Hey Guys!

Firstly i want to mention that i have noticed a exhaust leak in the lower section of the front header and this is why im posting this

I just got a quote from Shawn at Philcom Rally for a set of Pacemaker Extractors for $220 NOT installed. now is this a good price for the extractors???

is there are other brands of extractors that i should have a look at?? or are the pacemakers just about the best im gonna get??

Now the installation of the headers?, how much do you guys will think it will cost me to get them installed? and if it isn't that hard i may just dop it myself, but i have a problem with lying under my car and working as i have low blood pressure and yeah..

Also just quickly making sure that when you buy a set of headers it comes with everything up to the CAT converter isnt it?

That sounds good! I got quoted $850 for pacies with install (From the exhaust shop i got my cat back done at)....

I just got a quote from Shawn at Philcom Rally for a set of Pacemaker Extractors for $220 NOT installed. now is this a good price for the extractors???



$220 is ridiculously cheap. If i were you i would jump on these ASAP!

I'll get a set for $220 as well..

I'll get a set for $220 as well..

I'd be down for a set that cheap too!
best i was quoted was $399 and I didnt think that was that bad

sorry but can someone please actually answer my other Q's

same here that is very cheap

EDIT***

you should get all the bits you need , umm only thing i can think of that will be missing is gaskets.

DBL EDIT*** not quite to the cat convertor.

Get a quote from an exhaust shop to get them fitted. Maybe 200ish is my best guess. If you are crap with tools then don't bother trying to fit them yourself. Pay someone.

There are other brands available but Pacemakers have a good reputation within AMC. I know a few with them fitted an knowone has had issues.

Ask Shawn if they are supplied complete and to that cat.

also you could call Exhaust Dynamics get a quote for installations hes done a few magnas and is a top bloke

Pacies are good value, especially at that price. They do require welding to fit though, you'd be better off paying for it do get done whippy. They come with the flange that you will need to weld on to your existing exhaust just after the Y-piece. I had my pacies done at the same time as my high flow cat, so I had a pipe welded in between the two, with a flange on either end.

So, no they don't come with everything up to the cat, but any exhaust shop/mechanic would be able to install them for you, they even come with instructions where to cut and weld!

Get a quote from an exhaust shop to get them fitted. Maybe 200ish is my best guess. If you are crap with tools then don't bother trying to fit them yourself. Pay someone.

There are other brands available but Pacemakers have a good reputation within AMC. I know a few with them fitted an knowone has had issues.

Ask Shawn if they are supplied complete and to that cat.

Yeah im good with tools... for example just the other day i pull out my Y-Piece...



also you could call Exhaust Dynamics get a quote for installations hes done a few magnas and is a top bloke

Yeah shawn said that they are his preferred installer and that they do good prices for him..


Pacies are good value, especially at that price. They do require welding to fit though, you'd be better off paying for it do get done whippy. They come with the flange that you will need to weld on to your existing exhaust just after the Y-piece. I had my pacies done at the same time as my high flow cat, so I had a pipe welded in between the two, with a flange on either end.

So, no they don't come with everything up to the cat, but any exhaust shop/mechanic would be able to install them for you, they even come with instructions where to cut and weld!

and thanks for that info.. i will be getting them installed by a pro now haha..

Pacies are good value, especially at that price. They do require welding to fit though, you'd be better off paying for it do get done whippy. They come with the flange that you will need to weld on to your existing exhaust just after the Y-piece. I had my pacies done at the same time as my high flow cat, so I had a pipe welded in between the two, with a flange on either end.

So, no they don't come with everything up to the cat, but any exhaust shop/mechanic would be able to install them for you, they even come with instructions where to cut and weld!

What am I crapping on about?? The flange is welded on 10mm after the flex pipe. Sheesh I'm an idiot.

Pacemakers are good value and are decent enough to use on a 200+kw@wheels NA magna :)

Pacemakers are good value and are decent enough to use on a 200+kw@wheels NA magna :)

hahahhaha okay jason ill trust your opinion as you are i think? the only AMCer to have 200+KW ATW

hahahhaha okay jason ill trust your opinion as you are i think? the only AMCer to have 200+KW ATW

No there are others but as far as i know, im the only one who has done it NA style not with forced induction

No there are others but as far as i know, im the only one who has done it NA style not with forced induction

ahh okay haha, well done anyway!

if you get urself a set at that price i'l give ya $220 and you can get me some :D

okay ill think about it haha...

BTW he said thats what the price should be...

but he is going to find out my exact price on monday when pacemaker is open..

Killer price for the extractors, half what i paid :(

And didnt cthulhu pull over 200kw atw NA?

Killer price for the extractors, half what i paid :(

And didnt cthulhu pull over 200kw atw NA?


Yeah 207kws@wheels with a shed load more mods than my donkey engine but from what i can remember he had troubles with ring sealing and oil burning

Didn't killbilly have some ridiculously powered NA-mobile?

KB just did the DOHC 3L conversion to his TR Exec. Currently the motor sits in Boozers KS and makes 120kw atw's. From what I remember, The extractors were on par with being one of the most expensive things of the conversion. The motor cost him $600, wiring for the ECU cost him $900 and so did the extractors. For $900 though they were all custom made.

Anyone got a set of pacies OFF THE CAR in vic I can have a look at? I'm pretty sure these will bolt up to a DOHC head

Sorry for the hijack but for $220 I'd almost buy a set to play with!

A few answers,

The Pacemaker does not have the flange welded on for the bolt up to the standard system, it does have 1 flange on the pipe and a second ready to weld onto your cut engine pipe near the main flex pipe. I do know as I have fitted dozens of these

The price is also very good as well, at this price perhaps we should get a few dozen sets lol

Paul, will have mine off when I do my engine change in a couple of weeks if you want to have a look

A few answers,

The Pacemaker does not have the flange welded on for the bolt up to the standard system, it does have 1 flange on the pipe and a second ready to weld onto your cut engine pipe near the main flex pipe. I do know as I have fitted dozens of these

The price is also very good as well, at this price perhaps we should get a few dozen sets lol

Paul, will have mine off when I do my engine change in a couple of weeks if you want to have a look
Very keen mate. I have a set of manifold plates here so if these can work just a matter of making the ends go from round > oval which shouldnt be too hard. Let me know when they are off very keen for a look

thanks mal, and we can get a group buy if you really want... but i am NOT organizing it hahahha also remember that the 220 was an approx price

please find out when you can! interested now too! my only quote was upto 1100 installed (with a hiflow cat too)

I would also be interested!

220 for paccies?!?!?!?!!?!?!?
buy em now, dont mess around!
when i got a set of extractors put in they charged me 200, and yeah cant complain with that, i called around a few places and that was the lowest.

220? Are they for the 4cyl? Coz thats wat it sounds like... You should know that you have to have a flange pipe made up and if it is a v6 your looking at a costly installation... It could cost you $500 all up ! ! ! ! you need to be careful with that, which is still cheap - but first ask them how much it is to install. If its around the $450 mark all up - id go for HM headers if i were you, ive been in cars with both the headers, pacemakers are great but seem to work mid-high range, where as the HMs work from down low all the way up to mid which is what you use most of the time when driving on the road. Its only rare times that you rev it up past 4500rpm.

wendnarb Love the rims on your ride! !! ! ! ! ! !

may be you should double check that quote Whip.

may be you should double check that quote Whip.

he said that it was for a V6 TJ Magna... but it was an Approx Quote... so im waiting for him to email me back the exact quote

he said that it was for a V6 TJ Magna... but it was an Approx Quote... so im waiting for him to email me back the exact quote

sure mate.

He may also increase the cost of puting it on to make up for the part, alot of them do that, they offered me $120 for the muffler - puting it on was also 120 lol so 240 all up - bought a bolt on for 200. I bought HM headers $480 from ebay - Brand new, their stainless steel, and the great part, STRAIGHT BOLT ON ! so no labor costs as i did it myself - (it took me 6hrs lol).... and they provide low range torque and smoother reving engineee. very happy ! ! ! look at the posts about people who have had experience with PACEMAKERS, doesnt look like there wat they claim to be... Pacemaker is a good brand and all, but if your geting offered 220, lol as for TOTAL cost coz thats wat matters, if you get bolt on's (HM same as Ralliart ones) then you can do it yourself....use the right header cement and new gaskets - its not hard just time consuming.And even if you get it installed most places are charging $150 alone for hte FLEX pipe - so take it alll into consideration...

To the best of my knowledge, the HM's are straight bolt on on (up to) TJ's but not for TL's onwards...the length of pipe at the flex pipe needs to be modified (shortened). Not a big deal, but does add to the cost if you pay someone to do it. Having siad that it may vary from model to mode also....would be interested to see what others who have put on HM's have done to get theirs to fit their model Magna.

Hmmm i wouldent mind finding out mow much the HMs will cost... because i may save some money and just get the HMs even if they are a little more expensive.. so i can do it myself... and not pay someone like exhaust technology 350 bucks to install the pacemakers ( yes i got a quote)

HM headers are the same as whats on the ralliart, and they are said to be not much better than the stock headers, which flow surprisingly well for OEM cast items.

EDIT: Hey Whippy do you even have a high flow muffler? If not you will probably not even notice a difference between stock, HM and Pacemaker headers anyway.

Hey Whip... A week ago i rang up 7 different mechanics & exhausts shops & got quoted from $200 up to $400 for just to install pacemakers on a V6 TJ,,, I would ring around if i was you... & i'm happy with my pacies... Good luck with whatever you decide mate...

HM headers are the same as whats on the ralliart, and they are said to be not much better than the stock headers, which flow surprisingly well for OEM cast items.

EDIT: Hey Whippy do you even have a high flow muffler? If not you will probably not even notice a difference between stock, HM and Pacemaker headers anyway.

Yeah currently i have just stock exhaust.. but as the headers have a exhaust leak they need to be fixed first... then i will get a high flow cat, new resonator and a new muffler that isnt loud.. but still rumbly


Hey Whip... A week ago i rang up 7 different mechanics & exhausts shops & got quoted from $200 up to $400 for just to install pacemakers on a V6 TJ,,, I would ring around if i was you... & i'm happy with my pacies... Good luck with whatever you decide mate...

yeah i tried ringing around today but at 12.30 on sat most mechs are closed so i will ring around on monday arvo..

To the best of my knowledge, the HM's are straight bolt on on (up to) TJ's but not for TL's onwards...the length of pipe at the flex pipe needs to be modified (shortened). Not a big deal, but does add to the cost if you pay someone to do it. Having siad that it may vary from model to mode also....would be interested to see what others who have put on HM's have done to get theirs to fit their model Magna.

HM fitted straight up to my TL. Why would there be a difference in the pipe length on 3rd gen? floor pans and engine location are the same.

Cheers,
Alan

HM fitted straight up to my TL. Why would there be a difference in the pipe length on 3rd gen? floor pans and engine location are the same.

Cheers,
Alan

You are correct about the engine and floor pan dimensions. But you tell me...out of curiosity I checked under my wifes KH and my KL, and my cat sits about 25mm more forward (close to the engine) Both are stock setup. But yours is also an AWD, so it may be different again. Need to compare apples with apples.

My KL was number 27 out of the factory, yours most likely later, production does change amongst all models. I know becasue when I worked on the MMAL prod line, it wasnt unusual for them to make subtle changes all the time to the same model, depending on part availability, why would the exhaust be any different?

HM headers are the same as whats on the ralliart, and they are said to be not much better than the stock headers, which flow surprisingly well for OEM cast items.

EDIT: Hey Whippy do you even have a high flow muffler? If not you will probably not even notice a difference between stock, HM and Pacemaker headers anyway.

As I've said before headers are a waste of money for 3rd Gen except the AWD. Only if modified heads and a bigger cam is fitted will there be much gain. Even with the Ralliart cam and heads there is only 2kw in it from mid rpm up.

The stock system is fine, just needs the VR/VRX rear muffler or similar. The HMs have slightly smaller primary and secondary pipe diameters than stock to help mid-range torque a bit but thats the main gain. When Graham was flow testing the heads I think he said the flow went up an average 4-5% when he fitted the stock cast iron manifold to the ex ports. If the manifold is restrictive there will be no gain in flow, or maybe couple % maximum. But when it rises more than that the manifold is OK. The seconday join looks OK too where the rear bank connects into the system.


You are correct about the engine and floor pan dimensions. But you tell me...out of curiosity I checked under my wifes KH and my KL, and my cat sits about 25mm more forward (close to the engine) Both are stock setup. But yours is also an AWD, so it may be different again. Need to compare apples with apples.

My KL was number 27 out of the factory, yours most likely later, production does change amongst all models. I know becasue when I worked on the MMAL prod line, it wasnt unusual for them to make subtle changes all the time to the same model, depending on part availability, why would the exhaust be any different?

OK thanks for the clarification. Still don't understand why all header brands aren't affected by MMAL changing ex pipes on the run.

Cheers,
Alan

Sorry I quoted 25 mm above meant to say 25cm...

As I've said before headers are a waste of money for 3rd Gen except the AWD.

Argh! What's wrong with the headers on the AWD? Are they different to the FWD??

And I'd put the idea of exhaust mods way down on my wish list.

So, RPW extractors being Pacemakers but actually fit, are probably the better choice for the DIYer?

Argh! What's wrong with the headers on the AWD? Are they different to the FWD??

And I'd put the idea of exhaust mods way down on my wish list.


Yes they are different. The problem with the AWD is the rear bank secondary pipe and join. The pipe is only half the length it should be and the join reverse flows rear bank gases into front bank flow direction.

Cheers,
Alan

So, RPW extractors being Pacemakers but actually fit, are probably the better choice for the DIYer?

Hey Mo, RPW & Hurricane are the same, Pacie's are'nt.

Alan,
Thanks for showing everyone why the AWD downpipe join is such a mess.

I had my exhaust off a while ago to fit a thicker front sway bar and could not believe how badly designed this area of the exhaust is on the AWD models.

This is the reason that Mitsubishi show a lower power output on the AWD compared to the FWD models.

The rest of the system is nice and smooth and straight, especially with the sports muffler.

Unfortunately Bolton Performance have now worked out that that HM headers are popular and have upped the Buy it Now price from $495 to $640.


Gerry

Hey Mo, RPW & Hurricane are the same, Pacie's are'nt.Oops. Cheers.

Yes, thanks very much for the photos, Alan - I thought only plumbers used T intersection joins in pipe.

Can I submit those pics to the Australian Top Gears "What were they thinking" segment? I think it deserves both public humiliation and rectifying in my car ASAP! :)

Yes, thanks very much for the photos, Alan - I thought only plumbers used T intersection joins in pipe.

Can I submit those pics to the Australian Top Gears "What were they thinking" segment? I think it deserves both public humiliation and rectifying in my car ASAP! :)

Yes it is a mess but don't be too quick to acid Mitsubishi, many other auto makers have done the same or worse. Just take a geek at some of Toyota's highly acclaimed engineering on the V6 Camry exhaust for example. Then there was the horrible ex manifold Colin Champan cobbled for the Lotus Elan when they fitted the Twin Cam Lotus Cortina engine. From memory that cost the about 15hp, dropped from 105-108hp in the Cortina to about 90hp in the Elan.

Cheers,
Alan

Yes, thanks very much for the photos, Alan - I thought only plumbers used T intersection joins in pipe.

Can I submit those pics to the Australian Top Gears "What were they thinking" segment? I think it deserves both public humiliation and rectifying in my car ASAP! :)

Mitsubishi did the T join in the 2nd gens as well. When I had my KS, I visited a D&T exhaust shop wanting a custom header when they said that the pipe from the 3rd gens will fit so ended up fitting one that they had left over from a previous job.

Great info guys, Just a bit of info ,the holden commodore be it the sedan wagon coupe etc lost power with the AWD as well due to header design.

Remember the monaro 4wd by HSV a couple of years back...It was down in power that was due to the exhaust system only, and HSV owners said i want a car with no traction and full power.....work that out?

If a pipe is cheaper to make and only losses a few KW's the factory will do it. Hence why we are all here,lol

Sorry if im off topic a bit but im bored and thought i might share some info.

Back on topic my second gen has the worst pipe setup and join with the v6.

If i lived in NSW i'd pay what ever it cost to get a custom setup like the guy with the white second gen..On this forum.Thats how it should be done.

Pacemakers are $440, not $220.

Great info guys, Just a bit of info ,the holden commodore be it the sedan wagon coupe etc lost power with the AWD as well due to header design.

Remember the monaro 4wd by HSV a couple of years back...It was down in power that was due to the exhaust system only, and HSV owners said i want a car with no traction and full power.....work that out?

If a pipe is cheaper to make and only losses a few KW's the factory will do it. Hence why we are all here,lol

Sorry if im off topic a bit but im bored and thought i might share some info.

Back on topic my second gen has the worst pipe setup and join with the v6.

If i lived in NSW i'd pay what ever it cost to get a custom setup like the guy with the white second gen..On this forum.Thats how it should be done.

See my post above. All you need is to go to the wreckers and get the secondary pipes of a 3rd gen and get an exhaust place to fit it up. Wreckers are more than happy to get rid of stock exhaust parts. I know that they won't buy any as I tried selling the stock one after fitting the HM headers.

Pacemakers are $440, not $220.

yep io can confirm as i just got an email from Shawn at Philcom Rally... his "approx" quote was wrong.

Yeah. Only a 50% underquote. *facepalm*

i got HM headers on my TH Magna, i didnt notice much POWER gain, but torque for sure... There was noticable torque improvement... But if your after KW then prb not the way to go as far as $/KW is concerned.
Funny literally the day after i bought mine it went up to $640 from $495. I just thought it costs $440 for pacemakers, but you need a extra $120 for the flex pipe and $180 for fitting, thought may as well get stainless steel ones for LESS - bolt on so i can do it myself and save installation... Plus Stainless steel so got to have a benefit there.. I just wanted to improve every day driving - and seeing Mitsu Ralliart has chose these - i thought best way to go... Heaps of people here have spoken about the Pacemaker ones only improving 3000rpm n up - i rarely go there in normal driving - so the low-mid torque was wat i was after and these worked great for that.