Are there two different automatic transmissions for the Astron? One with carby and one EFI? I find this a LONG stretch to believe.

recently I sold my GB to a guy (my car's EFI) and now he's telling me that my GB wont fit his Carby car. WTF?!!!!

looking through the wiring diags in my gregorys manual and it shows two or three differences in wiring between the EFI and the Carby model with A/T.

help?

definitely the same.. efi and carby only relates to air intake

definitely the same.. efi and carby only relates to air intake

thats exactly wot im thinking. I've checked the wiring diags again and the wiring differences work on the same pins both on the TCU side and the Inhibitor switch side of things. im totally stumped as to how this mech can go around talking this crap:S

What car did he fit it to? I believe there were 2 different boxes for the TP so maybe they carried this over for TR?

What car did he fit it to? I believe there were 2 different boxes for the TP so maybe they carried this over for TR?

brought over to TR from TR.

well, the guy doesnt even know 'my car looks like yours, maybe a little earlier, but it looks like yours' :doubt:

Yeah that's right two different autos.The carby one (F4A23) is related to the TP while the EFI (F4A33) basically the same as the v6 with a different bellhousing also the carby one is smaller in size.

Yeah that's right two different autos.The carby one (F4A23) is related to the TP while the EFI (F4A33) basically the same as the v6 with a different bellhousing also the carby one is smaller in size.

so there was two different gearboxes for the 4cyl TR??

Workshop manual will tell you for sure....

Tell him theres no better time to do a efi conversion then

Interesting.... anyone got the time to list the box's made for the 1st n 2nd gen magnas for auto and manual to show the difference?

TM, TN, TP Carby were KM-175, TN, TP EFI were KM-177 from memory.....KM-177 were fitted to handle the extra power of the EFI engine. Not sure with TR though....

yeah my trans guy always remarks when i take the magna in for a transmission service, that i have one of the "earlier" transmissions that failed alot less. So there must of been at least 2 models within the TR series.

The factory workshop manual states 2 auto transmission for the TR/TS the F4A23 for the 2.6 carby and F4A33 for the EFI 2.6 and V6.

The factory workshop manual states 2 auto transmission for the TR/TS the F4A23 for the 2.6 carby and F4A33 for the EFI 2.6 and V6.

so the 4cyl EFI transmission works on the V6??

so the 4cyl EFI transmission works on the V6??

Indeed :)

The factory workshop manual states 2 auto transmission for the TR/TS the F4A23 for the 2.6 carby and F4A33 for the EFI 2.6 and V6.

are you sure about the same box for the efi 4 and 6?? coz i was gonna buy a 6cyl box but was told it wouldnt fit

are you sure about the same box for the efi 4 and 6?? coz i was gonna buy a 6cyl box but was told it wouldnt fit


well if the manual gear ratios werent *too* different, this would mean the manual box would bolt to V6 and hence ALOT cheaper...

well if the manual gear ratios werent *too* different, this would mean the manual box would bolt to V6 and hence ALOT cheaper...

I've only skimmed this thread but are you saying the EFI 4cyl Manual GB will fit a v6??????

I've only skimmed this thread but are you saying the EFI 4cyl Manual GB will fit a v6??????

NFI...

we've established that the 4cyl EFI gearbox will go onto the V6...

the bolt holes are the same for the manual, so the manual will *BOLT* up to the V6. don't know about the rest...

PS; This is highly improbable...do research...

I would like to know if it is possible.. I would have thought the v6 would be slightly stronger..

I'm sure the GB itself would be srtonger to cope with the extra power.

Automatic transaxle;

4Cyl Carb........................................ F4A23 (25 spline CV)
4Cyl EFI ........................................ F4A33 (27 spline CV)
V6 ........................................ F4A33 (27 spline CV)

Manual Transaxle;
4Cyl ........................................ F5M31 (25 spline CV)
V6 ........................................ F5M33 (27 spline CV)

Now, I'd like to know the dif between the F5M31 and the F5M33...hmmm

Manual Transaxle Gear Ratios.
____________________________4 cyl______V6_______
1st......................................... 3.166:1 | 3.090:1
2nd........................................1.833:1 | 1.833:1
3rd........................................ 1.240:1 | 1.217:1
4th........................................0.896:1 | 0.888:1
5th........................................ 0.666:1 | 0.741:1
Rev........................................ 3.411:1 | 3.437:1

btw; above gear ratios mean nothing to me because I dont understand how they work...is there anyone who could tlel me how compatible the 4cyl box would be on a V6?:confused: :confused: lol

Ok, In the TR series and the KR series there were 4 different trans if you take into account that the 4cys WILL NOT fit into the V6

The TCU and wiring was diffrerent, the early one had a 3 plug TCU where as the later box had the 2 plug ECU, at the trans end the sensors etc are also different and you can not swap them over from one to the other. YOU CAN bolt the 2 different boxes into the car bit you CAN NOT connect them.

Also, The Elite had the larger spline trans in it but still the 4cyl bell housing bolt up pattern of course, I believe this was because the car was a little heavier than the exec, just an assumption given it also has the 15" wheels and the v6 style lower control arms

I'm sure the GB itself would be srtonger to cope with the extra power.


No, its stronger to cope with the extra torque

No, its stronger to cope with the extra torque

...torque and kW are the same. kW (iirc) is the measurement of the rotational force or something like this. read it in another thread:P


Ok, In the TR series and the KR series there were 4 different trans if you take into account that the 4cys WILL NOT fit into the V6

The TCU and wiring was diffrerent, the early one had a 3 plug TCU where as the later box had the 2 plug ECU, at the trans end the sensors etc are also different and you can not swap them over from one to the other. YOU CAN bolt the 2 different boxes into the car bit you CAN NOT connect them.

Also, The Elite had the larger spline trans in it but still the 4cyl bell housing bolt up pattern of course, I believe this was because the car was a little heavier than the exec, just an assumption given it also has the 15" wheels and the v6 style lower control arms

Thanks Mal. When I was looking at the workshop manual last night, I did notice there were a few different boxes for V6 and I think two for Astron. All the V6 'boxes were 27 spline. One of the Astron boxes was 27 spline and the other was 25. so there's no possible way that the 4cyl box can connect to a V6? Interesting as to why it would be like this (manufacturing wise- i'm guessing it'd cost more) when the boxes themselves are the same one, must have their reasons I guess...

...torque and kW are the same. kW (iirc) is the measurement of the rotational force or something like this. read it in another thread:P


No, power is calculated by multiplying torque against the rotational speed of the engine. They are 2 seperate entities, torque cannot peak higher than total power. Gearboxes are given a specified torque rating where maximum values are calculated so as to not shorten the life of the gearbox components. Power does not really affect a gearbox's mechanisms since it is usually a linear increase as revs rise, whereas torque can peak at low RPM's and put large strain on the driveline.

...torque and kW are the same. kW (iirc) is the measurement of the rotational force or something like this. read it in another thread:P



Thanks Mal. When I was looking at the workshop manual last night, I did notice there were a few different boxes for V6 and I think two for Astron. All the V6 'boxes were 27 spline. One of the Astron boxes was 27 spline and the other was 25. so there's no possible way that the 4cyl box can connect to a V6? Interesting as to why it would be like this (manufacturing wise- i'm guessing it'd cost more) when the boxes themselves are the same one, must have their reasons I guess...

No, KW is not Torque

KW is a metric version of HP
Torque is measured in NM

The complexity of making a v6 trans fit an outdated design 4cyl would have been horrendus, the cost would have far outweighed the worth

No, KW is not Torque

KW is a metric version of HP
Torque is measured in NM

The complexity of making a v6 trans fit an outdated design 4cyl would have been horrendus, the cost would have far outweighed the worth

hmm...i need2 find this thread i read this in...fair enough...'coz knowledge is power' :)