Has anyone had any issues like gearbox or drivetrain problems with this series magna(TJ-TL)?
Thanks lads!

thinkin of AWD for next magna?
i like the AWD part of it, but the extra weight makes it less desirable (and no manual option)
i havnt heard of many issues with them, i think the FWD drivetrains are less reliable
have u looked at ralliarts perhaps?

AWD drivetrains are rock solid from what I hear, they are using evo running gear.

How about this jesse :)

VRX Verada (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200373904192&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT)

the main problem is that its missing the pedal to the left of the brake.

the main problem is that its missing the pedal to the left of the brake.

Pfft, no one is buying an AWD for "sporting" anyway unless they intend to supercharge it or do a motor swap.

Pfft, no one is buying an AWD for "sporting" anyway unless they intend to supercharge it or do a motor swap.

i know a few people who want to use them for performance, its not out of the question, just gotta think out of the square.

i know a few people who want to use them for performance, its not out of the question, just gotta think out of the square.

Sure, buy an AWD and do a legnum gearbox+engine swap?

i know a few people who want to use them for performance, its not out of the question, just gotta think out of the square.

I suppose what I should have said was more along the lines of "you don't get as many HP's"

Next car will be an AWD though.

AWD + 3.8l FTW

From what I hear the diffs and so fourth can handle more power than is available stock at the fly, so you shouldn't have a problem with any of it. Given most of it is out of Evo's, you can be pretty confident it'll be reliable for you.

Looking at AWD Magna's or Rada's?

Lookin at the AWD magna cause i still love my magna's plus would be good to do things performance and handling wise which is all i need out of a quality car :)

No box or d'train issues at all. Like any auto an external cooler is healthy. If you do kill it you can put in the short ratio Evo 5spd manual. The handling is quite good, like all awd it's takes whichever characteristics of fwd and rwd and throws them together in an odd way - esp when giving it some boot. If you've never had an awd before be it subaru or audi etc, you'll immediately appreciate the shore-footedness and very stable feel on road. The weight sadly is apparent too - until boost comes on :shifty: If you've driven a lot of late models falcons and commos then you wont even notice the weight. I've owned both fwd and awd magnas and I'd take the AWD again every time - even over Ralliarts.

No box or d'train issues at all. Like any auto an external cooler is healthy. If you do kill it you can put in the short ratio Evo 5spd manual. The handling is quite good, like all awd it's takes whichever characteristics of fwd and rwd and throws them together in an odd way - esp when giving it some boot. If you've never had an awd before be it subaru or audi etc, you'll immediately appreciate the shore-footedness and very stable feel on road. The weight sadly is apparent too - until boost comes on :shifty: If you've driven a lot of late models falcons and commos then you wont even notice the weight. I've owned both fwd and awd magnas and I'd take the AWD again every time - even over Ralliarts.

Oddly enough, the weight of a TJ AWD is almost exactly the same as a KL Verada - about 1605 kg. Hardly anyone seems to complain about extra weight in Veradas, only when it comes to AWDs! It still compares very favorably with Commodores or Falcons.

Entirely agree about the stable feel on the road - there's no need for electronic traction control, etc.

The transmission is normally great, especially from a standing start, but I've noticed a few times some strange behaviour if a short burst of acceleration is immediately followed by backing off. It's as if the transmission gets "caught out" and doesn't know what gear to select. The drive-line seems bullet proof.

On AWD's weight is generally a blame for the power loss and fuel eco, but in reality it is the drivetrain...

Oddly enough, the weight of a TJ AWD is almost exactly the same as a KL Verada - about 1605 kg. Hardly anyone seems to complain about extra weight in Veradas, only when it comes to AWDs! It still compares very favorably with Commodores or Falcons.

Entirely agree about the stable feel on the road - there's no need for electronic traction control, etc.

The transmission is normally great, especially from a standing start, but I've noticed a few times some strange behaviour if a short burst of acceleration is immediately followed by backing off. It's as if the transmission gets "caught out" and doesn't know what gear to select. The drive-line seems bullet proof.

i have never had this issue at all - my car quickly selects the right gear when doing the above, doesnt feel lost.

the AWD magna drivetrain, would have to be pretty tough, its made from evo bits - surely the drivetrain will outlast the engine i think.

my 2c worth :)

i have never had this issue at all - my car quickly selects the right gear when doing the above, doesnt feel lost.

Fair enough. It could just be a problem peculiar to my car. So far, it's just a bit too elusive to be able to demonstrate it to a transmission specialist.

On AWD's weight is generally a blame for the power loss and fuel eco, but in reality it is the drivetrain...

+1. It costs an extra 1 to 1.5 L/100km.

Ive never had any issues with either drive train or gear box.
Alot of power is lost between the fly and the wheels due to the more complicated train but in my oppinoin is made up for in stability and traction.
However, that said my 112 wkw give my firends 134 wkw 380 hell in a straight line... doesnt always win but doesnt go down without a fight.

Technicaly i have never had an issue and if your looking for power the gearbox and diff can handle alot more power before it gives.
AWD is not for everyone but i have never looked back.

There is a lot in store for my car too. Hoping for big numbers.

Fair enough. It could just be a problem peculiar to my car. So far, it's just a bit too elusive to be able to demonstrate it to a transmission specialist.

no in this case, i think its my car thats the unusual one - most other AWD owners i know of complain about that issue.

for the record/issues list, mine likes to hold onto third gear a long time when coasting to a red light - light goes green, put foot on accelerator (not flaw / race it, but a 'normal' amount to move the car more whilst its coasting...) it holds the gear for a bit longer than i would like, then it downshifts to second and we are on our way with haste and pace

EDIT - Razor;
I lost somewhere in the vacinity of 100kw between the flywheel and the road wheels - ended up with only 82stray kw making thier way to the wheels........ must do something about that im sure!
altho, for the loss and the weight, the awd is a good car, if i had the choice AWD or FWD Verada again side by side - same trim etc, i would still pick the AWD every day.
The KW reading/output is just a number at the end of the day, until i knew the actual output at the wheels, i was more than satisfied with the butt-dyno and the smile it gave me every time i drove it.

On a roll on/roll off dyno i got 112 on screen and a 108 average. I think my engine is meant to be 159 at the fly?
At the end of the day it is all numbers and its about the feel, i agree fully.
The grin on my face driving the hills sells me every time.

The confidence (and safety) the AWD traction gives is great, no praying for the traction gods to save your a$$ every time you pull out in front of oncoming traffic in the wet!

Oh and regarding power - the AWD accelerates well from a standing start. I think the ratios are spot on.

no in this case, i think its my car thats the unusual one - most other AWD owners i know of complain about that issue.

OK, so my car's not so odd after all. I'll have to check this out.

Agree completely about the smile factor. My car is stock, but it seems to surge away from a standing start at a rate I simply can't match in my older TJ Exec. It all comes down to traction, traction and traction...

The 'smile factor' I like that description :)

I too have not had a problem, both drivetrain and tranny. I have yet to put mine on a dyno but it will happen soon. Ever since I put a tranny cooler on and got it flushed, the tranny has worked flawlessly.
I have no problems with the extra weight and fuel consumption as I was prepared to pay for it.

I find the fuel consumption of the AWD to be not that bad. It's amazing how being just a little less aggressive on the throttle in start/stop traffic makes a large difference to city figures.

Jesse,
I think we have met a few times on cruises, I have the blue TW AWD VRX. (i'm the guy in his 30's). I can tell you now I have a AWD car I'll never go back. I have done alot of racing in my younger "more financial days" living at home and AWD in the right hands brings smiles to your dial. Yes AWD's are auto, but they are the 5 speed out of the GTA Evo 6/7, strong and once you learn how to use the tippy (as slow as it might be) it is great. Also the AWD gets the bigger brake package (30% bigger pad area for 10% weight gain). There is a lot of potential in the drive train if that is what you are after, but as a package they are suprisingly fun, and it does rain about 25-30% of the year. Test drive one, or on the next cruise I'm more then happy to chat about the difference in AWD's. But let's hope your next car is one you are happy with!! That is the most important thing!!

P.S As long as it has been serviced correctly nothing should be wrong with the transmission or drive train. (Unless it is from the car in my Avatar that won the Australian rally production car championship in 2005)

Pfft, no one is buying an AWD for "sporting" anyway unless they intend to supercharge it or do a motor swap.

Never been in one in the hills?

Ive been a passenger while sliding all over the leather seats and leaving every other model of magna a long way behind including ralliarts. It was mostly ravs fault.

Anyway these things handle awesome in the bends, like riduclously awesome.

anyone know what sort of split they are? and if it can be adjusted?

Anyway these things handle awesome in the bends, like riduclously awesome.
They do have limits as a few members have proven, but they do go ridiculously hard in the corners. I've never ceased to be amazed by how you can take off from a right hander at the traffic lights flat stick and turn bang on the line without any form of under-steer or over-steer...if I did that in my car I'd go completely off the road.

anyone know what sort of split they are? and if it can be adjusted?

On open road there is a rwd bias, that's why mine showed on the dyno. Seem to be pretty even on acceleration. Not sure if can be adjusted like the Skylines.

anyone know what sort of split they are? and if it can be adjusted?

No, they can't be adjusted and I believe the split is 50-50.

Never been in one in the hills?

Ive been a passenger while sliding all over the leather seats and leaving every other model of magna a long way behind including ralliarts. It was mostly ravs fault.

Anyway these things handle awesome in the bends, like riduclously awesome.




I suppose what I should have said was more along the lines of "you don't get as many HP's"

Next car will be an AWD though.

my bad.

No, they can't be adjusted and I believe the split is 50-50.

correct - it cant be adjusted (sometimes unfort - but then that would be something else that could break on you :( )

when mine was dyno'd, at about 150km/hr, most of the power (torque) had shifted to the rear wheels (approx 80% went rearward).
driving at legal limits, if you cruising along at the posted limit 100/110 and go into a tight corner, you can feel the diffs shuffling power back around for the best grip and you just shoot through the corner with poise and grace - often leaving the VL Turbo driver behind/beside you stunned as to why a magna can handle better than his (or her) fulli sik turbo!
that stunned - omg-thats-a-magna-it-cant-do-that-cant-it look always brings a smile to my face and a massive grin in the wet.... :D

Love my AWD. Lacks grunt but soon with a bit of help from cams and heads from Graham it will be all smiles. Even stock it does a good job and will get me most places I need to go (earth roads where I live, so AWD great when it rains). Just lacks power, not so noticable on flat around here but getting into hilly country it seems too heavy for power/torque available.

Cheers,
Alan

Love my AWD. Lacks grunt but soon with a bit of help from cams and heads from Graham it will be all smiles. Even stock it does a good job and will get me most places I need to go (earth roads where I live, so AWD great when it rains). Just lacks power, not so noticable on flat around here but getting into hilly country it seems too heavy for power/torque available.

Cheers,
Alan

agreed, the AWD needed another ~50kw and it would have been an amazing car....

agreed, the AWD needed another ~50kw and it would have been an amazing car....
they also needed to be manual :)

Sounds like the AWD's are a good all round package for me now that i love corners over power.
Anything can be made powerfull with $$$$ spent so wouldnt bother me finding the right AWD TJ.
At the moment,i might get a 3rd gen to scoot around in and save extra cash for a really good AWD in white,black or red so i will have to be patient till that happens.
Insurance payout wasnt that great so i will wait and eye off anything really good when it pops up :facejump:

correct - it cant be adjusted (sometimes unfort - but then that would be something else that could break on you :( )

when mine was dyno'd, at about 150km/hr, most of the power (torque) had shifted to the rear wheels (approx 80% went rearward).
driving at legal limits, if you cruising along at the posted limit 100/110 and go into a tight corner, you can feel the diffs shuffling power back around for the best grip and you just shoot through the corner with poise and grace - often leaving the VL Turbo driver behind/beside you stunned as to why a magna can handle better than his (or her) fulli sik turbo!
that stunned - omg-thats-a-magna-it-cant-do-that-cant-it look always brings a smile to my face and a massive grin in the wet.... :D
the split is 50/50 in normal conditions. as the centre and rear diffs are of the viscous type. torque can be transfered to rhe rear wheels (i believe as much as 90"% say acc in the wet). likewise, torque transfer can happen between the rear wheels (when cornering hard).

the split is 50/50 in normal conditions. as the centre and rear diffs are of the viscous type. torque can be transfered to rhe rear wheels (i believe as much as 90"% say acc in the wet). likewise, torque transfer can happen between the rear wheels (when cornering hard).

I'd like you to explain this please. The reason I ask, is because the AWD Magna borrows the diffs from an EVO 6, yes? EVOs are ALL 50:50 torque split front:rear with the rear AYC diff transferring torque from left to right.

yeah its mechanical 50 / 50 front and back all the time.
doesnt change.

re the above - it doesnt change...

i do beg to differ, and so does the Mainline Dyno i had mine dyno'd on last week too.

coz its essentially an LSD for the centre diff, its able to shuffle power front and rear as required.

i dont have a printout of the run (yet) but when i do, il ask for the torque split readouts too and post it back here in the thread.
but my car, did shuffle drive approx 80% to the rear on the dyno.

the diffs are able to shuffle power front and back appropriately and on the rear axel - left to right as well.
there isnt an LSD for the front axel tho I beleive - i am however happily open to correction for that statement :)

Being Magna / Verada AWD, we didnt get the AYC function either - but i wonder, as its an evo driveline, can it be put on?

Vlad is correct. Only the front diff is open. The viscous centre diff is indeed normally set to deliver 50:50 front / rear torque, but its viscous operation allows more torque to go either way depending on which end is slipping. I've experienced this when slowly reversing up a friend's ridiculously steep driveway - one rear wheel was very slowly slipping (because of the extreme weight transfer to the front), yet the car continued to move because the front wheels took more of the load. Actually, it would be pretty hopeless having an open centre diff because loss of traction at either axle would stop effective drive in the whole drivetrain.

I'm not sure if AWD Magnas have ACD (active centre differential) They operate like so...

The ACD is a bevel-gear type center differential with a front/rear torque distribution of 50:50. The differential is controlled by an electrically controlled hydraulic multi-plate clutch.

In short, the ACD unit hydraulically controls the limited-slip locking state of the center differential which ranges between full locked, full open, and every point in between these two states. It calculates what the optimum locking amount would be using real-time input from the previously mentioned sensors and which ACD mode is selected. The ACD is extremely fast in operation, bettering the performance of the standard VCU and Viscous units.

Again, an AWD Magna might be different. I'd love for someone to explain it to me.

im not sure if this helps at all in understanding the process of it all - but i found it in the TJ AWD Sales brochure a member sent me online.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/doddski_03/AMC%20pics/salesbrochure.jpg

it also states that its able to direct power to wheels that dont have slip by use of the LSD basically.
i just did a print screen on the PDF, and cut away all the extra screen stuff for a clean picture.
centre picture on the bottom row, although small does have a cutaway sort of section of the 'center diff'

Yep, centre diff is a "Viscous Coupling Unit", not a ACD as per Disciples question.

I was sure that I read that initially drive is 100% to the front and adjusts towards 50/50 when needed, which can be just hard acceleration.

Mine has been a tiny bit taily in the wet during my tests - I think as soon as the back breaks traction and steps sideways, power then goes to the front and it pulls out of the slide very quickly.
As there isn't excessive power, it's then able to accelerate normally, just like in the dry.

So I would imagine that as Oggy said, it's probably FWD most of the time then and adjusts power to the rear when it detects slip? VCU is a pretty primitive and slow way of doing things, but effective none the less.

i am pretty sure it is a viscous coupling, i do remember reading that on the web. So basically the front wheels are mainly driven and the rears are brought into action when needed up to a maximum of 50/50

edit: found it here http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/xrt_magna-awd.htm

A VCU might not be the most efficient diff around but it is very reliable.

i am pretty sure it is a viscous coupling, i do remember reading that on the web. So basically the front wheels are mainly driven and the rears are brought into action when needed up to a maximum of 50/50

edit: found it here http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/xrt_magna-awd.htm

Yes the AWD Magna has viscous center diff and viscous rear diff. Normal drive is 50:50 but if rear experiences slip then more torque transfers to the front up to a maximum of about 80% usually (depending on factory plate settings and wear) due to viscous action. Same with the front, if it slips more drive % goes to the back wheels.

Many light 4WD and SUV aren't true all wheel drive. Most are full time FWD (some full time RWD) and only when slip occurs does torque get shuffled to the other end. The Magna is a true full time AWD.

Cheers,
Alan

i am pretty sure it is a viscous coupling, i do remember reading that on the web. So basically the front wheels are mainly driven and the rears are brought into action when needed up to a maximum of 50/50

edit: found it here http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/xrt_magna-awd.htm

The familia had a viscous coupling centre diff, with a normal 40%-60% (rear bias) split.

Could put up to 60% to the fronts if I remember correctly.

Also, that article says it splits for torque 50-50, not only when fronts slip.

As opposed to their review of the Mazda 6 MPS, where they show it's FWD until slip is detected..
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/mazda6-mps-review.htm


In normal driving situations 100 per cent torque hits the front hoops, and torque is diverted to the rear wheels under hard acceleration (such as from standstill) and when the fronts start to slip/spin.



If you do kill it you can put in the short ratio Evo 5spd manual.

Do you know something noone else does Ez Boy?? From all the research I've done and seen, it's not all that simple, and the manual box will not just bolt in, otherwise I'm certain numerous members on here (myself included) would already have done this.

Do you know something noone else does Ez Boy?? From all the research I've done and seen, it's not all that simple, and the manual box will not just bolt in, otherwise I'm certain numerous members on here (myself included) would already have done this.

something to do with the dimensions of the gearbox housing? Would be $$$ to do but not a bad exercise in gaining some more Kw at the wheels

I'm not sure if AWD Magnas have ACD (active centre differential) They operate like so...

The ACD is a bevel-gear type center differential with a front/rear torque distribution of 50:50. The differential is controlled by an electrically controlled hydraulic multi-plate clutch.

In short, the ACD unit hydraulically controls the limited-slip locking state of the center differential which ranges between full locked, full open, and every point in between these two states. It calculates what the optimum locking amount would be using real-time input from the previously mentioned sensors and which ACD mode is selected. The ACD is extremely fast in operation, bettering the performance of the standard VCU and Viscous units.

Again, an AWD Magna might be different. I'd love for someone to explain it to me.

No, it does not have AYC which is electronic and adjustable torque split. The 3rd gen AWDs have mechanical split via torque sensing diffs. Read up on diffs on howstuffworks.com. The torque split front/back only happens when either end slips. Likewise, rear split left/right when one of them slips. God help when all slip

I'm not sure if AWD Magnas have ACD (active centre differential) They operate like so...

The ACD is a bevel-gear type center differential with a front/rear torque distribution of 50:50. The differential is controlled by an electrically controlled hydraulic multi-plate clutch.

In short, the ACD unit hydraulically controls the limited-slip locking state of the center differential which ranges between full locked, full open, and every point in between these two states. It calculates what the optimum locking amount would be using real-time input from the previously mentioned sensors and which ACD mode is selected. The ACD is extremely fast in operation, bettering the performance of the standard VCU and Viscous units.

Again, an AWD Magna might be different. I'd love for someone to explain it to me.

Magna AWD doesn't have active center or rear diff like fitted in some later model EVOs.

Many racers with limited budgets prefer EVOs without active diffs as they tend to be tougher and more reliable. Not meaning the actual gears/bearings but the hydraulic pumps and active plates give trouble, and evacuating air from the system anytime work is done is problematic/unreliable. So they buy models without active diffs or replace them with mechanical/viscous.

Some find they are faster on mechanical/viscous and manage tyre wear better. This is because they adjust them up and know what to expect from the diffs every time they get into a corner, but with active they don't get a good feel for them and are never sure what the diffs are going to do.

Cheers,
Alan

Thanks for all the answers. :)

I've had my KJ AWD over many different types of road surfaces being, gravel, snowed in roads, ice, sand/beach and wet clay(the worse of the lot) and i have never had an issue with traction. I have never had any wheel break out in a spin taking all the torque and leaving the others stranded.
The power always gets distributed to the other wheels with grip. If you tramp it on ice for example, all 4 wheel spin a the same rate at the same times like it has a 4 wheel lock up system.
Is a great AWD system for a fairly simple one.

I've had my KJ AWD over many different types of road surfaces being, gravel, snowed in roads, ice, sand/beach and wet clay(the worse of the lot) and i have never had an issue with traction. I have never had any wheel break out in a spin taking all the torque and leaving the others stranded.
The power always gets distributed to the other wheels with grip. If you tramp it on ice for example, all 4 wheel spin a the same rate at the same times like it has a 4 wheel lock up system.
Is a great AWD system for a fairly simple one.

The simpler it is, the more likely it will be reliable for the long haul. Alan J's comments about EVOs are very interesting - I tend to distrust fancy electronic interferance in what should be basic mechanical engineering functions. The only exception I've found is ABS brakes.

The sheer traction available in the AWDs is a wonderful thing!

Not sure where all these 50/50 split numbers are coming from.
On the dyno on a casual roll mine naturals at 40/60, so does 3 others if seen.
Under load for the KW testing the bias went up to 35/65 and at one point 30/70 and im pretty sure Magnazied had the same numbers that day.

Cant dyno in a corner though. I would be interested to see the split in harsh conditions.

Are those figures front/rear or rear/front?

Are those figures front/rear or rear/front?

Usually Front/Rear mate.

edit* yeah looks the other way around the way he's said it as more power would be going to the fronts not the rear

50/50 is probably the static distribution when there is no slip...

Dynos do wierd things with torque splitting systems I'd imagine...

Here is a good quote for you..


Magna AWD employs a viscous limited-slip rear differential, Evo VI transfer case, open front differential common with Evo VI RS and Evo VII, and a centre differential with viscous coupling from Evo VI. Like most viscous coupled all-wheel drivetrains, Magna AWD delivers a 50/50 front/rear torque split in normal conditions.

In theory, it can transfer a maximum of 100 per cent drive to either end and can never be "beached' if one rear wheel has traction, but in practice the system resists any relative front/rear axle speed differential by heating and locking up.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/3CAF923C25C03BD7CA256C850019EAF6

;1108886']Usually Front/Rear mate.

edit* yeah looks the other way around the way he's said it as more power would be going to the fronts not the rear
It's normaly quoted front then rear.
I'll pull my dyno sheet out when i get home.
I'm acctualy pretty sure my power went to the rear but i cant remember 100%

** Looking at a scan of it of got on my computer at work it looks like it gone to the front but i cant read the figures, i have miss read the sheet. Regardless of where it went its not a locked figure.

Do you know something noone else does Ez Boy?? From all the research I've done and seen, it's not all that simple, and the manual box will not just bolt in, otherwise I'm certain numerous members on here (myself included) would already have done this.

Lots of things ;)

Not 100% sure on the technical install, just spoken to people who drove the MMAL test mules and reading about box durability and reliability on the Evo scene. With enough $ and perserverance anything is possible.