GDay all!

I was reading a guide about how much better it is for car speakers to be placed in the kickpanel (the panel near the footweld) instead of the traditional in the door placement. Now I was thinking maybe I spent a few dollars designing and making kickpanel speakers. Has anyone here on AMC tried such thing?

I was looking the footweld on the drivers side, and it'd definetely be a challenge to do. There seems to be little space to house a speaker. I was possibly considering bending the accelerator pedal bar and shift the pads over a little bit.

What do we think, is it worth the effort? If so, how would be the best way to go about do you guys reakon? I've found a few guides on how to make a reisin for subwoofer boxes so I figured I'd make the kickpanel speaker moulds using the same process.

I wonder how much of a difference there kickpanel speakers would make.

Let me know your thoughts on how it could work (if it can)?

Thanks all!

Not worth it IMO.

The speakers that are generally put in the kickpanels are tweeters, or midrange speakers.

I've tried around 6 different speaker position arrangements with tweeters. Right now they sit in my A pillar, and thats the best spot in a Magna. Still fiddling with their exact position as im running into some slight issues regarding frequency response from left/right tweeter at different angles - but thats nothing major.

3 Way setups (look for posts by an old member s_tim_ultimate) the 3" midrange drivers are generally placed in the footwell.

The issue with putting something like a 6.5" in there is space/prep work

Not big noting myself, but I've spent close to $500 just on door preparation, and your doors work rather well as enclosures for mid's, once sealed and deadened properly (I run 5 layers dynamat Xtreme on outter skin, 2 layers on inner skin, service holes sealed off with MDF/dynamat, later of dynamat Dynaliner over that, layer of Dynamat Xtreme on plastic door trim).

Once all that was done - the mids are beyond brilliant, even a tad peaky (tuning comes soon).

Tweeters help bring the sound stage up to just around top of the wheel, which is not bad....seperation only becomes an issue with very low vocals, where the track has not much more than just the vocals.

If the track has a low voice (say 500Hz) but has other instruments that cross over into tweeter territory (2.8-3kHz) then the tweeters bring the whole stage up.

Oh - this is a 2 way passive set up. If you go full active 2way, you would have better control over time alignment, which would minimise the seperation issue even further, to the point where its only noticable to you and an SQ judge.

Issue # 3 for mounting mids (6.5") in the kicks - once the mids come on song properly, mids can resonate and rattle things a lot more than what a sub will.....and there's a fair bit of plastic around those area's - it would be a nightmare to keep quiet.

Sounds like a very expensive way of sealing doors... God help you if a window reg ever dies man.

Sounds like a very expensive way of sealing doors... God help you if a window reg ever dies man.

Not particulary fussed about that - if I could weld I would have welded over those panels. But alas, I cant weld yet.

Thanks for the post mate!

I am planning to run a component split system, to get the best sound. So I was planning to place the mid-range drivers in the kickpanel and make some custom made tweeter moulds, facing towards the passengers,and place them in the current tweeter dash holes. They should work just as well as the A-frame and probably cheaper and save me time trying to track down those a-frame covers.

The reason I wanted to place the speakers in the kickpanel so I could possibly avoid having to fork 100's of dollars for that dynamat stuff. Its very expensive and it doesn't seem much more impressive than some foam with aluminum foil on it. Is it worth all that money? How much difference does it make?

The biggest issue with the kickpanel idea is the limiations of the driver side footwell, I can't see how it would fit unless I attached the speakers to the panel under the steering wheel. Would it have the desired effect there? I like the idea of making something so unique, and I'm wondering if anyone else has attempted it.

The problem with the factory mid range position in the dash (IIRC it was a 3-4" mid inside, Verada's had them). Is that its pointing straight at the windscreen.

Problem with that and SQ is reflections, not very wanted - you can get a nasty 'echo' from your tweeters. If you dont want to chop up your A pillars, next best thing is to ask Mitsi for a pair of sail mounts (there's another term for them, but search for sail mounts in Car audio). Factory tweeter placement in the corner of the door/a pillar. Around $15-20 each.

To do the fibreglass work, you're looking at say $150 of materials, $50 of tools (unless you have them already), only to find out that a) they wont look good, b) they wont sound as good.

6.5" mids need good enclosures, and Magna doors aparantly are pretty good enclosures. Around the kick panels you'd be lucky to fit 5lt enclosures - doors are somewhere around 30lt? Maybe a bit more.

Dynamat, I did not believe in it either, until I started 3years ago.......now I've used 4.5Bulk packs (162 square feet) 1.5 of those being in the front doors alone. The difference between a car that has been dynamat'd and one that has not is chalk and cheese.

Even 2 sheets of Dynamat Xtreme per door (around half a bulk pack - $110AUD) is enough to make most speakers sound pretty damn good. I just went to the extreme as im chasing the unobtainable - perfect sound.


Thanks for the post mate!

I am planning to run a component split system, to get the best sound. So I was planning to place the mid-range drivers in the kickpanel and make some custom made tweeter moulds, facing towards the passengers,and place them in the current tweeter dash holes. They should work just as well as the A-frame and probably cheaper and save me time trying to track down those a-frame covers.

The reason I wanted to place the speakers in the kickpanel so I could possibly avoid having to fork 100's of dollars for that dynamat stuff. Its very expensive and it doesn't seem much more impressive than some foam with aluminum foil on it. Is it worth all that money? How much difference does it make?

The biggest issue with the kickpanel idea is the limiations of the driver side footwell, I can't see how it would fit unless I attached the speakers to the panel under the steering wheel. Would it have the desired effect there? I like the idea of making something so unique, and I'm wondering if anyone else has attempted it.

The problem with the factory mid range position in the dash (IIRC it was a 3-4" mid inside, Verada's had them). Is that its pointing straight at the windscreen.


I had a look at that when I began to think about upgrading the sound system, so thats why I was planning to make custom moulded tweeter pods that would be positioned facing the passengers and drivers (i.e. 90 degrees to the dash). How do you think that would work? Cheaper and better than the A-pillar positoon?



To do the fibreglass work, you're looking at say $150 of materials, $50 of tools (unless you have them already), only to find out that a) they wont look good, b) they wont sound as good.


Are the material really that expensive?! Holy smokes! At that kind of pricing it'd be better to buy dynamat anyway. (if it works). I can see that it may not be the best idea I suppose. Although I was really looking forward to the challenge! Would've been fun, but probably worth it if its going to cost me $200 for speaker moulds that just going to annoy me and the passengers anyway.



Even 2 sheets of Dynamat Xtreme per door (around half a bulk pack - $110AUD) is enough to make most speakers sound pretty damn good. I just went to the extreme as im chasing the unobtainable - perfect sound.


I was hoping to get some nice sound, something more upper mid range quality products but not show pony sort of gear (I think neighbours would like to sleep at night :P) . Wouldn't want to spend more than 700 on interior speakers (I've got to buy a sub+amp as well).

Where'd you get dynamat for $110?! I went to Autobarn and they had some other brand for $200 and the salesman said that dynamatt is the same price.

I had a look at that when I began to think about upgrading the sound system, so thats why I was planning to make custom moulded tweeter pods that would be positioned facing the passengers and drivers (i.e. 90 degrees to the dash). How do you think that would work? Cheaper and better than the A-pillar positoon?

That depends on the tweeters, search around these forums and you'll see me call Boston tweeters (and focals) a tad 'harsh' meaning they are too bright (for my liking) these dont do too well at being very close to your ear, or pointed directly at it.

Delta pods / sail mounts point the tweeter at roughly a 30 degree angle (give or take). This means the drivers pod fires at the passengers right ear. The passenger pod fires at the drivers left ear. This is about as good as it gets, without attacking the A pillars.

A pillars give you a wider, deeper sound stage than delta pods. But alas, that requires a lot of fiddling sometimes.



Are the material really that expensive?! Holy smokes! At that kind of pricing it'd be better to buy dynamat anyway. (if it works). I can see that it may not be the best idea I suppose. Although I was really looking forward to the challenge! Would've been fun, but probably worth it if its going to cost me $200 for speaker moulds that just going to annoy me and the passengers anyway.

About $50 for a basic kit from bunnings. Multiply that by 2 if you've never done fibreglass work before. Add MDF to that, glue perhaps, fabric to cover this in, face mask (about $40 for one with fibreglass resin/dust filters) etc etc it all adds up fast.


I was hoping to get some nice sound, something more upper mid range quality products but not show pony sort of gear (I think neighbours would like to sleep at night :P) . Wouldn't want to spend more than 700 on interior speakers (I've got to buy a sub+amp as well).

I have now a general rule, whatever your speakers are worth, you spend atleast 1/4 of their value on sound deadening and door prep (like MDF baffles, covering service holes etc).

Have a look around these forums, anyone who's spent a fair bit of coin on speakers has spent the time/money on sound deadening/MDF baffle's/covering service holes.

MDF Baffles and covering service holes improve your midbass and mid range incredibly.

Dynamat Xtreme is the difference between music and noise IMO. I'd spend ~ $500 on speakers in your case (front only, forget the rears) and get a bulk pack of dynamat ($220 delivered from www.fhrxstudios.com.au). Spend the $40 on MDF for your baffle's and service holes.


Where'd you get dynamat for $110?! I went to Autobarn and they had some other brand for $200 and the salesman said that dynamatt is the same price.

Well a bulk pack is around $220 (delivered from FHRX, cheapest in Australia AFAIK). Half of that is $110, use the other half for your boot.

HI Ers, just so I understand correctly, are you saying that MDF baffles give a better sound than the stock nylon ones, or are they useful simply for sizing/fitting reasons?
Thanks

Peter

HI Ers, just so I understand correctly, are you saying that MDF baffles give a better sound than the stock nylon ones, or are they useful simply for sizing/fitting reasons?
Thanks

Peter

They give a lot better sound.

Think of a sub, now theoretically you CAN mount it to a 3mm piece of plastic (lets say 6mm to compensate for the size difference). The plastic/nylon will vibrate like crazy and well, it will sound like garbage.

Same thing with Midbass/midrange speakers - they depend on a good solid mounting position, in a car door preparation is aound 75%+ of how a speaker sounds. The standard Nylon mounts dont do anything for sound quality, apart from hamper it.

Also forgot to add - Dyna Xorb pads or Focal tiles behind the speaker aswell to help diffuse the soundwave and stop it coming back onto the speaker and messing with the sound.

6.5" speakers can put out a LOT of energy, even 50wrms speakers. Even with all the work I've put into my doors, you can still feel (but not hear) the vibrations of the plastic trim, there's a lot of energy there.

OK, you talked me into it, I'm off to Mitre 10 tomorrow to buy some MDF.

Peter

Something interesting to try... when you do get the component set ( hopefully amped ) just quickly mount one mid to the stardard door on plastic baffle and the other on at least a MDF baffle and deadening if you purchase that as well.

All I will say is that I had a motor replaced once in a VW Bora and the deadening was not supposed to be touched. To get to the point they replaced the whole thin metal sheet ( bora doors are sealed from factory ) so I had no deadening on the inner skin. Even being the driver side mid, something didn't sound right, actually seemed to distort without the deadening - via resonating panels. Deadened the door again and what a difference. I was sold from that day.

Nothing wrong with woofer in door, tweeters in kicks... the stage is just a little low without DSP.

Boston having harsh tweeters Ers... first I have heard of that :P

re: distortion.

When I added an extra 3 layers of dynamt to the outer skin, plus the couple more layers on the door in general - the Polks were happy to extend down to 63Hz, and play about 2dB louder than before......who would have thought a bit of adhesive Butyl could do that for speakers? :)

Yes Bostons and Focals :P bloody things!

Hi Ers,

I would be very interested to hear your opinion about installing tweeters flush in the doors a few inches above the stock 6.5" grilles. These tweeters need about 19mm depth and I can easily cut that out of the existing baffles (altho' I bought some MDF today, but I could cut it out of that as well). Also the JL (my brand of speakers) recommends this placement of speakers.

Thanks

Peter

Hi Ers,

I would be very interested to hear your opinion about installing tweeters flush in the doors a few inches above the stock 6.5" grilles. These tweeters need about 19mm depth and I can easily cut that out of the existing baffles (altho' I bought some MDF today, but I could cut it out of that as well). Also the JL (my brand of speakers) recommends this placement of speakers.

Thanks

Peter

Hey mate,

I cant say for certain....one of he hardest part of car audio is speaker mounting locations, and picking them.

Harsh tweeters (or bright.....ahem Bostons :P) seem to work well mounted in kick panels (as this takes some of the harshness away). Other tweeters like my Polks like to be in the A pillar, as they are not so harsh.

So in short - get yourself 2m of wire (20-22AWG should be fine for tweeters). Get yourself some double sided sticky tape.

Then, mount them above the speaker. Go for a short drive - have a listen, to probably 5 different tracks at around 3minutes each (try dance, heavy metal, rnb, rock and your fav track).

Then remount them down in the kicks, have a break watch some telly, then go for another short drive.

Its the only real way to mount tweeters, trial and error before you cut!

Hi Ers,

You're absolutely right, much better than "cut now, regret later". Thanks

Peter

Hi Ers,

You're absolutely right, much better than "cut now, regret later". Thanks

Peter

Yes its much easier that way.......

Specially when you need to replace who door trims with dynamat on them :tired: So not cool.....

What Ers said, but use blu tak :D

Don't be afraid to use the 45deg angle mount if your set include those as well...