I know theres a few people who are in the know on these things

What size turbo would be suitable for a 3rd gen (3.5L)? For a single turbo setup

I have a ct26 here from my old car which is really more suited to a 3L engine on low boost. The guy who previously had my new engine is giving me manifolds setup for this but i dont think it would be the best way to do it (would get restrictive up high)

I think that a XR6T turbo would probably be the best ' budget turbo'?

what are the differences on say a T3 and T4 turbo etc. Reading alot about these 'sizings' on the net


cheers

As stated in many many many other threads, the XR6 turbo is far to big for use on a 3lt and borderline (and I mean very borderline) to big for use on the 3.5's. What you really have to look for is the A/R on the rear housing. What you would want would be anywhere from .75 up to .95 at the most for usable power. The XR6 turbochargers use a 1.06 rear housing.

EDIT: also just saying a turbo is a T3 or a T4 means nothing, you need the actual specs on the front and rear housings for any comparison.

EDIT: also just saying a turbo is a T3 or a T4 means nothing, you need the actual specs on the front and rear housings for any comparison.

All ill say is youll have piping coming out your **** for a single turbo on the V6.

T3 or T4 refers to the flange used on the exhaust - turbo connection.

I am of no help in terms of what turbos to use. Maybe have a look at what the 2.8L single turbos are used for the Saabs.

Nah the saab's (in my experience) are all low pressure low cut in turbos e.g. full boost by 2000rpm on the 4cyl motors so would be to small for the 3lt V6's and restrict them up high.

Also in older times T3 and T4 were used for turbo sizing purposes e.g. T3/T4 front housing etc before people knew more about compressor housing sizes and A/R ratios.

Cheers for that boys. Maybe something more suited to say vl turbos / older supra would be better. I'll keep those figures in mind. For a single turbo setup you could run a crossover style setup for less piping. Probably won't be as effective but would be significantly cheaper

You could perhaps look at the specs for the turbo used on the nissan VG30DET. Single turbo V6, from the Nissan Cima.

For a 3L you'd be looking at a GT30 of some sort, probably with a 0.76 or so exhaust housing. It all depends on how you want the turbo to act. If you want less lag with a good bottom end, go with a smaller turbo and smaller exhaust housing, opposite if you want a bit of lag but with good top end. Having said that, there's heaps of hybrid turbos around now combining different compressor wheels with different exhaust housings etc.

If it were my 3L single turbo setup, I'd probably look at something like a GT3046 with a smallish exhaust housing of like 0.63, then get an agressive cam for the top end.

for suitability take a look at the turbos used on the alloytec 2.8 v6 from the vectra and new saabs

Nah the saab's (in my experience) are all low pressure low cut in turbos e.g. full boost by 2000rpm on the 4cyl motors so would be to small for the 3lt V6's and restrict them up high.


As in the 2.8L units for the V6 at work. Theyre physically double the size of the sort you see on the 4cyl turbos.
Exactly what cybermonkey is now saying.

I agree focus on the higher rpms. Lag will be handy for tractions sake.

Dont worry about the flange for now. Thats part of building the exhaust.

or as the case may be, the new Insignia. I believe this uses a twin-scroll turbo now for even more power. But the sizing would be a good place to start

Hmm. Must disagree. My GT Forester was great low and mid, ran out of steam up high but had already won the traffic race by then. STi WRX's and GT liberties are shite - dogged by massive lag, nearly got T-boned when I pulled out in the rex.

The REAL issues are such:

* There is no harm having a compressor that has good low and mid boost. If you spin too much in early gears - start in 2nd or bleed off boost that's a nuisance. Remember you still want to have boost when you're in too high a gear and want to overtake in day to day. A quarter mile run will be 12-13 seconds out of a probable 6hours of driving each week.

* Consider running the turbo off the front or rear bank ONLY. Way too much drama trying to plumb 2x sets of pipes to the charger, a dump pipe out, air in, air out, air to the TB via some sort of intercooling. Laminova cores anyone?

It's your project the end result doesn't need to be a timeslip or a dyno printout - it's what puts a grin on YOUR face everytime you slide the key in. Give me bottom end and mid range any day.

OK some more info. The turbo used on the Vectra VXR/OPC and some Saab's is a 'Mitsubishi TD04-15K'.

This is in fact the same or similar turbo used on the Mitsubishi 3000GT and Eclipse, enforcing the suitability of this turbo on a 3.0 Mitsubishi engine ;)

Nice find! But not too many of them lying around for free thou.

Hmm. Must disagree. My GT Forester was great low and mid, ran out of steam up high but had already won the traffic race by then. STi WRX's and GT liberties are shite - dogged by massive lag, nearly got T-boned when I pulled out in the rex.

The REAL issues are such:

* There is no harm having a compressor that has good low and mid boost. If you spin too much in early gears - start in 2nd or bleed off boost that's a nuisance. Remember you still want to have boost when you're in too high a gear and want to overtake in day to day. A quarter mile run will be 12-13 seconds out of a probable 6hours of driving each week.

* Consider running the turbo off the front or rear bank ONLY. Way too much drama trying to plumb 2x sets of pipes to the charger, a dump pipe out, air in, air out, air to the TB via some sort of intercooling. Laminova cores anyone?

It's your project the end result doesn't need to be a timeslip or a dyno printout - it's what puts a grin on YOUR face everytime you slide the key in. Give me bottom end and mid range any day.

I beg to differ. Plenty of room above the transmission for some manifolds. Actually plenty of room in manuals persay.

If your gonna do it once, do it right, not half assed. Who runs a V6 off one bank....lol...

;1118883'] Who runs a V6 off one bank....lol...

Saab has been known to...

OK some more info. The turbo used on the Vectra VXR/OPC and some Saab's is a 'Mitsubishi TD04-15K'.

This is in fact the same or similar turbo used on the Mitsubishi 3000GT and Eclipse, enforcing the suitability of this turbo on a 3.0 Mitsubishi engine ;)

TD04-15K is quite a small turbo. My Evo runs TD05-16G, and I'm upgrading to TD06-20G without any detriment to lag. TD06-25G may be a good low-mid range turbo for a 3L.

Garrett GT3076 with 0.82 rear housing or Garrett GT3082 with 0.76 rear housing.

Both turbos would give reasonable response, great midrange and top end whack, and are rate anywhere between 450-550hp.

Buick run a single bank turbo too. If you get that inlet compressor spinning - who gives a bollocks how many cylinders work to do it. It was mentioned initially that $$$ was a factor too.

Yes it is indeed a small turbo, the 3000GT runs a twin turbo setup. The Vectra VXR actually uses this as its only turbocharger. It must run out of puff quite quickly on a 2.8! The new Insignia runs a TD05 I was reading. This is a chunkier turbo but might not be suitable for spooling up quickly.

Perhaps sourcing a TD04-18 with the bigger turbine wheel as a medium solution? Should be fairly cost effective and suitable for the 6G72/74

Garrett GT3076 with 0.82 rear housing or Garrett GT3082 with 0.76 rear housing.

Both turbos would give reasonable response, great midrange and top end whack, and are rate anywhere between 450-550hp.

they also command a hefty price tag in good condition

If you really wanted to save money, on a 3L just use the TD04-9b's from a 3000GT and it's entire setup. Only the manifold plates need to be changed. Whole conversion kits can be had for under $1000< AU but yeah just dropping that in.

lol Trav wont do it half assed...

Well, put it this way..

My car came stock with a TD05-16G, I upgraded to a TD06-20G a few months ago, and soon Ill be upgraded to a T67 Turbo, which is known as a TD07-25G. (IE BIG).

With the stock turbo I got full boost at 3300rpm, with the 20G Im getting full boost at 3600rpm and the T67, I expect to see full boost at around 4000rpm with a stroker bottom end.

For a magna, Look towards a GT3082R Twin Scroll. The large compressor cover will help with low boost applications and the twin scroll rear housing + ball bearing centre will assist in spool.

You will need to run twin waste gates though... perhaps twin screamers if your that way inclined?

For a magna, Look towards a GT3082R Twin Scroll. The large compressor cover will help with low boost applications and the twin scroll rear housing + ball bearing centre will assist in spool.

You will need to run twin waste gates though... perhaps twin screamers if your that way inclined?

for a budget Turbo???

^ Ok, sorry. Budget turbo would be an XR6 Turbo or a TD06-20G from an Evo. Even a TD05-16G from an Evo 9. That would make good boost. Or perhaps a turbo from an Evo X. (Good Luck)

Mind you, in modifying there are three variables..

Fast, Cheap and Reliable. Pick only two of them..

ill pick cheap and reliable :P

theres always going to be someone faster than you, i have a figure in my head of what i want to achieve, its around the 180 kw- 200kw mark. Which isnt really excessive power from a 3.5L engine with a snail on it. The guy who had this engine before me made ~175kw at the wheels using a piggyback ecu on it and a ct26 turbo... no exhaust mods, stock fuel pump and injectors, and a factory r33 intercooler. with a bit of a play im sure i could improve on that :)

Well, probebly be selling my Evo Intercooler soon.

Strap an Evo turbo onto it, it should be good. Cheap, The twin scroll will be good for spool, especially with the uneven length runners on the magna, it can push a fair bit of air and have been known to make 220kW @ all fours.

It should be reliable, as you dont have an overly large turbo, etc.

I like your thinking Tonba. Maybe he could pick up a cheap second hand EVO 9 turbo then get a 20G or 25G compressor wheel put on.

keep me in the know tonba, will keep it in mind.

I will look into the 20g and 25g compressor wheels, see the benefits, costs etc


cheers boys

Hmm. Must disagree. My GT Forester was great low and mid, ran out of steam up high but had already won the traffic race by then. STi WRX's and GT liberties are shite - dogged by massive lag, nearly got T-boned when I pulled out in the rex.

The REAL issues are such:

* There is no harm having a compressor that has good low and mid boost. If you spin too much in early gears - start in 2nd or bleed off boost that's a nuisance. Remember you still want to have boost when you're in too high a gear and want to overtake in day to day. A quarter mile run will be 12-13 seconds out of a probable 6hours of driving each week.

* Consider running the turbo off the front or rear bank ONLY. Way too much drama trying to plumb 2x sets of pipes to the charger, a dump pipe out, air in, air out, air to the TB via some sort of intercooling. Laminova cores anyone?

It's your project the end result doesn't need to be a timeslip or a dyno printout - it's what puts a grin on YOUR face everytime you slide the key in. Give me bottom end and mid range any day.

Have to agree with terrible lag issues of WRX GTi and sequential twin turbo Liberty G4 was even worse, don't know about the GT Liberty, its supposed to be better.

Running one turbo off one bank is a good setup and has a lot going for it for a road car. This was also used by Toyota in their very successful 900HP 2.65 ltr V8 CART engines a few years back. In an east west engine arrangement it considerably simplifies the plumbing so there are big flow gains just from eliminating bends and complex pipework. Intercooling is easier and less pipe volume reduces lag. Turbos respond best (spool up faster) to ex pulses spaced farther apart. So 3 cyl into a single small cheap old technology turbo is better than 6 cyl into a large one.

Cheers,
Alan

I like your thinking Tonba. Maybe he could pick up a cheap second hand EVO 9 turbo then get a 20G or 25G compressor wheel put on.

Thanks mate.

The Evo 9 Turbo can only support a 20G wheel. Even then it is not that efficent. You really need to go to a TD06 shaft and turbine to support a 20G, and it is the bare minimum requirement for a 25G wheel.

You could get an evo 9 Turbo and do any of the following modifications;
-TD05-16G (Stock)
-TD05-18G (Larger compressor wheel)
-TD05-20G (Larger comressor wheel again, but this isnt a really good setup as the compressor is too big for the turbine)
-TD06-20G (Large compressor with larger turbine. I think you will find this will be the best setup on the magna)
-TD06-22G (Using the TD06 turbine, but putting a custom 22G compressor wheel on it, Commonly known as the ATP Evo 'Gold' or 22G)
-TD06-25G (IE Evo 'Red)


keep me in the know tonba, will keep it in mind.

I will look into the 20g and 25g compressor wheels, see the benefits, costs etc


cheers boys

I definatly think that an Evo 9 turbo would do the trick. You could hide it away (as its fairly small), and the twin scroll turbine would help with spool and smooth out boost delivery. Just run it off wastegate pressure with a boost controller to smooth things out.

You can pick up a second hand evo 9 turbo for around $800~$1000.

Ill be selling my Modified Evo 9 Turbo (TD06-20G) for $1700 if your interested. It is a VERY good turbo.

I know theres a few people who are in the know on these things

What size turbo would be suitable for a 3rd gen (3.5L)? For a single turbo setup

I have a ct26 here from my old car which is really more suited to a 3L engine on low boost. The guy who previously had my new engine is giving me manifolds setup for this but i dont think it would be the best way to do it (would get restrictive up high)

I think that a XR6T turbo would probably be the best ' budget turbo'?

what are the differences on say a T3 and T4 turbo etc. Reading alot about these 'sizings' on the net


cheers

G'day mate, your right the xr6t turbo would be the best bang for you buck.. you'll start boosting around the 3000 to 3500(depensing on how you set up your exhaust manifold) or if you do a rear mount setup. with 10psi an a auto you'll see about 300hp@ the wheels, there internal waste gatedas well.. which also saves on cash

i hope that helps bro ?

G'day mate, your right the xr6t turbo would be the best bang for you buck.. you'll start boosting around the 3000 to 3500(depensing on how you set up your exhaust manifold) or if you do a rear mount setup. with 10psi an a auto you'll see about 300hp@ the wheels, there internal waste gatedas well.. which also saves on cash

i hope that helps bro ?

Start boosting at 3000-3500rpm? That's horribly laggy. You'd want to be making full boost by 3500rpm at the latest with the magna engine.

Start boosting at 3000-3500rpm? That's horribly laggy. You'd want to be making full boost by 3500rpm at the latest with the magna engine.

agreed, i would ideally like to start boosting at about 2000-2500 rpm, means i wouldnt hit boost most of the time (or hit boost just as a change gears) any lower than that would be un driveable in the wet

agreed, i would ideally like to start boosting at about 2000-2500 rpm, means i wouldnt hit boost most of the time (or hit boost just as a change gears) any lower than that would be un driveable in the wet

Which is exactly where the Evo 9 Turbo would put you, especially if it was a TD06-20G, as they are slightly bigger.

Which is exactly where the Evo 9 Turbo would put you, especially if it was a TD06-20G, as they are slightly bigger.

you would think your going to be selling one by the sounds of things ;)

Will start saving my pennies now mate, hopefully when i have enough your selling

you would think your going to be selling one by the sounds of things ;)

Will start saving my pennies now mate, hopefully when i have enough your selling

He's right tho. The TD05-16G on my Evo MR makes full boost (1.7BAR) by 3200rpm on the stock 2L displacement. TD06-20G is slightly bigger so I'd imagine full boost by 3500-3800rpm. With the stock turbo it starts to spool at around 1800-2000rpm, so the slightly bigger 20G would be good on the 3L motor I reckon.

He's right tho. The TD05-16G on my Evo MR makes full boost (1.7BAR) by 3200rpm on the stock 2L displacement. TD06-20G is slightly bigger so I'd imagine full boost by 3500-3800rpm. With the stock turbo it starts to spool at around 1800-2000rpm, so the slightly bigger 20G would be good on the 3L motor I reckon.

Pretty sure Trav is staying 3.5L which is why the 3L turbos dont cut it for the 3.5L's
I just sold my Garrett GT35/40 for $1000 on ebay, so if your after one, they are pricey. There are a few massive borg warner turbos which would tickle your fancy too trav. I suggest you join up to 3si.org and as them as everyone on there has either a single T or TT 3000GT many with the 3.5L DOHC engine in them

I'm really not getting how this is going to be difficult. The SOHC heads are almost as wide as a DOHC head (not far off) and although these pictures are from a 2nd gen orientated engine bay the same prinicial applys, just swap the engine over to the other side. Its really not rocket science to use both banks....
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/6857rc8.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/6ba350ab2a3.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/a79c8e14217.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/cruise2-1.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/DSC_0299.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/DSC_0267.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/DSCN0431.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/img0414ny2.jpg

I have a hard-on now

I have a hard-on now

Sucks to be FWD. Most of them using single T setups on 3.5L's (AWD 5-6sp's) and pushing over 600HP at all 4's, most do it on standard unleaded too (93)

;1119273']Sucks to be FWD. Most of them using single T setups on 3.5L's (AWD 5-6sp's) and pushing over 600HP at all 4's, most do it on standard unleaded too (93)

Pretty sure 93 American octane is equivalent to our 98 or 100 octane mate.

Edit: Got confused somewhere and thought this turbo was for a 3L. 3.5L would need a GT30 of sorts as I mentioned earlier. 20G or 25G TD06 would be too small for a 3.5L displacement.

;1119273']Sucks to be FWD. Most of them using single T setups on 3.5L's (AWD 5-6sp's) and pushing over 600HP at all 4's, most do it on standard unleaded too (93)

In USA octane numbers are "pump octane". Thats RON + MON/2 (RON = research octane number; MON = Motor Octane Number). Typical premuim 98 in Australia is 98 RON and 88 MON(can go as low as 86 but not likely or as high as 90 but again not likely unless a lot of toluol or xylene has been added to get the RON up to 98), so 93 PON by American reckoning.

Cheers,
Alan

C'mon tuff if you're gonna post pics of turbo setups at least post MAGNA pictures...



http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1848/3ec61.jpg

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/1443/6185277full.jpg

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/5096/turbomagna1.jpg

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7821/turbomag.jpg

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/2009/p5090001.jpg

where did you find all them turbo magna ARS55??

Booya's inlet manifold is awesome hehe

Well, considering he will have DOHC heads, best to show him pictures with DOHC motors. But yeah, gee, doesnt look like much room there to make all 6cyl spin the turbo there..

Start boosting at 3000-3500rpm? That's horribly laggy. You'd want to be making full boost by 3500rpm at the latest with the magna engine.

well and xr6 turbo is for a 4L and they still kick in around 2500rpm as i use to own one.. and on the V6, the exhaust manifold is going to have long runner unless you go twin turbo.. with a gt30 garret it would kick in alot Quicker but remember if he wants a bang for his buck you can't beat the xr6t turbo..
On another idea.. a supercharger set up would be alot cheaper, and be more driveable ? so why not take that opinion?

:wtf:not :S

where did you find all them turbo magna ARS55??

Wow never knew there where so many, :P thats awesome

;1119254']Pretty sure Trav is staying 3.5L which is why the 3L turbos dont cut it for the 3.5L's
I just sold my Garrett GT35/40 for $1000 on ebay, so if your after one, they are pricey. There are a few massive borg warner turbos which would tickle your fancy too trav. I suggest you join up to 3si.org and as them as everyone on there has either a single T or TT 3000GT many with the 3.5L DOHC engine in them

I'm really not getting how this is going to be difficult. The SOHC heads are almost as wide as a DOHC head (not far off) and although these pictures are from a 2nd gen orientated engine bay the same prinicial applys, just swap the engine over to the other side. Its really not rocket science to use both banks....
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/6857rc8.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/6ba350ab2a3.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/a79c8e14217.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/cruise2-1.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/DSC_0299.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/DSC_0267.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/DSCN0431.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/img0414ny2.jpg
they got the right idea, the shorter the exhaust manifold the shorter the time you have to wait for your turbo to kick in.. So these are all 3000gts

well and xr6 turbo is for a 4L and they still kick in around 2500rpm as i use to own one.. and on the V6, the exhaust manifold is going to have long runner unless you go twin turbo.. with a gt30 garret it would kick in alot Quicker but remember if he wants a bang for his buck you can't beat the xr6t turbo..
On another idea.. a supercharger set up would be alot cheaper, and be more driveable ? so why not take that opinion?

:wtf:not :S

I was commenting on what you said. The 4L Falcon motor has bucket loads of low down torque already remember.

I was commenting on what you said. The 4L Falcon motor has bucket loads of low down torque already remember.

Not to mention the 4L DOHC motor that ford uses has a rediculiously long stroke, which causes the turbo to develop boost alot earlyer. Magnas have a shorter stroke, so they will be more 'peaky'.

where did you find all them turbo magna ARS55??


Wow never knew there where so many, :P thats awesome

hahaha Seek and you shall find my friends

From what I can remember this is the list in order

1: Old ebay ad
2: Booya's car (pic from cardomain.com)
3: Autospeed.com article (google search 'mitsubishi magna turbo')
4: Old pic I found trolling AMC from years ago
5: ???????????????????

Another turbo magna for the collection of pics, like the bonnet, not so much the install tho:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo202/timcollings/Turbomagna2.jpg

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo202/timcollings/Turbomagna.jpg

i so want that bonnet!

Few more pics of it:

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo202/timcollings/Turbomagna4.jpg

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo202/timcollings/Turbomagna3.jpg

That turbo looks like it's come off a 1980's Cordia.

lol it looks pretty grubby. I wonder what he has done with the parras? They look different...

needs bonnet NOW!

^ That is a POS turbo. Even my old Evo 8 Turbo was bigger then that... Its pathetic!

that engine bay looks shocking but gimme the bonnet anyday!