never mind.

I am talking to some seriously good people who know auto transmissions and differentials in detail, (due to my LSD project).

They all have said about 12-15% for the 380 auto....maximum.

The manual even less.

Simple fact...we are NOT losing 50 kw of heat in a drivetrain as short as these there isnt that amount of energy or fuel consumption.

The alloy casting would fail very quickly and the transmission fluid would vapourize.


.

I am not sure drivetrain powerloss can be attributed to heat transfer mate - I suspect friction and momentum losses would be the contributing factor - with heat being a by-product of the friction throughout the mechanicals.

never mind.

Someone care to argue these?
.

Probably shows negligible performance gain, more audible comfort than anything else.

Yeah, I'll argue them as someone who has done many runs on 3 Dyno Dynamics machines in Brisbane and got very similiar, consistent results.

Your first figure for a stock AUTO is way over optimistic. My first runs with straight thru exhaust only was 136kw ATW. There was a large release of power from 3500rpm with this mod. Commonsense says if you replace the tri-flow muffler design with a straight thru you are going to get a better flow = more power.
I don't need to argue this - Mitsubishi did it themselves with the Magna Sports etc.
Stock is 125-128kw no more.
Your theories re drivetrain losses are just that. Essentially the engine and drivetrain are Magna based, and when you look there you can see similiar losses.

Dual exhaust is a misnomer, as you know. It is the free flowing muffler(s) that give power gains not the split exhaust.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stock Mitsi 380 139 KW ATW (165 KW ATF with all precats,intake restrictions, rich AFR as from factory, 175 on a dyno with straight through exhaust)

Extractor mod 8 KW ATW

Dual exhaust 5 KW ATW

Piggy back ECU 5 KW ATW after market, any flavour

Galant intake 3 KW ATW

Supercharger 40 KW ATW

-----------------------------------------
200 kw at the wheels maximum
-----------------------------------------


Did you factor in the removal of the 3 CATS that are replaced with one 1 High Flow CAT?

The removal of all 3 CATs which would be replaced with a High Flow CAT probably would be worth around 13kw ATW

Did you factor in the removal of the 3 CATS that are replaced with one 1 High Flow CAT?

The removal of all 3 CATs which would be replaced with a High Flow CAT probably would be worth around 13kw ATW

That would be factored into the extractors equation.

Like Knotched said stock power too high, take some out of that & put it in the extractors spot & would be a reasonable assumption.

never mind.

Thanks for the reply knotched.



LOL...I went to three different dyno dynamics operators with three 380's and got 139 kw give or take 2 kw.
I didn't just pluck it out of thin air....:)

I have an opinion of dyno dynamics shootout profiles....they are only good for commodores and falcons unless the operator really knows what he is doing.



Hmmm...but no extractors right, and both precats fitted nice and tight?

(that's a bit like having a cork in the mouth and a cork in the arse, all you did was take the cork out of the arse? :))




Hmmm...only if you fit extractors or improve the intake side as well.



Another 300 cc in the engine may just need to be factored in me thinks...LOL

Let's see 3500cc versus 3800cc = 9% more cubes....128kw +9%= well...about 139kw :)



Not my theories...
I am just relaying what some experts have said.
My sources are:-

(a) P.Adams transmission services Geelong
(b) Geelong differentials




It all comes down to bang for buck, and extractors yield more for roughly same money as dual pipes.

See comment about the two corks...:)

Speaking of corks, I agree with most of Blackstar's figures, except maybe for the effect of replacing the stock third cat with a hi-flo cat.

While I was at SKR last Saturday DaveTJ rocked in & he confirmed that the stock third cat is simply a white brick (i.e. no precious metals in it), but that it does restrict exhaust gas flow a bit. The whole 380 drivetrain was calibrated/configured to have three cats, then MMAL found that the first two cats did enough to meet Euro 3 emissions regs by themselves, and no need for a third cat. But too late by then to redesign & recalibate the whole exhaust system, so they just chucked in a white brick third cat with the same amount of restriction as a real cat, but at a fraction of the cost of a real cat.

So I reckon replacing it with a hi-flow cat (with extractors of course) releases an extra 3kw ATW at least.

I have all the mods listed by Blackstar except for the S/C, plus a couple of minor extra mods & a high flow third cat, and according to my last dyno run I'm making 170kw atw, not 160.

Which still leaves unanswered questions about the accuracy / calibration of the SKR dyno and manual v auto drivetrain losses.

I'm thinking that the SKR dyno was fairly accurate last Saturday, and the difference in Blackstar's calcs to my result is down to the hi-flow third cat & a manual having a little less drivetrain losses than an auto. And maybe a lower stock output than the 139kw suggested by Blackstar.

I agree with Knotched & Fooz that the stock auto kw ATW are maybe a little overstated and the various intake & exhaust mods, when done in combination, release a bit more than 21kw. So instead of 139 to 160 for an auto, say 143 to 167 for a manual, it would be more like 130 to 163 for an auto and 135 to 170 for a manual. But that's for all the mods except S/C, not just some of them. To use a BS PC term, these mods have 'synergy', i.e. the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

KJ.

Thanks for the reply knotched.



LOL...I went to three different dyno dynamics operators with three 380's and got 139 kw give or take 2 kw.
I didn't just pluck it out of thin air....:)

I have an opinion of dyno dynamics shootout profiles....they are only good for commodores and falcons unless the operator really knows what he is doing.



Hmmm...but no extractors right, and both precats fitted nice and tight?

(that's a bit like having a cork in the mouth and a cork in the arse, all you did was take the cork out of the arse? :))




Hmmm...only if you fit extractors or improve the intake side as well.



Another 300 cc in the engine may just need to be factored in me thinks...LOL

Let's see 3500cc versus 3800cc = 9% more cubes....128kw +9%= well...about 139kw :)



Not my theories...
I am just relaying what some experts have said.
My sources are:-

(a) P.Adams transmission services Geelong
(b) Geelong differentials




It all comes down to bang for buck, and extractors yield more for roughly same money as dual pipes.

See comment about the two corks...:)

Stock auto Magna is not 128kwatw, more like 110-115kwatw.

Replacing the tri flow muffler with a highflow muffler will see more power and torque without doing any other mods. S2 TJ VRX says so.

Extractors + muffler + 90mm intake would be the best value for money mods.

never mind.

LOL...I went to three different dyno dynamics operators with three 380's and got 139 kw give or take 2 kw.
I didn't just pluck it out of thin air....:)

And neither did I, bud.


I have an opinion of dyno dynamics shootout profiles....they are only good for commodores and falcons unless the operator really knows what he is doing.

Your opinion. We all have different experiences and the dynos I have used have been ChipTorque's base at Nerang QLD - I'm sure they would know what they are doing - and Foozer's tuner CNJ.


Hmmm...but no extractors right, and both precats fitted nice and tight?

(that's a bit like having a cork in the mouth and a cork in the arse, all you did was take the cork out of the arse? :))

Hmmm...only if you fit extractors or improve the intake side as well.

No. You will get a gain with a straight thru muffler and nothing else. Proven on the dyno.
How does the Magna Sports get 163kw over the stock 155KW? Muffler; nothing else.




Let's see 3500cc versus 3800cc = 9% more cubes....128kw +9%= well...about 139kw :)


You misquoted me. That was for a stock 380, not a Magna.

Have a look at this page -

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69384&highlight=dyno+day&page=24

Interesting to compare outputs on the same dyno, for even the same car (some have big variations per run). Many of the Magnas reap 105-115KW ATW depending on year and model (BTW the Magna with ~ 127KW has extractors and reflashed ECU). Since the transmission between them and 380s are virtually identical and the claimed output of a 380 is 175KW ATF versus Magna auto 2WD say 155-163KW ATF, I can't see the 380 putting out 139ATW KW - an increase of 20-25KW more ATW.

End of the day - the end KW figure means very little, as Jason has said. Depends on too many factors and putting a definite value on an output is totally suspect.
The only time it has value is when comparing old/new configurations on the same dyno or comparing cars on the same day as above.

never mind.

Also remember that the 380 motor will gain more out of breathing mods as the heads can flow ALOT more air then standard 74 heads, so in terms of gain the 380's bigger motor and freer flowing heads will always be more then a comparable 6G74 SOHC.

never mind.

Also...that link you provided for dyno results shows the 380 as getting 134 kw atw on its best run with "no correction" applied.
(that's pretty close to the 139kw atw I reported with standard settings).

Except I don't know whose car that is so I am in the dark as to what mods have been done. But if it's an AMCer then expect the 90mm intake at the least. And 134 is pretty close to 128 too, particularly when the first run IS 128KW :P - Jury is still out.

I've already proven the gain from the muffler - it was two years ago. You should've been here.

I noticed a bigger gain from the muffler than the 90mm intake...

never mind.

ok ...you win...:)

Ha ha, no, we both win. Good discussion, thanks.

Whoever has done these mods is the winner.
I too found more improvement from the muffler (hence my enquiry) than with the intake or k&n, etc.

From memory the muffler mod knocked about 2-3 tenths off my 0-100 times! Remember too that the exhaust diam reduces dramatically to mate to the stocker which is removed to mate to the berklee or whatever.At the end off the day you can spout dyno figures till the cows come home but I like before and after performance figures best(cheaper too!).All the basic mods took about 8 tenths of my 0-100 times from memory.Do a few runs KJ,your times would be more interesting than a dyno number I reckon!

I think the muffler mod improves power delivery more than anything. There would be a gain, but not too much.

You can add me to the list of believers of the rear muffler mod delivering decent gains. It felt to me like a different car (yes, I know thats subjective) changing to the Berklee and that was still with the original intake.

When i had mine i got a bigger gain from the 90mm intake... lol

Sorry to go against everone elses opinions!

Now that I've driven a bit since the Exede was fitted last Saturday, including about 300k of country driving and stacks of city/peak hour driving, I can report back on the outcome.

Bottom line, the car feels crisper & cleaner & quicker right through the rev range and in all gears.

As Fooz & Knotched have noted before, not a huge boost in max power, but a handy boost through the rev range and it just 'feels' better. Could be a placebo effect but I don't think so.

Fuel economy has also shown a good improvement, ave around 10.5l/100k at the moment (combined city & country) compared to around 11.5 before.

When I was at SKR and straight after I noticed a waffly exhaust note just above idle, and again around 2,500 rpm.

Sounded like a small hole in the exhaust to me, in or near the extractors.

Took it to my exhaust guy and he found a small hole right where he had welded a little bracket on to keep the extractors apart (they originally rattled against each other when cold).

He welded up the hole for no charge, and immediately after the whole car felt even crisper & cleaner to drive.

So maybe there are another couple of kw lurking there now? Probably not, such a small hole shouldn't effect max power, but maybe those more in the know can advise?

KJ.

never mind.

Now that I've driven a bit since the Exede was fitted last Saturday, including about 300k of country driving and stacks of city/peak hour driving, I can report back on the outcome.

Bottom line, the car feels crisper & cleaner & quicker right through the rev range and in all gears.

As Fooz & Knotched have noted before, not a huge boost in max power, but a handy boost through the rev range and it just 'feels' better. Could be a placebo effect but I don't think so.

Fuel economy has also shown a good improvement, ave around 10.5l/100k at the moment (combined city & country) compared to around 11.5 before.

When I was at SKR and straight after I noticed a waffly exhaust note just above idle, and again around 2,500 rpm.

Sounded like a small hole in the exhaust to me, in or near the extractors.

Took it to my exhaust guy and he found a small hole right where he had welded a little bracket on to keep the extractors apart (they originally rattled against each other when cold).

He welded up the hole for no charge, and immediately after the whole car felt even crisper & cleaner to drive.

So maybe there are another couple of kw lurking there now? Probably not, such a small hole shouldn't effect max power, but maybe those more in the know can advise?

KJ.

Yep it's all about accurate tuning. Having your engine tuned to the max may not produce a bucket load more power but enhances the driving experience by improving throttle response, fuel economy, low down torque & just makes it so much more smoother & pleasent to drive.

Another example of this for me was my turbo deisel Pajero. I had a loss of power experience on my last visit to Fraser Island. In the end they did a intake manifold upgrade to the latest NT setup & upgraded my ECU to the latest firmware (all under the 5year warranty of course). Basically it drives way more smoother, has a heap more power & I am super happy with it.

Luckily for my Pajero they keep developing/improving the ECU programming & I am for one benefiting from this. The 380 the only way to get this equivelent is to install your own aftermarket chip & have it tuned to the max.

Just thought a mention of alscall's dyno figure was worth a discussion. 135kwatw in an AWD 5 speed auto 3rd gen Magna with the 3.8L from a 380! Wow man. Looking through the AWD dyno results thread, the general figure is around 95-110kwatw - you're making an extra 30kwatw, that's amazing. Must go like a cut snake.

I saw that too, and was wondering if its a full 380 engine or the 3.5 Magna tweaked/bored out to 3.8. Would be good to see a picture of that. Haven't seen any 380 engines in Magnas yet.

I saw that too, and was wondering if its a full 380 engine or the 3.5 Magna tweaked/bored out to 3.8. Would be good to see a picture of that. Haven't seen any 380 engines in Magnas yet.

A 380 engine in a magna wont look much different to the old 3.5L as ya use the inlet manifold/plenum, igniton setup and exhaust manifolds (or extractors) off the 3.5L, so visually it will look no different to a stock magna

A 380 engine in a magna wont look much different to the old 3.5L as ya use the inlet manifold/plenum, igniton setup and exhaust manifolds (or extractors) off the 3.5L, so visually it will look no different to a stock magna

Yep, had a look in Al's engine bay last Thursday night at the SA meet and it looks like a stock 3.5 with headers, even has the 3.5 airbox and intake snorkel, you'd never be able to tell it was a 6G75 underneath.

Grub,

It's a real 6G75, not a bored/stroked 6G74. Just has mainly 6G74 external bits including dizzie & ECU.

KJ.

Read the 380 Dyno thread post:
Car: KJ2 AWD
Mods: 6G75 swap, extractors, 200 cpi cat, 2.5" catback, plus straight through muffler

I vaguely recall reading something about Alscall's transplant, but can't remember details or find posts on it. Maybe he can chime and and tell us all about it. I'd probably love a low km 380 motor in my AWD but with only 140,000Kms on it, not really worthwhile yet.

D'oh - I should type my replies faster. 2 other posts since I opened this thread :)

Read the 380 Dyno thread post:

I vaguely recall reading something about Alscall's transplant, but can't remember details or find posts on it. Maybe he can chime and and tell us all about it. I'd probably love a low km 380 motor in my AWD but with only 140,000Kms on it, not really worthwhile yet.

D'oh - I should type my replies faster. 2 other posts since I opened this thread :)

I'm pretty sure Al's isn't just a low k 6G75, it was a zero k crate motor. That's why his avatar keeps changing, counting up the k's done so far.

KJ.

Yeah, mine was a brand new crate motor. :dancin:

Apart from a full exhaust from the headers back, nothing else has been done to it. All the externals have been swapped over, so basically I'm just using the heads & block. Only by checking the engine number would you be able to figure out that it's not 'stock'.

There have been a few 380 swaps into AWD's now & all have had a reasonably similar result, (on the same dyno btw), so it's a believable figure. I'll post G Bells dyno comparison to mine as soon as he gives me the ok to do so.

As for the driveability of it, I'm not going to go into too much detail here because I haven't really pushed it hard so far, being a new engine. What I will say is though that the power delivery is much smoother & more readily available, especially from launch. The 80 - 110 is nearly effortless, dropping back to 4th instead of 3rd but not feeling like it needs to go back that far. I have changed the torque convertor to a 3.0l one as well, which helps too. (Stall is higher than the standard one.)

The LPG hasn't been tuned yet, but on the one run that we did, it made 127 KW ATW. Looked a bit lean, however so we left it at that.

A bit OT, but what does the "standard" Sprintex AWD get ATW?

never mind.

You used the 6g74 heads didn't you? particularly if you have a distributor setup.
(crate motors are short motors in the 6G75)

Did the AWD auto just bolt onto the 6g75 without modification? Does it have a limited slip diff?

Just curious for my next project..:)

The motor contained everything, heads & all, ready to drop in, (minus the dodgy injector & missing spark plug!!) It had oil, belts etc.

The dissy from the AWD was used & the auto bolted up.

never mind.

I dont understand .....a new 6G75 doesnt have a distributor or the gear on it, you also dont get any belts or heads or even sump pans with a new 6g75 anymore.???

Where did your engine come from?

The G674 dizzy bolts into the rear head as per 6G74. Basically you change over all external pieces to 6G75 to match how it was with the 6g74. Ive done 2 of them now and its piss easy

I've dropped a warmed 75 motor and 3lt converter into my AWD with similar results to Alscall....boy what a difference! :happy:

I dont understand .....a new 6G75 doesnt have a distributor or the gear on it, you also dont get any belts or heads or even sump pans with a new 6g75 anymore.???

Where did your engine come from?

My engine came from the 'clearance centre' I believe. Had passed through a few sets of hands before it got to me. I assure you everything was on it. Sump, heads, belts, etc. Madmagna can confirm this for me & I can show you all the bits left over if you like.

never mind.

My engine came from the 'clearance centre' I believe. Had passed through a few sets of hands before it got to me. I assure you everything was on it. Sump, heads, belts, etc. Madmagna can confirm this for me & I can show you all the bits left over if you like.
If you don't mind telling, what did the 380 crate motor cost?

Been a bit quiet on this thread for a while, nothing for five months now.

I notice there have a couple of recent(ish) posts to the 380 Dyno Charts (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52148) thread, for stock as a rock auto 380s.

Blake showing 135 or 131 kw atw four months ago and today MS-75 showing 122 kw atw. Both on 91RON.

Quite a lot of difference, around 10%, could be all sorts of factors in play- different dynos, different temps and so on.

At least we now have a couple of base/stock auto figures to work from.

Also makes my 170 kw atw look not too shabby.

If we take the stock auto figure as 130kw, then I reckon 15kw of my extra 40kw is due to manual v auto and the other 25kw is due to the mods I have done.

Would be nice to have a stock manual figure though.

Let the arguments & debates recommence!

175kw stock at the fly and 122kw atw sounds spot on to me, Mitsubishi were not lying after all. It also re-confirms how restricted the 380 was.

It's all down to different dynos boys. You always have to take chassis dyno runs with a grain of salt - especially trying to compare across dynos. With a chassis dyno you should really be paying attention to %change - not the number.

I might pop down to SKR at some stage for a run on his as well - probably only once all my mods are on - however if I have before and after on GWW, and an after run on Steves you can back calc what the stock run on the SKR would have been.

Cheers,
Sean

Been a bit quiet on this thread for a while, nothing for five months now.
I notice there have a couple of recent(ish) posts to the 380 Dyno Charts (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52148) thread, for stock as a rock auto 380s.
Blake showing 135 or 131 kw atw four months ago and today MS-75 showing 122 kw atw. Both on 91RON.

Quite a lot of difference, around 10%, could be all sorts of factors in play- different dynos, different temps and so on.

At least we now have a couple of base/stock auto figures to work from.

Also makes my 170 kw atw look not too shabby.

If we take the stock auto figure as 130kw, then I reckon 15kw of my extra 40kw is due to manual v auto and the other 25kw is due to the mods I have done.

Would be nice to have a stock manual figure though.

Let the arguments & debates recommence!

I will start the discussion...:)

(a) I reckon SKR's dyno is unreliable (and that's being very,very kind)
(b) I don't believe your car makes 170kw atw KJ380 I would seek another dyno opertor if I were you.

I'm sorry mate, the numbers just don't add up.
(Know a Fence intended :))

I will start the discussion...:)

(a) I reckon SKR's dyno is unreliable (and that's being very,very kind)
(b) I don't believe your car makes 170kw atw KJ380 I would seek another dyno opertor if I were you.

I'm sorry mate, the numbers just don't add up.
(Know a Fence intended :))

Well seeing as my first SKR dyno run before fitting & tuning the Exede showed 184kw atw, I don't think 170kw is all that far from adding up. I reckon Steve probably screwed up the calibrations settings a bit that first time, but not so the second time.
Remember, we're talking manual not auto here and a number of 'little' intake & exhaust mods that compliment each other.
But I might try another dyno just for the hell of it.
And know a fence taken!

Well seeing as my first SKR dyno run before fitting & tuning the Exede showed 184kw atw, I don't think 170kw is all that far from adding up. I reckon Steve probably screwed up the calibrations settings a bit that first time, but not so the second time.
Remember, we're talking manual not auto here and a number of 'little' intake & exhaust mods that compliment each other.
But I might try another dyno just for the hell of it.
And know a fence taken!

Yes mate I certainly would.

I know a lot of people have respect for the guy, but i went out of my way to go there last time I went to the Clipsal races.
I wasn't inspired by the fact that his dyno was clearly broken and we had to wrestle to get the car on/off the dyno.
Or the fact that he forgot i made an appointment to have a dyno run that day.


Or the fact that I had to repair his laptop before he could do a dyno run for me.

I will not be going back to Steve....he charged me 3 times what I normally pay for a dyno run (with 3 runs).

In your case I would be screaming "foul" if I got a "happy dyno" result after having him do a performance mod.


There...I needed to get that off my chest for a while...:)

A Dyno Dynamics reading would be more helpful from you SA guys.

I have had my car on 3 separate ones here and they have all been closely comparable.

i vouch for the difference between auto vs manual power train loss

I have an auto vrx 380 with 90mm intake, k&n and berkelee muffler. I also have a stock as a rock manual vrx which i have just purchased.
When i picked up the manual 380 i couldnt believe how quick it was. I reckon it would have around 10kw more atw than my auto 380which has mods
Cant wait to do the muffler, intake and extractors on the manual VRX. Traction control and manual box work soooo well together too

i vouch for the difference between auto vs manual power train loss

I have an auto vrx 380 with 90mm intake, k&n and berkelee muffler. I also have a stock as a rock manual vrx which i have just purchased.
When i picked up the manual 380 i couldnt believe how quick it was. I reckon it would have around 10kw more atw than my auto 380which has mods
Cant wait to do the muffler, intake and extractors on the manual VRX. Traction control and manual box work soooo well together too

Thanks for the back up Terry.

Funny about the TCL though, I find it to be almost useless and very little difference whether I have it turned on or off. Heaps of wheelspin in 1st and plenty in 2nd either way. Maybe you'll find the same thing once you do the intake & exhaust mods!

Forgot to add - any chance you can get the new toy dyno'ed before you start on the mods? And then another run on the same dyno after the intake & exhaust mods (preferrably under the same conditions)?

Not asking much, but we really need a stock manual dyno figure to work from!

i vouch for the difference between auto vs manual power train loss

I have an auto vrx 380 with 90mm intake, k&n and berkelee muffler. I also have a stock as a rock manual vrx which i have just purchased.
When i picked up the manual 380 i couldnt believe how quick it was. I reckon it would have around 10kw more atw than my auto 380which has mods
Cant wait to do the muffler, intake and extractors on the manual VRX. Traction control and manual box work soooo well together too


I'd like to see a dyno comparison between both your cars.
The mods to your auto are negligible, the KN is a no gain, the Intake maybe 1-2kw, the Berklee no gain.....(my personal opinions)
So it would be a good test because you have the convenience of owning both.

I'll predict the following on the record.

The auto....130-135 atw
The man....140-142 atw

Beers on me if it's 10% or more out....:)

yes would be interesting to find out. I will definetly get the manual one dynoed once it comes back from full respray. Will get it dynoed stock then again after extractors, intake and exhaust mods and post results.
Might be a few weeks though as Regency park is booked out for vehicle inspections and soonest i can get in is 24th november dammit. Too many repaired hail damaged cars getting reregistered at the moment so they are flat out apparently

The mods to your auto are negligible, the KN is a no gain, the Intake maybe 1-2kw, the Berklee no gain.....(my personal opinions)


I find your comments interesting. Knotched did numerous dyno runs with the bigger intake and got repeatable results showing a fair bit more than 1 - 2kw...I am sure he will remember the exact figure & I believe the NZ 380 has an extra 5kw at the fly which is solely due to the 90mm. And no gain for the Berklee, have you got one on any of your 380's? By all accounts it is pretty much the same as the Lukey LR2779 which gave an 8kw increase on the TJ Sport and I cant see why it would be different on a 380.

Intake is worth 4-5 kw & 4-5 nm.

I find your comments interesting. Knotched did numerous dyno runs with the bigger intake and got repeatable results showing a fair bit more than 1 - 2kw...I am sure he will remember the exact figure & I believe the NZ 380 has an extra 5kw at the fly which is solely due to the 90mm..

So you are saying I am out by a kilowatt and a half...maybe at redline?




And no gain for the Berklee, have you got one on any of your 380's? .

Nope, cause of my opinion that it is a low bang for buck mod on a 380.


By all accounts it is pretty much the same as the Lukey LR2779 which gave an 8kw increase on the TJ Sport and I cant see why it would be different on a 380.

I can see your logic there, but something you may have overlooked in that analogy.

It's insignificant in terms of bang for buck on a 380...because the 380 precats are the bottleneck, not the muffler....I don't remember the TJ having precats...so apples Vs apples NOT.


I guess I would rather rely on actual dyno results rather than people having a "feeling" that it's got better throttle response and "crisper"....


Would I fit a larger intake for a couple of Kw atw?...sure...5 minute job...50 buks.

Would I fit a Kn for zero gain...nope...100 buks wasted IMHO

Would I fit a different muffler without doing headers? Nope....iif the intake is restricted, clearing the ass end won't do much, unless you force the intake induction.


(as always just my opinions but in light of the fact that noone has done a before and after dyno run, it's as good an opinion as any other...but feel free to flame me, I am braced for it.. :))

Damn,
Now I am confused.

I have just done the 90mm intake.

Was about to go for the berklee, but not so sure now. However I have heard positive things from almost all that have done it. Only one real bad comment, saying "No Gain" from Blackstar.

So Mr Blackstar, what's your opinion on my next step? Is there something else I should spend my $200 on that I haven't read here yet? I didn't want the berklee for the sound, Im not an 18yo.

Blackstar: I am not sure whether to thank you for confusing me, or for saving me $200......

Might just have to Dyno mine before and after, post the results and either laugh at blackstar for being incorrect, or have him laugh at my wasted dollars!

most of that's all tongue in cheek, no dis intended.

Nope, cause of my opinion that it is a low bang for buck mod on a 380.



I can see your logic there, but something you may have overlooked in that analogy.

It's insignificant in terms of bang for buck on a 380...because the 380 precats are the bottleneck, not the muffler....I don't remember the TJ having precats...so apples Vs apples NOT.


I guess I would rather rely on actual dyno results rather than people having a "feeling" that it's got better throttle response and "crisper"....


Would I fit a larger intake for a couple of Kw atw?...sure...5 minute job...50 buks.

Would I fit a Kn for zero gain...nope...100 buks wasted IMHO

Would I fit a different muffler without doing headers? Nope....iif the intake is restricted, clearing the ass end won't do much, unless you force the intake induction.


(as always just my opinions but in light of the fact that noone has done a before and after dyno run, it's as good an opinion as any other...but feel free to flame me, I am braced for it.. :))

No intention to flame you, just a differing opinion to yours which is cool. Just for your info, the standard rear muffler on a 380 has two 180 degree bends which makes it pretty restrictive regardless of how many pre-cats it has. Replace the standard muffler with a straight thru and you are removing a huge restriction which is going to result in a gain...apples vs apples.

aRiOle, please dont be put of by someones comments who hasnt even got the muffler your are considering. A reasonable number of members on here have the Berklee and I cant recall any of them being unhappy so you be the judge.

Damn,
Now I am confused.

I have just done the 90mm intake.

Was about to go for the berklee, but not so sure now. However I have heard positive things from almost all that have done it. Only one real bad comment, saying "No Gain" from Blackstar.

So Mr Blackstar, what's your opinion on my next step? Is there something else I should spend my $200 on that I haven't read here yet? I didn't want the berklee for the sound, Im not an 18yo.

Blackstar: I am not sure whether to thank you for confusing me, or for saving me $200......

Might just have to Dyno mine before and after, post the results and either laugh at blackstar for being incorrect, or have him laugh at my wasted dollars!

most of that's all tongue in cheek, no dis intended.



Sorry for confusing you.....:happy:

I won't laugh at you...(hell,... look at all the money I waste on toys/tax deductions...)

If you really have to spend money on the exhaust then why not look at the dual exhausts?

At least it will look hot, even if it doesn't go any faster or use less fuel...?

And it's just a duplication of the stock muffler I believe.......

Do the berklee, there is definitely a seat of the pants gain, even if the dyno proves wrong. Plus the exhaust note is a lot better than standard.

Damn,
Now I am confused.

I have just done the 90mm intake.

Was about to go for the berklee, but not so sure now. However I have heard positive things from almost all that have done it. Only one real bad comment, saying "No Gain" from Blackstar.

So Mr Blackstar, what's your opinion on my next step? Is there something else I should spend my $200 on that I haven't read here yet? I didn't want the berklee for the sound, Im not an 18yo.

Blackstar: I am not sure whether to thank you for confusing me, or for saving me $200......

Might just have to Dyno mine before and after, post the results and either laugh at blackstar for being incorrect, or have him laugh at my wasted dollars!

most of that's all tongue in cheek, no dis intended.

I have the 90mm,K&N,thermobloc and the berklee and,although having no power figures to quote,can say that it reduced my 0-100 times by about .7 of a second.Got another .2 after fitting wider tyres and lowered suspension, reckon if i had an LSD like Blackstar it would be quite a bit quicker again!

Sorry for confusing you.....:happy:

I won't laugh at you...(hell,... look at all the money I waste on toys/tax deductions...)

If you really have to spend money on the exhaust then why not look at the dual exhausts?

At least it will look hot, even if it doesn't go any faster or use less fuel...?

And it's just a duplication of the stock muffler I believe.......

I think you are the only one on this forum who has such a dual exhaust system, on your TMR. Everyone else, including me, has found that the stock muffler or a Berklee BS0655 simply doesn't fit on the passenger side due to the fuel filler pipe cover getting in the way.

Any chance you can post up some pics of the passenger side muffler set up on the TMR? I have a sneaking suspicion that the passenger side muffler on the TMR is not the same as a stock muffler, I suspect it's quite a lot shorter to clear the fuel filler pipe cover.

And I agree with Blue, the stock muffler, whilst not the most restrictive stock muffler around, is still more restrictive than a straight through design.

Any chance you can post up some pics of the passenger side muffler set up on the TMR?

I have a sneaking suspicion that the passenger side muffler on the TMR is not the same as a stock muffler, I suspect it's quite a lot shorter to clear the fuel filler pipe cover.

.



Ok....but it sits so low its hard to get a camera underneath the damned thing...but here is my best effort at it for now....

.
Passenger side muffler...

.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/214/tmrlhs.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/tmrlhs.jpg/)

Center.....
..
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/8841/rearshowingidenticalpip.jpg (http://img833.imageshack.us/i/rearshowingidenticalpip.jpg/)


Driver's side muffler....



http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6042/tmr380leftsidemuffler.jpg (http://img843.imageshack.us/i/tmr380leftsidemuffler.jpg/)

.

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/9846/tmrleftsidecutout.jpg (http://img52.imageshack.us/i/tmrleftsidecutout.jpg/)

.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7841/tmrleftsidepremufflerpi.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/tmrleftsidepremufflerpi.jpg/)

.

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/5967/tmrtwointooneafterrearc.jpg (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/tmrtwointooneafterrearc.jpg/)

.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3272/tmrrhsstockmuffler.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/tmrrhsstockmuffler.jpg/)

.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5311/tmrlhspiperoute.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/tmrlhspiperoute.jpg/)

.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6400/tmrlhspiperoute2.jpg (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/tmrlhspiperoute2.jpg/)


.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8348/tmrlhsheatshieldetc.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/tmrlhsheatshieldetc.jpg/)

I think you are the only one on this forum who has such a dual exhaust system, on your TMR. Everyone else, including me, has found that the stock muffler or a Berklee BS0655 simply doesn't fit on the passenger side due to the fuel filler pipe cover getting in the way.

Any chance you can post up some pics of the passenger side muffler set up on the TMR? I have a sneaking suspicion that the passenger side muffler on the TMR is not the same as a stock muffler, I suspect it's quite a lot shorter to clear the fuel filler pipe cover.

And I agree with Blue, the stock muffler, whilst not the most restrictive stock muffler around, is still more restrictive than a straight through design.

Except me, my two big Supercats (SCM8802) fit perfectly :happy:

Blackstar,

I think I can see what they have done.

Both mufflers look like stock size & shape to me, including the passenger side. Full length, not shorter.

But the front (closest to the front of the car) of the passenger side one at least is angled down a fair way to clear the fuel filler pipe cover. You can see how this end of the muffler is almost level with bottom of the suspension, much lower than on the driver's side of a non-TMR.

Having another look at your pics, both mufflers hang the same way. I think they are both angled done at the front compared to stock.

KJ I think you will find the stock muffler may sit he same way. Just had a look at mine & they are slightly down hill towards the front too.

I dug my muffler pics up for a comparison. Come on you guys no more saying they don't fit blah blah blah, Blackstar's TMR & mine have both got nice big mufflers under the back!!

My dual exhaust showing the new bigger better Supercat mufflers (Part No - SCM8802)

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh60/foozrcool/P1010563.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh60/foozrcool/P1010565.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh60/foozrcool/P1010556.jpg

I have twin mufflers. I'll take some pics and post them up.
If I remember the passenger one I fitted was a Redback which fitted fine but droned like crazy.
I ended up with 2 Powerflows

Ok now

Mate you have a typo in your link!!

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/chrisv/twintip.jpg

ill grab some pics of my varexs. but that have the motors on the top so they are mounted low generally

Fooz,

I reckon your Supercats are a fair bit 'thinner' than the stock mufflers, so the passenger side one fits under the fuel filler pipe cover without too much angle needed.

Chris,

Your mufflers look way smaller than stock, especially a lot 'thinner'.

I went to three muffler shops and after taking measurements they all said no way to fit a Berklee BS0655 on the passenger side, impossible without dropping it stupid low.

Going by memory the Berklee is a bit fatter or 'thicker' than the stock muffler.

I'll go measure up my stock muffler (still sitting in the shed) and post up the specs, then maybe someone (Braedz?) can do the same for the Berklee BS0655.

OK, stock muffler measurements are 500mm long x 300mm wide x 170mm thick.

Or in Imperial = 19.7" x 11.8" x 6.7".

Def not a standard size muffler, AFAIK all standard after market mufflers are built in even inch or half inch sizes, such as 20" x 12" x 7".

I dont have a tape measure handy, but here is a picture.

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/braedz/upload.jpg

R/h muffler is 40cm x 25cm approx
l/h is 36 x 20 approx

I dont have a tape measure handy, but here is a picture.

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae35/braedz/upload.jpg

Thanks Braedz.

Notice how the front end of the muffler sits much higher than Blackstar's TMR twin mufflers?

And no need to measure up your Berklee BS0655, this page http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/product_info.php?cPath=343_344_500&products_id=602&osCsid=9bdd8223f80eab4327fd8f7e03d0bd80 shows it is 20" x 10" x 6".

So fractionally longer than the stock muffler and a little thinner, but a fair bit narrower.

R/h muffler is 40cm x 25cm approx
l/h is 36 x 20 approx

Yep, that's way smaller than stock, even on the drivers side. And I'll bet they are also much thinner, probably something like 120mm (stock is 170 mm, Berklee BS0655 is 150mm)

I notice that on mine the heat shield is fitted on the passenger side underbody.

You guys might want to look as to why TMR bothered doing that bit?

The Supercat SCM 8802 specs from the website is 2 1/4" straight through, 17" long, 11" wide & 6" high & are guaranteed to fit a 380 in a dual exhaust setup as per my pics. No drone & straight through.

Was thinking of bolting these on the side for some extra straight through/flow through.

Seems like the way to go....one each side and no clearance issues with fuel tank fillers etc...


Obviously an advanced design that doesn't need any precats etc.etc..:happy:

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/4893/thrushsidepipes.jpg (http://img801.imageshack.us/i/thrushsidepipes.jpg/)

Was thinking of bolting these on the side for some extra straight through/flow through.

Seems like the way to go....one each side and no clearance issues with fuel tank fillers etc...

Obviously an advanced design that doesn't need any precats etc.etc..:happy:



Haha....your not serious right?

Haha....your not serious right?


maybe not that exact one....but if driveshaft gets in the way, hell, why not? :)

Sorry to keep harping on about twin system mufflers, this thread is meant to be about dyno discussion. But there are two schools of thought.

School 1, and probably the bigger school: The stock 380 muffler is very restrictive and replacing it with a true straight through design will net you an extra 5, 10, 15 (pick a number any number) killerwasps on the dyno.

School 2, represented most vocally by our old mate Blackstar: The stock muffler is OK, all the power robbing restriction is in the cats especially the two pre-cats in the stock exhaust manifolds, and replacing the rear muffler with a true straight through design will net you one or two killerwasps at most.

Whether you go single system or dual/twin exhaust system, we seem to have pretty much universal agreement that if you go for a true straight through muffler (or pair of mufflers), you need to fit the biggest you can to prevent (or at least minimise) the dreaded Mitsu six cylinder drone. So much of the debate here has been about just how big a muffler can be fitted on the passenger side.

So (I'm gradually getting to the point!) after running around for a few months now with a twin system, extractors, high flow cat, two inline resonators, and a pair of the biggest straight through mufflers my exhaust guy reckons will fit on the passenger side, I started to get a bit sick of the drone at certain revs under certain conditions. Mainly between 2,000 and 3,000 rpm under load, such as going up a hill. Under 2,000 not a problem at all, quiet as a mouse in fact, and over 3,000 more of a roar than a drone and at over 110 km/h the noise was 'left behind' to a degree.

I asked my exhaust guy about fitting two stock 380 mufflers (I still have my original and getting hold of another should be relatively easy & cheap). He was adamant that no way would a stock muffler fit on the passenger side, even if he dropped the front of it enough to clear the fuel filler pipe cover. The major problem is the 'inpipe' offset, it's the wrong way around for the passenger side. And flipping the muffer over won't work either, as the outlet pipe is not centred top to bottom - it sits a bit lower than centre.

I don't know what TMR did to fit an apparently stock muffler on the passenger side. Maybe they had a special muffler made up (my money is on that), or maybe they flipped a stock muffler over and covered the 'upside down' outlet with a large tip (Blackstar's pics suggest this is possible).

Anyway, getting to the point at last, today I got my exhaust guy to fit a pair of Lukey 'Super Turbo' sports mufflers, model LT17793.

Not straight through, tri-flow design (same as the stock 380 muffler but a little less restrictive), and size 14" x 10" x 4.5".

See this page for details: http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/product_info.php?cPath=124_295&products_id=3195&osCsid=cf5cf3743b78b6e2f6802712949ff1f8.

First impressions are far less drone (not completely banished, just a tiny bit at the usual 2,000 to 3,000 range under load), still a nice sporty note but not too loud, bit of a rasp from the extractors still (I like it!), and no detectable loss of performance.

The arse end also looks a bit tidier now, the old mufflers being so big in diameter stuck out like the proverbials.

Pleasantly surprised by the price as well, Best Mufflers ask $155 each = $310 for a pair (see link), my exhaust guy charged me $250 all up including roughly 90 minutes labour.

So put me in School 1.5 for now.

Firstly KJ380...get another exhaust guy, he has made a lot of good money from you already.

(Remember he tried to charge me $150 for a pair of straight oxygen sensor extenders)

Forget what he says...I suspect he wants to sell what he stocks.

TMR definitely use a stock GT/VRX oval muffler.

Their kit assumes you are still retaining your existing muffler....so you don't get two mufflers in their kit, just the one...

I confirmed it with them last week,no maybe, no could be, but definitely is two stock mufflers of the same length.

I have chosen to go down that path....I like the heatshield they fit, the professional cutout with carbon fibre insert...etc etc.

I am reasonably happy to go with Peter West's** advice and that is that their exhaust has plenty of headroom flow wise even for a forced induction 380.

He has a pretty good idea about cars...:tired:



(** Peter West is the head mechanic at TMR who preps the Bathurst Evo's, prepped the Godzilla bathurst slaughter in the 1990's and designed most of the TMR380 package)


Oh...he also says KN filters are a crock in the 380's.......:happy:

Oh...he also says KN filters are a crock in the 380's.......:happy:

FFS sake Blackstar - give it up. I have a K&N and I'm 1000 per cent happy with it. We know your opinion.
You know how much I've dynoed mine.

Firstly KJ380...get another exhaust guy, he has made a lot of good money from you already.

(Remember he tried to charge me $150 for a pair of straight oxygen sensor extenders)

Forget what he says...I suspect he wants to sell what he stocks.

TMR definitely use a stock GT/VRX oval muffler.

Their kit assumes you are still retaining your existing muffler....so you don't get two mufflers in their kit, just the one...

I confirmed it with them last week,no maybe, no could be, but definitely is two stock mufflers of the same length.

I have chosen to go down that path....I like the heatshield they fit, the professional cutout with carbon fibre insert...etc etc.

I am reasonably happy to go with Peter West's** advice and that is that their exhaust has plenty of headroom flow wise even for a forced induction 380.

He has a pretty good idea about cars...:tired:



(** Peter West is the head mechanic at TMR who preps the Bathurst Evo's, prepped the Godzilla bathurst slaughter in the 1990's and designed most of the TMR380 package)


Oh...he also says KN filters are a crock in the 380's.......:happy:

Many members have proven that on their 74's too. I use a standard air filter in mine. Not worth the extra IMO

;1322902']Many members have proven that on their 74's too. I use a standard air filter in mine. Not worth the extra IMO

i like it cause you can wash it out, when its dirty

i like it cause you can wash it out, when its dirty

I just pay $10 and get a new one.

;1322910']I just pay $10 and get a new one.

there not that cheap out there where i live, my k &n is in the other halfs sports and ive got a k & n pod on mine

People can make up their own mind, no problem.

For me I've dynoed my car at one stage 15 runs to see what effect different intake mods, including the K&N had. There wasn't much in it but there was a small difference. But more than that the throttle response was definitely improved. Not after a week when the ECU adjusted - immediately. Take it out , put the stock filter in - back to soggy throttle. But this was with the 90mm intake ONLY.
Foozrcool and Blue380 experienced the exact same thing.

It pains me to see people going over the same old ground regarding the intake and exhaust.

My car has been dynoed on four different dynoes at four different establishments in Brisbane - Gold Coast. Bob Romano's, Sport's tuner (can't remember name ATM), Chip Torque HQ and CNJ.

This was during 2007/08 when no-one on here knew what mods were worth doing. What I proved ON THE DYNO was -

90mm - gain
straight through exhaust + delete third cat - gain
K&N - gain (although small)
piggyback - gain

That's it. If you think some other combinations work - post up here with your evidence.

But that is what I proved to myself with my car - usually verified by others.

And BTW - my car is one of the rare 380s that actually have been to a track. What did it prove? That I'm shithouse at standing starts! But at least I'm prepared to put my money where my mouth is.

:clap: Well said & I agree whole heartedly

....... especially the bit about being a shithouse driver :P

I'm running a different setup now (obviously) but I experienced the same gains Richard is referring too when I was N/A.

there not that cheap out there where i live, my k &n is in the other halfs sports and ive got a k & n pod on mine

Paper filter = $35
K&N = $110? + oiling kit = $150?

It's going to take you well over 3-5 years to start making your money back.

Paper filter = $35
K&N = $110? + oiling kit = $150?

It's going to take you well over 3-5 years to start making your money back.

Different model I know but I got 2 filters delivered to my door for $30 off fleabay, gotta keep your eye out.

I mean even if it does offer a small gain, for what it's worth to do, I'd recommend a bigger intake and exhaust (as discussed) before a K&N filter change.

Yep, sometimes we seem to lose track that it's not just about max killerwasps, it's also about improving throttle response and low to mid-range torque. Because that's where we spend most of the time, between 1,500 and 3,000 rpm, and hitting the rev limiter is rare (and usually pointless). Just because a mod doesn't increase max power doesn't mean it's a waste of time, it could very well improve throttle response.

Paper filter = $35
K&N = $110? + oiling kit = $150?

It's going to take you well over 3-5 years to start making your money back.


Don't forget about the interest on the money spent...

Interest at 6% on $150= $9 a year

=one free paper filter every 4 years...:woot:

People can make up their own mind, no problem.

For me I've dynoed my car at one stage 15 runs to see what effect different intake mods, including the K&N had. There wasn't much in it but there was a small difference. But more than that the throttle response was definitely improved. Not after a week when the ECU adjusted - immediately. Take it out , put the stock filter in - back to soggy throttle. But this was with the 90mm intake ONLY.
Foozrcool and Blue380 experienced the exact same thing.

It pains me to see people going over the same old ground regarding the intake and exhaust.

My car has been dynoed on four different dynoes at four different establishments in Brisbane - Gold Coast. Bob Romano's, Sport's tuner (can't remember name ATM), Chip Torque HQ and CNJ.

This was during 2007/08 when no-one on here knew what mods were worth doing. What I proved ON THE DYNO was -

90mm - gain
straight through exhaust + delete third cat - gain
K&N - gain (although small)
piggyback - gain

That's it. If you think some other combinations work - post up here with your evidence.

But that is what I proved to myself with my car - usually verified by others.

And BTW - my car is one of the rare 380s that actually have been to a track. What did it prove? That I'm shithouse at standing starts! But at least I'm prepared to put my money where my mouth is.
Well said Rich!!! Like you said, everyone is entitled to make up their own mind or have an opinion but I am finding the z80a obnoxious, sarcastic and arrogant approach very tiresome.

Well said Rich!!! Like you said, everyone is entitled to make up their own mind or have an opinion but I am finding the z80a obnoxious, sarcastic and arrogant approach very tiresome.

So anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is obnoxious,arrogant and tiresome....

As I recall ,you imported a pile of them....then you got real upset at anyone who criticized KN filters.

As I recall it was cheaper at Repco than what you were selling them for.

So anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion is obnoxious,arrogant and tiresome....

As I recall ,you imported a pile of them....then you got real upset at anyone who criticized KN filters.

As I recall it was cheaper at Repco than what you were selling them for.

Wrong again mate!!! I have no idea who imports K & N's but it certainly isnt or ever has been me, you might want to check your facts next time before you make false statements. So you can continue with your repetitive criticism of K & N's all you like, I couldnt give a rats.

Everyone has different views and I enjoy forums such as these to hear others opinions whether or not I agree with them . Your arrogance comes from your desire to lace your replies with sarcasm if someone dares to differ from your view. Having said that, I enjoy reading about your development work with the 380 motor as it is informative and interesting.

Did a back to back stock/90mm duct dyno on saturday.

Difference was a whole 2-2.5kw.

wow

Did a back to back stock/90mm duct dyno on saturday.

Difference was a whole 2-2.5kw.

wow

Doesnt surprise me at all. I noticed more of a gain with a straight through muffler.

Again it's not just about max killerwasps. Just about everyone who has bunged on the 90mm snorkel has commented about the improved throttle response.

That was about what I was expecting to be perfectly honest.

Improved throttle response is purely down to flow - same as increases in peak power.

It does bugger all for power, and the same will be true of throttle response - you will not achieve big gains in throttle response by only changing inlet resistance without corresponding gains in peak power. (though by banging up spark timing, throttle pump tuning etc yes)

hi guys, i am new in 380 game so sorry if i am asking something that is already well documented (somewhere else on this cool website). what is the on wheel power out put of standard stock 380 sx? and what it is after Galant intake, Kn filter in? is the stock SX muffler same as for basic model just the chrome tip? with the Berklee straight thru muffler - does this void the new car warranty? thanks for every thoughts and responses

hi guys, i am new in 380 game so sorry if i am asking something that is already well documented (somewhere else on this cool website). what is the on wheel power out put of standard stock 380 sx? and what it is after Galant intake, Kn filter in? is the stock SX muffler same as for basic model just the chrome tip? with the Berklee straight thru muffler - does this void the new car warranty? thanks for every thoughts and responses

A stock 380 auto will put out around 125kw atw. A 380 with the berklee muffler and 90mm galant intake you are looking around 135kw atw. The 380 has the same muffler across the range, only the tips change. The berklee muffler will not void the whole car warranty, it will only void the warranty for the part you have replaced.

Dyno charts can be found here.

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52148

Thanks Braedz - I was looking at kings prings low - as according to your pics - this looks very nice still very stylish and I think with lots of driving improvements. did you upgrade the rear sway bar as well?

just a quick one - do you know Bosch Aero Twin wipers - does this improves performance etc.? thx

just a quick one - do you know Bosch Aero Twin wipers - does this improves performance etc.? thx

They're windscreen wiper blades mate, they can't improve performance!

But they are (or were) just about the best wiper blades going.

Super Cheap Auto stocked them up until a few months ago then discontinued them.

They replaced them with the Tridon FlexiBlade, by all reports just as good but not cheap (around $34 per blade).

The Goodyear Assurance wiper blade is maybe as good, see this thread: Goodyear Assurance wiper blades at Costco (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83709&highlight=costco)

just a quick one - do you know Bosch Aero Twin wipers - does this improves performance etc.? thx

I installed 10 of them at once on my magna, I leave VE SS 6L's for dead now. The performance increase is astonishing.

well - i am happy i made you laugh guys - i am really not that good in mods - i thought its something... what was i thinking anyway ;-)