For the last 6 - 8 months, have had a rattle coming from the front end of my car, was sure it was my strut tops on there way out... well tonight... I found out it was my brakes!

Was approaching a round-a-bout, applied my brakes, and just heard a nasty loud Bang! (like metal snapping bang) followed by a grinding noise, pulled straight over and found this:

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m200/D-NYD/29052009575.jpg

Its not too clear, but basically my brake is now sitting on my wheel and rubbing.

So either something has come loose or snapped off, but will pull my wheel off tomorrow and do some investigating.

If its a bolt that's come loose, I will let everyone know because I wish not for this to happen to anyone else.

And that means the car ended up on a tow truck again.... really should put it on speed dial :P BUT! it wasn't engine failure!! I drove the car straight on the back haha

There are 2 schools of thought on car maintenance.

"Check everything on a regular basis"

OR

"Wait till it really stuffs up"

Which one are you? lol

Well... I do regularly check over my car, but I don't drive it too often to warrent it coming off the road AGAIN just because theres a rattle :P Theres alot of those in my car with the IC piping hitting... TBH, I was actually going to take my car off the road this week to figure out this problem, so its only ironic its broken down about 3 days before I wanted/needed. Just means this gets fast tracked.

But trust me, I do Check over my car... this was just one thing I didnt know what was wrong.... so I kinda had to wait for something to let go to figure out what was playing up. On the up side, ive saved myself $112.20 per side for strut tops. Probably gonna cost me under 20 bucks to replace the bolts... I would hope so...

Holy crap! My car does this!
Did yours do it if you applied your brakes then hit a pothole?
Mine does it if im braking hard and then hit a sharp part of the road like a pothole or bad bit of road, makes a horrible noise like something is grinding on the rotors, i replaced the rotors a few months ago and it still does it, does it everytime i approach a roundabout on my way home from work where the road has a sharp edge on it.

yep thats the one mate, not ya strut tops, its your brakes ay !! CHECK THEM OUT, the back 2 bolts that hold your caliper on I think, tighten them up again!

Well, upon further investigation, I got off very lightly. The bang, was the bolt popping out (not snapping) so I screwed it back in and tightened the crap out of it, and the bottom one which was loose, then did the left hand side and they were loose too! Wombat, check you bolts man, all 4 of mine were loose and 1 popped out. I took it for a drive after, and I didn't have 1 clonk AT ALL, so not only did I fix this in about 30 minutes, but I now know my strut tops are fine, so I've pretty much saved $224 bucks which I would have wasted on new strut tops when it wasn't the cause.

Well worth everyone having a look once and a while at these bolts, its a size 17mm socket on the back side of the caliper and a 21mm to get wheel nuts off.

/end rant / experience

Wombat, did you put new pads in with the rotors? Never put old pads on with new rotors...
benny - Good to hear it was just that mate and nothing snapped. I woulda put some blue loctite on them too to be safe...

;1054272']Wombat, did you put new pads in with the rotors? Never put old pads on with new rotors...
benny - Good to hear it was just that mate and nothing snapped. I woulda put some blue loctite on them too to be safe...

Yeah new pads too, this bang that happens in mine has happened for at least 6 months now, time to get out and have a look, so its the 2 bolts that hold the caliper on? The bolts with the grease on the stem?

Yep they are the ones. 17mm i think from memory?

Yep ben just said 17 mm, will jack her up tomorrow morning and have a look, i thought we did these bolts up pretty tight, then again i cant really rememberlol, should i be tightening the absoluete crap out of them?

Wombat,

Just check ALL the calliper bolts to be safe, eh? There are the ones you probably had undone (the slides) to change pads, but also check the ones which hold the caliper to the "knuckle" (the casting that houses the wheel hub etc).

Yep ben just said 17 mm, will jack her up tomorrow morning and have a look, i thought we did these bolts up pretty tight, then again i cant really rememberlol, should i be tightening the absoluete crap out of them?

They are your brakes, So do them up pretty damn hard.

Wombat,

Just check ALL the calliper bolts to be safe, eh? There are the ones you probably had undone (the slides) to change pads, but also check the ones which hold the caliper to the "knuckle" (the casting that houses the wheel hub etc).

Actually now that i think about it,
I changed the rotors and pads about 3 months ago and that stopped the banging noise at the same spot it does when im coming home from work, its only been doing again recently since i changed my cv shafts a few weeks ago, im guessing we didn't do that bolts back up on the calipers as hard as they need to be, yay 10 mins tomorrow and the stress will be over again:happy:

yeah, I managed to fit a pretty long handled ratched in my wheel arch and used my 1/4 panel and my weight to reef the crap out of it, so it shouldn't be going anywhere for a lil while.

Will get around to putting some loctite on the bolts when I get back to work so I can just use it for free. Seeing as I leave for bali in 5 days, least of my worries right now :)

I've read the manual for the second gen, and have never seen any mention of "reefing the crap" out of any bolt or nut. I've only seen mention of torque in Newton-meters. Am I reading the wrong manual or something?

FOOTNOTE: Use a torque wrench and read the manual for the correct setting. Overtight bolts can strip the thread or snap while in use, with more disasterous effects than a bolt that just backs off slowly.

I've read the manual for the second gen, and have never seen any mention of "reefing the crap" out of any bolt or nut. I've only seen mention of torque in Newton-meters. Am I reading the wrong manual or something?

FOOTNOTE: Use a torque wrench and read the manual for the correct setting. Overtight bolts can strip the thread or snap while in use, with more disasterous effects than a bolt that just backs off slowly.

Well, not everyone has access to a torque wrench....in the perfect world we'd all do up every bolt to the specified torque rating. In the REAL world we just do up the bolts "tight" :D i.e. rocker cover bolts not too tight, intake manifold....tight....brakes...very tight

only time I got a torque wrench was when I was doing the heads..

Yeah, I dont have a torque wrench and the bar I used isnt massivly long, just the longest one I got, so did it as tight as I could, ok sorry about my terminology but I did these bolts up "tight" last time I did my brakes and they came loose so this time there REALLY tight

I had something similar happen to a mates VS Statesman. We were driving down a street, just cruising not doinging anything to punish the car and the front right wheel locked then went nuts.

Had his car towed to his dad's shop and when we got the wheel off whatever was holding the caliper on had snapped and that was just hanging but also a big chunk of the disc was missing.

To all those who don't use a torque wrench -

They don't cost much.
Ask for one as a birthday/chrismas/father's day/mother's day/RUDD $ spend type of present.

STORY 1:
Went to a wrecker's once to buy a second hand driveshaft for a TP. Bloke had to use a 2m long breaker bar and all his weight to undo the nut. This equates to about 1,600 Nm of torque. The recommended torque is 200 to 260 Nm. The threads were stretched and showed a crystalline structure, ie it was about to fail. This nut is the biggest one on the car, but "bloody tight" had destroyed it.
STORY 2:
My current TS had a great deal of play in one of the front wheel bearings. Went to replace it, needed a 1m breaker bar and all my weight (120Kg) to loosen the nut. Once retorqued the wheel bearing showed no play! The wheel bearing was distorting under the excessive torque!

......just get a torque wrench, and use it ...... mmmmkay?

Some simple maths.

If you weigh 80Kg, that is 800 Newtons.
If you put a 1m breaker bar horizontally on a nut such as the drive shaft, and stand on the end you are applying 800Nm of torque to the nut.

TUFFTR: ."in the perfect world we'd all do up every bolt to the specified torque rating."

Not true. I don't live in a perfect world. Any nut or bolt that is part of the integrity of the car and is reliability or safety related gets torqued. Engine, suspension, brakes, wheel nuts. My life may depend on it. Body panel, exhaust, door nuts/bolts I do by feel.

MMMkay - I guess I see both sides of this story!!! If its any help, I got a torque-wrench from SupaRice a while back, wasn't much dollarz at all (I just waited until it was reduced by X-percent in catalogue, you don't seem to have to wait long for them to cut prices on-rotation).

However, with a few cases of loose bolts mentioned - I think I'll be checking the caliper bolts on my cars, cos I have recently changed to slotted front rotors and QFM pads on TJ and KJ. While I'm checking my bolts I might be getting the Loctite out as well, better safe than sorry.

Just to state the obvious - everyone is using two spanners on the bolts on the caliper slide-pins aren't we??

Yes, you need 2 spanners - 15mm and 14 mm, or 14mm socket and torque wrench. The bolt torque is quite low, and are originally used with loctite on them from the factory. (non ABS, single piston 2.6 - ABS twin piston caliper is different. )

EDIT
Correction = 17mm and 15 mm are the correct sizes. They sandwich part of the alloy caliper, so excessive torque might possibly crack this. Still trying to find the correct torque setting in the manual/ update later.

Some simple maths.

If you weigh 80Kg, that is 800 Newtons.
If you put a 1m breaker bar horizontally on a nut such as the drive shaft, and stand on the end you are applying 800Nm of torque to the nut.

So I was doing mine up at around 110kg x 40cm = 4,400nm ??

*rolls eyes*

oh gosh, I dont use a torque wrench, call the torque police.

MadMax, not even pedders/midas use torque wrenches on the brakes/suspension, they tighten them as hard as they can and they put the car back on the road. get over it. would take ALOT more time to set a torque wrench for every different bolt, so they dont bother.

On a sidenote, dont tighten anything with a bar. this CAN strip the bolt/stud/nut...not fun.

I've put my engine in three times, it's fallen out 0. amount of times torque wrench used on engine mounts=0. as tight as possible with breaker bar without using extra force from foot.

As for the caliper bolts, I put my 17mm spanner with the ring on the bolt, hit it four times hard with my palm, isnt loose yet.

PS; i DO have a torque wrench aye...but it snapped while tightening a bolt;) Kinchrome one too...

*rolls eyes*

oh gosh, I dont use a torque wrench, call the torque police.

MadMax, not even pedders/midas use torque wrenches on the brakes/suspension, they tighten them as hard as they can and they put the car back on the road. get over it. would take ALOT more time to set a torque wrench for every different bolt, so they dont bother.

On a sidenote, dont tighten anything with a bar. this CAN strip the bolt/stud/nut...not fun.

I've put my engine in three times, it's fallen out 0. amount of times torque wrench used on engine mounts=0. as tight as possible with breaker bar without using extra force from foot.

As for the caliper bolts, I put my 17mm spanner with the ring on the bolt, hit it four times hard with my palm, isnt loose yet.
:stoopid:
Torque police = :bowrofl:
Madmax - I understand what you mean...but I'm not an idiot, I know how to do up bolts and what force is required to do up most of them.

In saying that, Wheel nuts have a specific torque, and they are the only thing keeping your car in contact with the road. Do you torque up all 20 to the specified rating?

;1054300']They are your brakes, So do them up pretty damn hard.

Nope mate, do not over tighten bolts, they will stretch and snapo

Use proper locktite on them if you must, but just do them up to spec torque and they will not come loose, I have not had a brake caliper come loose in 20 years. (I have had lots of break calipers come off though, dont know why this is)


*rolls eyes*

oh gosh, I dont use a torque wrench, call the torque police.

MadMax, not even pedders/midas use torque wrenches on the brakes/suspension, they tighten them as hard as they can and they put the car back on the road. get over it. would take ALOT more time to set a torque wrench for every different bolt, so they dont bother.

On a sidenote, dont tighten anything with a bar. this CAN strip the bolt/stud/nut...not fun.

I've put my engine in three times, it's fallen out 0. amount of times torque wrench used on engine mounts=0. as tight as possible with breaker bar without using extra force from foot.

As for the caliper bolts, I put my 17mm spanner with the ring on the bolt, hit it four times hard with my palm, isnt loose yet.

PS; i DO have a torque wrench aye...but it snapped while tightening a bolt;) Kinchrome one too...

Correct, and they are braking the law. If you go to many older tyre places, they will tell you that they have to use a torque wrench. If I saw someone putting on wheels on my car with a rattle gun, I would grab it and stick it up their cake hole in an instant.

Anyone who has seen me work will have seen me use my torque wrench on all wheels, yes all 20 nuts.

Now not having a go at anyone here at all, I think this will be the first time I have ever agreed with Madmax, will prob be the only time too lol BUT

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A TORQUE WRENCH, LEAVE WHEELS AND BRAKES ALONE is simple really. In fact leave everything alone

No I do not use one for every nut and bolt on a car but then agian I have 20 years behind me and you know what force to use on non essential bolts after this time.

To the guys wanting to do their owne stuff, spend the 150 on a reasonable wrench, will be the best money you have ever spent. I have 4 at the moment all different sizes for range to tighten up the small bolts up to the really big buggers

... hit it four times hard with my palm, isnt loose yet. PS; i DO have a torque wrench aye...but it snapped while tightening a bolt;) Kinchrome one too...

Four little smacks with palm of hand = snapped Kinchrome torque-wrench. . . . . . . Ian IS the Iron-man, or maybe Man-of-steel? Lulz.
Know that's not what you meant, but just thought it was a funny juxtaposition!

Four little smacks with palm of hand = snapped Kinchrome torque-wrench. . . . . . . Ian IS the Iron-man, or maybe Man-of-steel? Lulz.
Know that's not what you meant, but just thought it was a funny juxtaposition!

lol, nah i dont knock on any sort of ratchet, only solid spanners etc.

I've heard of people saying such terrible things about people using rattle guns to put their wheel nuts back on but how bad could it be? I used to work for a tire shop and a mechanic workshop and at both places we used the rattler to get wheels on and off. Since then every tire shop I've ever been to have always used rattlers I've never had a problem.

As long as the rattle gun has a good torque range, most home compressors and rattle guns are not good enough to do this. My mates wheels came loose after 1 day using his home setup

So I was doing mine up at around 110kg x 40cm = 4,400nm ??

40cm is 0.4m

therefore if you weigh 110 kilos, on a 1m breaker bar you have the ability to apply 1100nm to a bolt...

but you didnt have a 1m bar, you had 0.4m. so 0.4x110 = 440nm.

40cm is 0.4m

therefore if you weigh 110 kilos, on a 1m breaker bar you have the ability to apply 1100nm to a bolt...

but you didnt have a 1m bar, you had 0.4m. so 0.4x110 = 440nm.


Thankyou, I didn't pass maths in school, but yeah, thanks for clearing that up

Thankyou, I didn't pass maths in school, but yeah, thanks for clearing that up

Anytime lol :)

I'm with the Torque Police on this one! Torque settings are there for a reason. Overtightening bolts not only risks stretching / breaking the bolts but also makes it a bitch to get them off next time...

I'm with the Torque Police on this one! Torque settings are there for a reason. Overtightening bolts not only risks stretching / breaking the bolts but also makes it a bitch to get them off next time...

Yeah! Rounded off sump plugs etc.

HEY! If your girlfriend applied excessive torque to your nuts you'd conplain too!

PS. Yep, all 20 wheelnuts at 100Nm. (Err, 3 cars = 20+20+16 wheel nuts) Never had a problem with warped discs on any of my cars over 30 years of using a torque wrench. Coincidence?

---=== Fully paid up member of the torque police union ===---

hahah, something has started, we now have the AMC Torque Police

Just timed myself. 15 minutes to to jack up the front passenger wheel, pull the wheel and locktite those guide pin bolts. 17 mm inner, 15 mm outer. As I don't have a 15 mm socket I didnt torque up the bolt - pleez don't tell the torque police - must get one 15 mm socket! Pads half worn, drive shaft and steering rack boots ok. Torqued up the wheel nuts though. Other side next weekend.

Correct me if I'm wrong
guide pin bolts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .30 to 34 Nm
Wheel nuts . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 90-110 Nm

Ive been going off RFT torque settings for the last 5 years and nothings come loose on me. My brake rotors were done by a mate because I was away when I wanted them done. Good to know I spent 30 mins fixing the car yesterday based on 15 minutes a side.... didnt cost me $1 stoked!

Could just use a torque bar on a rattle gun - the one I use at work limits maximum output of torque to 100nm. Perfect for wheels.

Or Torque stick whatever you wanna call it.

I hope the torque police don't read this...

I just went out and jacked up the car, tried to do up the 17mm guide bolts that go into the caliper(the ones that let you swing up the caliper to change the pads)
And there was 2 other 17 mm bolts further down that looked like they were holding some of the brakes on so i had a crack at tightening them.
On the passenger side everything was tight as, on the drivers side the guide bolts were tight, but the bolts further down were only just tight, meaning it took very little force to undo them, i tightened them up pretty hard, i will report back here in the coming days if the noise happens again.

LOL - torque police here . . . .
Calliper (alloy) is attached to a steel support that bolts to the knuckle - latter needs to be tightened to something like 100Nm, or "pretty tight" to the unbelievers.

Some simple maths.

If you weigh 80Kg, that is 800 Newtons.
If you put a 1m breaker bar horizontally on a nut such as the drive shaft, and stand on the end you are applying 800Nm of torque to the nut.

actually 784.8N as gravity is 9.81m/s^2
Kg is a unit of mass and N (Newtons) is a measure of force
basic stactic equation F=Ma (force = mass x acceleration) with acceleration being the gravitational constant of 9.81

Yeah Madmax, gees, get your facts right man :roll: :ninja:

Mea culpa (Hides face in shame and sobs quietly)

Actually, gravity varies with location.

If you were working on your Magna in a deep mine shaft, or on top of Mt Everest, the weight X big bar method would give different torques - a REAL torque wrench however . . . . .

bahahahha I love AMC Circus..... but yeah, look at the end of the day, we do things our own way.... I will quiet happily admit i was wrong when I brake something... untill then.... RFT Torque settings stay.

RFT Torque settings stay.

+1 for RFT.

WTF is RFT ??

WTF is RFT ??

really *********** tight

Oh, I see!

:facejump:

THEN:

OST = only slightly tight
TFL = too ***** loose
and
TFT(S) = too ******* tight (snap)

AND

MTS_UTFTRF = Mr T says " use the f###ing torque wrench, fool"

lol +1 MTS_UTFTRF

MTS_UTFTRF = Mr T says " use the f###ing torque wrench, fool"

acronym fail...it's not catchy. say it outloud...RFT works because it's three letters. lol

Mea culpa (Hides face in shame and sobs quietly)

Actually, gravity varies with location.

If you were working on your Magna in a deep mine shaft, or on top of Mt Everest, the weight X big bar method would give different torques - a REAL torque wrench however . . . . .

:doh: well i think Sydney is 9.79m/s^2 from the top off my head

RFT keeps reminding me of RBT
i did the bolts on my pushbike rear wheel RFT tight today, is there a torque rating for bicycle wheels?:P

actually 784.8N as gravity is 9.81m/s^2
Kg is a unit of mass and N (Newtons) is a measure of force
basic stactic equation F=Ma (force = mass x acceleration) with acceleration being the gravitational constant of 9.81

You forgot to include the weight of the bar, and also that once the bar moved at all your torque figures would be a lot less.

hahha MR T hahah use the torque wrench f00l!!!