has any1 done this before??
is it practical to do this??

was wondering if there would be any difference....

kev

i havent done it but i assume that it will just make the sound feel more... surrounding? instead of coming from 2 points (front and back) it comes at you from the sides. it may not be worth the trouble and money though. i have been in a few cars with just front and rear speakers and it feels like there are speakers everywhere, surrounding you. just a guess though, im sure someone else can give some better info

yer i wouldnt think it would be worth it. you would be better saving that money for really good top end speakers ;)

This is something which I would like to do. However it's more of a favour for rear seat passengers then those in the front.

In most cases, your primary aim for a decent sound system is to have a 'front stage' feel. In this case, the rear shelf speakers should be used only as a fill.

Although if you have ever sat in the rear seats, you would find there is no real front stage at all, you'd practically hear most of the stuff from your rear shelves, due to sound being dampened by your front seats and occupants.

By adding speakers to your rear door IMO will definitely help produce a front stage effect for your rear passengers.

I've seen this setup in the VT+ Commodores and Toyota Prado's. Although it isn't as effective in the Prado, but I assume its because of the large space in the back and the lacking of any rear fills.

As for the Commodore, its not too bad, however it too is missing the rear fill for the lower model range. Although the Calais, Statesmen and Caprice does have the rear shelf speakers however I have yet to sit in one and listen.

That would be a complete waste of time, effort, & MONEY. After all who gives a Flying F#@k where the sound stage is for the rear passengers? Do you EVA sit in the back? Plus ur gonna screw it up for the front seating stage!

If more noise is what ur after, do it with more POWER, not more (mid range)drivers... the most classic eg. I saw was a guy I know with a VN... he had 2 pairs of 6" in front doors, another 2pairs in the rear doors, 2pairs 6x9 in the rear shelf, & 2 12" Subs, all runnin off the head unit & 2 CHEAP amps. SURE it was LOUD, but it SURE sounded like CRAP!
He thought was the ducks-nuts until, he got into my old Lancer with 6" splits, 6x9s & 2 12"subs powered by 2 amps with nearly twice his power... & mine was Xplod crap!

In short, more power, not more driver locations!

Well if you want more noise, adding more drivers is the way to go. If done correctly, it would sound way better then trying to pump so much out of a single driver, ie. you yourself should realise that by having two 12" subs.

From what you are saying, the reason the guys setup was crap was because he didn't have enough power. The more drivers you have, the more power you need of course, so more amps are required.

I can go more technical and start to talk about using DSP's to control ALL your speakers, which mainly adjusts timing and phase corrections, and with proper power, it will sound not only loud, but there will be a hint (a large one) of quality. I'm talking big bucks here, but the point im trying to make is if you want more noise, add more speakers and amplifiers! Also want the highest quality, add a (or couple) of processor(s).

Anyway this is going way off the topic now....

no not after noise...
more of the 3d kinda feel. (if you know what i mean)..

kev

I will start by saying that I am no car audio guru, nor do I have any fancy car audio in my cars.

In my wife's Vienta, I put a Pioneer base model tape head unit and 6 stack, just after cheaper CD sound, and not having to change discs all the time. The car has standard 5 or 6" front door speakers, and 6x9 shelf speakers (I blew the stock ones, so now has really cheap strathfield 6x9s). The reason I say this is for this "front stage" idea. The pioneer head unit has a FIE (Front Image Enhancer), which basically is a low pass filter for the rear speakers, with a cut off at 100, 150 and 250 Hz. In my opinion, when you turn it on, sending only bass to the rear, the car sounds really empty. When you put it back to full image in the rear also, it sounds so much better, really full sound. I like to be able to hear the music from the rear too. I think that DaJaJa's idea of 3D is much better than the front stage only with rear subs, and a bit of "fill".

I think you may have trouble fitting 6x9s in the rear doors without spacers, and spacers look crap IMO. Fit them to the rear shelf, then some of the treble can bounce off the rear window. Dan's comments about the processor for sound timing is probably good too though.

my option is to not have any, coz i spent $200 on some pioneer 3 ways and when it's reallly loud, those damn thing distorts like no other day, so they are in back just as hole fillers!

not in use and useless!

Well if you want more noise, adding more drivers is the way to go. If done correctly, it would sound way better then trying to pump so much out of a single driver, ie. you yourself should realise that by having two 12" subs.

From what you are saying, the reason the guys setup was crap was because he didn't have enough power. The more drivers you have, the more power you need of course, so more amps are required.

I can go more technical and start to talk about using DSP's to control ALL your speakers, which mainly adjusts timing and phase corrections, and with proper power, it will sound not only loud, but there will be a hint (a large one) of quality. I'm talking big bucks here, but the point im trying to make is if you want more noise, add more speakers and amplifiers! Also want the highest quality, add a (or couple) of processor(s).

Anyway this is going way off the topic now....

U'll notice I said
not more (mid range)drivers... the most classic
Of course having more bass drivers makes it louder... that is what bass is about... MOVING air. Even they though, need to have the same, or similar source point though .

Mid/high range however, is more about the speed the driver moves, & the HU ability to control each driver at that speed, in realation to each other... that is what DSP (Dynamic Sound Postioning or sumfin) is about... if u don't have it, & u start adding point sources with the same origin time, the sound waves will hit your ears at the different times, even though the started at the same time.. even DSP can usually only control 4 points though.

I guess I kinda got a little off the point... talkin about SPL rather then the 3D thing u seem to be. Either way, adding new point sources will stuff with ur sound quality.. even if there wasn't a whole lot there to start with.. :redface:

Well if you want more noise, adding more drivers is the way to go. If done correctly, it would sound way better then trying to pump so much out of a single driver, ie. you yourself should realise that by having two 12" subs.

From what you are saying, the reason the guys setup was crap was because he didn't have enough power. The more drivers you have, the more power you need of course, so more amps are required.

I can go more technical and start to talk about using DSP's to control ALL your speakers, which mainly adjusts timing and phase corrections, and with proper power, it will sound not only loud, but there will be a hint (a large one) of quality. I'm talking big bucks here, but the point im trying to make is if you want more noise, add more speakers and amplifiers! Also want the highest quality, add a (or couple) of processor(s).

Anyway this is going way off the topic now....

U'll notice I said
not more (mid range)drivers... the most classic
Of course having more bass drivers makes it louder... that is what bass is about... MOVING air. Even they though, need to have the same, or similar source point though .

Mid/high range however, is more about the speed the driver moves, & the HU ability to control each driver at that speed, in realation to each other... that is what DSP (Dynamic Sound Postioning or sumfin) is about.
If u don't have it, & u start adding point sources with the same origin time, the sound waves will hit your ears at the different times, even though the started at the same time. DSP can usually only control 4 points though. I'll try draw diagram to show u what I mean bout the waves, but I'm hopeless with paintbrush :confused:

I guess I kinda got a little off the point... I thought u were wantin to get louder rather then the "3D" thing u seem to be. Either way, adding new point sources with out some form of DSP adjustment will stuff with ur sound quality.. even if there wasn't a whole lot there to start with.. :redface:

heres what I mean.. S1 & 2 (speakers) are ur fronts, & so on.
With a normal 4 spkr setup, DSP is easy to use... front & rear only have 2 point sources each.
When u introduce S5 & 6 u get troubles, because the HU is sending the same signal to them as it is to S3 & 4. Because of the different distances to the listening point however, even DSP can't counter for it (unless u found a 6ch HU with DSP), and the same sound will reach the listener, but at different points of it's waveform.

Without a DSP, S1 & 2 may reach u at point 1, S5 & 6 may reach u at point 2 of the wave, while 3 & 4 reach at point 3. U are effectively hearing the same sound twice, ever so slightly apart, resulting in a slightly blurry, echoed kinda sound... not good.

U actually get this in a 4spkr setup too, but nowhere near as pronounced, & able to be over come easily by the DSP effects, & to a lesser extent, fade & balance on a HU without the DSP.

Pretty much, if u had a 6ch HU with full 6ch DSP, u could pull it off, but from what I can make out TM-SE-RED doesn't.. so in the end it would be easier, & sound better to just power up ur existing speakers.

my 2c worth anyways :redface: ... o.k so it was more like $2, but hey.. I was bored & ... hell, I'm goin to bed :doubt: