Latest modifications now complete, which include:

- Stage 1 Camshafts
- Ported Heads
- K&N Cold Air Intake with Pod Filter
- Greddy E-Manage

Dyno sheet attached – nice having 135KW+ from 4400rpm all the way to 6300rpm! :D

All products were supplied by RPW (thanks David for answering my 10,000,000 questions along the way).

Tuning done by MRT in Sydney.

Did you do a dyno stock? What was your original power output?

Did you do a dyno stock? What was your original power output?

Unfortunately no dyno while car was stock standard… but I'm guessing between 110-115KW?

Before these latest mods I was dyno'ed at 130.4KW@wheels... Apart from picking up approx 16KW, the power curve is a lot flatter at the top end. Also gained mid-range torque - pulls really hard up steep hills now.

So what exactly have you got done now to reach those figures? Besides the above listed.

It's all in my profile...

Thats awesome. Now you just have to break the 200HP@wheels mark :D

Nice work...

I hope your RPW cams didn't sound like mine... turned my car into a diesel engine... DVS knows best!!!

Nice work...

I hope your RPW cams didn't sound like mine... turned my car into a diesel engine... DVS knows best!!!

What happened with yours? My car is louder now but sounds awesome :cool: No complaints from me at all!! (Not sure about my neighbours' point of view) :D

Engine sounded a bit rough before the Greddy tuning, but I don't think anyone would seriously do something like this without a retunable ECU.

My low end remains basically the same, mid has huge pulling power now, and high end is fantasic!

Let's see.. MadMagna or DVS would be best to describe the "RPW" Stage 2 cams.. mmmm WTCHME too, Ash... WhiteDevil... TheDifference... Who ever in Vic AM who has seen and heard my Diesel Magna will know best..

BlackBeast rocks up to a AM Vic cruise not sounding like a vrooom vrooom, but sounding like a freaking time bomb waiting to explode... "TICK TICK TICK TICKY TICKY TICK TICK TICK TICK TICKY TICK TICK TICKY TICK" <---- An idea of how it sounds like, and very much louder...

Dave claimed that his TT magna has it and had no problems with it. I was the only other one to have it and it stuffed up the car, not once... but twice with another replacement set of cams.. Dave was kind enough to offer me a "Claim" for the labour involved.. I said fair enough.. it's been like 6 months and I'm still waiting on the claim for the first job...

Now the 2 sets of cams are sitting sealed in a box, waiting to be sent back for a refund, but how am I getting a refund when I haven't even got back the monies for the claim I made? I've been very patient for the last 6 months with it and I have another claim he said I can get to go.... I have only called Dave up like 3 times to enquire about the claim and each time I get the same reply.. If I want to be an unreasonable customer, I would have called till his phone breaks.... I get no courtesy calls from him or any updates he might have in regards to the claims at all...It does gets on my nerves sometimes that the after services fails so badly after one pays up...


I'm glad your car went alright and you were happy with RPW...

CHEERS
Nick

Mmmm... That is surprising compared to my experiences. :shock:

However my experience was certainly not all smooth sailing…

Getting everything working properly has been a 6 week nightmare, which revolved around a failing fuel pump, problems getting the Greddy E-Manage installed, and problems finding someone who could tune it properly.

These problems had nothing to do with RPW or Dave… in fact I found Dave to be very helpful, and I have literally been calling/emailing/messaging him daily to get the answers that we needed here in Sydney to solve these issues. (I am sure Dave knows my voice on the phone very well now). But I cannot really comment on the problems that you have had with RPW.

Dave did warn me about a few things which can go horribly wrong if the installer isn't as knowledgeable as he should be. My cams came already fitted into the ported heads which might have avoided some potential problems there.

Dave did warn me about a few things which can go horribly wrong if the installer isn't as knowledgeable as he should be. My cams came already fitted into the ported heads which might have avoided some potential problems there.

I totally agree with you, installers can go wrong, I had not one but two tuners working on the cars on my request and I'm glad I got "mate's rates" for it or I'll have the feeling the bill I sent to Dave to claim will make his jaws drop and their workshops churns out Auto Salon Monsters.. The second set of cams I received was supposed to have less lift, we measured it and confirmed with Dave over the phone, After installation, the Ticky Tick Tick was even louder, and the dowels were too long that we had to grind it off to make it fit.

In the end I had to have the heads checked before I put the stock cams in.. and I told Dave that I will bear the costs of the head check WHICH I did coz, If I make a claim on that.. How long more do I have to wait?

I do sympathise with you Nick… regardless of where fault lies, I know how frustrating it is when things don't work out.

Thankfully I can report that things turned out very well for me, and I encourage others to go down the same path…

Ahh now that we are back on topic… :)

Now that you have a near 200HP car, what are you plans? Track racing? Drag meets? Underground Drag meets?

What are you doing with all the extra power? Any new stories you wanna share with us.?

well done on the power output. :clap: :clap: :clap:
BTW, how much did your cam and head port cost?

Drag meets and track racing are definitely the plan!

On a public forum, it would be irresponsible and incriminating for me to discuss any of the things I have done with my extra power so far! :D

Next mods planned, include heavy duty clutch and brake upgrades… when all that it complete there is really only one logical thing to do next…

Oh and talk to RPW for pricing, those are the rules I think...

velocity do you think the money you spent was spend well.

ie do you feel you got a good gain for the total you spent?

I have no regrets, very happy with the car, and I am not planning on stopping the modifying just yet.

But I can certainly say - it gets more and more expensive to chase each extra KW as you go along...

I wonder what time slips you would pull? Any problem with traction? is it really easy to spin the wheels now?

What RPW headers do you have?

WhiteDevil...

Hopefully some time soon I'll be able to tell you what times I can pull… got to get onto the drag strip first.

Traction can be an issue but I find that if I launch more gently for like the first 1 metre, and then floor it after that, I don't have any problems with traction… maybe the Cusco LSD has helped a bit too. I also have the RPW modified front engine mount which is supposed to help with traction a little.

And torque steer has never been a problem for me (even now)... as long as I keep a firm hold of the steering wheel, it cains dead straight down the line!

Redav...

I have the first design RPW extractors which came out a couple of years back. Not as good as the new ones they are about to start selling.

Cheers. Your list of mods is basically exactly what I had initially planned on doing. Problem is that I can't find a GReddy tuner up here. Have you had any thoughts about getting your inlet manifold and intake plenium modified like extrude honed?

Depending on where you buy your Greddy (ie from RPW), it will come with a pre-wired harness for the Magna and instructions on which wires connect to which pins on the factory ECU.

And the software that comes with the Greddy is very straight forward and really any decent tuner should be able to tune it without any problems even if they have never seen the unit before.

I have been thinking about getting some work done to the intake plenum etc, but haven’t looked into costs yet... I wouldn't imagine there would be massive gains there... but hopefully still worthwhile.

Depending on where you buy your Greddy (ie from RPW), it will come with a pre-wired harness for the Magna and instructions on which wires connect to which pins on the factory ECU.

And the software that comes with the Greddy is very straight forward and really any decent tuner should be able to tune it without any problems even if they have never seen the unit before.

Ahh... okay. I keep getting told by others that it's a nucence to install and tune. Wish I lived in Perth sometimes.


I have been thinking about getting some work done to the intake plenum etc, but haven’t looked into costs yet... I wouldn't imagine there would be massive gains there... but hopefully still worthwhile.

On a stock car I don't think it's worth it but with cams, tuning and the main breathing mods, it could well be something worth while. Hard to say I guess. But as you were saying, those extra kW's on an NA engine are small and costly. I've got the 3.0 so I'm keen to see how it would go. As it's more rev friendly the extra 500rpm or so could well make things interesting.

Ahh... okay. I keep getting told by others that it's a nucence to install and tune. Wish I lived in Perth sometimes.

Physically installing it you could just about do yourself with a few tools. I am no expert but I looked at the software tool and it's hard to imagine why any tuner couldn't use it.



On a stock car I don't think it's worth it but with cams, tuning and the main breathing mods, it could well be something worth while. Hard to say I guess. But as you were saying, those extra kW's on an NA engine are small and costly. I've got the 3.0 so I'm keen to see how it would go. As it's more rev friendly the extra 500rpm or so could well make things interesting.

You've got me interested now... :)

196 hp @ wheels!!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrr - ever seen a small man turning green......
Congrats, man!

did you get a torque reading buddy? much more hapening down low in your torque/power?

Trav

Yes, I did get a torque reading, but there are two problems with it… 1. the line on the graph is extremely fine and light coloured and it's very hard to scan it and keep it readable… 2. I do not have a torque curve from that dyno before the heads/cams/greddy/cai went it, so we I nothing to compare it to.

My feelings on torque when in the drivers seat are:

- Low down torque is the same as before, or maybe marginally lower.

- Mid range torque is the same.

- High end is much stronger and the drop-off is more gradual (I think this is why strong power is maintained right to red line… because power is proportional to torque x rpm?)

Peak torque is maintained from 4000rpm – 4600rpm (read as 1120Nm on dynapack dyno).

Peak torque is maintained from 4000rpm – 4600rpm (read as 1120Nm on dynapack dyno).

Umm I some how think you are misreading the graph, Daves twin turbo magna makes around 600Nm, and the AMG CL65 makes 1200Nm (flywheel) from 6.5L of twin turbo V12 :D

perhaps 1120lb of tractive effort?

dont ask me for the conversion from tractive effort to actual NM's!! :confused:

Umm I some how think you are misreading the graph, Daves twin turbo magna makes around 600Nm, and the AMG CL65 makes 1200Nm (flywheel) from 6.5L of twin turbo V12 :D

I have done a 2nd attempt at scanning my dyno sheet and have now been able to get the torque curve readable. My original post has now been edited with the new dyno sheet attached, take a look.

It looks like 1118.2Nm to me… I am not sure why the readings are so high compared to these other cars.

I have done a 2nd attempt at scanning my dyno sheet and have now been able to get the torque curve readable. My original post has now been edited with the new dyno sheet attached, take a look.

It looks like 1118.2Nm to me… I am not sure why the readings are so high compared to these other cars.


im sorry, not attacking you, but its definately NOT Nm of torque, i dare say its tractive effort. cos mate, not even the most powerful diesel mack truck has 1118.2Nm of torque to pull a load!

as for the reading then, its also weird that both max torque and hp figures are gained at the same RPM range.... cos normally peak torque is only around 3-4000rpm and max power is attained around 5-5500rpm..

so errr.. its weird, but i dare say its torque in lb/feet tractive effort.

EDIT: attached a dyno sheet with the clearer value graph's. a bit easier on the eyes :D

im sorry, not attacking you, but its definately NOT Nm of torque, i dare say its tractive effort. cos mate, not even the most powerful diesel mack truck has 1118.2Nm of torque to pull a load!

No offence taken…. There is obviously something amiss with the torque reading…


as for the reading then, its also weird that both max torque and hp figures are gained at the same RPM range.... cos normally peak torque is only around 3-4000rpm and max power is attained around 5-5500rpm..

so errr.. its weird, but i dare say its torque in lb/feet tractive effort.

But why are you saying the maximum torque and hp figures gained in the same RPM range… peak torque is 4000-4600rpm… peak power is 5000-5600rpm.

No offence taken…. There is obviously something amiss with the torque reading…



But why are you saying the maximum torque and hp figures gained in the same RPM range… peak torque is 4000-4600rpm… peak power is 5000-5600rpm.


ooops. i was ment to say you dont normally see max torque and max power at in the same RPM range lol

i think the best thing is to call rpm (?) and ask how to decypher the readings. perhaps we are misisng something, and ive gone over the sheet for the last 10mins!

but i think its tractive effort cos my last engine was something like 1300lb of tractive effort :dancin:

i think the best thing is to call rpm (?) and ask how to decypher the readings. perhaps we are misisng something, and ive gone over the sheet for the last 10mins!

but i think its tractive effort cos my last engine was something like 1300lb of tractive effort :dancin:

I'll give MRT a call tomorrow and get some more information, but I think you are on the right track about the tractive effort.

Doing a quick search on the Internet, tractive effort is obtained by multiplying the engine torque by the total ratio of power train and dividing this sum by the rolling radius of the driving tyres. This means tractive effort is affected by tyre size… so your and my tractive effort figures are not comparable at all because your car was dyno'ed on a roller dyno, and mine on a hub dyno.

But, I do have a dyno sheet from a roller dyno before the latest modifications (attached) and it reads a peak 3200Nm. Could this be tractive effort as well? Because 3200Nm of tractive effort is 2359 lb/ft.

the torque value is actually is the actual torque value at the wheels! the gearing multiplies the torque available from the engine... so the torque available at the wheels is actually whats quoted... if you change to 4th gear (assuming that dyno was done in 3rd) you will get a different reading again!

you need to calculate the ratios of gearing (gearbox, flywheel, tyres etc) to get back to the engine torque value!

and as for mack trucks having less than 1000Nm torque!!! which planet do you live on???

Available output is more than 600 hp at 1,900 rpm with more than 2,050 lbs ft (2,780 Nm) of torque in the 1,000 - 1,400 rpm rev range.
~ http://www.macktrucks.com.au/mandd/index.html

velocity do u have a stock rear muffler? and was the dyno a roller or a hub one?
interested because another car 3.5 also manual with all same mods other than the headwork and cams has a very close output to yours, so i would have expected about a 15% improvement over that with stage 1 cam and headwork, but then the fact u have had to upgrade fuel system to cope with the demand suggests there is probably more there.

intersting u say its much louder and euroaccord using stage 2 had his heaps louder and plus other major problems. i was thinking of doing my cams at the next service when the timing belt geting done, but i think i will leave them alone beci like my engine smooth.

the torque value is actually is the actual torque value at the wheels! the gearing multiplies the torque available from the engine... so the torque available at the wheels is actually whats quoted... if you change to 4th gear (assuming that dyno was done in 3rd) you will get a different reading again!

you need to calculate the ratios of gearing (gearbox, flywheel, tyres etc) to get back to the engine torque value!

After speaking to MRT today, they confirmed what dingo just said.

Before the heads/cams/greddy, a roller dyno recorded 3200Nm of torque at wheels in 4th gear.

The latest dyno run on a hub dyno, recorded 1118Nm also in 4th gear. It is lower only because the dyno is attached to the hubs, so the wheels are not included in the ratio of gearing.



velocity do u have a stock rear muffler? and was the dyno a roller or a hub one?
interested because another car 3.5 also manual with all same mods other than the headwork and cams has a very close output to yours, so i would have expected about a 15% improvement over that with stage 1 cam and headwork, but then the fact u have had to upgrade fuel system to cope with the demand suggests there is probably more there.

I have a stock TJ Sports muffler which I am told flows just as well as the aftermarket Lukey muffler. I also have a high flow cat converter.

The reason the fuel system was upgraded was not because it needed more fuel than stock, but because the stock fuel pump was failing – so I decided to go with a high capacity fuel pump for the benefit of future modifications.

Stage 1 cams were not designed to provide a significant peak power gain… rather they change the power delivery.

The closest car I am aware of to mine is Manual's Magna which essentially has the same modifications as mine, with the exception of the heads/cams. Manual's car was also dyno'ed on a roller dyno, recording 143KW.

Comparing our power curves, they both run very similarly up to 5000rpm. At this point Manual's car makes peak power and drops off… my car however continues making peak power to 5400rpm and even at 6300rpm is still making over 135KW at wheels.

The other change is that the engine is now much more willing to rev up and seems to get there more quickly. If you are expecting to see 15% gains from Stage 1 cams you will probably be disappointed… but there is a lot more to an engine than just peak power.



intersting u say its much louder and euroaccord using stage 2 had his heaps louder and plus other major problems. i was thinking of doing my cams at the next service when the timing belt geting done, but i think i will leave them alone beci like my engine smooth.

If you don't want your car to get any louder then I suggest not getting the heads/cams done. Even when driving 'normally', shifting at around 3000rpm, the engine has a more noticeable growl. At 5000rpm it roars.

But there is not problem with smoothness at all… I'd say the smoothness of the engine has improved with the heads/cams/greddy.

I can only assume that EuroAccord13’s bad experiences were out of the ordinary. Back in January Dave at RPW gave me a ride in the TT Magna and despite his extreme modifications the car still runs perfectly smoothly as a daily ride too. This was something that impressed me even more than the actual power output - that a car producing this much power did not sacrifice normal drivability.

it was actually manuals car i was thinking of.... mine as a comparison of a 3.0 with all the same mods except still running stock rear muffler made 170hp on reg unleaded.

ive had stage 1 cams on old holden, valiant, and datsun engines with a very similar type of improvement (not dynoed) of a gain right across the rev range and i think from what u describe u have characteristics more like a stage 2 cam bec it seems like your whole power and torque curves have shifted up the rev range by about 1000-1500rpm. that means that if u r still making power at redline as u say then there is probably more power at higher revs! if you got stiffer valvesprings in with your cams it probably wouldnt hurt revving it out a little bit more to see, even if u got standard springs dosent seem to hurt, mine pulls to 7000rpm and feels fine.

and yer, i was really impressed by the smoothness of the rpw tt engine as well gettin a ride back in it zorst was loud tho, but then turbo cams r not as agressive as n/a cams for duration of lift.
anyway im glad i finally heard some 1st hand impression of the stage 1 cams, dont think they would have been the solution for a 3.0 auto with hole in bottom end torque. ;)

Velocity,
let me know when your going to get a brake upgrade, i know a great place that will put in huge 330mm stoppers at a very good price, it's my next mod so let me know and i'll tell u

Hey Jase, do they put twin pot callipers in as well??

I'd be interested!

i wanna see what you guys are up to! :D

Hey, Vel. What's your thoughts on the LSD? Notice anything?

There are two types of Cusco LSDs, Type-MZ and Type-RS.

Type-RS uses springs which come on gently - it's intended for street use.

Type-MZ does not use springs and comes on more harshly - it's intended for the drag strip.

Months ago when I bought my LSD the Cusco web site was not translated to English and I am ended up with the Type-MZ by mistake :mad:

Changing diffs is not something you want to do twice so for the now I'm stuck with the Type-MZ but this might change when it's time for a new clutch.

Because the LSD locks aggressively, the 2 wheels seem to try to rotate at the same speed even when cornering but they can't because of the fact that you are turning. During lower speed cornering the effects of this are:

- Steering wheel aggressively to want to straighten up and you need to grip it hard keep turning.
- You get a lot of screeching from the tyres.
- The car 'bounces' at the front as one wheel tries to keep up with the other.

I am doing an experiment with the transmission oil soon which might soften the LSD a bit (hopefully!). I think even the Type-RS will still show some of these problems, just not as harshly.

Also the LSD cannot defy physics… if you drop the clutch at 5K you can't expect to get traction with or without LSD – with LSD both wheels will just loose traction equally.

If you accept the side effects the LSD it does have its good points.

In a straight line, I have found this strategy works best… launch the car gently for the first 1 metre and then go as hard as you like after that. Even flooring it to red line, it keeps going straight down the line – even wet roads don't seem to be much of an issue since the LSD.

High speed cornering, it feels like a different car. You can go into corners much harder and accelerate out of them with little or no loss of traction! It always brings a grin to my face – the LSD has really changed what you can do with the car taking high speed corners. :dancin:

So I guess like many mods there are trade offs – I have learnt when the LSD is likely to lock during low speed cornering and you can correct for it by backing off the throttle slightly – at high speeds I have no complaints – it's awesome. Can't wait to get onto the drag strip!

So at slow speed its acting more like a locked diff rather then limited slip?,

I had a mate with a locked diff that got pulled over by cops for exesive tyre noise, whitch was caused by the tyres spining at the same speed around slow corners and making the skipping sound your expiriencing :confused:

Dave, wat type do you have?

Trav

So at slow speed its acting more like a locked diff rather then limited slip?,

I had a mate with a locked diff that got pulled over by cops for exesive tyre noise, whitch was caused by the tyres spining at the same speed around slow corners and making the skipping sound your expiriencing :confused:

Yes it's acting like a locked diff... it doesn't lock completely, but definitely more than I would like it to.

The noise is not too excessive, more annoying than anything – lucky police don't notice Magnas!

Hey Jase, do they put twin pot callipers in as well??

I'd be interested!
yeah they do
330mm rotors and commodore VT twin spot calipers, all braided lines for the front as well

Vel, you should talk Booya into buying yours (for his obvious drag type reasons) and get the RS version!

Velocity anychance that you could provide me with a Cusco part number for the RS lsd for the magna?