So we all know that the manual boxes in Magnas rev about 300-500 rpm higher than the autos in top gear. My old auto 2.6 TR used to sit on 2200 rpm at 100k and Mt TS 5 speed 3 litre sits on 2500 at 100k.

Why would they be designed like this? I really wish my 5th was little taller to bring the revs down a bit. What would be the design rational behind this short gearing? :wtf:

So we all know that the manual boxes in Magnas rev about 300-500 rpm higher than the autos in top gear. My old auto 2.6 TR used to sit on 2200 rpm at 100k and Mt TS 5 speed 3 litre sits on 2500 at 100k.

Why would they be designed like this? I really wish my 5th was little taller to bring the revs down a bit. What would be the design rational behind this short gearing? :wtf:

ok why is this so? mines the oposite. My Auto used to sit at about 2500-2600 RPM@100km/h and my manual now sits at about 2200-2300.

I could have been done to improve acceleration in top gear on highway driving. no idea. lol.

ok why is this so? mines the oposite. My Auto used to sit at about 2500-2600 RPM@100km/h and my manual now sits at about 2200-2300.

I could have been done to improve acceleration in top gear on highway driving. no idea. lol.


Sounds like your overdrive was busted.

Who cares what autos do? Autos suck.

The gearing of the manuals still allows a 3.5L third gen sedan to do Melbourne to Sydney on one tank, so it's a good compromise of economy and responsiveness IMO.

Sounds like your overdrive was busted.

nope, overdrive was fine. lol. in fact the gearbox was in surprisingly good condition compared to the engine, so my bet it was a second box.

Who cares what autos do? Autos suck.

The gearing of the manuals still allows a 3.5L third gen sedan to do Melbourne to Sydney on one tank, so it's a good compromise of economy and responsiveness IMO.

Ay!,the are great for lazy pricks like myself,but ou do realise a fiddled auto can shift quicker than a manual right? or do you just mean Magna autos suck??

You do realise a fiddled auto can shift quicker than a manual right? or do you just mean Magna autos suck??

Or how about a CV that doesn't shift at all?

I think manuals suck, to much effort changing gears.

Ever considered the tacho and speedo might not be 100% accurate? In hot weather my tacho sits on a different reading at 60kph when compared to cold weather. lol

I think manuals suck, too much effort changing gears.

:hmm: lazy sod! :nuts:

my ts v6 manual revs at around 3000 at indicated 110kmh(realy about 103)

my ts v6 manual revs at around 3000 at indicated 110kmh(realy about 103)

Mine does an indicated 120k at 3000rpm

my ts v6 manual revs at around 3000 at indicated 110kmh(realy about 103)

Something is not right there, Defiantly should not be sitting at 3/5th's of its powerband cruising.

Just to throw a pigeon amongst the cats - in third Gens the auto definitely runs about 2000rpm at 100kmh, while the manual is doing 2400rpm at least. Talking direct experience of 3.5litre TJ Sports (ser II) versus KJ ei (series I). Dunno if it was different with the 3.0litre in 3rd gens.

The Manual Sports definitely has more get-up-and-go (bit more engine power, no slush-box, and the lower final-drive gearing), but the auto KJ does better fuel economy on country cruising miles. So there. LULS

Just to throw a pigeon amongst the cats - in third Gens the auto definitely runs about 2000rpm at 100kmh, while the manual is doing 2400rpm at least. Talking direct experience of 3.5litre TJ Sports (ser II) versus KJ ei (series I). Dunno if it was different with the 3.0litre in 3rd gens.

The Manual Sports definitely has more get-up-and-go (bit more engine power, no slush-box, and the lower final-drive gearing), but the auto KJ does better fuel economy on country cruising miles. So there. LULS
Yep, I sit around 2100rpm @ 100km/h in mine, baring in mind the 18"s do affect the speed of the cat abit, the rpm was a little lower on 16"s. 3L auto revs higher from memory 2300-2400, 5sp 3.5 is similar to that of the 3.5 manual. 4sp 3.5 auto is the best for economy so I'm told.

3.5L gearing allows you to hit 60km/h at ~6500 in first, and 100 in second at ~6500. Beats an auto any day. You can rev match on downshifts, skip gears in both directions, rev past the redline if you feel like it, slip the clutch to get off the line quickly, dump the clutch for burnouts, and make the engine pull from very low revs. Auto = no control and no fun.

5th - 80kmh 2000rpm, 100kmh 2500rpm, 120kmh 3000rpm
Ay!,the are great for lazy pricks like myself,but ou do realise a fiddled auto can shift quicker than a manual right? or do you just mean Magna autos suck??I just don't like autos full stop. I've fanged an Audi A6 (3.2FSI Quattro) with a VERY good 6 speed auto that revmatched on downshifts and did whatever you told it to, but I still prefer a manual

Speeds per 1000rpm for the 3rd Gen and 380 are as follows:

3 ltr 4 speed auto = 43.6 kph/1000rpm

3.5 ltr 4 speed auto = 46.6 kph/1000rpm

3.5 ltr 5 speed auto = 44.3 kph/1000rpm

3.5 ltr 5 speed manual = 39.6kph/1000rpm

3.8 ltr 5 speed auto = 52.9 kph/1000rpm

3.8 ltr 5 speed manual = 37.1 kph/1000rpm

At 100kph my AWD shows about 2300rpm and at 120kph reads 2800 rpm.

Cheers,
Alan

2000 TJ Sports manual:
@3000rpm in 5th = 120km/h

2000 TJ Sports manual:
@3000rpm in 5th = 120km/h

Ditto.

Probably worth considering too that everyones speedos aren't calibrated the same, and an indicated 100kph or whatever isn't true 100kph, or the same as someone elses indicated 100kph.

Maybe not, but on 16s my speedo was 1% optimistic.

Yeah gotta say I've thought that they rev high too. I posted a thread earlier with queries, but it seems that the manuals just do sit about 2700 - 3000 at 110 on freeway
3.5L maunal TH wagon no mods 2800 110km/h

I was wondering just how possible it would be to go a different ratio-ed gearbox?
or more intreguing still, a 6 speed? anyone?
Madmagna, what might you have to say on the topic?

cheers

Hey guys the quiestion was why the hell on manual 5th gear makes engine rev so high at 110kph Really wat the reason for it, why didnt they make it taller? I mean why do you need fast acceleration in 5th when you are doing 110, really why???? Our engines have plenty on torque to pull the car at cruise speed of 110 just fine at around 2000-2100 rpm. Yes keep first 4 gears as they are but they should have made 5th one taller........

my ts v6 manual revs at around 3000 at indicated 110kmh(realy about 103)

Old mans tr dose 2500 at 110-115kmph


Hey guys the quiestion was why the hell on manual 5th gear makes engine rev so high at 110kph Really wat the reason for it, why didnt they make it taller? I mean why do you need fast acceleration in 5th when you are doing 110, really why???? Our engines have plenty on torque to pull the car at cruise speed of 110 just fine at around 2000-2100 rpm. Yes keep first 4 gears as they are but they should have made 5th one taller........

U mean like the six speeds in holdens that basicly idle along at 110

I'm 99% positive it's for cruise control. so the car can pull itself up a hill.


If anyone is interested, 2nd gen V6 manual's can get a 16% taller 5th gear. ;)

;1304878']I'm 99% positive it's for cruise control. so the car can pull itself up a hill.


If anyone is interested, 2nd gen V6 manual's can get a 16% taller 5th gear. ;)

Yea i guess since it can not down shift itself!

;1304878']I'm 99% positive it's for cruise control. so the car can pull itself up a hill.
Thats an interesting thought, although Mitsubishi recommend against using Cruise on hills for this reason. I suppose it'd make sense they'd make some allowances though.

Yea i guess since it can not down shift itself!

The autos do downshift on hills while in crruise mode, well my old KE Diamante did. My 30M Diamante will do 135kmh odd in second at about 7000rpm (5 speed tippy)

There is a bit of info out there on close ratio transmissions ( good drivers gearbox) as compared to normal ratio's.
Google " Wide-ratio vs. close-ratio transmission " for some explanations on why a manual has a gearbox designed this way.

Yeah The 3litre TF Manual sits about 2700rpm at 110kph... Sorta makes me want a 5 litre V8 which sits at 1200rpm in 5th..(both manuals)
Its not as bad as my Old 93 1.6litre Vitara which sat at close to 3600rpm at 100kph...

The autos do downshift on hills while in crruise mode, well my old KE Diamante did. My 30M Diamante will do 135kmh odd in second at about 7000rpm (5 speed tippy)

Wow, that's a tall 2nd gear for a 5 speed.
My Magna's 5 spd tippy redlines about 90kph in 2nd. That's a touch over 6000rpm, if it could reach 7000rpm, then it would be about 105kph. Apparently the 4 speed autos could reach about 140 in 2nd gear (about 6200rpm I assume).

Interestingly, my old Daihatsu Applause (1.6L SOHC 16V 5spd manual) 2nd gear was exactly the same - 90kph and cruising in 5th may have been lower rpm in that than the Magna - I'm always looking for 6th gear with the tiptronic! :)

um.. to "SHOOT" so i wiki'd your close ratio, and can't quite see why a close would be a "god drivers" box. seems that the only practical application of a close ratio is in racing conditions, and specifically NOT on the freeway, where it would seem likely that the majority of us would. I may have missed something.. unless its better to keep the car revving high. Suppose its all rather subjective.

um.. to "SHOOT" so i wiki'd your close ratio, and can't quite see why a close would be a "god drivers" box. seems that the only practical application of a close ratio is in racing conditions, and specifically NOT on the freeway, where it would seem likely that the majority of us would. I may have missed something.. unless its better to keep the car revving high. Suppose its all rather subjective.

My mates XR4 Fiesta is closely geared like you woulnd't believe. I figure its only real practical use is to make use of a small motor. On a track foot flat to the floor he can't get more then 190km/h out of the thing cause it's topping out in 5th. I know the TR on the dyno topped out at 215km/h in 4th (approx) at 6300RPM.

;1306902']My mates XR4 Fiesta is closely geared like you woulnd't believe. I figure its only real practical use is to make use of a small motor. On a track foot flat to the floor he can't get more then 190km/h out of the thing cause it's topping out in 5th. I know the TR on the dyno topped out at 215km/h in 4th (approx) at 6300RPM.

Really where's you 3rd gear finish?? Given mine will hit nearly 180 in 3rd at 7000...

Most 5 speeds are like that, max speed is reached in third or fourth gear, rather than fifth. It means that it will cruise at lower revs in fifth, but if you want some overtaking ooomph you have to drop down 2 gears. Lancers do exactly the same.
With the Magna gearing, if you want lower highway revs, you could get a new set of diff gears made up or use bigger tyres and recalibrate the speedo. You would then find the car is pretty gutless in top gear, and the fuel consumption is very poor. I would rather have an engine that sits on half its maximum power revs at 110 kph and get 8L/100 km and feel unstressed, rather than an engine that sits on 1,500 rpm at 110 kph, drops down a gear everytime you shift your foot on the accelerator, and gets 12L/100 km.

Mine sits @ 2400rpm 100km/h in 5th, it's a 3L manual box on a 3.5L motor :)
I'm stoked considering the SR20 Pulsar sits on 3500rpm @ 100k's although it's redline starts @ 9k.

380 Auto

5th @ 100kph 1900rpm

8-9L/100kmh (hwy)

Shifts to 4th only if you bury the foot, otherwise remains in fifth for hills etc.

My TJ sat pretty happy on 2400 at ~115km/h from Sydney to Newcastle. However it would drop down to 2000rpm if there was a slight downhill slant which did not require engine braking.

My r34 skyline would be at 3200rpm at 120km/h, good for overtaking going from 110-120, full boost unleashed lol. My dad's '98 AU used to do 110 at 2950, '98 camry 110 at 2900, '04 corolla 110 at 2800rpm, and his new '09 camry does it at something like 2200rpm. Might have to double check the exact rpm on a couple of them, but moral was that they all seemed to be round 3000rpm.

Most 5 speeds are like that, max speed is reached in third or fourth gear, rather than fifth. It means that it will cruise at lower revs in fifth, but if you want some overtaking ooomph you have to drop down 2 gears. Lancers do exactly the same.
With the Magna gearing, if you want lower highway revs, you could get a new set of diff gears made up or use bigger tyres and recalibrate the speedo. You would then find the car is pretty gutless in top gear, and the fuel consumption is very poor. I would rather have an engine that sits on half its maximum power revs at 110 kph and get 8L/100 km and feel unstressed, rather than an engine that sits on 1,500 rpm at 110 kph, drops down a gear everytime you shift your foot on the accelerator, and gets 12L/100 km.

Well put Madmax, by the way I love your forum name.

There is a commonly held misconception that taller cruising gears= lower fuel consumption. Well true up to a point. The top gear ratio is chosen largely in part to optimize fuel consumption for the speed that equates to the legal speed limit. So in most of Oz where looking at 100-110km/hr.

Basically the engineers work out what power is required to enable the car to cruise on a relatively flat road at the given speed. That is the power needed to overcome all the forces that exist, including aero drag (the biggest force), driveline friction, and road/tyre friction. Then they look at the characteristics of the engine and choose an engine speed that gives the lowest Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC) while still providing the necessary power to get the job done. So if the legal limit was say 140km/hr you would find most cars slightly taller geared in top, but not by a great deal as increasing your speed by 30% increases aero drag by around 70%. This means more power from the engine and higher engine speeds to do the job.