View Full Version : Bugger Not Now, Car stalled won't start
electricmonk3000
30-08-2009, 07:38 PM
Well ain't that a kick in the teeth!
Turned a corner on the way home tonight and the engine died. It had been working fine seconds before going up hill. Cranks fine, lights, and electrics all working, have spark, nothing obvious is loose or fallen off. Not sure if I have fuel as it was dark and raining. (Have just under half a tank of fuel in her)
A few times a while ago if I had not started the car for a few days it would take ages to fire up. Same thing cranks freely. Does not seem to be "almost firing" it's as if there is no fuel and I'm just cranking the engine.
I suppose I may have answered my own question, but anyone have a list of things to check. The car is still on the side of the road where it will stay at least till tomorrow and I have to try to sleep as I'm starting night shift. Any help and suggestions that will make it a quicker inspection will be highly praised :)
Rory_newton
30-08-2009, 07:39 PM
Im guessing it could be the timing belt!! Lets hope not though, coz otherwise you will have some very unhappy pistons and valves...
cuppas
30-08-2009, 07:56 PM
any warning lights on the dash?
if all the plugs are in, id say its the fuel pump. get someone under the car to punch the shit out of the fuel tank while you crank it. if you can find a way to do this that looks safe, that is
Magna_TR-Driver
30-08-2009, 07:56 PM
Could be fuel pump? Check all your fuses and relays. My fuel pump on my falcon pooped it self when i went around a corner.
1986semagna
30-08-2009, 08:02 PM
Im guessing it could be the timing belt!! Lets hope not though, coz otherwise you will have some very unhappy pistons and valves...
If the timing belt went there world be no spark
electricmonk3000
30-08-2009, 08:07 PM
Shouldn't be the timing belt as it's only a few years old and way under replacement mileage (No noise when it died either)
Should have checked the dash lights doh!. I love to live life on the edge. It's parked just around a corner. Hoons driving way too fast and not giving way to oncoming traffic while going around my car...Sure, ill beat the crap out of the tank in the morning. Fuses all looked good. So for now I am hoping it's the pump. Car has 320 000 on the clock so parts like that are bound to be near the end of their life. It just has to keep going for a month or two that's all I ask
I thank you all for the quick responses.
electricmonk3000
30-08-2009, 08:09 PM
Just a quickie, I thought that there was enough clearance between the valves and pistons in a 6g72 so that all would be fine if the belt broke.
Madmagna
30-08-2009, 08:43 PM
All these motors are interferance engines, no belt = bent valves
I would start with your fuel pump and ecu relay, located under the glovebox this is a common issue
If yo have spark and compression then the only thing remaining is fuel You claim to have spark so ECU is fine, check for power at your pump and work your way back
electricmonk3000
30-08-2009, 08:51 PM
Thanks, I have printed off the relevant pages from the workshop manual so should be able to come up with something.
cuppas
30-08-2009, 10:15 PM
oh wait
ign on, youd have all the lights on anyways. whoops.
electricmonk3000
31-08-2009, 10:20 AM
This is just silly! Took a look at the car in daylight with the wife helping. Put power to the fuel pump test socket. Fuel pump works. Get in car, car starts fine. Drove her the few km's home and stood looking at it scratching my head. I am thinking along the lines that the fuel filter may be partially blocked/Fuel pump has intermittent fault. The car has almost stalled at the lights a few times and when just started and revved a little will almost stall when the revs come back down. I also remember thinking a few times since I have had the car that the exhaust smells funny. Not rich but something else.
On the other hand a thought crept into my head that the ICS motor has been playing up quite a bit but I can't come up with a reason why it would cause the above problem.
it wouldnt hurt to unplug the idle controller and get some contact cleaner around the contacts. When it died, did you allow the engine to dip into idle? Perhaps that is playing havoc but cant see the idle controller stopping an engine from firing.
electricmonk3000
31-08-2009, 10:53 AM
The ICS had been cleaned a couple of months ago when I took it out of the wreckers (My old one had a crack inside) The car was decelerating after coming out of the corner and I think I had just put my foot lightly on the accelerator pedal to increase speed when it died. I did pull and check most of the electrics under the hood when it first happened. Just had word that my shift for tonight is covered so I can at least check things out, and I can drive the wife's crappydoor tomorrow night so the urgency is off a little, but still need it running for Thursday Friday to get the kids to School and Kindy
OK so I have started the car 17 times today and it fires up every time. While I was trying to work things out I replaced the air filter, spark plugs and power steering pump as well as cleaned the motor.
lathiat
31-08-2009, 05:36 PM
Let me know how you go I had an issue with my 2nd gen a few weeks ago.. basically it'd start when cold but had a hard time when warm and eventually it stopped starting at all when warm and then ran like crap when cold.
First we replaced fuel filter, then turned out the fuel regulator wasn't working so it overfueled. then that still didn't help. Eventually sent it off to some EFI guys and they fault a fault in the wiring loom under the dash that apparently theyd never seen on a 2nd gen magna before - unfortunately i never got the actual details of what it was - but it was making it stall after idling for 15 minutes and all sorts of interesting things.
my spark, fuel, etc - where all fine.
[TUFFTR]
31-08-2009, 06:02 PM
I'd like to know what this fault was with the wiring loom under the dash?!?!
electricmonk3000
11-09-2009, 10:04 PM
That fault might be making sense. Three or four times now the car has almost stalled while driving. To the point that the check engine light comes on. On all occasions I could here what sounded like a relay click behind the dash, either on the passenger side or near the centre. My question is: Does anyone know exactly where the fuel pump relay is on a 92 verada. The workshop manual says behind the glove box but I have nothing there
Madmagna
13-09-2009, 10:14 AM
under the glove box there is an anodised box that contains your relays.
electricmonk3000
13-09-2009, 10:26 AM
lol found it last night. I had the computer up there replaced about ten years ago and looks like they shifted it. Have it hanging down and I think it's the thing making the click when the car dies. However the Computer says NO. Tested the diagnostic codes with a LED light and nothing but short pulses. Taken the Throttle body off to clean, found the ICS O ring misshapen. Not the problem but still needs replacing. The pipes for the water jacket are pretty corroded so will have to find a replacement soon. The front three injectors OHM rating is within spec. Still thinking the fuel filter but if that was blocked shouldn't I get a diagnostic error from the regulator as it would cause low pressure. Stupid car. I also pulled out the alarm system last night. It had not been working for a few years now. Gave a big sigh of relief when she started up after that. Stupid electronics hate hate hate. At least problems were so very easy to fix on my old cars. AND the parts were available cheap and on the shelf. I really miss Rocca Brothers. Super Cheap just does not cut it.
electricmonk3000
14-09-2009, 06:44 PM
Ok another update, Replaced fuel filter, TPS, ICS and Fuel pump regulator. Car goes real well now, much more power and smoothness of drive.....right untill the fuel relay starts clicking, the engine light comes on and the car stalls. Wait around for about ten minutes, car starts and runs for the rest of the trip home. If it was the fuel pump or regulator wouldn't the computer get an error code? I really need help and suggestions here as I am running out of options I can do myself.
[TUFFTR]
14-09-2009, 07:48 PM
Have you replaced the Relay? Or looked inside it? Could be dropping out? Its a cheap thing to replace anyway
electricmonk3000
14-09-2009, 07:51 PM
oops thought I put that in. used another second hand one I took from the wreckers
[TUFFTR]
14-09-2009, 08:02 PM
If its dropping out it could be loosing an earth, supply or trigger.
Just throwing this out there, But might be a good idea to check your ground point connections, if one is loose (assuming its not earthed through the ECU which I dont think it is) that might cause it to drop in and out suddenly...
Other then that I'm not sure mate, I'd say PM Madmagna and see what advice he can offer
electricmonk3000
14-09-2009, 08:12 PM
Thanks mate, hadn't thought of the earth scenario. Failing that I will try pm'ing Madmagna
electricmonk3000
16-09-2009, 08:09 AM
One other thing I noticed, If I am accelerating or say over 60kph even though it stalls it will come good again after a few seconds. It only seems to stall and die when decelerating or stopped. (Or in one case sitting fro four days and wouldn't fire up)
Madmagna
17-09-2009, 07:10 PM
This can be a really hard issue to track, had one a few years ago, similar and turned out to be a broken wire resulting from an accident a few years before, when he turned the harness moved with the body and stoped the car dead
Get your fault codes checked, after that if all clear look for a lose connection
electricmonk3000
19-09-2009, 09:56 AM
OK now I am worried. I had checked the fault codes last week and it had the correct pulses to show everything was OK. decided what the hell I will work on the car this morning. It won't start. Turns over fine just won't fire up. It has been sitting unmoved for three days. I go to double check the codes and see if anything has come up as Madmagna suggested. The lights on my LED test light are on when the key is in the off position. Turn the key on to acc and then the running position. Light stays on constantly. No blinking at all. Could it be the computer after all?
MadMax
19-09-2009, 06:56 PM
No error code blinks sounds like a dead computer to me. Have you checked for injector pulses when the motor is cranked? (test light in one of the injector plugs)
Try removing the computer - check for obvious things like unplugged connectors, loose earth connections, broken/burnt wires etc - and open it up. You may have bulging/leaking capacitors which can be replaced cheaply. If not try a computer from the wreckers.
If you have an immobiliser (factory) this could be the problem too. If you have one it is located at the end of the ignition barrel on the steering column. To test, try to start the car, then leave it with the key in but ignition off, and wait 30 minutes. If it starts then, you KNOW it is the immobiliser. DON'T pull it off/apart until you have searched for info in these forums!
electricmonk3000
19-09-2009, 07:03 PM
LoL, did all that today. Pulled the computer and opened her up. No dead capacitors but there were three spots where it was burned. Went to the wreckers and found a computer in a 95 Verada (Mines a 92). Part numbers don't match up but the computer appears fine inside and just got back from an hour test drive. All went well so far. Car is actually running better than it ever has. Guess time will tell if that was it or not.
MadMax
19-09-2009, 07:09 PM
If it's running now you have fixed it! Is it possible for you to post a picture of the burnt bits on the defunct computer??
electricmonk3000
19-09-2009, 07:22 PM
I was going to do that in the morning. I am really interested in trying to find out what the areas or numbers on the computer correspond to. As for "it's fixed" I will wait and see if it dies on the way to/from work over the week. I thought I had it fixed before
electricmonk3000
20-09-2009, 01:23 PM
Sorry, cold has ended up breaking free and been feeling like crap all day. I circled the burn out areas and have marked the location on the board
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u133/electricmonk3000/IMG_7040.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u133/electricmonk3000/IMG_7043.jpg
pretzil
20-09-2009, 02:38 PM
Yeah, from what u said, the computer would have been my 1st guess. The exact same thing happened to my TS last christmas, would try to start but just wouldnt kick over... after replacing a couple of parts and the problem persisting, the mechanic took the computer out to prove to me that it looked fine then put it back in and it has worked since (touch wood), my computer wasnt fried like urs but it seems that it had a loose connection where it plugged in
MadMax
20-09-2009, 07:28 PM
Yep, its cooked. From the size of the capacitors and diode in that section it looks like . . .it used to do something important. lol Without a schematic its anyones guess what that section of the mobo relates to.
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