How much interest would there be in big front brake rotors?

Graham wants better brakes on his AWD and has the contacts to cast and machine(same co in China do rotors for DBA but with different iron and heat treat to be superior to 4000 series).

The proposal is for a 320-330mm x 24mm rotor either plain or slotted (Graham prefers plain or light fish hooking)so that stock calipers can be used with spacer brackets to keep cost down.

He has been mucking about with brake pads for a while and has 3 materials that work well. I've got his intermediate pads on currently and am very happy with them. He has just sent a set of track/tarmac rally pads for me to try and I'll get them on in a week or so and test for high speed fade(can't do that where he is).

It appears that rotors, brackets/bolts and intermediate pads should come in well under $1000, maybe as low as $900. Also would be about $50 less with the low spec, but better than Bendix Ultimate pads.

Another proposal is to go for a bigger 2 pot caliper like V8 VE Commodore and increase rotor width to 30mm but that would add about $600. The C5 PBR calipers would be even better, allow rotor width of 32mm, but then looking at over $2000.

380 caliper may also be possible but limited pad range available.

What are you track day guys using?

Cheers,
Alan

Who's Graham?

Alan 1 of our Magna's uses 380 calipers and rotors, with a slightly modified caliper so it can use the C5 pads. Jim Myhill's Magna has 380 rotors and BA calipers which give him a better pad selection than the 380 caliper.

Cheers Dave.

Aren't the 380 brakes nearly idemtical to the AWD brakes?

These BA brakes...do they bolt straight up or is there much modification?

How much interest would there be in big front brake rotors?

Graham wants better brakes on his AWD and has the contacts to cast and machine(same co in China do rotors for DBA but with different iron and heat treat to be superior to 4000 series).

The proposal is for a 320-330mm x 24mm rotor either plain or slotted (Graham prefers plain or light fish hooking)so that stock calipers can be used with spacer brackets to keep cost down.

He has been mucking about with brake pads for a while and has 3 materials that work well. I've got his intermediate pads on currently and am very happy with them. He has just sent a set of track/tarmac rally pads for me to try and I'll get them on in a week or so and test for high speed fade(can't do that where he is).

It appears that rotors, brackets/bolts and intermediate pads should come in well under $1000, maybe as low as $900. Also would be about $50 less with the low spec, but better than Bendix Ultimate pads.

Another proposal is to go for a bigger 2 pot caliper like V8 VE Commodore and increase rotor width to 30mm but that would add about $600. The C5 PBR calipers would be even better, allow rotor width of 32mm, but then looking at over $2000.

380 caliper may also be possible but limited pad range available.

What are you track day guys using?

Cheers,
Alan

Wookie and TZABOY have these on thier cars, there by hopper stoppers

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44966&highlight=corvette+brakes&page=2

Who's Graham?
Graham Bell

Alan J
Are the rotors you suggested OK with the standard AWD calipers, or is some modification required?

Edit: oops... Just re-read your suggestion of using adapter bracket...lol

Graham Bell

Alan J
Are the rotors you suggested OK with the standard AWD calipers, or is some modification required?

Edit: oops... Just re-read your suggestion of using adapter bracket...lol

The idea is to use adapter brackets to move the stock caliper out to suit the big rotor. I'm assuming from what Graham said he thinks the same big rotor with a different bracket could be used with the single piston caliper models too to save the cost of upgrading to AWD/Ralliart calipers.

The main issue with Magnas is rotor size limiting heat sink and cooling capacity. 2 pot calipers give better pedal feel and wear with less pad taper and wedge, so pads last longer, but ultimate brake performance isn't a great deal better. The main issue being that sliding 2 pot calipers are very long and mask a large area of the rotor from pumping cooling air through the vanes. A single pot caliper is shorter so a bigger % of the rotor is pumping air. BMW for example have generally always used single pot calipers, even on M3, M5 and M6.

The 380 caliper could also be used and 320-330mm x 28mm rotor made but there is very limited availability of pad materials. With the AWD/Ralliart there is a big selection of pads as the gravel spec rally EVOs use the same front pad. So if you have the $ you can use Pagid, Ferodo 3000 etc.

Graham can get any of his pad materials onto 380 backing plates, the factory doing his pads has the "biscuit" press to do the job, but back plates aren't available. So anyone wanting those materials for 380 calipers would have to supply back plates and wait to get the friction material pressed, cooked and ground.

He wasn't aware of anyone doing brake upgrade kits for Magnas. Seems Hoppers have done a big rotor job. What size rotor and what calipers do they use, and what $.

Graham wants to keep cost under $1000, preferably closer to $900 even with high grade track spec pads.

Cheers,
Alan

I'm using the evo4 brakes (aka ralliart/awd) in my manual fwd magna, Ferodo DS2500 and DBA4000.

After much track abuse I can confidently recomend this setup to anyone, it is simply bulletproof.

No cracking/warping of the rotors after 3 full track days.

No fade after several laps of Wakefield Park, and this is with a fairly serious suspension setup, ~100hp over stock and semi-slicks - i.e they get quite a good workout.

Also this setup has good feel, I find it easy to modulate my braking.

Only drawback is the DS2500 pads aren't the best for the street - until you've gotten some heat into them they don't "bight" as well as the usual street-focused pads. Personally this doesn't bother me, just gotta be a little firmer on the pedal when they are cold.

When I had EBC greenstuff, they had much more "bight" for street driving than the DS2500 (which are more of a track-focused pad), but the around Wakefield Park the EBCs would fade badly after only a few laps, and ended up cracking.

Alan 1 of our Magna's uses 380 calipers and rotors, with a slightly modified caliper so it can use the C5 pads. Jim Myhill's Magna has 380 rotors and BA calipers which give him a better pad selection than the 380 caliper.

Cheers Dave.

Thanks Dave. So how well does that combo hold up at Mallala? The 380 rotors are quite small 296 x 28 for a fairly heavy car. Do you have back plates with cooling ducts into them? or just naked rotors?

What pad materials are you both using and how many minutes can run before braking distances on the big stops increase, or pedal gets long or heavy?

Is the BA caliper an easy fit?



I'm using the evo4 brakes (aka ralliart/awd) in my manual fwd magna, Ferodo DS2500 and DBA4000.

After much track abuse I can confidently recomend this setup to anyone, it is simply bulletproof.

No cracking/warping of the rotors after 3 full track days.

No fade after several laps of Wakefield Park, and this is with a rather a rather serious suspension setup, ~100hp over stock and semi-slicks - i.e they get quite a good workout.

Also this setup has good feel, I find it easy to modulate my braking.

Only drawback is the DS2500 pads aren't the best for the street - until you've gotten some heat into them they don't "bight" as well as the usual street-focused pads. Personally this doesn't bother me, just gotta be a little firmer on the pedal when they are cold.

When I had EBC greenstuff, they had much more "bight" for street driving than the DS2500 (which are more of a track-focused pad), but the around Wakefield Park the EBCs would fade badly after only a few laps, and ended up cracking.


Thanks Chisholm for your input.

The first option we looked at was the EVO Brembo 320 x 32, but decided the cost would be too much for most. Plus many have wheels that won't clear the Brembo 4 pots. The next option was Corvette C5 PBR calipers and EVO rotors, but again big $. Thats when Graham looked into casting a 320-330mm x 24mm rotor and spacing out the stock caliper. Guys with AWD/Ralliart would have a suitable caliper to provide reasonable braking and any who wanted the big rotor for cosmetic purposes wouldn't have to spend a lot to fill their wheels with a big dia rotor.

So you are running 294 x 24 rotors up front? Do you have back plates with cooling ducts into them?


Cheers,
Alan

Thats when Graham looked into casting a 320-330mm x 24mm rotor and spacing out the stock caliper. Guys with AWD/Ralliart would have a suitable caliper to provide reasonable braking and any who wanted the big rotor for cosmetic purposes wouldn't have to spend a lot to fill their wheels with a big dia rotor.

So you are running 294 x 24 rotors up front? Do you have back plates with cooling ducts into them?


Cheers,
Alan

What Graham is proposing sounds like a good cost-effective compromise for cosmetic and performance purposes to me :)

Correct, I run the standard 294x24 evo4 rotor. I removed the backing plates, which I've been told significantly aids in cooling (though I never did any testing to verify this). I intended to run cooling ducts as well, but since I don't get any significant fade after several hard laps of Wakefield Park I never bothered.

Btw Wakefield Park is supposedly quite punishing on brakes, due to the fact 2 of the major braking zones are downhill, and the layout of the track means limited airflow for cooling (short straights with mostly fairly tight/slow corners flowing into each other, compared to a much more 'open' track like Eastern Creek or QR).

As the Ferodo DS2500 are so resistant to high temps (in fact they need some heat in them to work at their best), I've never felt the need to upgrade my brakes, despite them on paper seeming undersized compared to the rest of my car.

But if you wanto run a more street-oriented pad on the track then yes IMO an upgrade is definantely needed for a setup like mine.

OK thanks again Chisholm. I'll pass that info on to Graham.

Cheers,
Alan

Alan, As most people know Mallala is a brake killer. Not to sure on the fit up of Jims BA calipers they could of been 380 proto's so they are a bolt on. He's been using EBC pads. John has been using Performance friction with his 380 brakes. Both set ups were quite good untill we got more power and a lower lap time. brakes were still OK but pad wear increased massively. Ian suffered the same with his R32 gtr brake set up using Hawk HT10's. All cars have ducting. My car used standard brakes with special bendix pads made for GTP so I used 4 sets of pads 4 sets rotors and 2 brake calipers in 4 race meetings. Cars are 1360-1400kgs with fuel and driver.
I'm sure all these brake packages would be OK at nearly every other track in Australia, the tracks we've been to haven't been any problems.
We've upraded our 3 cars to EVO/Brembo (very cost effective on E-bay) front brakes with endless pads and Jim is trying endless pads with the BA/380 set up. Rear brakes are standard with Bendix ultimates they last no worries on the FWD's.

Cheers Dave.

Alan, As most people know Mallala is a brake killer. Not to sure on the fit up of Jims BA calipers they could of been 380 proto's so they are a bolt on. He's been using EBC pads. John has been using Performance friction with his 380 brakes. Both set ups were quite good untill we got more power and a lower lap time. brakes were still OK but pad wear increased massively. Ian suffered the same with his R32 gtr brake set up using Hawk HT10's. All cars have ducting. My car used standard brakes with special bendix pads made for GTP so I used 4 sets of pads 4 sets rotors and 2 brake calipers in 4 race meetings. Cars are 1360-1400kgs with fuel and driver.
I'm sure all these brake packages would be OK at nearly every other track in Australia, the tracks we've been to haven't been any problems.
We've upraded our 3 cars to EVO/Brembo (very cost effective on E-bay) front brakes with endless pads and Jim is trying endless pads with the BA/380 set up. Rear brakes are standard with Bendix ultimates they last no worries on the FWD's.

Cheers Dave.

Thanks Dave for those details. The feeling was that the rear brakes were over done and just bigger fronts were needed.

On Graham's AWD with Police spec pads(his is ex cop car, Police pads were probably Bendix Ultimates?) he lost brakes on gravel in the forests in 10 mins or so. My AWD had Lucas/TRW pads(similar to Ultimates, probably better feel when hot) and they wouldn't last 2 runs through a favorite 16km section of twisties. Now after fitting the intermediate spec pads Graham had made (he calls them 565 SportMAX) the brakes are holding up OK but I suspect just as you found the stock rotors would be wrecked after a day of such punishment. I have yet to try his track/tarmac rally pads (775 TargaMAX). They have a little metal in them so may be a bit more gentle on the rotors at high temps.

Cheers,
Alan

I'm in the market for new pads as I want to do some track time this year. As you and Graham know I'm AWD, but I'm about to have twice the power atw too. Be nice to stop without using the crumple zones...