Hey guys

Is there a reason mitsubishi never made the awd models avaliable as a manual?

Is it possible to do a manual conversion on any/all of the awd models? What if any problems/downsides are there to doing so?

Hey guys

Is there a reason mitsubishi never made the awd models avaliable as a manual?

Is it possible to do a manual conversion on any/all of the awd models? What if any problems/downsides are there to doing so?

Main reasons were cost and very limited sales projection for a manual AWD magna (needed alot of sales to recoup R&D costs). Hell even the FWD manual models had a very low build rate (when we were building 360 cars in a 8 hour shift, the FWD manual build numbers were around 6-10cars per day).

Main reasons were cost and very limited sales projection for a manual AWD magna (needed alot of sales to recoup R&D costs). Hell even the FWD manual models had a very low build rate (when we were building 360 cars in a 8 hour shift, the FWD manual build numbers were around 6-10cars per day).

makes financial sense, as well as with current threads being something long the lines of 90% of new cars sold are automatics hence why companies like Ford are investing in the ZF auto gear box for the Falcon.

I remember hearing that they had a development mule that was manual, but that as stated above, the costs and development timeframe left it on the sideline.

I think they should've just thrown the VR4 gear into it and be done with it...
I considered looking into a conversion myself, however then I learnt that the VR4 galants were the same price as AWD magnas, so why would you actually bother (other than throwing a heap of money at something simply to have something different, which I can completely understand)..

Hell, if I had the cash, I'd have an AWD magna in my garage right now in pieces trying to work out how to shoehorn some form of manual box into it for the pleasure of being 'the first'... I'm sure if the end result prooved to be not too overly expensive, several would want to follow you... However, I'd also have an RS4 in the driveway as a daily as well.....

But alas, I digress..


The simple answer, is that it is probably possible to convert one to manual, however you could not use the FWD manual gearbox, as it lacks the hardward and support to be AWD, so you'd need to select some other AWD manual gearbox from another model (such as an evo, or a vr4, etc) and then work out how to stick it in there, get the rest of the drivetrain to work properly as well as ensuring that the gear ratios were suitable for the magna. It's no small job to do yourself.

Can't remember if it was manual or not but a couple of the MMAL developmental guys were telling me about a 380 powered one that went well.

When the AWD Ralliart workshop was being closed down in Homebush they were selling a spare Ralliart engine and a manual conversion package on a pallet at the end of 2003, early 2004.

If we had the late 2003 early 2004 forum the posts about this would be there. There were even some photos.
Rally AWD's I understand were manual initially.
Workshop manual even has one reference to AWD manual!!


Gearboxes.
The EVO gearbox could possible be persuaded to fit.
However there are 2 problems -
1) Final drive ratio is set up for a high revving turbo motor. Diff helical gear is driven directly from the gearbox driven shaft.
2) The engine mounting side is not the same shape. The Magna bellhousing has a big Vee shaped notch cut into it a the top to clear the water outlet.
all the other hardware matches up. things like gearbox mount position, clutch slave cylinder position, swittchgear and even the gear selector mechanism. Magna gear selector and cables just bolts straight on OK.


I suspect that the better way is to modify a Magna 5 speed manual gearbox bymaking an adaptor plate onto the diff housing and changing the gearbox output shaft.

I have both gearboxes on the garage floor, unfortunately a major house refurb is still under way.

Gerry

Any comments on the VR4 box??

Ive stated on here many many times what we used in the "proto" manual AWD but im not going to go thru telling it allover again.

When the AWD Ralliart workshop was being closed down in Homebush they were selling a spare Ralliart engine and a manual conversion package on a pallet at the end of 2003, early 2004.

If we had the late 2003 early 2004 forum the posts about this would be there. There were even some photos.
Rally AWD's I understand were manual initially.
Workshop manual even has one reference to AWD manual!!


Gearboxes.
The EVO gearbox could possible be persuaded to fit.
However there are 2 problems -
1) Final drive ratio is set up for a high revving turbo motor. Diff helical gear is driven directly from the gearbox driven shaft.
2) The engine mounting side is not the same shape. The Magna bellhousing has a big Vee shaped notch cut into it a the top to clear the water outlet.
all the other hardware matches up. things like gearbox mount position, clutch slave cylinder position, swittchgear and even the gear selector mechanism. Magna gear selector and cables just bolts straight on OK.


I suspect that the better way is to modify a Magna 5 speed manual gearbox bymaking an adaptor plate onto the diff housing and changing the gearbox output shaft.

I have both gearboxes on the garage floor, unfortunately a major house refurb is still under way.

Gerry

The 2 AWD magna rally cars were both 5 speed autos (as per the actually production cars) as thats what the production class rules are about.

We used a 5 speed RS box in the R&D awd mule at MMAL

Helping a 'brother' out..

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?p=516716&highlight=manual+AWD#post516716

There is a member on here (cant remember who) that introduced himself in the members lounge saying that he was currently in the middle of a manual conversion on a AWD magna using many custom bits and bobs. Im sure if you searched it would appear.

We used a 5 speed RS box in the R&D awd mule at MMAL


Just to let ya know during R&D for the AWD magna, we had a EVO6 5speed manual equipped AWD magna and a jap EVO7 6speed manual AWD magna test cars AND before anyone asks, The cars were stripped and scrapped once the AWD magna was on the market.


jap evo7s are 5 speeds, not 6 speeds.. i presume that was a typo?


in that case any evo 5,6,7,8 or 9 (5 OR 6 speed) gearbox could be made to fit as all are interchangeable

final drive seems to be the biggest problem from what spud tell us

id go for a 5 speed from an evo 5,6 or 7 .. be the best value for money. i can get my hands on an evo6 5speed for $1k for anyone interested....

evo rs 5 speed gearbox?

in that case any 5,6,7,8 or 9 gearbox could be made to fit as all are interchangeable

final drive seems to be the biggest problem from what spud tell us

They used that box as it was one they had easy access to due to the "Group N" lancers using them in rallying and the EVO6 they used for compliancing of the TME 6.5 was a RS so they had spares from that (hope that makes sense).

They used that box as it was one they had easy access to due to the "Group N" lancers using them in rallying and the EVO6 they used for compliancing of the TME 6.5 was a RS so they had spares from that (hope that makes sense).

yeh makes sense. i edited my post after you had posted, sorry mate

yeh makes sense. i edited my post after you had posted, sorry mate

Yeah i saw that lol and yes when i wrote that old post (2006) i forgot to mention, the reason for trialling the 2 difference boxes was one was a close ratio unit and the other a wider ratio unit (mainly using whatever parts they could find for little amount of $$$).

hey jason, the rear diff in the awd magna.. is that the LSD out of a evo7 RS? transfer is out of e7 yeh?

There is a member on here (cant remember who) that introduced himself in the members lounge saying that he was currently in the middle of a manual conversion on a AWD magna using many custom bits and bobs. Im sure if you searched it would appear.

Thats the member Stevies

hey jason, the rear diff in the awd magna.. is that the LSD out of a evo7 RS? transfer is out of e7 yeh?

Rear diff is the mechanical LSD unit, so yes it would be out of a RS (also GTA evo used them), Auto gearbox is also out of the GTA

Rear diff is the mechanical LSD unit, so yes it would be out of a RS (also GTA evo used them), Auto gearbox is also out of the GTA

well i dont see why this conversion is so hard...

so many guys have done manual conversions on gta evo7s without an issue

I'm a little surprised that noone has tried..

I'm a little surprised that noone has tried..

i want to

like i said i can get my hands on a evo6 gearbox cheap

awd magnas are cheap

so once my evo8 is sold ill seriously consider this as a project

I'm a little surprised that noone has tried..

Like I said....
A
MEMBER
ON
THESE
FORUMS
IS
CURRENTLY
ATTEMPTING
IT

hhmmm, this is on my wish list for next year....know the right people....can i convince them.:io:

hhmmm, this is on my wish list for next year....know the right people....can i convince them.:io:

Ya gunna take about 200-300kgs of weight out of the car as well?

Ya gunna take about 200-300kgs of weight out of the car as well?Converting it to FWD would be a good way to start.

Ya gunna take about 200-300kgs of weight out of the car as well?

:happy: AHHAHA

Converting it to FWD would be a good way to start.

:snooty:

Taking the big, heavy Automatic gearbox out and replacing it with a manual gearbox will reduce a heap of weight. I'd guess probably close to 50-60kgs.

Taking the big, heavy Automatic gearbox out and replacing it with a manual gearbox will reduce a heap of weight. I'd guess probably close to 50-60kgs.

Youd be surprised that the auto AWD box isnt all that much heavier (approx 25kgs) than the AWD manual box (so i was told by SKR)

Youd be surprised that the auto AWD box isnt all that much heavier (approx 25kgs) than the AWD manual box (so i was told by SKR)

Fair enough. 25kgs isn't to be sniffed at tho.

Hey Gremlin! you've changed your tune.....2months ago you're saying my AWD was a fat ****d POS and the only cars worth owning were Evo's or Ralliarts....short term memory loss?

Hey Gremlin! you've changed your tune.....2months ago you're saying my AWD was a fat ****d POS and the only cars worth owning were Evo's or Ralliarts....short term memory loss?

Probably because it's an auto.. :P

Hey Gremlin! you've changed your tune.....2months ago you're saying my AWD was a fat ****d POS and the only cars worth owning were Evo's or Ralliarts....short term memory loss?

no way in hell it'd be left stock power... id be bored in 5mins..

turbo'd straight after manual was working

awd auto is a fat slug... even boosting an awd auto isnt worthwhile IN MY OPINION (dont get upset, each to there own)..

manual awd magna on boost... im interested

no way in hell it'd be left stock power... id be bored in 5mins..

turbo'd straight after manual was working

awd auto is a fat slug... even boosting an awd auto isnt worthwhile IN MY OPINION (dont get upset, each to there own).. lol

manual awd magna on boost... im interested

So a "bigger" EVO in otherwords ;)

no way in hell it'd be left stock power... id be bored in 5mins..

turbo'd straight after manual was working

awd auto is a fat slug... even boosting an awd auto isnt worthwhile IN MY OPINION (dont get upset, each to there own)..

manual awd magna on boost... im interested

Not upset...curious! how much do think this "big" Evo would cost?

Say 13ish for a car, probably 10 for the turbo set up (6-7 for a sprintex?) and then probably another 3 for the manual box?

$22,000-eleventy billion

Guys,
You obviously did not carefully read my posts and understand the implications

Both the Magna and EVO 5 speed transmissions that I have in my Garage have integral bellhousings.

I was hoping, when I started, that the bellhousing was a separate casting.

Then it would be a piece of cake to swap a V6 bellhousing onto the EVO gearbox..


I have placed the spacer plate from the Magna V6 gearbox onto the front face of the EVO gearbox.
Only some of the holes line up.

As said before, the issue is at the top of the bellhousing.
On the EVO the top 2 holes have a straight line of casting between them
On the Magna, between the top 2 holes is a deep Vee shape down in the casting.

This means that an EVO gearbox would have to have the top cut away to clear the water outlet.

Again as I have posted before.
I suspect that the easier way is to swap the key EVO internals into a Magna FWD gearbox and make a mini adaptor plate so that the AWD transfer box casting will then bolt up.


Also don't forget that the final drive diff ratio is what is called the centre differential on an AWD driveline.
Despite the title "Centre" this diff is in exactly the same place in the main gearbox. All the other 2 diff ratios do is to increase the output shaft speed to feed down the propshaft. The rear differential then reduces the propshaft speed to the rear driveshafts.

Gerry

Guys,
You obviously did not carefully read my posts and understand the implications

Both the Magna and EVO 5 speed transmissions that I have in my Garage have integral bellhousings.

...
As said before, the issue is at the top of the bellhousing.
...I suspect that the easier way is to swap the key EVO internals into a Magna FWD gearbox and make a mini adaptor plate so that the AWD transfer box casting will then bolt up.
Gerry

But, the factory did it's mules with the EVO boxes, so it must be possible...
Perhaps an alteration on the water outlet pipe or something.
Of course, my comments are completely speculatory not having had the gearbox off my AWD, and never having seen an EVO box...
Just saying, if the factory could do it, and the main reason for them NOT doing it was simply that the development cost (including importing gearboxes, warranty testing, destruction testing, etc) was not worth the investment, not because sticking a manual evo box on the magna was too expensive.

Now, if only we had the ability to speak with the people that actually did the originals.....
Even if the conversion cost ended up being $5000-$6000, I think it would be a worthwhile investment (obvioulsy the initial person would have to spend more than that to work out how to do it unfortunately...)..

Actually.. We happen to have an AWD TJ sitting in at uni.. I wonder if I could 'convince' someone to allow me to do a final year project of converting it into a manual..... (unlikely I'm sure, but we can always 'dream')

1) Final drive ratio is set up for a high revving turbo motor.

evo motor hardly revs much harder than the magna v6.. evo rev cut is roughly 7,800 but i never go past 7,000.. its pointless... magna engines can rev to 7,000rpm easy.

sooo hows it this an issue mate?

are u saying the front and / or rear diff ratios are different from magna to evo?

i've come to the conclusion that the awd magna is NOT running the 5 speed auto as found in the GTA evo 7.. it cant be.. it will NOT bolt up.. i'm looking at pics now of a 5 speed magna box and 6 speed evo box.. i can see exactly what spud is talking about with the V section cutout on the top of the magna box...

as ive said heaps of guys are removing the 5 speed auto's from there gta evo 7s and bolting up 5 or 6 speed manual boxes from an evo....the gta evo 7 auto box could not have been taken "as is" and chucked into the awd magna.. it would not bolt up because of the differences spud has pointed out..

so..

looks like the magna awd is running an auto box that was built just for it.. DAMN...that sux

-----------

one more thought..

madmagna tells me that you can fit a v6 magna engine into a 4 cylinder car (3rd gens).. without changing mounts.. it uses same mounts.. BUT the gearbox needs to be changed aswell.. ie 4cylinder magna gearbox wont bolt up to v6 magna engine.. (same sort of problem we're seeing here it would seem)

now..

the 2.4L magna engine, from a 3rd gen, is suppose to be a bolt in mod for an evo..

taking all that into account.. does that mean an evo motor AND gearbox, together, would bolt straight into an awd magna?.. could be another idea.... evo7 front cut anyone...

We might be lucky and have the 'right' bloke notice this and respond tonight...if not i can probably find out soon and post up.

Evo Diff ratios.

No the front and rear diff ratios are only there to speed up the propshaft from the front and then to reduce the revs to the rear driveshafts.


What you would call the Final Drive ratio is set by the diff in a FWD gearbox, and the CENTRE DIFF in an AWD Magna / EVO driveline.

When you look at the schematics, in fact the gearbox diff is in exactly the same place. It is driven by a helical gear that is part of the gearbox output shaft. This gear engages in a matching larger diameter helical gear that is bolted conventionally onto the actual diff.

Searching the web, you can find different final drive sets for the EVO. they contain a new output shaft and helical gear.




Gerry

spud..

im with you on the above

but i fail to see the issue

why are you worried that the final drive is "different"... what negative outcome are you envisioning mate?

Basically,
Magna for economy should run a nice low numerical final drive ratio.

The auto has a lower final drive than a manual.

I don't want it revving its head off in 5th on a motorway cruise.

However, in the scheme of things, just getting a manual gearbox in would be the achievement.

That is why I am looking at the Mix'n'Match idea.

Use an existing Magna gearbox.
Swap in the EVO diff.
Make a small adaptor on the back of the Magna gearbox to mount the transfer box.
Use the EVO splined final drive inner output shaft that sticks out both sides
Use the EVO hollow splined shaft that directs the drive to the transfer box.

Gerry

AWD frictional losses aren't good for economy either.

with u now spud on your issue with the final drive.. (my evo revs pretty hard on the highway, your right)... get a 6 speed from a evo 8 and you'd be a tad happier perhaps?

your idea of using the magna box sounds interesting aswell. could be a go .. ive had gearbox's and transfer case's out of a few evo's (and back in again) so i can picture the setup on them.. same deal with magnas, had boxes out of them.. so i can see where your coming from...


i'm guessing an awd magna 5 speed AUTO box has the exact same bolt pattern and bellhousing shape as a magna 5 speed manual box? (would have to surely)

gremlin: The final drive, or 6th gear ratio (on the EVO 6 speed) I should say perhaps, is very short - as you know 6th @ 110km/h is about 2900rpm. You can get longer final gears for the RS 5 speed box to make 5th rev at about 2500rpm @ 110km/h. I wonder if that would be any help...

good point disciple

Been doing some research this morning, and found something I think is 'interesting'.

Looking through the part catalogue, we find that the torque converters used in the Diamante AWD and Evo VII Auto AWD are the same part, however they appear to use a different 'adapter', and the Diamante AWD adapter appears to match the same layout used on the 3.5L Auto 2WD..

So, my 'proposition' is that the auto box was mated to the magna using the Diamante adapter..
Check out the comparison yourself..

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7577/torqueconverters.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/i/torqueconverters.jpg/)
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7384/housingadapter.th.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/i/housingadapter.jpg/)

The next thing I'm going to look at is if the manual boxes might 'mate' up in a similar way (but I'm not expecting them to).

edit:

Actually, that's odd... I just noticed that the 'adapter' for the AWD diamante has nowhere for the transfer case to bolt onto, so that must be wrong in the CAPS program... Clearly... So, the problem is that there is no manual diamante for us to 'borrow' an adapter from... I'm assuming... I guess that would be a part that would have to be custom made in order to get it to fit, that or modify the evo box as suggested to 'cut out' the offending area, assuming it will actually mount to the magna V6.

Just out of interest were any Diamantes ever AWD and manual? I've noticed a few 2nd and early 3rd gen AWDs of which we never received...

Bang on,
It is probably not correct to call the front of the gearbox an Adaptor.

It is really the front of the gearbox with integral clutch housing.


The issue is that I am not aware of a Manual V6 engine AWD gearbox. I may be wrong of course, although I have spent over a year looking at the many Mitsubishi manuals out on the web.

If we can find this elusive part then it should be a bolt on swap to an EVO box of the same vintage.

My great idea is to dissassemble an old rooted Magna manual box that I have in the garage and the EVO box that I have and measure / campare the long gearbox output shaft, and diff helical gear to see if the EVO bits are interchangeable with Magna bits.

Gerry

Just out of interest were any Diamantes ever AWD and manual? I've noticed a few 2nd and early 3rd gen AWDs of which we never received...

According to the CAPS program, the earlier models may have been, however the gearbox is on the wrong side of the engine...

Bang on,
My great idea is to dissassemble an old rooted Magna manual box that I have in the garage and the EVO box that I have and measure / campare the long gearbox output shaft, and diff helical gear to see if the EVO bits are interchangeable with Magna bits.

Gerry

I think you'll find that the SA blokes at Mitsibishi made up a custom 'cover / adapter' for the manual box, as they would've had all the tools there to easily to this in the factory as a once / twice off, but that it was not done, as it would've been a custom part to tool up for for JUST the manual AWD magna. No other vehicle in the mitsubishi range would've used it, so the expense was too great, and thus why it was not done..

Give even if you swapped internals, you still need to machine up a custom cover, it would be cheaper to just make the 'cover / adapter' for the evo box.
Until we hear otherwise from the mitsubishi development gurus, I'll believe this was what happened.

cut the bellhousing off a magna box and evo box.. weld bellhousing from magna box onto evo box?

In a word - Distortion!!

Because the cover is a functional part of the gearbox and will be controlling many very tight clearances this will be very iffy.

Maybe a 6000 grade Aluminium plate, grafted in at the key points.

I need to take a photo of the Magna V6 sandwich plate on the EVO gearbox.




Gerry

Oh, and it looks like the V6 VR4 uses the same gearbox / bellhousing adapter as the evolution BTW...

Oh, and it looks like the V6 VR4 uses the same gearbox / bellhousing adapter as the evolution BTW...

thats what my research found aswell...

Bang on,
It is probably not correct to call the front of the gearbox an Adaptor.

It is really the front of the gearbox with integral clutch housing.


The issue is that I am not aware of a Manual V6 engine AWD gearbox. I may be wrong of course, although I have spent over a year looking at the many Mitsubishi manuals out on the web.

If we can find this elusive part then it should be a bolt on swap to an EVO box of the same vintage.

My great idea is to dissassemble an old rooted Magna manual box that I have in the garage and the EVO box that I have and measure / campare the long gearbox output shaft, and diff helical gear to see if the EVO bits are interchangeable with Magna bits.
Gerry


I can tell you that a certain EVO racer (Zero knows who i mean) here in SA used some internal parts out of a 3.5L magna manual in his 5 speed evo box back in 2002. I remember stripping the magna box down to get the parts out of it for him so he could get his car going for a race meet.

I can tell you that a certain EVO racer (Zero knows who i mean) here in SA used some internal parts out of a 3.5L magna manual in his 5 speed evo box back in 2002. I remember stripping the magna box down to get the parts out of it for him so he could get his car going for a race meet.

The only problem I see with using a magna box case instead of the evo box case, is that you will still have the same problem of having nowhere to mount the transfer case onto, as the bellhousing end does not have the appropriate mounting point for the transfer case, so you are in the same position as if you had've just used the evo box as is, with the bellhousing taken off... Or am I missing something?

No,
I think that this drives down a choice of 2 routes.

1) -
Magna V6 casing, swap in the key EVO diff output bits, Open out the output shaft seal area, graft on a small adaptor plate to mount the transfer box.

I really have not looked carefully at the outer side of the gearbox, here it should be possible to use the EVO outer casing.
So it becomes a hybrid box.


2) -
Cut and shut the key areas of the clutch housing of an EVO box to get to fit to the V6 engine.
Then the issue is the final drive ratio. It may be possible to put the Magna output shaft and diff helical gear onto the EVO diff.
Based on an earlier comment I would realistically expect that a lot of parts are directly interchangeable.

Then you have an AWD Magna gearbox with a sensible final drive ratio.


It comes down to a balance of the pros and cons.

1) I was thinking of a shaped casting that is glued and bolted onto the existing gearbox casting.
The big issue here is that the outer drive transfer shaft sits in a larger diameter seal in the gearbox. So this area would have to be resized for the larger seal.
If it stuffs up , does not really matter as a replacement gearbox is not really expensive.

2) If the V6 change area is relatively small. So, with care, welding would not affect the critical dimensions that affect the gearbox operation.
Then swap in the Magna diff helical gear and the mating gearbox output shaft and use the EVO gear set.

Gery

Open out the output shaft seal area, graft on a small adaptor plate to mount the transfer box.

Ah... So you are suggesting this ouput area is not as structurally important to the casing and is more about sealing the box and providing a 'mount' for the transfer.

Would that mean that perhaps option 3 would be:

3) Use evo manual box with bellhousing from manual magna, with ouput section removed and a small adapter plate added for transfer case..


On a slightly seperate note, Would the bellhousing be cast or machined? Just thinking in terms of cost to get several made up (along the lines of the ezyboy inlet manifold)

On a slightly seperate note, Would the bellhousing be cast or machined? Just thinking in terms of cost to get several made up (along the lines of the ezyboy inlet manifold)

that'd be cool.. get an evo box casted up with the bellhousing modified to match the magnas..

im not paying for the first one though :facejump:

that'd be cool.. get an evo box casted up with the bellhousing modified to match the magnas..

im not paying for the first one though :facejump:

I didn't mean the entire box obviously... Just the bolted on bellhousing. Then you should be able to mount the evo manual box directly into the AWD magna, and away you go...

I wonder how I could go about milling up the first one out of cheap material to create a dummy...
Hmm...
Maybe I need to have a chat with some people at uni... Then once the first is cheaply milled, use that to create a mould that could be used for casting... That would have to be good experience surely... But I digress (I do that alot).

Now.. Where to get hold of a manual evo and magna bellhousing (magna would be an easy u-pull-it trip surely)....

I didn't mean the entire box obviously... Just the bolted on bellhousing.

bellhousing is not bolted onto either magna OR evo gearbox.. there all one unit....

Both in my garage.
Problem is the time to clean the old and very tired Magna Gearbox.

I know where I can get a laser 3D scan done, or I can bring it into work and get one of my technicians to do a manual 3D scan with our Faro arm.

Casting would not be a problem, just coat the area required on the gearbox casting and make an epoxy splash.
If necessary erect a temporary frame around the area so that the splash is thick enough to allow for the finish machining of the final casting.

Grind the outside of the splash flat. Tidy the periphery.
The splash represents the casting that we are trying to make.

Mount on a plate, add a feeding system and send out to an Aluminium foundry.

Make casting/s.

Get casting/s back.

Fettle new casting to fit onto the existing gearbox casting.

Drill mounting holes in new casting and into original gearbox casting. Tap bolt holes in existing gearbox casting.

Check fit.

Araldite and bolt new casting onto original gearbox casting.

Mount assy in CNC,
Face off to correct height.
Drill and tap the transfer case mounting holes. machine out new oil seal recess.
These dimensions will come form the EVO gearbox.

Assemble gearbox.
This will require the EVO AWD specific bits into the Magna gearbox.

I have left some of the smaller steps out.

BTW I am the Technical Manager in a high speed Disamatic iron foundry.
Worked in Powertrain Group Staff in the UK, did the conrod gauging for the Cortina 1.6 and 2.0 OHC engine when I was an apprentice amongst other things.
20+ years UK auto manufacturing experience.
Currently have access to a pattern shop, pattern makers, 3D design and toolpathing, CNC, and manual 3D measurement with a Faro arm.
We get aluminium specialised castings made for us locally from patterns that we make.


Gerry.

Gerry,

Your the man for the job indeed!

bellhousing is not bolted onto either magna OR evo gearbox.. there all one unit....

Thats odd.. It appears as a seperate part that is bolted on in the parts catalogue..
Or do you mean that the bellhousing creates the inside surface of the gearbox and is thus integral.

The engine side of the gearbox is one big casting.

Towards the engine it forms the clutch housing.
Towards the lhs of the car it is one side of the actual gearbox.

There is an enormous bolted together joint all the way round.

NOT like a conventional RWD car that has a separate clutch housing casting that is bolted to the gearbox casing.

Gerry

Someone must buy EZ BOY's (http://aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70057) car and convert it to a manual. It would be an absolute beast of a car, well more than it is anyway i guess!

would buying a 6a12tt or 6a13tt from a legnum with manual box possibly be a cheaper way?

would buying a 6a12tt or 6a13tt from a legnum with manual box possibly be a cheaper way?

Possibly..

Does anyone know if the 6a12 or 6a13 can be made to bolt into the magna?

They use the same gearbox in the legnum as the evo, so that bolting in will no longer be an issue as the manual AWD box should already bolt to both the magna shell and the 6a engine.

This was the problem I came across when I initially thought about it before buying my magna, as I realised that buying a magna, plus engine plus gearbox and getting it fitted would be more expensive than just buying a VR4 in the first place..

Edit:

Just did some quick research, and google brought me back to an old topic on here interestingly enough...
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60321

You'll note that in here, you'll find the following two quotes, so perhaps this is easier than imagined..


mating the 6A to a standard 3.5l Magna Manual Box, The Fto box matches right up, just needs a custom clutch cover made up (just touches the inside of the casing) And the FTO box bolts straight into the magna chassis, just needs custom mounts (original ones are too short). And the halfshafts need a CNC 1mm off and they slide straight in. Linkages all match up without a fuss.


Yeah they will, just a bit of clearance issues with the rear exhaust Manifold & turbo with the firewall, Tbutcher did the conversion and said that there is about 10mm clearance between the Hotside and the firewall.

So, if this is correct, then mounting the 6A shouldn't be too hard, and the AWD gearbox should bolt straight in and match up to the AWD magna with ease.... Well.. That's my reading of it anyways, bhut until someone actually purchased said stuff and gives it a go, we'll never know I guess..

I'd like to see more on the magna / verada with the 6A13 in it...

6a13TT (VR4 motor) has been put into a magna at least 2 times with 2 cars in VIC I know of.

Interesting..

According to wikipedia, the diamante (what the AWD magna got it's floorpan from) in 2002 had a 6A13 SOHC as an option...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_6A1_engine#6A13

Interesting..

According to wikipedia, the diamante (what the AWD magna got it's floorpan from) in 2002 had a 6A13 SOHC as an option...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_6A1_engine#6A13

that would be the 6g73 (2.5) AFAIK no 6a motors were in diamantes but prove me wrong.

upon clicking onto the diamante page there is no 2nd gen listed with a 6a motor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Diamante

;1110185']that would be the 6g73 (2.5) AFAIK no 6a motors were in diamantes but prove me wrong.

upon clicking onto the diamante page there is no 2nd gen listed with a 6a motor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Diamante

What do you mean... Wiki can NEVER be wrong... :P

Here is another reference to the diamante getting that engine.. http://www.mivec.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4164

can't think of any car with a 6A13 DOHC N/A engine, infact the only cars I can think of with the 6A13 is the EC5A/W Galant/Legnum and F34A Diamante.


edit:

Hang on..

If the 6G73 came in the first gen, doesn't that mean it was the wrong way around for the second gen??
These photos allegedly of 6G73s show the gearbox on the wrong side...
http://www.enginegroup.ru/images/motors/400/id674.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YwRYjoITGYc/SQDv69-nwPI/AAAAAAAAEYw/lpuaYtz0vGU/s1600-h/6G73+FF4WD+AT+KL7450.JPG

Hang on..

If the 6G73 came in the first gen, doesn't that mean it was the wrong way around for the second gen??
This photo allegedly of a 6G73 shows the gearbox on the wrong side...
http://www.enginegroup.ru/images/motors/400/id674.jpg

that doesn't mean much. the 6G72 SOHC came in both 2nd and 3rd gens... manufacturers often turn engines around for different purposes.

cheers,
.wook

True...

Fair enough...
However, I also just found another intersting thing in that the Glalant shell was sold in america with a 6G72 in it (in FWD only of course). Found on wiki, and part program confirms this.
So, given the 6G72 could bolt into the galant where the 6A13 sits in a Vr4, surely that's a good sign that the 6A13 can bolt in where a 6G73 / 6G72 used to sit no?

sure, if you have enough time and money you could put any engine into any car.

whether it bolts in cleanly and lines up with transmission is another story. as with rotating engines, manufacturers tend to be able to add engine/transmission mounts wherever they feel like. if you're up to playing around with mounts, driveshafts, exhausts, etc... then you could do anything.

6G72, weather east west or west east will still bolt up to a 3rd gen or 2nd gen gearbox.

If you wanted to use a 6A motor you will need a bellhousing adaptor or 6A gearbox.

Many people have put 3rd gen 3.5L motors coupled with the 3000GT heads into 3000GT's (engine bay same as 2nd gen)

If you wanted to put a 6A motor in, get a front cut, you'd be stupid not to.

Anything is possible.

Well, the idea that has been asked is bolting in the full AWD drivetrain from the VR4 galant into the AWD magna.

We already know the AWD magna uses the exact same torque converter as the auto EVO (part numbers match).
The only difference appears to be a slight modification to the engine side casing that needed to be modified to clear an outlet on the V6 engine as per the fitment in the AWD diamante.
The EVO manual uses the same gearbox as the VR4 manual...

So, logic dictates from where I'm standing, if the auto box bolts into both, then the manual box must also bolt into both... Surely.

Once you have the gearbox bolted in, then the two options are:

a) Modify the manual trans casing to clear the outlet from the 6G73 as was done with the autos.
b) Find an engine that bolts in that matches up with the gearbox already (such as the 6A13TT possibly).


Does anyone know much about this 'TButcher' car I keep hearing about..
Supposedly an AWD 6A13TT powered TH magna??

DSMAZDAGTR: I'm not saying you're wrong, BUT, you should really check out to make sure that a VR4 gearbox is the same as the EVO 5 speed. Reason I say this is because I think the VR4 5 speed gearbox is the same as the Magna gearbox, and the EVO 5 speed is completely seperate.

surely the easiest thing to do (as mentioned a month ago in this thread) is to get an Evo VII manual gearbox and make it fit.

the running gear is Evo VII GTA (auto 'box), and it CAN'T be that hard to drop a manual from the Evo VII into the magna. diff ratios and the like can be sorted out easier than making everything work for a totally different engine/gearbox combination.

DSMAZDAGTR: I'm not saying you're wrong, BUT, you should really check out to make sure that a VR4 gearbox is the same as the EVO 5 speed. Reason I say this is because I think the VR4 5 speed gearbox is the same as the Magna gearbox, and the EVO 5 speed is completely seperate.

I'm going off part numbers listed in the wincaps catalogue which match up (both diamante AWD and EVO VII have 26060A torque converters).
And, the VR4 manual box is what I was looking at, not the auto one (I'd have to check them again as I don't have screen shoits of them).

To be completely honest, I was comparing the Diamante parts, as I can't manage to find a catalogue that includes the AWD magnas (has the 2WD ones, but very unfortunately not AWD). But I'm not claiming to be right. Just putting out what my research has found

I'm going off part numbers listed in the wincaps catalogue which match up (both diamante AWD and EVO VII have 26060A torque converters).
And, the VR4 manual box is what I was looking at, not the auto one (I'd have to check them again as I don't have screen shoits of them).

To be completely honest, I was comparing the Diamante parts, as I can't manage to find a catalogue that includes the AWD magnas (has the 2WD ones, but very unfortunately not AWD). But I'm not claiming to be right. Just putting out what my research has found

Actually.. I might have been reading those numbers wrong... I'm now officially confused...

however, I can say without a doubt that both the evo VII GT-A and the Diamante AWD both use a version of the W5A51 transmission.

Actually.. I might have been reading those numbers wrong... I'm now officially confused...

however, I can say without a doubt that both the evo VII GT-A and the Diamante AWD both use a version of the W5A51 transmission.

You're not confused - well sort of, lol. You're talking about automatic gearboxes (W5A51) which was used in the EVO 7 GTA (automatic EVO) The 5 speed manual version is all together different.

This is my understanding... have I confused the issue even more now?

You're not confused - well sort of, lol. You're talking about automatic gearboxes (W5A51) which was used in the EVO 7 GTA (automatic EVO) The 5 speed manual version is all together different.

This is my understanding... have I confused the issue even more now?

I understand that.. The manual gearboxes appear to be W5M51's..

I mean confused about the 26060A being the same part number..
I thought that when the diagrams as shown in my earlier post had the same number (EVO VII auto and AWD diamante both had 26060A), that meant it was the same part...
But I think that was the wrong assumption which is where I'm now confused..

I was looking around tonight, and realised you could drill into the diagram, and another list was provided that had a whole heap of different information such as:

EVO VII Auto
From / To / ?? / ?? / ??
0112.1 / 0210.3 / MR983752 / 2700A080 / W5A51-3-DZH
0211.1 / 0211.3 / blank / 2700A080 / W5A51-2-D1Z

Diamante AWD (didn't bother with from/to as too many to type in)
MD974079 / W5A51-2-E5A
MD974345 / W5A51-2-E5A1
MD974849 / W5A51-2-E5A2
MD975896 / W5A51-2-E5B3
MD976139 / W5A51-2-E5B4
MR553209 / W5A51-2-EZB

Sorry if this sounds really simple - but aren't we talking about changing a 5 speed auto to a 5 speed manual? And if so, the AWD Diamante part would have no relevance because it relates to an automatic?

simple fact is a magna 5 speed and a evo 5 speed have different bell housings (actually quite different). so an evo 5 speed aint guna bolt up to a magna 3.5L v6 without some custom work 2 the bell housing of the evo gearbox...

only other way around it, which has been suggested, is to remove the front diff from a magna 5 speed manual gearbox.. drop in the centre diff from an evo manual gearbox.. and some how custom mode the magna manual box to take the centre diff output and also somehow bolt the transfer case to the magna manual 5 speed box..


both are custom.. both arent guna be cheap

i still reckon drop in both engine and manual box from an evo would be easier.....

Sorry if this sounds really simple - but aren't we talking about changing a 5 speed auto to a 5 speed manual? And if so, the AWD Diamante part would have no relevance because it relates to an automatic?

I'm aware that the Diamante parts are irrelevant, however I'm assuming the diamante gearbox is the same as the AWD magna gearbox (given it has the same V6 and AWD). If the CAPS catalogue included AWD magnas, then I'd be looking at those instead but noone can seem to provide one of those. The one I have found seems to be the closest match including the 2WD magna stuff and much later models including 380's, etc.
The diamante details are simply being used by me as replacements for the AWD Magna auto components if that makes sense.


...an evo 5 speed aint guna bolt up to a magna 3.5L v6 without some custom work 2 the bell housing of the evo gearbox...

only other way around it, which has been suggested, is to remove the front diff from a magna 5 speed manual gearbox.. drop in the centre diff from an evo manual gearbox..
...
i still reckon drop in both engine and manual box from an evo would be easier.....


There is an option #4 which is why I'm comparing things again...

Drop in the 6A13TT and W5M51 from a VR4.

Drop in the 6A13TT and W5M51 from a VR4.

ah very nice..

ah very nice..

That of course relies on the engine fitting in nicely of course..

That of course relies on the engine fitting in nicely of course..

Theres a 3rd gen driving around VIC, its the most riced up thing youll ever see, that has done this conversion.

Theres a 3rd gen driving around VIC, its the most riced up thing youll ever see, that has done this conversion.

Anyone know how easy it was?
Bolt in? Custom mounts? etc?

not the best quality but this is one i saw on ebay a yr or so ago i believe its fwd
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3853/ed461.th.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/ed461.jpg/)

Wow.. Legnum front cut can be had from $2200.. http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mitsubishi-Legnum-VR4-Halfcut-V6-2-5L-Twin-turbo-Manual_W0QQitemZ150368460726

not the best quality but this is one i saw on ebay a yr or so ago i believe its fwd
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3853/ed461.th.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/ed461.jpg/)

wish we could find more info on that car

ie.. what gearbox was used.. & did all mounts line up....

I too have been contemplating this also. Will be very interesting to know if the running gear from the VR4 will fit. Mainly from the Gearbox back.

Not more than 100m from were I am living there is a VR4 Legnum so in the next few days I'll see about talking to the owner and see if I can get some pics to compare things like engine mounts.

i have pics aswell of a 6a engine that i found on ebay

Well, I just discovered today that uni have called of the AWD-FWD hybrid conversion, and the car is likely to be dumped (being an ex-testbed it can't be registered).

I'm hoping I might be able to convince some of the course coordinators to allow me to investigate this as a Student project... That would be cool..

I asked Steve Knight about the test "mule"......he said " there was never a manual test AWD".

I asked Steve Knight about the test "mule"......he said " there was never a manual test AWD".

Not publicly.... just like MMAL didnt have a "GDI" equipped test car either ;)

I asked Steve Knight about the test "mule"......he said " there was never a manual test AWD".

Correct. He said to me if such a car existed he would have driven it.

Correct. He said to me if such a car existed he would have driven it.

2nd that, I was there.....

From what Steve told me there was an idea to make a manual but it would have cost $200k to retool the line so the cardigan executives decided that we would not like it anyway hmmm

From what Steve told me there was an idea to make a manual but it would have cost $200k to retool the line so the cardigan executives decided that we would not like it anyway hmmm

That's a shame... If they had've sold 40 of them at a $5000 premium, it would've cost them nothing.... :P

Question..

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61299

Does this meant that option 5 is 4G63T + Manual AWD box?

Came across this image today that clearly shows the affected area.

http://i33.tinypic.com/wl3o5c.jpg

The shot is from someone documenting the install of a 4G64 into a 3000GT I think as one difference I've noticed is the position of the startermotor 'outcut' from the plate.
The 'standard' sandwitch plate for the 4G64 on the AWD Diamante has part # MD329296 for anyone that can get hold of one, and this the same part as used on manual Magnas.
Be good for comparing evo box against for those that have one lying around.
I can't help but wonder if an adaptor could be made for the section where those top two bolts are.. More investigation to continue..

Came across this image today that clearly shows the affected area.

http://i33.tinypic.com/wl3o5c.jpg

The shot is from someone documenting the install of a 4G64 into a 3000GT I think as one difference I've noticed is the position of the startermotor 'outcut' from the plate.
The 'standard' sandwitch plate for the 4G64 on the AWD Diamante has part # MD329296 for anyone that can get hold of one, and this the same part as used on manual Magnas.
Be good for comparing evo box against for those that have one lying around.
I can't help but wonder if an adaptor could be made for the section where those top two bolts are.. More investigation to continue..

Wrong...
Thats a 6G74 DOHC Motor.
Taken from John Monnins Website
http://www.wrenchmonkey.com/Webpages/6G74swap.html
I know because I read that page 4 million times before doing my swap.
AWD and FWD 3000GT's have the same mounting position but different starter motors as the flywheel is a bit bigger on the AWD's

;1130253']Wrong...
Thats a 6G74 DOHC Motor.



Sorry... I hit the wrong key.. I meant 6G74...
But it does show the affected area that causes issues mounting the evo manual box up to the 6G74 in the magna.
And the part code I provided is correct for the magna.

The above motor in the Pic, while is very similar to the S4 motors, the bottom end is completely different.

The reason the starter motor mount is on the RHS as you look at the pic is because it is designed to sit on the LHS like in a second gen. I have one of these sitting in my garage right now

I too would love to resolve this AWD manual thing, I am willing to assist with Labour for anyone in Vic if someone wants to give this a go. Would ideally want a AWD trans to start with and then go from there

I have thought this through quite a bit and have come up with a couple ideas that may be doable

Hmm....who do we know with a spare trans? :shifty:

Hmm....who do we know with a spare trans? :shifty:


Both in my garage.
Problem is the time to clean the old and very tired Magna Gearbox.

Gerry.

If only I had enough cash to purchase the gearbox, I'd already be going down this road.. :P
Anyone know how much an evo / RVR / VR4 gearbox is worth by any chance?
I'd be guessing between $1500-$2000

Al,
When we do some work that has been planned, do you mind if I borrow the spare trans for a week or 3 to take some measurements.

Once have taken them, I will have a far better idea on what we need to lookat. I also may have access for a few weeks to an evo box as well thus will have something to compare to

Blah to 1500-2000 - go buy a half/front cut - would cost about $2500 and you'd get entire engine, gearbox, wiring, maybe even guards, lights, steering, dash, etc.

G.

Been doing abit of research and found a uk galant website, from what they are say is that the 6a13tt motor uses the same box as a evo.

here is a pic they posted
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30528&d=1255642563

hey spud 100, what about cutting both the bellhousings say 50mm back of the face and getting the the magna one welded onto the evo box???

from what they are say is that the 6a13tt motor uses the same box as a evo.

Correct.... Now to fit both in the engine bay together... :P

Has there been any progress on this guys? I'd be the first to buy one if someone worked out how to do it!

Just to drag this back from the dead... I found these great shots today showing the differences between a 6G72 AWD and 4G63 AWD MANUAL transmission..

Now, I know it's the wrong way around, but I wonder if the layout is still the same. Found it interesting to say the least..

http://i33.tinypic.com/2qdweqa.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/20fij4.jpg

Also, I found in the ASA that there was a Diamante produced powered by a 6A13.
Apparently it was the F34A 2WD auto only made between 2002 and 2005.

Big issue with a box that bolts upto an Evo is the bell housing, I was hoping I could "combine" the FWD and RWD housing and then have the box put together like that but there is just too many differences from the position of the starter right to the bolt pattern

I have now had the oppertunity to have a close look at a box and am confident that this will bolt up ok, I have 90% convinced the owner to either lend it or sell it to me as has a blown diff. Now I will also ahve a lot larger workshop I will have space to set this sort of stuff up as well

If this comes off, the next challenge will be to find a rear diff with the same ratio and then find a car to put it all in for testing.

How long would fitting and testing take once your ready to go - 3 mths or more? As you may know I have a TJ AWD and a TL AWD so could do w/o one for a while. If the existing blown diff is in or attached to the gearbox (if like an auto??) wouldn't it be easier to find a front diff to match the existing TJ/TL AWD rear diff or is this not an option?

Would love to see the outcome of the Mal's research!

Some of you may notice some posts missing......i've done a clean up as it was a previously banned member messing with us.

A bit of food for thought. In this picture... Evo7 cand manual magna clutch housings.
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn149/finesse49ers/2010-04-01094803.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn149/finesse49ers/2010-04-01094744.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn149/finesse49ers/2010-04-01094831.jpg

Am doing one here as we speak. Evo 7 is a long way off as have measured already as whet i am using so either way is a lot of expensive work lol

Am doing one here as we speak. Evo 7 is a long way off as have measured already as whet i am using so either way is a lot of expensive work lol

Yeah sorry I misread the thread I stole the pics from. The clutch housing is from the evo8. What sparked my interest here, looking through the the magna workshop manual, the diagrams in the manual for the pdf use the lancer gearbox clutch housing. Done a search online and found someone who's attempting this in the states on a 3rd gen eclipse. He has successfully machined the clutch housing from an eclipse (essentially the same as the magna) to have the same mounts that are on the evo5 clutch housing, and then machined the hole that the drive shaft comes out of.

I can't see cutting up the two housings and joining them together working too well, as I'm sure there's very fine tolerances to stick by. Basically he's got the manual gearbox and transfer case all bolted onto the 6g motor, but he stipulated he will not pot pictures as he wants to make money off this. Either it's true and he's successfully done it, or he's lying.

If I fund all the work that's going into this trial of yours will I get the first gearbox?

Ok just sitting back and thinking about things. As both the bellhousings share the same bolt pattern for the transmission, make a jig that both the bell housings can bolt to. A template can be used for cutting which will ensure the cuts will be in the same places on both bell housings. The template could be attached to the jig and isn't adjustable.

- Bolt down one bell housing, cut and remove
- Repeat with the second bellhousing and remove.
- Bolt the evo transfer case half and the magna engine mount half to the jig
- Weld the two halfs together
- Clean up the inside of the bell housing.

Ideally the cut will be in a non-crucial area. Then it’s just a matter of reassembling and away you go… almost.
I’ll be approaching some engineering mobs tomorrow along with some of the pictures I’ve posted above to suss out if they are capable and willing to try it. But I suspect better luck may be had in a major city rather than a regional town.
Is this something people could see working?

I assume you're talking about finesse49ers (http://www.club3g.com/forum/members/finesse49ers/)? From what I read on that one, modding the Evo8 bellhousing was the least of his troubles... He had to overcome crossmember, subframe, rear axle, etc... It is still a WIP I believe.

I assume you're talking about finesse49ers (http://www.club3g.com/forum/members/finesse49ers/)? From what I read on that one, modding the Evo8 bellhousing was the least of his troubles... He had to overcome crossmember, subframe, rear axle, etc... It is still a WIP I believe.

Yeah, BUT - he's also doing an AWD conversion from FWD, the manual box was only a small part of the build. I don't need to worry about subframes, rear axles because my car is already AWD.

WTF posting soo early in the morning? Either goto bed (like me) or your up early which is excusable because you have to work where as I'm on holidays.

No work today for me :) On-call contractor... Anyways yes, I'm very interested in his build too... Forged Boosted 3.7L 6G74 AWD Manual Convertible = WIN!

For the past couple of weeks I've been enjoying 3.30pm starts with 3.30am finishes... Kind of throws your sleeping pattern off :P

Hey, would anybody know if the spline count on the manual box is the same as the auto?

Shit I missed that small oil port on the transfer case mounting side. Any idea what it's for?

I have an AWD Manual :)

I have an AWD Manual :)

Is it a magna/verada? Details?

96 GTO, its in his profile

yup that'll do it.

it would be a horrible idea, but the GTO box does bolt to the 6g7x series of engines.

do your rails have the hump ours does to allow the gearbox to stick out the side of the car?

oh wait your engines are mounted the opposite direction.

2nd gen magnas fit the GTO engines I think, but there were no aus AWD versions, leaving the rest of the AWD system to be made or adapted out of a GTO maybe? Which by the end of it, would probably be better off just having the GTO.

well, it would look like a magna :p

What about a gearbox out of something else, triton, pajero, outlander?? I'm not great with mechanical stuff so I have no idea, just a thought


maybe non mitsu??

I've heard the 6sp manuals out of (now don't shoot me) a Hyundai tiburon bolt up, or possibly a Santa Fe??
how bout any other AWD? subie, audi?? Toyota tercel (hahahhahahhahahaha)

Anything will fit with money mate. Depends how deep your pockets are

I have all but finished my Jig to make a box from another mits fit into a Magna so soon there will be an AWD manul

Has taken some time to get to this point due ot so much work but I am making progress

Nice!

Definately nice, would be worth the roadtrip for a 6g75 AWD manual conversion all in one hit!!

Definately nice, would be worth the roadtrip for a 6g75 AWD manual conversion all in one hit!!

The modded gearbox alone will cost you five times what you'll pay for the 6G75.

$10,000? I can't see why Mits-Fix would go to the effort to do this unless they thought they could sell them? I'm not too fussed on manual V auto these days so its not essential for my plans :P

Sorry guys with the amout of work involved and the cost of the gearbox, please dont think for even a second that this will be a $1000 conversion

As for "not doing them because we cant sell them" I have 3 orders waiting on this first one to be up and running.

Most have not been told but we had a rather large fire in the workshop yesterday so we will be put back a few weeks but I am still determined to try and have this running before Christmas (well if I have my way it will be lol)

At a rough guess, I can not see this conversion costing under $4k all up (including install, clutch etc) unless I can source some very much cheaper boxes, there is a hell of a lot of work to do to the box itself even before it is ready to put in the car

What happened with the fire Mal??

Sorry guys with the amout of work involved and the cost of the gearbox, please dont think for even a second that this will be a $1000 conversion

As for "not doing them because we cant sell them" I have 3 orders waiting on this first one to be up and running.

Most have not been told but we had a rather large fire in the workshop yesterday so we will be put back a few weeks but I am still determined to try and have this running before Christmas (well if I have my way it will be lol)

At a rough guess, I can not see this conversion costing under $4k all up (including install, clutch etc) unless I can source some very much cheaper boxes, there is a hell of a lot of work to do to the box itself even before it is ready to put in the car

My estimate when I first read about this was $4k-$6k so that sounds fairly close to what you've said. I also only meant that at $10k which was suggested, that I couldn't see many people at all doing this. For me I have already gotten something out of it!

Been trying to decide for awhile between a FWD which has the option of both auto and manual, or a AWD with only auto. I like having the choice, even if i do just stick with an auto AWD... knowing that mits-fix have given me the choice of either at what I believe to be a very reasonable price is awesome!

Furthermore, fire is bad. As a auxiliary firefighter I can say that garage fire's can be nightmare's once the fuels/oils/greases and other chems start igniting!!! Glad to hear all is well

So what gearbox did you look at using? only one I can see would be an 8th gen Galant...it's actually AWD and on the right side of the engine bay...

I am perplexed.

All this talk of frankenstein conversions. Gearbox from this, engine from that etc. $6k here and $10k there.

Why not just buy an 8th gen Galant, which is readily available out of the box with AWD, manual and a twin turbo V6?

It will be cheaper, more reliable, more convenient, no time off the road, no hassles with legality, no need to have to upgrade the brakes, suspension to handle an engine transplant etc.

Unless there is something distinctive about our Magnas that is making everyone want to throw a lot of money into the bin ...

Because an 8th gen galant isn't a magna? Its sounds very simplistic but this question is alot like 'do you like Dr. Pepper?' Some people do, some dont; some like modding their magna's into something unique and some will just buy a Galant. I myself can't really decide atm, Legnum or AWD Magna?

I see.

Sentimentality exceeding economical rationality ;)

I would understand if our Magnas were some rare car with classic lines that we wanted to retain the look of. Unfortunately, they are far from a unique car.

I guess if someone had more dollars than sense, then to them, anything would be worth doing. Unfortunately, I'm in the sense bracket and besides, in my humble opinion, the 8th gen Galants are a better looking car than my Magna ;)

Why, simple, because people want to be different. If your attitude was common we would still be riding horses

This is a club where people MOdIFY cars so comments like the crap above don't even belong here

Galants are a great car BUT try and get a good one to start with and then try getting parts...........

So what if a magna is not a collect able, what difference does that make ffs.......people do up galants as well you know so are they also mad....

If i had the money for one of these conversions,i would doing it in a flash,oh hang on ,l need a AWD first,

Okay,if i had an AWD i would do this conversion in a flash.

Passion,passion ...it's all about the love of some thing ,and no matter what it is ,no-one has the right to criticize what people are free to do with what they want.

God luck with it Mal,just hope some mad SA person get's it done to their car.

Say the word and I'll send you an evo gearbox.

Once this has been finalised and is running in a car, I will be offering anyone in AMC to send me a box and I will have it modded

I can not state a price as yet but will involve a doner box for the material needed.

My jig is nearing completion, we need to make sure that the modifications are 100% perfect as there is absolutely no room at all for any varience in the specs when it comes to allignment. The person getting this doen, although has been waiting a long time will I am sure be letting everyone know the result when it is fittted soon.

Please keep this thread on topic, this is not the place for off topic conversations.

http://s015.radikal.ru/i333/1112/62/81ed14519df5.jpg
http://s017.radikal.ru/i441/1112/14/d0e69aeae69c.jpg
http://s017.radikal.ru/i434/1112/65/0f84bec68e82.jpg
http://s51.radikal.ru/i132/1112/50/ef9241c6d981.jpg

Discuss

nevermind found it

Love it,
Solidworks for the adaptor plate??

What is the donor transmission. looks like an EVO box.

How have you solved the final drive ratio problem?
Gerry

Provided you use the AWD trans case, you then use the AWD rear diff and then you will have a working set up.

There are many issues with using an adapter plate like this, it will work on many other cars but I have done a lot of measurements and I can not see how this will work. There will be many fowling issues as well which I have detailed in the other thread relating to this modification.

Aside from this, the cost of making an adapter plate out of billet alloy would be horrendus, the billet on its own will cost a bundle let alone then the machining etc to be done. Again, like the way I am doing the box I am doing at the moment, even if there is a 1mm difference in input shaft allignment you will be in serious trouble

Will win only one who fights. If you do nothing, then there are always problems.

Tell anecdote in the topic. If you have enough of my English. Stolen americans from russians, secret drawings of the aircraft. Collect the drawings. It turns out a lawn mower. Dismantled - collected. Again lawn mower is obtained. Read the bottom of the drawing of the inscription. "If you get the mower, then refine a hammer and a file to the desired form." You understand the meaning of what I want to say? If something does not work, need to get to the desired form. And this is the rear axle. http://s015.radikal.ru/i330/1112/fe/e73ad092dc5b.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

Savage.. Those photos... What are they of???

even if there is a 1mm difference in input shaft allignment you will be in serious trouble

What millimeters speech? The accuracy of 0.001 mm otherwise it is impossible. Mitsubishi Evolution IX Gearbox W6MAA.

Manual would be good but I think you would need some real power to make it worth while

any updates?

Digging old stuff... Did anyone ever get anywhere?

I'm still interested in the images that Savage posted above also..

Have done 3 so far and about to start the 4th if that helps

I did see something about that a little later. Possibly interested pending cost and finances for a second vehicle but as I've just recently graduated from my mech eng degree I'm also interested in how it was done. I still liked my idea of vr4 engine and gearbox transplant.

Sorry how it was done is my work and will not be explained, I spent a lot of money, gearboxes and time to do this.

I charge $900 for the actual work to be done to the bell housing, this is plus the housings, I need either an Evo or Legnum / Galant housing and a Magna Manual housing.

Would not bother with a 6A13 transplant to be honest, if you want to make the car go better use a 6G75

$900 seems pretty reasonable. What is needed to complete the conversion and do people normally do it themselves, or is that including fittment cost?

What's the turnaround time? Adelaide to Melbourne, holiday while car is being converted, drive it back to Adelaide.

Sorry how it was done is my work and will not be explained, I spent a lot of money, gearboxes and time to do this.

Also, wasn't trying to cut your mustard or anything. As evidinced by this thread there was significant discussion on ways to do it. If I'd not been a student for the last 4 years, I'd have tried a few of them out also, but not previously bing able to afford to a) take the car off the road and b) mess with it meant I couldn't happened. It was even off the road for almost 12 months because I couldn't afford to fuel, register and insure it at one point. I'm glad that someone has done it and given those that don't want to try it from scratch themselves (just for the fun of it) an option. I was just interest to know if any of the discussions made here were on the right track, or if they were all flawed in some way etc. And as soon as I can get my financing sorted I'll be in the market to look at having fun throwing money away on cars again.. :D

Price is simply for the price of the bell housing mods. Fitting is extra and is time consuming. From there you pretty much need a manual conversion from a fwd vehicle if that makes sense.

Have done 3 of them thus far, number 3 is currently being fitted as we speak

G'day Mal,
Wow things have moved along a lot since i was a regular follower of the forums. For one I am 50 Kg lighter so my car is so much faster LOL.
I may be way off beam here but does the modified 6G75 ECU need to be from a manual version only and/or reflashed to suit the extra power freed up by switching to a manual box and/or the power train loss from AWD compared to FWD only even in manual? If reflashing/mapping is required is that being done by Steve Knight and SKR with a dyno tune in Adelaide, an SKR reflashed ECU delivered to Melbourne, or a Melbourne sourced solution?

My 2004 TL AWD has just reached 99800 and needs a belt change in the the next 6 months or so considering the less than 5K I do in it each year. I know I am up for $1000 + if done commercially here in Canberra, so it may be time for a 6g75 conversion anyway. Depending on inspection roughly what sort of money is the 2nd hand existing engine worth as a trade in or would I have to arrange sale/disposal myself? Would my existing HM headers and exhaust with single high po cat all be reusable as i seem to recall the 6G75 has two cats.
I note you have a 6G75 waiting fitting or conversion in stock for $1750, so I know the likely cost of one component before it is modified to fit.

Any reports on line or in forums from the existing 2 conversions?

Feel free to PM me some details re likely costs, timeframe for sourcing parts etc etc, which I would leave up to you if possible. I'm still running my 2003 TJ AWD and getting my old 1978 R100RS BMW sidecar back on the road in the next month as well. so being without the TL AWD for a while next year is not an issue.
Regards
Peter

you can use the standard Auto AWD ECU, you can run it unflashed no worries at all but to get the max gain you should flash it.

If running the 74 with the manual there is no need to touch a thing. With the 75 you can run std or flash to a 380 tune or best bet is to get it onto the dyno and do live for the best result as all cars do differ a little

I have done about 50 75 conversions to date, have 3 I in line to do as well, the motors for the FWD are $1750, I charge an extra $100 for the AWD motors as there is a little more work clearing the block for the transfer case to clear. Once done the motor is ready to bolt in

The old motor I dont trade in personally as I have a good stock of 74's in stock, I often throw out perfectly good motors as I simply dont have room for them all here :)

The HM bolt straight on, if you have a look at Munkeymanz ride thread he has some photos of his car being done here, his is a TL AWD

Think that pretty much answers most questions, doing the manual conversion is exxy but results are similar to doing one in a FWD ie you gain back some of the power lost in the auto box and best of all YOU control your gearing not the auto ECU

Apologies for digging up an old thread.

Previously i've been thinking of doing a 75 and manual conversion to my KF but i'm now considering a TL VRX AWD. The only way i'd do this is if it were converted to manual.
I read that you've done at least 3 of these conversions now and before i part with (to me) a huge chunk of cash i was wondering how these conversions are going some months later?
Is there anyone on the forums that has had the AWD manual conversion done that can give some feedback?

Mine is going very well - only issue I have is with my gearbox, I think, making some noises which mits-fix are going to look at -- but I've driven MGTZD's awd manual and it was fine.

The evo gear ratios are excellent to drive, car understeers less, fuel economy is similar, maybe a bit better when driven gently.

I would definately recommend the conversion - if you have any issues Mal will always sort it out for you.

Sorry how it was done is my work and will not be explained, I spent a lot of money, gearboxes and time to do this.

I charge $900 for the actual work to be done to the bell housing, this is plus the housings, I need either an Evo or Legnum / Galant housing and a Magna Manual housing.

Would not bother with a 6A13 transplant to be honest, if you want to make the car go better use a 6G75

Sorry to dig up an older post, but I'm interested in why you suggest the 6G75 over the 6A13TT? An auto legnum weighs nearly as much as an awd magna, 100 or so kgs less, and they perform brilliantly. The little tt engine is a fantastic street motor, making boost low in the rev range and has great midrange torque. They are limited in upgrades, 200-220kwatw is easily achieved but then things start to get expensive. I'm interested to see what sort of power people are getting out of the 3.8 without opening the engine up. Again, sorry about dragging up an old post, but I'm interested.

I know how they go, I have 2 of them.

First of all, 6G75 takes no engineering to install, secondly while the Legnums and Galants go well, a good manual 6G75 will easily keep up with a Legnum or Galant which is standard. I know because we have tried it for fun (on private roads of course)

The 75 motor is a bolt in, parts are easy to get and they have a tonne of torque where as the Galant motor running standard boost does tend to run out of breath mid to high rev range.

Fair enough. Just wondering. Thanks for the quick reply.