Hi Guys, i'm about to get the 100K timing belt service done on my 2000 VRX and need some advice. There's 2 kits available, one without the hydraulic tensioner and one with it. big difference in cost. now, most cars don't really need the tensioner until the 200K timing belt change, which in this town will take me about 7 years to reach.

how about these magna motors? do they need it done as well in people's experience, or "should" the original one on there be sufficient to redo and reuse? money is tight, so need some genuine opinions/experience, not "do it just in case".

cheers,

Short answer, no, you dont need it.

make sure you do all the front seals though. (crank and cams)

maybe get a water pump while you have it all off.

super cheap has pumps for $120.

Just a quick question on the smilar topic. My VRX is about to hit 200k and I wanna get the timing belt done.

What is the tensioner that was mentioned before? How much should I expect to be paying for the timing belt to be done?

i got a quote just out of interest, it was around 600 including parts. (not the tensioner)

the tensioner is a hydraulic ram that applies constant pressure to the timing belt, via a pulley. the piston from the tensioner pushes on the pulley. The idea is to bypass the need for manually adjustment. it also keeps the perfect tension constantly.

this one (http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.allproducts.com/traffic/clutch/23-hydraulic_piston-l.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.allproducts.com/traffic/clutch/23-hydraulic_piston.html&usg=__hat0uLj8q1uT_uYQMynS9oeCM-8=&h=370&w=370&sz=47&hl=en&start=12&um=1&tbnid=rHwBVRcQljQtDM:&tbnh=122&tbnw=122&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddraulic%2Btensioner%26hl%3Den%26safe% 3Doff%26rlz%3D1T4ADBS_enAU266AU267%26sa%3DN%26um%3 D1)is really close to a magna one. the little rod coming out the end pushes on the pulley.

the kits without the tensioner are about the $240 mark, and $380-450 with, so a pretty big difference in supply price.

Do i need the tensioner? Can I go without it?

Ok,
The basic kit you should get has the following
*Belt
*Cam Seals
*Crank Seal
*Idler Pulley
*Tensioner Pulley

This is all that is needed PROVIDED your hydrolic tensioner is ok, this is easy to test once off the car but they rarely need to be changed.

Water pump, if you go to Supercheap you take your motor into your own hands. I only use GMB made in Japan.

THe kit without the tensioner is approximately $165.00 for the 3.5l (would have to check for an exact price)

Dayco kits with tensioner from Ultracheap Auto (02 6562 4961) in NSW $315.00 delivered.

Cheers

So I can get away without the tensioner?

How big of a job is it? i.e. how long will my car be in the mechanics for?

Sorry for my ignorance, I've never taken a car in for a timing change before.

As Mal said, the hydraulic Tensioners rarely need replacing.

So I can get away without the tensioner?

How big of a job is it? i.e. how long will my car be in the mechanics for?

Sorry for my ignorance, I've never taken a car in for a timing change before.

Mate the timing belt is quite a big job. Its very important that it gets done, because you really don't want your belt to snap and let the value completely destroy your engine. To change it, from what I hear, requires the engine to be hoisted out, so expect at a least a days worth of work.

Generally speaking, every 100,000k's it needs a huge major service that costs around $1K which includes the timing belt. So I believe for the timing belt alone you'd be looking around the $700 mark.

If there is anything you don't skimp on its the timing belt, a simple $700 could save you from spending thousands for a new engine.

thanks for the info guys. Good to know its not necessary. I'll get the kit and get started. My mechanic quoted me 4 hours work to do the timing belt, so probabaly about 300 in labour for most plus the parts. Surely a water pump on these things wouldn't die after 100,000k's?? i would have thought they were a better motor than that?

the water pump doesnt die after 100k, but mine died at 160xxx.

imo it is worth spending 120 odd now. otherwise it will be another 300 - 400 in labour, maybey 50k down the track.

it is serioulsly a 10 minute job when the belt is off. (seriosly so no extra labour, or very little)

so for $120, might as well do it.

edit: i am sure that people will say "my pump lasted 250000 rah rah rah"

also, timing belts arent that hard to do. no need for a engine hoist, just a bottle jack and a peice of wood.

only took me 3 hrs to do my water pump, so yeah.

the water pump doesnt die after 100k, but mine died at 160xxx.
imo it is worth spending 120 odd now. otherwise it will be another 300 - 400 in labour, maybey 50k down the track...
Interesting and important - note taken... suggest Water Pump be changed when doing the 100K major service.
Is there anything else to be considered at the same time?
I'm always interested in what else to consider changing when things are being fixed on a car.
Such as a part that is easy to change or a modification that can be done at the same time.

So while the timing belt is being done in a 100K Major Service, is there anything else that can be done at the same time or any mods to be considered?

Mainly do seals with no exceptions.

As for doing it yourself, if you do not have the correct tensioning tool Leave IT Alone

I have seen many get away without using it, I have seen a few not have the proper tensioning tool and ended up with those cars in my garage getting new heads fitted

Water Pump, I have seen them go a long time, it is really up to expreience when you remove it, if you have done as many as I have generally you can get a fairly good indication of what condition it is in

It is not worth the risk

when i did my water pump etc, i made my cam sprokets adjustable, and advaced them for more torque,

is that the kind of mod yout after?

linky here (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66614&highlight=advancing+cams&page=3)

when i did my water pump etc, i made my cam sprokets adjustable, and advaced them for more torque,

is that the kind of mod yout after?

linky here (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66614&highlight=advancing+cams&page=3)


I really hope that you advanced the cams and not the cam sprockets as if you advance the sprokets you retard the cams and have less torque and power!!

As a guide, you need to, if the cam is stationary, roll the cam to the front of the vehicle.

AllanJ has covered this extensivly in one of his early threads, Alan has also covered this in a great down to earth way that most will be able to understand

haha, im not stupid.:facejump:

this is what i ended up doing, worked like a charm.


You may want to get a comment from Dave and Jason first but I would guess that a good starting point would be to assume the 3.0 ltr has 4 deg retard. So I'd file the rear sprocket to move the cam 6 deg(thats actually a true 2 deg advanced), and for the front bank I'd move the cam 9 deg. 6 deg= elongate hole clockwise to right by 0.63mm, 9 deg= elongate hole clockwise to right by 0.95mm, so it doesn't take very much filing. When you refit the sprockets just be sure to wind them back anti clockwise as you tighten the center bolt. Make certain you tension the bolt correctly.


i now putt around at 1800-2300 revs with plenty of power, instead of around 2600-2900.

the motor has a killer note.

the way i did it was to rotate the sprokets counter clockwise, (looking from the drivers side) or as madmagna said, spin the actual cam shaft clockwise (looking from the drivers side.)

also remember, a tiny bit of adjustment, makes a big difference.

I bought my 98 Magna with 195,000k on the clock, and was just about to book in my car for a timing belt change as it was due in 5000km, however my car did not come with a service history and the owner didnt know whether the belt had been changed at 100,000km or earlier. However, one day i was driving all fine, and then my car stalled on me. I thought i just stalled it (as its a manual) but as soon as i tried to turn it over it didnt sound good at all.

Looked under the bonnet and notice my 2 drive belts were snapped, i replaced them on the side of the road in a quiet street in a few hours but the car still wouldnt turn over, got the NRMA out and they said i need to get it towed. My mechanic confirms my worst nightmares and has revealed that the timing belt had stripped itself and come loose managing too somehow snap the drive belts. And i had bent all my valves and was up for a whole head replacement.

I was going to buy a new engine off the internet for approximately $750 but including postage and labour fees too install it i was looking at about $2000, so i got my current engine fixed for $3300 which included reconditioned heads, new valves, new timing belt, new hydraulic tensioner, new water pump and the injectors were cleaned out. The car runs like new now and is noticeably smoother.

Moral of the story is too find out when the last timing belt was changed! And also because i felt like telling my story :happy:

Heres some pictures of the engine and the piston heads with the valve marks on it from where the valves hit it.

Interesting and important - note taken... suggest Water Pump be changed when doing the 100K major service.
Is there anything else to be considered at the same time?
I'm always interested in what else to consider changing when things are being fixed on a car.
Such as a part that is easy to change or a modification that can be done at the same time.

So while the timing belt is being done in a 100K Major Service, is there anything else that can be done at the same time or any mods to be considered?


With FWD cars, I always change the water pump when the timing belt is being done. As Mal said - no its not required, but I do it because:

A) I dont have Mals experience
B) preventative maintenance - I dont like to leave things to chance.

Cleaning out your throttle body / intake is not a bad idea while its off. You could have the injectors serviced (already in the area)*

*sorry kind of assuming you would be changing the spark plugs, so thats taking into account having the intake manifold off.

Then your general filters/oils, power steering fluid check, brake fluid check.

well, after all of that, the tensioner was shagged when they got it apart, so had to be done... interesting.

water pump was fine, so didn't touch that.