Before anyone flames, I've tried searching and havent been able to find any answers that can help me with this problem.

So, my second-hand KF Verada that I've had for a week and which I had to get a new muffler for is now giving me electrical trouble:

- First time I noticed was last week, driving through Sydney's traffic, about 40 minutes of stop-start driving, I noticed the charge warning light coming on when I was stopped and then disappearing again when I took off. This was during the day so I did not have my headlights switched on.

- Now I am noticing that my interior lights go dim when I am stopped, and then brighten as soon as I put my foot on the accelerator. Now I know this is the classic sign of alternator problems however before I go out and get myself one from the wreckers I just wanted some opinion on the issue.

- I bought an alternator and battery tester from KMart for $20 just this arvo. I put it on the battery with the car off and it said the battery had low charge. As soon as I turned the car on, with no lights or anything on, it said it was fully charged and that the alternator was also fine. I turned the headlights on and it still said everything was fine, at which point I contemplated putting my foot through the tester.

- However I held my nerve and went and took the car for a 5 minute drive with the lights on. I came back, left it idling in D and attached the tester. Now it said that the battery was fully charged but the alternator was faulty and undercharging. When I turned the headlights off it still said the battery was fully charged and the faulty alternator light blinked on and off (I guess that means its cycling(?) through giving proper charge and undercharging when all lights are off).

- So I'm assuming that the alternator is rooted given that the Tester said it was when I had the headlights on. One question though. How can it say the battery is fully charged if the alternator is rooted? Wouldnt it be unable to fully charge the batter?

I hope someone can help me out as I don't want to go and get a new alternator and get it fitted if it is only the battery and vice versa.

Cheers.

hi its a tricky thing

im not sure about your alt make, but it should have a regulator on it.,the reg is on the back or built in.(if built in well take to a shop.)

if your lucky its on the back, a little black thing...and is cheap to replace. give that a go. they always go before the alt fails.

let me know and i'll look into it for you.(time permitted.)

cheers.

Thanks I'll check it out tomorrow. One question, how would I know if the regulators on its way out?

Best way to check if its charging is to just put a multimeter on it, i think anything above 14.4V while its running means it charging, should go up a fraction the more you rev it, if it doesnt move up while you rev it OR its under 14.4V(ish) when its running then its not charging and you have an alt problem.

How old is the battery in it?

When mine was faulty, my charge/battery light flickered when I was driving, and stayed on at idle.

It's not easy to test - the Mitsubishi manual test requires an ammeter, a voltmeter and an MUT II.

silly question, but how is the belt tension for the alternator?
might be a bit loose..

cant hurt to check it - and it wont cost you anything to adjust it yourself if it is loose.

iv had cars that the alt belts where a little slack on causing the batt light to come on but go out when i accelerated again..

Best way to check if its charging is to just put a multimeter on it, i think anything above 14.4V while its running means it charging, should go up a fraction the more you rev it, if it doesnt move up while you rev it OR its under 14.4V(ish) when its running then its not charging and you have an alt problem.

How old is the battery in it?

true

grab a cheap multimeter $10 from bunnings or mitre 10

check with car off and then running.

if volts go up running alt is fine. still check regulator if not right.

Thanks for the info guys I'll pick up a multimeter tomorrow. Noob question, how exactly do I use the multimeter to test if its charging or not?

I'm not sure how old the battery is as I only picked the car up last week.

The batt should put out 12.2 volt min with car off.....thats a good batt... expect 11.8 min and think about a new one if this is the case or below.

with car running it should read 13.5 plus. up to 14.5 but not much more.

hook up red to pos and black to neg...set meter to the left settings of the dial. you cant really go wrong.

if you need a pic let me know.

cheers.

sweet thanks for that I'll check it out tomorrow with the multimeter and see how I go.

I'd say change over the regulator yourself, its something thats fairly cheap. If it still has the problem then you can get a second hand alternator, and you can still use the new regulator with it (actually, probably would be advisable to)! Just hope if you do get a second hand alternator that it is in good condition. I have no idea how much to expect to pay at a wreckers, BUT consider the price of a second hand one that may go faulty in 3 months vs getting yours reconditioned. Its improbable the whole alternator is stuffed(in terms of the coil wire being burnt out), its most likely the brushes inside the alternator. I'd recommend the reconditioning route, it could even be cheaper than what the wreckers would charge if you can take the alternator off yourself - as it sounds like you can!, as brushes are cheap and easy for an auto-electrician to replace in an alternator, most of the charge is due to labour which you can reduce if you can do the removing and reinstall yourself.

Got the multimeter yesterday and tested last night...Battery measured 12v with the car off and only 12.3-12.8v with the car idling in D with the headlights on.

So its not the battery I'm assuming. Going from the advice you blokes have given me I'm going to get my hands on a regulator and see if that sorts it out, if not I'll have to take it to an auto electrician.

Btw - it looks like you may well need a new battery while you are at it.

12V for a battery is around 25% capacity. Lead acid batteries dont like being discharged below 80%, some can be revived with some distilled water and a good long charge though.

http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery.html

:stoopid:

As if the alt is buggered,it will place a extra load on the battery and if it isnt being charged correctly,this will shorten its life,load test is the best way to aguge a batteries condition,but sounds like its gone already by the sound of it

If you want a genuine bosch reg you will need P/N 9191067059 if its a late model bosch unit,be careful when fitting in that you will need to drop the brushes down onto the slip ring first on an angle,then once seated drop the bum down and screw in place,also remember to disconnect the battery terms aswell so you dont weld lol

Steve

Thanks for the tips, I'll change the battery in first then try and track down a regulator.

Personally thats not the greatest idea.

A dying regulator (and yours is close to being completely toast, the alt should measure somewhere around 14-14.1V) will kill a new battery really quickly.

I'de fix the alternator asap (preferably without driving the car....as you could be left stuck at an intersection with a truck coming towards you) and replace the battery in 1 go.

Good point, advice heeded. Anyone know where I can get a regulator from?

Repco, Mitsubishi spare parts centre.

Its that, or head over to a wrecker and pick up another alternator for $70 and do a swap, and hope that the regulator wont go anytime soon.

when i brought my tj the reg was stuffed broken half off 2 min job 2 pull out the screws are are a pain though very tight... and be careful if u replace the reg when threading the brushes back in they kind of go in down in????(i think from memory) i priced them got quoted everything from 60 to 140 for a a reg... so i made the car yard pay LOL
i know of two guys who have recently had their alternators reconded different places for between 90 and 140

Repco, Mitsubishi spare parts centre.

Its that, or head over to a wrecker and pick up another alternator for $70 and do a swap, and hope that the regulator wont go anytime soon.

As I said before I'd recommend against getting an alternator from the wreckers, as you have no idea what condition it is in. The brushes could be near worn, the regulator stuff, or both!

Since going to the wreckers suggest you have the ability to take it off yourself, take out the alternator and take it to a good auto electrician to get reconditioned. To get the brushes and regulator replaced it won't be exceedingly expensive, I have no idea on the cost to be honest but even if its $30 more than the wreckers it is definitely advisable as you know you have a good alternator - much better than getting one that you have no idea whether it is ok or not from the wreckers.

Burfadel - I know what you are saying, I agree to an extent. In that regard though, you shouldnt buy just about anything from the wreckers.

I've used/put on around 6 alternators from the wreckers, mainly EF/EL falcon transplants onto rotaries - 4 years on, not one person has had their alternator die on them. These were alternators that were covered in grime, power steering fluid and oil.

Maybe im just lucky with alternators :)

Burfadel - I know what you are saying, I agree to an extent. In that regard though, you shouldnt buy just about anything from the wreckers.

I've used/put on around 6 alternators from the wreckers, mainly EF/EL falcon transplants onto rotaries - 4 years on, not one person has had their alternator die on them. These were alternators that were covered in grime, power steering fluid and oil.

Maybe im just lucky with alternators :)

Yes,you have been very LUCKY!!,wrecker units in my opinion are buying someone elses problems,but as you have proved,you can get lucky,but moreso unlucky from what ive seen im my job

I'm going to go to Repco tomorrow to get a regulator. In regards to fitting it, can anyone help me with how to put it on properly so the brushes fit as they should? Or is it something that I'll just be able to suss out from taking it off and seeing where everything fits together? I've never done it before in case you couldn't tell lol.

Yes,you have been very LUCKY!!,wrecker units in my opinion are buying someone elses problems,but as you have proved,you can get lucky,but moreso unlucky from what ive seen im my job

Then im just lucky with alternators lol

In eithercase - the regulators and brushes from memory are all servicable from the back of the unit on those alternators, so not really hard to replace if one dies.

Look I do agree that yes buying from the wreckers is risky sometimes (though pick 'n' payless do have a warranty...sort of), however in my previous car - a festiva, which used a Banyo alternators - the rebuild cost was $360+, and only one place would touch it - a guy in Melbourne - and he couldnt promise a time frame either.

Wreckers alternator lasted longer than the car - $40 later.

I'm going to go to Repco tomorrow to get a regulator. In regards to fitting it, can anyone help me with how to put it on properly so the brushes fit as they should? Or is it something that I'll just be able to suss out from taking it off and seeing where everything fits together? I've never done it before in case you couldn't tell lol.

Its easy really,when you take the old one out,note how the back end wants to come up when you loosen the screws,this is because it sits on "springy" contacts in that location,once you lift the back up,pull back and slide up at the same time so the brushes clear the slip rin housing etc,this is to remove

so when installing push the brushes down on a angle like you did when removing, so they contact the slip ring first then push them in towards it gently,then drop the back down,it will feel like it has a bit of tension on them,this is because of the afore mentioned contacts,hold back end dowm then screw in place

the whole point of the angle is to stop you breaking of the brushes,so if you picture this,you wll be fine

Steve

Well I've just finished fitting the new regulator and new battery. It doesn't seem to have fixed it, the interior lights (radio, clock) still go dim when I turn the headlights on and the dashboard lights (speedo, etc.) still go dim when I stop and brighten again when I touch the throttle. ~$230 later I'm ready to kill :eeek:

Well I've just finished fitting the new regulator and new battery. It doesn't seem to have fixed it, the interior lights (radio, clock) still go dim when I turn the headlights on and the dashboard lights (speedo, etc.) still go dim when I stop and brighten again when I touch the throttle. ~$230 later I'm ready to kill :eeek:

ive this same problem, its really annoying. changed the battery to a reasonably new one and problems still remain (just not as bad)... i think my alternator is ****ed as well :( how about we swap alternators then we can tell if they are the problem!

ive this same problem, its really annoying. changed the battery to a reasonably new one and problems still remain (just not as bad)... i think my alternator is ****ed as well :( how about we swap alternators then we can tell if they are the problem!

haha well change your regulator and see if that helps..it didnt help me but it may fix your problem. Going to get new battery terminals then if that doesnt work I'm gonna bite the bullet and take it to an auto electrician

how much is a new regulator? and where do i buy/steal one from?
also how much will it cost for you to get your alternator fixed? or a new one?

cars are such a pain in the ass lol

ok this thread is great but as for cash needed we all take the low cost path were available.

there are a few fundamentals when it comes to power in a car.

alt and reg.
good earth cables and power cables.
the battery it's self

to test this you need a multimeter.

If in doubt always change the battery if its over 2 year old.

When the car is running it should have 12.9-14 volt on the multimeter which will rule out the alt

if voltage is low or too high replace the regulator and or alt rebuild

Also check the alt belt to make sure its fine and running with no slipping.

Back to the battery make sure the earth is good and terminals are free from crap. use sand paper or replace.

new terminals are about $10 each.

regs are available from good auto elects for under 20 bucks.

all the best

cheers man, appreciate it

Got the regulator from Repco, its a Bosch model, someone posted the part number in a previous post in this thread. Cost me $71.

far out the price is up!

if to dear go to the wreckers.

far out the price is up!

if to dear go to the wreckers.

yea I was expecting about $50-60
bloke at Repco reckoned they had a new alternator in stock for $285 too which I might have to end up buying if changing the terminals doesnt improve the problem

far out the price is up!

if to dear go to the wreckers.


Thats not a bad price really,Bosch have had multiple price increases in the past months,but they are quality regs,I wouldnt tocuh a reg from a wrecker with a barge pole!

Steve

bought a multimeter, checked my car when off and when running, off it's at 13V, running it's at about 13.7V (with amp/speakers connected). sound ok? or do i need a new regulator/alternator?

When I tested mine prior to installing the new regulator it was at 12v with car off and 12.3-12.8 with car running. everyone agreed those figures were too low. Haven't had a chance to check since putting in the new battery and regulator.

13.7 sounds right to me.

from what you saying the charging is good and the volts are good with the motor off.

If it runs out of pufff! while driving yo may need a new battery.

Just an update to how the cars been going since I changed the regulator and battery. I'm still getting the dimming lights but its only happening every now and then. I haven't had the charge warning light come on so I'm hoping that is a good sign. Also, when I do get the lights dimming, it seems to not be as bad when I put it in neutral at the lights. I'm guessing (and only guessing cos I don't have that much knowledge on this sort of thing) that the battery is being charged more when I put it in neutral because the revs are higher. Like putting your foot on the accelerator, sort of. Also had to get the gasket seals and all six spark plug seals and spark plugs replaced the other day, cost me $350. Bloody cars cost me $1100 since I got it a month ago.

i did mine through RACV and it was $288 with installation i think, very good and quick service. from quote to completion it was 15 hours (over night) installation took less than an hour and i was all good :)