaded car ever was, so maybe leave one cat in I reckon.

What?

Catalytic cracking is a process of breaking long chain molecules into smaller ones. Catalytic converters convert nitrogen oxides to nitrogen and oxygen, carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide (less toxic) and finally unburnt fuel to carbon dioxide and water... The nitrogen comes from the air, and I highly doubt that is in the petrol companies control. Carbon monoxide and unburnt fuel is a result of incomplete combustion, the easy fix here is to use a shorter molecule chain hydrocarbon such as methanol, but that's more expensive.

Lead is more dangerous than all of those because it will build up in streams/plants/animals/us, however the loss of power is attributed to a lower octane rating (hence tuning) and the restrictive cat that your car manufacturer installed. Leaded petrol has all the same problems normal petrol does, plus it destroys cat converters so those harmful chemicals can never be removed.

Just repeating what I've read in magazine articles etc, I'm no expert.Maybe the article I read was suggesting that the fuel should be better refined (expensive for oil co's)and therefore not need cats.Cleaner fuel in= less emissions out I guess?Who do you believe though? Some say that these restrictive cat exhausts reduce power and increase fuel consumption (better for oil co's yes?) thus producing more greenhouse gases than they should.Have the guys on this forum with free flowing exhausts(extractors,better flowing cats)seen better economy and power? If all this were true then surely we could have far more efficient engines,that is more power better economy and less emissions, than we currently do?Were does ethanol E85 fit in all this?The oil co's are happy to ream us at the pump price wise so why wouldn't they ream us elsewhere?Phew,alot of question marks there!

A few people have removed that third cat completely. Knotched did, and I think Fooz did too.When I asked my exhaust shop (who fitted the rear muffler) the guy smiled and said Don't - then explained the fines involved if caught.
However, you can replace the cat with a better one. I think a few people have done that, but is it any better?

Just for the record I run a 3" metal cat & no precats because of my extractors.

At certain revs, you get a very deep, constant noise that seems to resonate throughout the cabin. When you drive within that rev range for a period of time, the sound can become that bad it will give you a headache. So its usually cruising that you get droning.

Agreed.

My current drone is worst between 2,000 rpm & 2,700 rpm, which of course is right in the cruising zone most times. Under 2,000 rpm is fairly quiet in all gears, over 2,700 rpm is loudish but no resonance = minimal drone. It's really bad at 60km/h in 4th gear = 2,000 rpm, so now I cruise at 60km/h in 5th gear = 1,700 rpm. I never used to use 5th around town like this, always considered the engine was labouring at such low revs and not much response without downchanging (compared to even 4th gear), but I now find that the car handles 60km/h in 5th gear really well. Doesn't labour at all, will still pull up hills OK (but then the resonance kicks in). It handles low revs in 5th gear infinitely better than my old TE 3.0 manual did, seems to have at least twice as much torque low down. And for a quick squirt of acceleration it's easy enough to downchange to 3rd gear in about 1 to 2 seconds, or even 2nd gear if I really want to get moving. But a 5th to 2nd downchange at 60km/h & flooring it = wheelspin or torque steer in big doses!

KJ.

Today had the two resonators in the main pipe replaced with two smallish 'tube' mufflers.

But the drone is still there. Not as bad as it was, but still enough to be annoying.

The exhaust guy reckons give it a week or two for the glass pack in the mufflers to loosen a bit and it might improve.

But I doubt it.

Will take it back in two weeks and see what else I can try.

KJ.

So couldn't your exhaust guy get the extra long tube muffler? I'm going to see what I can do with mine before it goes back on the dyno, would like to get it tuned with the final quieter setup installed. Will keep you posted on my thoughts & outcome.

Fooz,

The 'long tube muffler' turned out to be a bit of a furphy, appears there is no such thing. Instead he fitted the two biggest (as in cross section) circular free flowing (i.e. not baffled) mufflers he could, in the exhaust pipe 'tunnel', one behind the other. But as the tunnel is not that big, the mufflers aren't very wide either, about 5" diameter I reckon. They are proper mufflers, not resonators. But they still didn't get rid of the dreaded drone.

I've done a little more research, including these forums, and it looks like my best chance is to scrap the two existing Berklee Pex 8" x 5" x 14" mufflers and replace them with Magnaflow mufflers, the biggest that will fit. The ideal size I think is 10" x 5" x 18" (from memory the Berklee BS0655 is 10" x 6" x 20" but that won't fit on the passenger side) but it seems that Magnaflow don't come in this size, and the nearest I can get which will fit is 9" x 4" x 18".

And then they cost $270 each from Best Mufflers, so I'm looking at $600+ fitted, on top of the nearly $2,200 I've already spent on the exhaust system.

KJ.

If the fuel companies weren't such tight ****'s we'd not have to worry about this cat crap.Apparently fuel can be catalytic converted before it even gets to the pump but they decided to make us pay for it instead + a loss of power! Also a car running ULP and no cats is supposedly way more toxic than any leaded car ever was, so maybe leave one cat in I reckon.

The good old lead/ no lead debate! Who to believe?

Here are some facts:

More crude is consumed refining unleaded, and the higher the octane the more crude wasted to the refining (heating/cracking) process. So more crude in but less petrol out. Some experts want to ban anything higher than 91RON to reduce greenhouse emissions from refinerys. That would mean no more 95, 98 or 100 octane.

Products like benzol, toluol, xylene are added to boost octane back to the levels of leaded days. These are toxic, and some like benzol are cancer causing.

Lead was removed from petrol because it wrecks CATs. To get the nasties out of ex gases CATs are the easiest way to go. For the politicians and general public to accept the costs involved they had to be convinced that lead was bad so the spin doctors were brought in en mass to sell the lead is bad message and make the changeover costs more palatable.

Don't get me wrong, TEL is highly toxic and old guys like me have most likely done themselves harm handling leaded fuel, washing parts in it, sucking on fuel lines and carbs etc. However piston aircraft still fly with heavily leaded fuel, innocuously called LL (low lead) but at 2-2.7gm/ltr it has about 3-4x the lead of what we were burning in our old cars. (the old full lead Avgas was double that). However the evidence that lead baked by the combustion process is highly toxic is quite shaky according to some chemists.

Whatever the actual truth we are stuck with unleaded and CATs.

Cheers,
Alan

Fooz,

The 'long tube muffler' turned out to be a bit of a furphy, appears there is no such thing. Instead he fitted the two biggest (as in cross section) circular free flowing (i.e. not baffled) mufflers he could, in the exhaust pipe 'tunnel', one behind the other. But as the tunnel is not that big, the mufflers aren't very wide either, about 5" diameter I reckon. They are proper mufflers, not resonators. But they still didn't get rid of the dreaded drone.

I've done a little more research, including these forums, and it looks like my best chance is to scrap the two existing Berklee Pex 8" x 5" x 14" mufflers and replace them with Magnaflow mufflers, the biggest that will fit. The ideal size I think is 10" x 5" x 18" (from memory the Berklee BS0655 is 10" x 6" x 20" but that won't fit on the passenger side) but it seems that Magnaflow don't come in this size, and the nearest I can get which will fit is 9" x 4" x 18".

And then they cost $270 each from Best Mufflers, so I'm looking at $600+ fitted, on top of the nearly $2,200 I've already spent on the exhaust system.

KJ.

There is a long tube muffler (Shell length 40", overall length 45", 4" diameter, 2.5" in/out) that Thrush make & is also marketed under the Dynomax brand. It may be that whoever imports Dynomax doesn't have that particular model but I have seen them on ebay & you can buy them online if you want to pay freight from the US.

Do you think the 18" mufflers will fit whereas the 20's won't?

I think the way to go is to get the biggest rear mufflers that will fit & maybe this Dynomax tube if it is still a bit loud. At least with the twin outlets you can probably go triflow design instead of straight through & will still get the high flow.

Thanks for the info Alan.

There is a long tube muffler (Shell length 40", overall length 45", 4" diameter, 2.5" in/out) that Thrush make & is also marketed under the Dynomax brand. It may be that whoever imports Dynomax doesn't have that particular model but I have seen them on ebay & you can buy them online if you want to pay freight from the US.

Do you think the 18" mufflers will fit whereas the 20's won't?

I think the way to go is to get the biggest rear mufflers that will fit & maybe this Dynomax tube if it is still a bit loud. At least with the twin outlets you can probably go triflow design instead of straight through & will still get the high flow.

Have you guys investigated GONZO pipes in Queensland.I think they make those tube mufflers you are after.AAA exhaust sell'em here in south oz from memory too KJ.

also my old man machined up the o2 spacers and they work a treat. so if anyone wants some just pm me.

Mmm

Thinking about getting extractors. How many of the extenders will I need and how much?

Mmm

How many will I need and how much?

:doubt:

Seriously, I suggest you research them first to find out what they do.

whats the average cost for a Hi flow Cat.

:doubt:

Seriously, I suggest you research them first to find out what they do.

Im talking about the o2 sensors extendors. I believe there is 4 of them I need. or did I only need them for the back two?

Im talking about the o2 sensors extendors.

Gotcha, my apologies.

may be wrong but i think mytsgt95 said that you could just use a certain kind of off the shelf wire? should probably pm him about it, rather than buying 4 sensor packs like someone else did!

Mmm

Thinking about getting extractors. How many will I need and how much?

ull need 2 o2 sensor spacers. ill get a price for ya.

as for the wiring to extend the o2 sensor leads just get some 3mm wire in the same colour as whats on the o2 leads. (i think 2x white, 1x grey and 1xblack for each lead)

Mmm

Thinking about getting extractors. How many of the extenders will I need and how much?

Mr G,

Have a look at my post, last post on page 7 of this thread. Should give you all the info you need for extending the O2 sensors without much cost. You need to extend three of the four sensors. As for the two spacers you will need, if mytsgt95 can't help my exhaust guy has eight of them & I can ask him about the cost of two of them, if he's willing to sell them.

KJ.

Finally got the dual system sorted out today, now sounds good (and still goes like stink) with almost no drone.

The exhaust guy replaced the smallish Berklee Pex mufflers with the stock mufflers from a VE Commodore SV6 (which comes with a dual system as standard). They are made by Walker/Lukey and are a true straight through design. Unfortunatley he couldn't get just the cans (the bare mufflers) from Walker, he had to buy the full 'kit' including mounting brackets and inlet pipe for the Crummydore, so it cost me a little extra. But still a lot less than a pair of Magnaflows, which probably wouldn't have got rid of the drone anyway.

Didn't give it a full test, that will be tomorrow, but at a constant 2,000 rpm (such as 60km/h in 4th gear) where it used to drone like mad, there is now only the faintest hint of drone. And no resonance or vibration at all.

So for other 380 owners looking at muffler solutions for a dual system, this is worth considering, especially if you can score a pair of these mufflers from a wrecker (I paid for brand new ones).

Now the good news from RPW.

They rang me last week to ask about how I went with extractors and in particular the O2 sensors, extended wiring, CEL etc. I couldn't talk much (at work) so I followed up with an email.

I explained what I did and how I got it all sorted in the end, but at extra cost. See earlier posts in this thread.

They emailed me back and here is their reply (I haven't corrected the many typos!):

"Glad to hear that you eventually had it working.

You are correct that hte front header didn't have an o2 sensor fitting on it, we found this out ourselves when we went to fit up a kit ourselves.

We hve since redesigned the kits with the fitment of an O2 sensor in the front header at the top and one at the bottme of the front header, and a second O2 sensor fitting at the top of the rear headers.

This way no more extending of O2 sensor wiring. But the rear O2 sensors will still need the extenders fitted which will be part of our kits in the future.

THe car we fitted up here, I was able to use the front two origonal o2 sensors, and we extended the wiring on the rear two to after the cat with extenders and it worked great."

So in theory, down the track a bit their kit will include all the bits & pieces needed. But not real clear on extended wiring for the rear two sensors. And it will probably cost a bit more, hard to tell how much more.

My exhaust guy told me today that a few weeks ago he rang Liverpool Exhausts in Sydney, who make the 380 extractors, and apparently they make the extractors 'under licence' from RPW on a jig designed/specified by RPW, and they don't supply them to the general public, otherwise that would be in breach of their contract with RPW.

KJ.

Finally got the dual system sorted out today, now sounds good (and still goes like stink) with almost no drone.

The exhaust guy replaced the smallish Berklee Pex mufflers with the stock mufflers from a VE Commodore SV6 (which comes with a dual system as standard). They are made by Walker/Lukey and are a true straight through design. Unfortunatley he couldn't get just the cans (the bare mufflers) from Walker, he had to buy the full 'kit' including mounting brackets and inlet pipe for the Crummydore, so it cost me a little extra. But still a lot less than a pair of Magnaflows, which probably wouldn't have got rid of the drone anyway.

Didn't give it a full test, that will be tomorrow, but at a constant 2,000 rpm (such as 60km/h in 4th gear) where it used to drone like mad, there is now only the faintest hint of drone. And no resonance or vibration at all.

So for other 380 owners looking at muffler solutions for a dual system, this is worth considering, especially if you can score a pair of these mufflers from a wrecker (I paid for brand new ones).

Now the good news from RPW.

They rang me last week to ask about how I went with extractors and in particular the O2 sensors, extended wiring, CEL etc. I couldn't talk much (at work) so I followed up with an email.

I explained what I did and how I got it all sorted in the end, but at extra cost. See earlier posts in this thread.

They emailed me back and here is their reply (I haven't corrected the many typos!):

"Glad to hear that you eventually had it working.

You are correct that hte front header didn't have an o2 sensor fitting on it, we found this out ourselves when we went to fit up a kit ourselves.

We hve since redesigned the kits with the fitment of an O2 sensor in the front header at the top and one at the bottme of the front header, and a second O2 sensor fitting at the top of the rear headers.

This way no more extending of O2 sensor wiring. But the rear O2 sensors will still need the extenders fitted which will be part of our kits in the future.

THe car we fitted up here, I was able to use the front two origonal o2 sensors, and we extended the wiring on the rear two to after the cat with extenders and it worked great."

So in theory, down the track a bit their kit will include all the bits & pieces needed. But not real clear on extended wiring for the rear two sensors. And it will probably cost a bit more, hard to tell how much more.

My exhaust guy told me today that a few weeks ago he rang Liverpool Exhausts in Sydney, who make the 380 extractors, and apparently they make the extractors 'under licence' from RPW on a jig designed/specified by RPW, and they don't supply them to the general public, otherwise that would be in breach of their contract with RPW.





KJ.

good news. i also recieved a call from rpw about the extractors. told them the same as you.

good news. i also recieved a call from rpw about the extractors. told them the same as you.

They must be on drugs over there, I told them nearly two years ago & now they decide to do something about it :nuts:

Finally got the dual system sorted out today, now sounds good (and still goes like stink) with almost no drone.

The exhaust guy replaced the smallish Berklee Pex mufflers with the stock mufflers from a VE Commodore SV6 (which comes with a dual system as standard). They are made by Walker/Lukey and are a true straight through design. Unfortunatley he couldn't get just the cans (the bare mufflers) from Walker, he had to buy the full 'kit' including mounting brackets and inlet pipe for the Crummydore, so it cost me a little extra. But still a lot less than a pair of Magnaflows, which probably wouldn't have got rid of the drone anyway.

Didn't give it a full test, that will be tomorrow, but at a constant 2,000 rpm (such as 60km/h in 4th gear) where it used to drone like mad, there is now only the faintest hint of drone. And no resonance or vibration at all.

So for other 380 owners looking at muffler solutions for a dual system, this is worth considering, especially if you can score a pair of these mufflers from a wrecker (I paid for brand new ones).

Now the good news from RPW.

They rang me last week to ask about how I went with extractors and in particular the O2 sensors, extended wiring, CEL etc. I couldn't talk much (at work) so I followed up with an email.

I explained what I did and how I got it all sorted in the end, but at extra cost. See earlier posts in this thread.

They emailed me back and here is their reply (I haven't corrected the many typos!):

"Glad to hear that you eventually had it working.

You are correct that hte front header didn't have an o2 sensor fitting on it, we found this out ourselves when we went to fit up a kit ourselves.

We hve since redesigned the kits with the fitment of an O2 sensor in the front header at the top and one at the bottme of the front header, and a second O2 sensor fitting at the top of the rear headers.

This way no more extending of O2 sensor wiring. But the rear O2 sensors will still need the extenders fitted which will be part of our kits in the future.

THe car we fitted up here, I was able to use the front two origonal o2 sensors, and we extended the wiring on the rear two to after the cat with extenders and it worked great."

So in theory, down the track a bit their kit will include all the bits & pieces needed. But not real clear on extended wiring for the rear two sensors. And it will probably cost a bit more, hard to tell how much more.

My exhaust guy told me today that a few weeks ago he rang Liverpool Exhausts in Sydney, who make the 380 extractors, and apparently they make the extractors 'under licence' from RPW on a jig designed/specified by RPW, and they don't supply them to the general public, otherwise that would be in breach of their contract with RPW.

KJ.

KJ thats awesome. Is it still loud or just the drone gone? I'll have to look into this myself.

Fooz,

It's a fair bit quieter than it was, but still sporty. A bit louder than with the Berklee BS0655 under load or when you give it the berries, but much the same at cruise where there is little more than a gentle background burble. But I suspect the extra noise (over the Berklee BS0655) may be down solely to the fitting of the extractors and the removal of the two pre-cats. And so little drone it's almost none. I'm very happy now with the sound.

Made another little mod this morning which seems to have boosted top end power a little.

A few months ago I replaced the standard inserts in the bottom of the front bar (where the driving lights go on up-spec models) with those designed for driving lights. That way I had a nice neat round hole directing air to the cut end of the lower airbox resonator.

Today I got my exhaust guy to fit a piece of 90 degree bend 76mm silicon rubber tubing (the stuff designed for CAI installations) from the end of the cut resonator to the driving light surround hole. Took a bit of mucking about getting it to fit over the cut end of the resonator, had to recut the resonator a little and cut a slot in the tubing then screw and tape it on. Also had to make up a short piece of metal piping from the driving light surround hole, so that it wedged nice and tight in the hole and the end of the silicon tube fitted over the other end. Took about an hour to do and he charged me nothing.

So now instead of the cut lower resonator just sucking air at higher revs, air is now being forced in (at higher speeds) as with a CAI system. And it looks stock as rock from the engine bay.

KJ.

Fooz,

It's a fair bit quieter than it was, but still sporty. A bit louder than with the Berklee BS0655 under load or when you give it the berries, but much the same at cruise where there is little more than a gentle background burble. But I suspect the extra noise (over the Berklee BS0655) may be down solely to the fitting of the extractors and the removal of the two pre-cats. And so little drone it's almost none. I'm very happy now with the sound.

Made another little mod this morning which seems to have boosted top end power a little.

A few months ago I replaced the standard inserts in the bottom of the front bar (where the driving lights go on up-spec models) with those designed for driving lights. That way I had a nice neat round hole directing air to the cut end of the lower airbox resonator.

Today I got my exhaust guy to fit a piece of 90 degree bend 76mm silicon rubber tubing (the stuff designed for CAI installations) from the end of the cut resonator to the driving light surround hole. Took a bit of mucking about getting it to fit over the cut end of the resonator, had to recut the resonator a little and cut a slot in the tubing then screw and tape it on. Also had to make up a short piece of metal piping from the driving light surround hole, so that it wedged nice and tight in the hole and the end of the silicon tube fitted over the other end. Took about an hour to do and he charged me nothing.

So now instead of the cut lower resonator just sucking air at higher revs, air is now being forced in (at higher speeds) as with a CAI system. And it looks stock as rock from the engine bay.

KJ.

Ok cool, will definitely look into this when I get the blower back on before I get my tune done.

Your resonator mod sounds good & you say a noticable increase up top just from the tubing .... excellent. If you want to get more adventurous you should try a pod like mine.

KJ,

Great job, mate, for this research and outcome 10/10!

It's a win for us and RPW because more of us are likely to buy a complete kit with the O2 sensor sorted.

I can't believe the SV6 is fitted with straight thru's as standard - You utter Bastards, Mitsubishi!!!! You gimped what could've been a great seller!

I suspect the VE Crummydore SV6 has a large central muffler before the system branches to dual outlets.

Searched the Net but couldn't find any info on this.

I'm also guessing that this large central muffler (if there is one) is fairly restrictive, which would explain why with dual straight through mufflers the SV6 doesn't sound much different to the stock Alloytech 190, and why Holden don't claim a higher output for the SV6.

KJ.

KJ,

I can't believe the SV6 is fitted with straight thru's as standard - You utter Bastards, Mitsubishi!!!! You gimped what could've been a great seller!

Your dead right mate

Well, it looks like RPW have updated their site with the o2 sensor extensions.

http://www.rpw.com.au/shop/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1354&category_id=76&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31

Well, it looks like RPW have updated their site with the o2 sensor extensions.

http://www.rpw.com.au/shop/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1354&category_id=76&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31

Looks like good news for future extractor customers.

:iough: Looks like my N/A 163KW ATW power level maybe blitzed in the near future with new cams etc available for the 380 ...... who will be first?

Looks like good news for future extractor customers.

:iough: Looks like my N/A 163KW ATW power level maybe blitzed in the near future with new cams etc available for the 380 ...... who will be first?

Definately looking forward to getting a set when I get my tax back :)

So the cams are now available for the 380?

Definately looking forward to getting a set when I get my tax back :)

So the cams are now available for the 380?

They are coming, a little birdy told me that another 380 member is looking at testing some cams shortly.

PM Dave TJ for more info, a little birdy told me that another 380 member is looking at some developmental cams.

interesting....:badgrin:

Spoke to D&T performance in Adelaide yesterday regarding headers for the 380. They said they are able to custom build some headers for the 380.

Would there be any benefit to get custom built headers intead of the RPW headers?

I know it would cost alot more to have them custom built.

Spoke to D&T performance in Adelaide yesterday regarding headers for the 380. They said they are able to custom build some headers for the 380.

Would there be any benefit to get custom built headers intead of the RPW headers?

I know it would cost alot more to have them custom built.

There lies your answer, no point if you can already buy them elsewhere.

There lies your answer, no point if you can already buy them elsewhere.

So there is no benefit in having them custom built?

So there is no benefit in having them custom built?

The RPW's are proven to give a good 20KW increase & they are tuned length with 1 5/8" runners & now come with all the goodies to fit them up (apparantly) so hassle free fitment.

I guess if your guy was really on the ball & did a super good job he may find a couple of KW's but at what cost?

How much are these RPW headers? I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere already but I'm too lazy to do a search.

www.rpw.com.au

Grub,

When I bought mine a couple of months ago the details were:

Subtotal : $531.82
Shipping : $55.00
Tax Total : $53.18
Total: $640.00

They're now being advertised for $568.18, so I'm guessing they will cost you around $700 all up, allowing for extra GST and a little extra shipping to NSW instead of SA. See here: http://www.rpw.com.au/shop/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1354&category_id=236&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31


KJ.

Grub,

When I bought mine a couple of months ago the details were:

Subtotal : $531.82
Shipping : $55.00
Tax Total : $53.18
Total: $640.00

They're now being advertised for $568.18, so I'm guessing they will cost you around $700 all up, allowing for extra GST and a little extra shipping to NSW instead of SA. See here: http://www.rpw.com.au/shop/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1354&category_id=236&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=31


KJ.

Thanks. I posted a question about the hi-flo cats in another thread... Not sure about the gains there, but certainly a gain to be felt with extractors - or at least there was when I put them on my Magna. Felt like more low-end power and slightly deeper sound. They were Pacemakers, which my mechanic ordered; cost around $600 fitted, so $700 for these doesn't sound too bad.

Thanks. I posted a question about the hi-flo cats in another thread... Not sure about the gains there, but certainly a gain to be felt with extractors - or at least there was when I put them on my Magna. Felt like more low-end power and slightly deeper sound. They were Pacemakers, which my mechanic ordered; cost around $600 fitted, so $700 for these doesn't sound too bad.

The gains on the 380 will be a lot more than a Magna coz you are getting rid of the two restrictive precats ...... about 20kw worth

The gains on the 380 will be a lot more than a Magna coz you are getting rid of the two restrictive precats ...... about 20kw worth

Only trouble there is, I'm still nervous about removing the 2 cats, and the added noise which could result in the rear muffler needing a replace. But certainly 20kW is worth going for.

Only trouble there is, I'm still nervous about removing the 2 cats, and the added noise which could result in the rear muffler needing a replace. But certainly 20kW is worth going for.

Buy your wife some earplugs or drug her while she's asleep & all will be good :facejump:

Grub,

From my experience I reckon the Berklee with extractors, and even with the 3rd cat replaced with a high flow cat as well, will still sound pretty good for those who don't want it too loud and definitely don't want drone. Maybe a bit louder than you have at the moment, but not a lot.

It's when you go to a dual outlet system that the problems with too loud and/or too droney start, because you can't fit another 'really big' straight through muffler like the Berklee BS0655 on the passenger side.

So I reckon you should go for it Grub - get the extractors & the high flow 3rd cat, but keep the single exhaust pipe with the Berklee. No need to go to 3'' pipe, the stock pipe is plenty good enough. Will cost you a lot less than it has cost me so far, and you'll probably get the same power gain. I fitted the dual exhaust mainly for aesthetics and appearance, with no thought of any performance gain. It just looked unbalanced to me with a single outlet and other cars like Honda Euros & Mazda 6s, even some Crummydores, look better with twin outlets.

KJ.

I fitted the dual exhaust mainly for aesthetics and appearance, with no thought of any performance gain. It just looked unbalanced to me with a single outlet and other cars like Honda Euros & Mazda 6s, even some Crummydores, look better with twin outlets.
That was my thought too.
Thanks for the other info too.

Any of you guys that have fitted extactors still got the factory manifolds?

Any of you guys that have fitted extactors still got the factory manifolds?

Nope they wouldn't even make a good boat anchor lol

Has anyone fitted the headers with the berklee muffler? I would be interested to know how much louder it will be.

Has anyone fitted the headers with the berklee muffler? I would be interested to know how much louder it will be.

I put mine on after I had the dual exhaust done & there was a significant increase in noise. If it is fairly quiet now I think you will still be happy with it.

Thanks Fooz :happy:

Braedz,

If you go with the extractors I recommend you replace the third (remaining) cat with a high flow cat.

The third cat is a dummy, a 'white brick' that does nothing to reduce harmful emissions (and CO2 is NOT a harmful emission, I'm talking NOX and other nasties), so your car is no longer legal after removing the front two cats.

There are two benefits from replacing the third cat - your car will be legal again (but see below), and you'll gain another slight increase in power & torque.

Just be careful about the type of high flow cat you go for. Plenty of dodgy Chinese knock-offs out there on Fleabay that do little or nothing and can break down quickly. Apparently MetalCat are good, although I got a Zetti.

Also, you can get really good flowing 100 CPI (cells per inch) cats BUT they are apparently illegal and they cost a bit more than the 200 CPI (legal) units. Of course you can always go with a 100 CPI unit and take a very small chance that you will be defected (coz who's gonna check?), your choice.

I'm happy with my 200 CPI Zetti unit, don't feel a need to blow another $250 on a 100 CPI unit for a tiny increase in flow.

KJ.

Thanks for the Info KJ, I will keep that in mind.

When I get the headers, i will probably get them fitted at the same place you did.

That'd be a good choice Braedz, he's a top bloke, knows his stuff, and now that he's done mine (and the RPW kit comes with all the goodies) it should be a breeze and not cost you much either.

If you have any probs with the O2 sensor spacers/extenders provided by RPW, as CaramelComplex seems to have, he should still have eight of them of the right length & type. He had ten made up for my job and of course he only used two.

KJ.