RPW have a new page about increased output from a 380 after some basic mods, here: http://www.rpw.com.au/shop/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=277&Itemid=40

The mods are:

K & N Panel Filter with RPW Cold Air Mod
Stock Exhaust with RPW Lukey Rear Muffler
RPW Tuned Length Extractors

The "RPW cold air mod" seems to be simply cutting the end off the lower intake resonator.

They claim an increase from 145kw atw to 161kw atw.

This increase seems a reasonable claim to me.

But what doesn't seem right to me is their claimed stock power figures.

They reckon 145kw atw and 193kw at the flywheel.

As we all know, the stock 380 engine is rated at 175kw at the flywheel.

So either the factory stock figure is way low, or RPWs dyno is more than a bit optimistic.

I suspect the RPW dyno claims are high, especially in view of the readings members here have published on other dynos.

If I can believe the RPW figures, my 380 should be putting out about 230kw at the fly and 180kw atw at the moment, seeing as I have the same mods as RPW plus a high flow third cat, stock resonator replaced with straight through mufflers, the 90 mm snorkel, an enhanced lower resonator set up, and mine is a manual.

Somehow I don't think so!

I'd be happy if mine was putting out 160kw atw.

I'm tentatively booked in with SKR for a dyno run day after tomorrow, so maybe then we'll see the figures on a 'true' dyno.

I'll also bring along my standard air filter and try a run with it vs the K&N panel filter, and that way we should be able to get an idea if the K&N really does make a difference.

I might also try a run with the lower intake (cut resonator) blocked off, which might show the worth of this mod.

KJ.

I saw that too & it says they are using a hub dyno which I'd imagine would give different output figures to the ol' tyre rolling dyno.

well I have a GT so it must have a billion Kw at the wheel if I take it to RPW Just with the badges alone

I saw that too & it says they are using a hub dyno which I'd imagine would give different output figures to the ol' tyre rolling dyno.

Yep hub dynos give higher readings as they bolt directly to the car (hubs) and thus they have no tyre slip on the rollers and less frictional drag etc

Yep hub dynos give higher readings as they bolt directly to the car (hubs) and thus they have no tyre slip on the rollers and less frictional drag etc

so in saying that would the hub dynos not be more accurate than the roller dynos?

so in saying that would the hub dynos not be more accurate than the roller dynos?

Try not to think of it as being more "accurate". It's simply another way of measuring the cars output.

so in saying that would the hub dynos not be more accurate than the roller dynos?

Not so much more accurate, as more consistent. They have a little less variables to deal with.

....I'll also bring along my standard air filter and try a run with it vs the K&N panel filter, and that way we should be able to get an idea if the K&N really does make a difference.

I might also try a run with the lower intake (cut resonator) blocked off, which might show the worth of this mod.

KJ.


I would be very grateful to you if you could prove/disprove some of these as either worthwhile or urban myths.

I think the K&N has been proved before to not have as good a flow rate as the paper filter, but as they both get dirtier the K&N maintains its flow while the paper filter blocks up quite quickly.
So paper is better while it is clean.

so in saying that would the hub dynos not be more accurate than the roller dynos?

There not that much more accurate there just more consistent (like others have said). A hub dyno will give higher readings as there is no drive lost thru tyre slip, friction, tie down tightness etc. The main bonus of a hub dyno is easy of use, just jack there car up, off with the wheels, bolt on the hub packs and off ya go.

The only tru way to get exact power/torque improvements is by having the engine put on a engine dyno but that is way over the top for most people.

I think the K&N has been proved before to not have as good a flow rate as the paper filter, but as they both get dirtier the K&N maintains its flow while the paper filter blocks up quite quickly.
So paper is better while it is clean.

I'd be very surprised if the K&N isn't streets ahead of the 380 standard filter. It's not really paper more like a nappy.

an over-oiled K&N (which most are!!) will not flow as much as a normal paper filter.

a hub dyno will also read more because a lot of rotational mass (i.e. the wheels!) have been removed.

I would take anything claimed by RPW with a grain of salt, if not totally dis-believe it. but that's just my experience.

dyno figures are only really relevant when you are comparing runs from the same dyno with the same settings (and possibly even on the same day). I know we have to rely on them, but every single dyno is different and can be setup to skew results (both intentionally and unintentionally).

cheers,
.wook

I'd be very surprised if the K&N isn't streets ahead of the 380 standard filter. It's not really paper more like a nappy.

A lightly oiled K&N lost power (small amount) on my car over a cheap aftermarket "white" paperette style filter when we did back to back tests but thats not to say it would happen on a 380 though.

I guess the best part about a K&N is its servicability, its just that some people over oil them and then all sorts of issues arise..

RPW have a new page about increased output from a 380 after some basic mods, here: http://www.rpw.com.au/shop/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=277&Itemid=40

The mods are:

K & N Panel Filter with RPW Cold Air Mod
Stock Exhaust with RPW Lukey Rear Muffler
RPW Tuned Length Extractors

The "RPW cold air mod" seems to be simply cutting the end off the lower intake resonator.

They claim an increase from 145kw atw to 161kw atw.

This increase seems a reasonable claim to me.

But what doesn't seem right to me is their claimed stock power figures.

They reckon 145kw atw and 193kw at the flywheel.

As we all know, the stock 380 engine is rated at 175kw at the flywheel.

So either the factory stock figure is way low, or RPWs dyno is more than a bit optimistic.

I suspect the RPW dyno claims are high, especially in view of the readings members here have published on other dynos.

If I can believe the RPW figures, my 380 should be putting out about 230kw at the fly and 180kw atw at the moment, seeing as I have the same mods as RPW plus a high flow third cat, stock resonator replaced with straight through mufflers, the 90 mm snorkel, an enhanced lower resonator set up, and mine is a manual.

Somehow I don't think so!

I'd be happy if mine was putting out 160kw atw.

I'm tentatively booked in with SKR for a dyno run day after tomorrow, so maybe then we'll see the figures on a 'true' dyno.

I'll also bring along my standard air filter and try a run with it vs the K&N panel filter, and that way we should be able to get an idea if the K&N really does make a difference.

I might also try a run with the lower intake (cut resonator) blocked off, which might show the worth of this mod.

KJ.

Regarding 380 power. Graham got an engine to check out a few months ago. He had a good look at it and I've had a quick look too, plus another good look while we were checking his new cams and we frankly can't understand the factory 175kw number. I think Dave has commented in testing they got something like 184kw, then the extra CATs were added and there were some other changes too for EuroIII. I think I'm quoting Dave correctly here.

Anyway we reckon that with the cams advanced, decent inlet snorkel and with cast iron ex manifolds and stock VR/VRX exhaust the engine should be closer to 190-195kw. Add his prototype I heads (flowed 300 cfm, prototype II are finished but haven't been on bench yet) and high lift cams currently in his 3.5 ltr and there should be 230kw.

Cheers,
Alan

A lightly oiled K&N lost power (small amount) on my car over a cheap aftermarket "white" paperette style filter when we did back to back tests but thats not to say it would happen on a 380 though. ..

Fair enough. When a few of us got them initially (Blue380, Grubco?) we noticed a definite improvement in throttle response. Whether that equated much to hp, jury is out because when my car was dynoed trying these things out, I didn't have one.
But the 380 standard filter is certainly a fairly thick mother and my guess is that it has a sound deadening role as well as a filter function. The intake was modified because of the ADR drive by noise which is where my guess stems from.

Anyway we reckon that with the cams advanced, decent inlet snorkel and with cast iron ex manifolds and stock VR/VRX exhaust the engine should be closer to 190-195kw.


Alan,

In your other thread you say the stock cams can be advanced 8 degrees. Based on the torque available in the low rev range, is this such a good idea?
I'd hate to lose the reasonable top end we have now on the 380; which isn't as good as the G74.

And the stock 380 VRX exhaust is the very restrictive triflo design: is this what you meant or a straight thru exhaust as per the Magna (confusing I know)?

A lightly oiled K&N lost power (small amount) on my car over a cheap aftermarket "white" paperette style filter when we did back to back tests but thats not to say it would happen on a 380 though.

I guess the best part about a K&N is its servicability, its just that some people over oil them and then all sorts of issues arise..


Some people take them out of the box, and they come shipped over oiled from the factory.

As long as you can find a way to protect your MAP sensor(s)...(note plural...)

Then you'll be fine.

Dynos are a great thing but all are different with heaps of variables.
As far as the RPW dyno goes you can use a percentage as a ball park figure of performance gains.

eg a start power figure and the end power figure and work out the difference in a percentage. Then allow for bull Shi? say 5-10 percent and thats about right.

As with most of us as we drive v6 engines we like the torque and this can be improved a far bit with basic mods including making the power curve flatter giving a great mid range car which will make the car seem more powerful in daily driving but not at the dyno by much or in a 0-100 sprint at full song.

Hope this helps but all motors are different and dynos are just a ball park figure used for tuning.

Some people take them out of the box, and they come shipped over oiled from the factory.

As long as you can find a way to protect your MAP sensor(s)...(note plural...)

Then you'll be fine.


I've always cleaned and re-oiled any filter I've bought from K&N before putting it in the car.

Had one come out of the bag literally dripping with oil once. Funny, seeing as they warn you in the recharge kits to never over-oil the filter.

I've always cleaned and re-oiled any filter I've bought from K&N before putting it in the car.

Had one come out of the bag literally dripping with oil once. Funny, seeing as they warn you in the recharge kits to never over-oil the filter.



Thank you for confirming that their quality control is awful.

I don't think its an unreasonable consumer expectation to expect a $100 air filter to be ready for use out of the box.

Surely we aren't expected to clean them and re-oil them before first use..? Pathetic...


.

Better idea is to not use them at all. As they age they become poor at doing what they're supposed to - filter air. Not to mention they let more dirt and crap into your engine and add all of about zero power.

Just my opinion.

Alan,

In your other thread you say the stock cams can be advanced 8 degrees. Based on the torque available in the low rev range, is this such a good idea?
I'd hate to lose the reasonable top end we have now on the 380; which isn't as good as the G74.

And the stock 380 VRX exhaust is the very restrictive triflo design: is this what you meant or a straight thru exhaust as per the Magna (confusing I know)?

No sorry I was talking about the Magna VR/VRX exhaust.

Regarding cam retard; seldom does retard help top end HP. Mostly its done as another means of EGR to help emissions, and also to kill torque so as to help drivetrain life and keep traction control less busy. I posted some torque curves some months ago and a bit more detail so if you search for that it will help fill you fill in some gaps.

Cheers,
Alan