i originally posted this in the Car Audio section, but thought better of it so didnt submit the thread and put it here instead.
actually - i guess it fits in both areas somewhat - mods please feel free to move if i have put this thread in the wrong place.

went to townsville on thursday, and purchased THIS (http://www.alpine.com.au/products/product.asp?modelID=369) from Russ Adams car audio place thingy.
got them to install it for me too (got a pretty sweet deal on it too - so i was happy)

took em 2hours to fit it up which was no big deal.

fast forward to today, when i was driving home (400kms) to mackay i noticed something with the cluster now.
when i drive on the highway - i always have my headlights on, and during the day i turn the brighness to max to be able to read the cluster.
since i haddnt really driven the car at night in the ville, i never readjusted the brightness back down to where it normally is for night driving.

about 50kms from home - i noticed that when i adjusted the dimmer on the dash, the cluster wouldnt dull/dim down at all.
pulled over, and flicked the headlights on and off - the gear indicator / dot LED will dim out when the lights get turned on, and the rest of the dash (AC gear selector etc) all function as they should when the headlights are turned on (Become backlit etc)

played with the dimmer thing, turning it all the way to the left to click it to daytime brightness and back to the right to full dim - there is no change to the cluster at all.

all my dash lights are working as they should be, but the cluster doesnt dim out.

the installer dude was saying that he spliced into my factory wiring to install the head unit - but left the factory plug intact.
head unit works fine - although it does NOT dim out when the lights are turned on
i checked the settings (when i was pulled off the road and had a flick thru the booklet) and the settings are correct for the unit for it to dim when the lights go on.

being i picked up the car during the day from the installers, i didnt think to test the lights / cluster then and there - and coz i didnt do any night driving in the ville with the new head unit i didnt realise... till i was 50kms from home...

long post i know, but trying to cover as much info as i can.

does anyone have any ideas what i should be looking for?
the installation and head unit came with a 3year warrenty - but the warranty being at a store 400km away... makes it hard for me to just duck down there for em to have a quick look...

EDIT - just to point out, im not complaining about a dodgy install, overall i am VERY happy with the install, its just the night time functionality thats the 1% not perfect right now - esp as i do a reasonable amount of night time driving too

"Not-IAN" (Edited! My bad - sorry, Doddski! Obviously my memory cells are not what I thought they were).

Contact the store/installer as soon as possible and explain what has changed and state calmly that you are not satisfied and seek their help in resolving the problem. Make a note of whom you speak with, and what they suggest be done to rectify. Ask if there is an installer or auto elec nearer to you who they use for warranty work (its worth a shot). Meanwhile, let the AMC brains ponder this mystery........

just tried ringing them now...
it just kept ringing and ringing and ringing...
maybe at 4.30 on a saturday afternoon - they have gone home :(

will have to try again to phone them tomorrow i spose :(

(Elwyn - my name isnt Ian :P )

Is there a wiring diagram for the Alpine HU?
Does the Alpine HU function (supposedly) with a bright/dim (daylight/night) 2 levels, or is it intended to dim with the car dash?

Just wondering how Alpine handles HU illumination - do they have a single wire, which takes dash-dimmer from car and (intends) varies illumination with the dash rheostat? (which I think is the OEM arrangement with my KJ)..... Do Alpine have a dash illumination wire and a seperate dimmer wire? (No doubt there will be online sources for this info, which I don't know how to locate - but if you can read the documentation with your HU and advise, that might help my brain function more clearly about this).

<<Raaarrrkk, Raaarrrk>> That's the sound of a buzzard circling...... what was your OEM HU and what plans do you have for it, Doddski?

just tried ringing them now...
it just kept ringing and ringing and ringing...
maybe at 4.30 on a saturday afternoon - they have gone home :(

will have to try again to phone them tomorrow i spose :(

(Elwyn - my name isnt Ian :P )

Nah dude they won't be open that late on Saturday. Monday fo-sho. PM me if it gets to the point where they need a brick through the window and I'll ride by on my bicycle.

Unlug the dimmer wire for now?

Nah dude they won't be open that late on Saturday. Monday fo-sho. PM me if it gets to the point where they need a brick through the window and I'll ride by on my bicycle.

Unlug the dimmer wire for now?

haha!

cheers for the thought / offer, il keep it in mind, but im hoping we wont need that!

yeah i guess i will have to pull it out and have a looksie / pull the dimmer wire (hopefully i wont blow myself up in the process~! :eek2:) haha

Is there a wiring diagram for the Alpine HU?
Does the Alpine HU function (supposedly) with a bright/dim (daylight/night) 2 levels, or is it intended to dim with the car dash?

Just wondering how Alpine handles HU illumination - do they have a single wire, which takes dash-dimmer from car and (intends) varies illumination with the dash rheostat? (which I think is the OEM arrangement with my KJ)..... Do Alpine have a dash illumination wire and a seperate dimmer wire? (No doubt there will be online sources for this info, which I don't know how to locate - but if you can read the documentation with your HU and advise, that might help my brain function more clearly about this).

<<Raaarrrkk, Raaarrrk>> That's the sound of a buzzard circling...... what was your OEM HU and what plans do you have for it, Doddski?

currently, the headunit is not dimming out at all - the backlights are on, and the screen appears to be at daylight brightness.
going through the menus, found the dimmer bit, and played around with that witht he headlights on to see if it made a difference.
tried turning the dimmer OFF vs Auto vs On and manually adjusting the dimness for when its ON to its dullest... made no difference to the clust illumination

in my old Alpine headunit (with motorised indash screen) - it only allowed for a single illumination trigger / wire, and as such it was installed the backlights where illuminated and i had to turn on the dimmer myself. but that didnt effect the dash cluster dimming and it didnt matter too much, coz i rarely had the screen out / had it set to close automatically when i turned the ignition off etc

re std head unit - its just the standard rada 6stacker indash jobbie.
it still works AFAIK too - i found the security code for it too the other day.

just reading through the (useless) booklet thing, and apparently, this unit does NOT have an illumination wire.
there is nothing mentioned about it.

looked at the different sections - and they all came up no mention of a illumination / dimmer wire for the harness for the unit.

the book mentions it being ABLE to dim out and how to do it yourself, but doesnt say WHICH wire from its supplied alipne harnes is the dim/illumination wire. looks like i might have to pull it out and have a look

so it now does appear so, that the unit has been connected incorrectly to this car which has stopped my cluster lights from dimming out?


i might go see autobarn tomorrow and have a chat to them first, to see what they say about my situaion (auto barn here in mackay are áuthorised' alpine dealers...

took the car out tonight for mini magna meetin, and it was VERY annoying having my cluster lights on full bright. i just wish i had of noticed it in Townsville - so it coulda been sorted out then and there.

(looking back, appears this thread may have been better suited to car audio afterall perhaps?)

yeah seems like its the illumination wire from the deck (orange wire)
pull the deck out and see if the wire is connected, if it is chop it off and you should be back to normal

yeah seems like its the illumination wire from the deck (orange wire)
pull the deck out and see if the wire is connected, if it is chop it off and you should be back to normal

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/doddski_03/P1010001.jpg
the only orange wire it mentions - is orange/white for the Monitor Control lead (from what i understand, i think that lead you connect to other monitors to be able to control the centre from another monitor?)
either that.. or im completely wrong!!! (car audio/installation is not my knowledge it seems!)
sorry for aveage picture - i dont have a scanner, so i took the next best option!

My best guess is that they hooked up constant 12V to your illumination wire! I did this by accident.. essentially will just fully power all your lights from normal 12V.

how good are you at soildering?
i may be wrong but it may be the orange/white wire causing your problems
maybe you should of posted in the car audio section lol

Usually this happens when the illumination wire (which is orange from the car, not the headunit) isn't connected, not when it is connected. Personally I'd just take it back to the installers for them to sort out, but if you want to DIY it, check and see if the illumination wire is connected, and if it is make sure its connected to the right wire on the headunit harness, and if its not connected work out what wire is dimmer on the headunit to connect it to.

When the headunit doesn't have dimmer I can't remember if your supposed to earth the illumination wire from the car or give it power, I guess use a test light to find out if theres current running through it when your lights are on, and we'll go from there.

from memory the std headunit has an illumination feed and a rheostat out perhaps they tied those two together on the illumination wire
shouldnt cause a fault if the illum feed only is connected to the new headunit or if both wires are left off
it only serves the function of dimming the display when the lights are on and if you dont do long night trips then it aint a problem

Usually this happens when the illumination wire (which is orange from the car, not the headunit) isn't connected, not when it is connected. Personally I'd just take it back to the installers for them to sort out, but if you want to DIY it, check and see if the illumination wire is connected, and if it is make sure its connected to the right wire on the headunit harness, and if its not connected work out what wire is dimmer on the headunit to connect it to.

When the headunit doesn't have dimmer I can't remember if your supposed to earth the illumination wire from the car or give it power, I guess use a test light to find out if theres current running through it when your lights are on, and we'll go from there.

ummm my deck has a orange illumination wire, pretty sure its the same with more decks
also looking at the wiring diagram that was psoted up shows that the deck has no illumination wire
so best best would be to find it on the main (car) harness to see if anythings wired up to it

well - because i HATE pulling my dash apart, i checked the fuse first - and its perfectly good working order (tested it etc)

so it looks like now, i will have to pull the dash apart to get at the harness to see whats plugged in.

looking at my old headunit with its aepro adaptor harness still attached - the dimmer/illumination was attached to an orange wire, but the head unit didnt function as it was ment to (backlighting always on unless set otherwise)
i was able to live with that - esp coz it ment i still had control over my cluster brightness!

went asking around today at Autobarn / wow sight and sount / Jaycar / supercheap to see thier thoughts on it.
autobarn didnt really want to offer any advice on it unless i was paying for them to fix it
wow was willing to get me to come in on thursday and they would have a look at it for me - for FREE
jaycar - not the best help, but gave me the business card of an auto electrician that would be able to help me
supercheap - dont even know why i bothered asking them coz they where useless as t**s on a bull

back to the car i go - wish me luck :) haha

ok

after a while messing around with the car, have worked out what the problem seems to be (amoungst now apparently OTHER problems created from install)

the dimmer wire in the cars harness - has been used as an earth/battery ground (attached to the black wire in the picture attached above)

looking at all the other joins vs the mitsu wiring harness - a LOT has been joined to the wrong places..
the front left speaker has had the negative attached directly to/thru the mitsu wiring ground in the harness!!!!!!!!!!! (yet that speaker does still work)

the POSITIVE from todays pulling apart of the dash - i worked out that if unplugged Alpine plug 24 from the headunit (see pic above) i could turn my car headlights ON and dim them in and out again.

i was going to cut the dimmer wire until i worked out all the other missmatching of wires and joins... which would net a result of it not working at all - or worse, melting the H/u or something else more expensive...

looks like i shall have to phone townsville tomorrow from work and see what theyare going to do about it!

my last question - WHY OH WHY did they NOT use adapter plugs?! why insist on soldering behing the stock plug (to keep the stock plug - but that worked fine before coz it USED the stock harness plug to adapt to the alpine harness...)
coz that worked just fine for my old Alpine headunit instal (different plugs - allready checked to see if i could recycle them)

ok - il stop posting this now before i sound bad.

so far - have worked out why the dash doesnt dim. thats a start :)
now to get that fixed, and all the other wiring issues sorted to :(
i will keep thread updated

And that's what you get for trusting a shop to install the headunit for you lol

I wouldn't be touching it if its that messed up, let them deal with it and if your keen watch them do it so they do it right.

The Speaker only needed an Earth wether this is the earth on the back of the Speaker which is linked to the common ground on the headunit or a direct ground..


Dude. I gotta ask the Question why 400k's away from Home ??

I really do feel sorry for you and wished I only lived around the corner or I would have popped over and re-done it for you but alas there is 2000k's between us...

The reason why they didn't use adaptor plugs is that would have cost them to get in and even then no gaurentee they would have gotten the correct adaptor plug..

It is common practice to strip and solder just behind the factory plug... this allows you to return the Vehicle to stock if you wish...

got it 400kms away, coz i (thought i) could get it cheaper than buying it here in mackay and getting it installed.

the idea was to save money - but apparently i may have to make another road trip (+ accom and fuel and food etc etc) so in the end i dont think i will have saved ANY money outa this exercise.
that - and i like road trips and going to townsville (its a much better place than Mackay thats for sure!)
but the outcome of the repairs to it all, will be sorted/planned once i have phoned them tomorrow to calmly discuss my concerns.
if i have to go back to tha ville - have to go back. either that, or i could just get it re-installed here in mackay. gotta talk to them first before i can decide what to do next.

oh well - we live and learn - and pay for it in the end :)

EDIT - i do understand the idea of soldering behind the plug, just thought it may have worked without this hassle if they had the correct adapter plugs for it.

phoned the shop today - they are more than happy to have a look at the situation and repair it as required so my car functions 100% again, however as expected they want me to take the headunit and car back up there to them.

fair call i spose - they are the ones offering the warrenty on it so they get to fix it.
i will get it re-wired here in mackay, will work out cheaper in the end.

100bucks in fuel + 150bucks for one nights accom + food + misc expenses, looking at a 300+ trip just to get the free/warranty work done.

And its positive that i can get it rewired for less than that for SURE
will call in some favours at work and get it costing me less :)

The 502 doesnt have an illumination wire. it has a light sensor on the front of the face plate that senses ambient light to automatically dim the display.

as for your dash lights there is no need for the instrument cluster to come out to install a deck so i highly doubt they have forgotten to plug the dimmer switch back in as it should never have been dissconnected.

Orange white on this deck is Reverse sense for a reverse camera trigger. Do not connect it to anything unless your fitting a reverse camera.
The magna harness has no earth. The deck can either earth through the chassis of the deck via the brackets or you can connect the earth in the harness to the body of the car directly. The Illumination wire in the factory harness is Green/white. Nothing should be connected to that wire with the deck you have.

Orange white on this deck is Reverse sense for a reverse camera trigger. Do not connect it to anything unless your fitting a reverse camera.
The magna harness has no earth. The deck can either earth through the chassis of the deck via the brackets or you can connect the earth in the harness to the body of the car directly. The Illumination wire in the factory harness is Green/white. Nothing should be connected to that wire with the deck you have.

yeah i worked that out

its also the cause of the dash cluster being on full brightness all the time - the illumination/dimmer wire attached to the earth of the deck.
when i unplug the deck completely, i have brightness adjustment again.

its getting annoying too - i drive home from work and need the lights on now, gets a little distracting.
gotta make a call tomorrow to get it all sorted out. will call one of the suppliers for work and they will come to me to do it. (i love convenience haha)

the installer told me that he ran his own earth to the chassis of the car while we talked about the unit.

cheers for the thoughts / help tho :)

just to update this thread a bit.

got the thing rewired completly on Monday at work by an auto electrician.

i have adjustment on the cluster again - i cannot begin to tell you guys how annoying it is not being able to adjust these tiny things.

they did a good job as well - best part, hasnt cost me anything (yet) :)

the auto electrician said that i was damn lucky that i didnt blow a cluster up - the only thing that saved it in this case, was the potentialmetre (spelling?) - also known as the brightness controll on the cluster, it stopped the cluster getting full power (and melting it etc)

Good to hear its sorted.

This is why I dont trust anyone to touch car electrics apart from auto electricians....

Potentiometer - voltage divider/resistor. Used to control voltage coming into a circuit, like volume control, gains on amps (sometimes), dimming lights etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiometer

The amount of cars I have been asked to do dash work on and ended up re wiring audo installs I have lost count on. Some are so dodgy that I wonder how the hell it worked or why it did not go up in flames in the first instance.

I would say that the illum wire on the car harness was bridged into power, this will cause your issue, have seen it many times

Also for ALL magna third gen owners, using the bracket to earth is fail. There is a teb up under the dash that goes from the dash to the main bracket and makes a great clean earth, use that

Hi had JB-HiFi start an audio install on my car once, and when I saw they were using a flat head screw driver and wedged it between the top air vent and centre climat control panels to get to the 2 screw holding in the middle panel, I told them to piss off. I went home and installed it myself, after I told them I want a refund on the install money. bunch of idiots.

The amount of cars I have been asked to do dash work on and ended up re wiring audo installs I have lost count on. Some are so dodgy that I wonder how the hell it worked or why it did not go up in flames in the first instance.

I would say that the illum wire on the car harness was bridged into power, this will cause your issue, have seen it many times

Also for ALL magna third gen owners, using the bracket to earth is fail. There is a teb up under the dash that goes from the dash to the main bracket and makes a great clean earth, use that

My friend and I wired a Series 6 RX7 show car some 5 years ago, 280hrs of wiring work.

Car comes back under a new owner as nothing works anymore. His mate done an audio install to promote his shop.

He cable tied two looms together and left the wires on the floor. Result? Melted loom on cable tie, and partly down the line, and a blown ECU.

Also cut a lot of earth cables.

Looked at the wiring for the audio - both D34 optima's wired in series. 4 0AWG power cables held together by a bolt - lying on the body of the car. 2 Capacitors, wired through a distro block - but not wired to amps.

$2000 Signal processor left sitting between batteries and in between power cables, not tied down.

Every cable lug was about 2 sizes too small - result? 0AWG cut down into 4AWG with strands everywhere.

Thats from what I could see - so there went about another 20hours of work fixing that up....

I HATE the majority of audio installers.....

yeah i get too many DIY's and Audio shop F@#$# ups.... why cant people just admit to themselves that they cant do it and take it to an autosparkie?
yesterday had a volvo towed in because the owner installed a stereo blew heaps of fuses and killed the startermotor trying to start it.... final bill was $600
if they brought it in to us to fit the stereo then it would only have cost $99.....

yeah i get too many DIY's and Audio shop F@#$# ups.... why cant people just admit to themselves that they cant do it and take it to an autosparkie?
yesterday had a volvo towed in because the owner installed a stereo blew heaps of fuses and killed the startermotor trying to start it.... final bill was $600
if they brought it in to us to fit the stereo then it would only have cost $99.....

but sometimes, the 'professional install' isnt the best either!

take my case above as an example
i knew i couldnt do it / didnt want to attempt it, so thought the easiest thing would be to pay for it all to be installed by the people that do lots of car audio installs.

i ended up getting an auto electrician co to fix mine (and they came to me and didnt charge me for it either) had to rewire everything in the end coz he kept finding mistakes in wiring.

its a bit of a game of chance with any install i think - most of the time, it gets done right, but there are odd times when it goes wrong by the professionals