I inadvertantly filled up with E10 the other day. I thought oh well we will see how it goes. My economy has gone out the window (for me) and I am over 10l/100km now. Has anyone else found this too or are you all smarter than me and dont pull up to the E10 pump. I would be curious to see if there is enough in the higher octane fuels in the way of economy to make them worthwhile. They are considerably more $$$

I used E10 when I first bought my car (and again briefly when 91 was ~$1.60L) and have always found the economy is worse. There is no power gain nor more k's in the tank. Only gain is when paying for the fill-up.
When I've put E10 in my VS I've found the performance sluggish, like the car is towing a boat or something.

I used E10 when I first bought my car (and again briefly when 91 was ~$1.60L) and have always found the economy is worse. There is no power gain nor more k's in the tank. Only gain is when paying for the fill-up.
When I've put E10 in my VS I've found the performance sluggish, like the car is towing a boat or something.

I am glad you said that. I thought it was a bit of a dog today. Doing the math on it, it is actually more expensive than regular unleaded when you factor in the economy, or rather lack thereof!

yep.... useless fuel. i would walk before putting e10 in the TS...

E10 is false economy you pay less and use heaps more. It produces more greenhouse gas per KM and takes food producing crops off the tables of third world countries.... and now they're talking about E85? I know we need to do something before Peak Oil hits (about 3 years by BP's estimates) and petrol goes over $3 per litre but if we must use an Ethanol Blend at least make it cheaper like 1/2 price not the price structure the tax office has in place which will see price parity within 5 years.

I've been using e10 for a while, I don't find it bad at all. I don't see how the car could be using considerably more on e10?... What brand E10 are people using? Liberty, United, Enffue?... Ethanol in Australia is derived from sugarcane anyway, not from corn like they do in the US due to their farm subsidies.

Like I said in another thread, you can make synthetic petrol from natural gas, just like synthetic oil comes from gas (except making synthetic petrol is very much considerably cheaper than making oil!). This is true to the point where synthetic petrol can be made cheaper than buying and refining oil. It hasn't been favourable in the past due to relatively low oil prices. The government is eyeing off the gas field in Western Australia for a few quick royalty and tax dollars (thats all Australia will get from the $50+ Billion project since its foreign owned), that gas could have been used to supply all of Australia's petroleum needs and even export it, keeping not only the massive amount of money in the country but large export earning through high quality petroleum exports and not requiring to import petroleum products from Asia.

The downside to this any government would face is the following government can take credit for the effect, whereas the current governments can take credit for the nice sounding export dollars on paper.

I should point out synthetic petroleum products could be 100+ octane and be made to the most ideal specs for best performance :)

Gas has only a limited life as well with current use 60 years with conversion to liquid fuel half that.... there is no magic bullet. Ethanol blends have a lot less stored energy than oil based fuels even the high octane versions, bit like LPG the analogy is that while it might explode quicker it also burns up quicker hence the bad fuel consumption figures.

My TF SPORT loved it,i put it down to the fact that the 3.0 is a revvy engine and e10 burns quicker.
My 380 VRX eats it,my wifes 380 VRX loves it burns about 9.4 to 100 cruising at 110 (we live in the country).
We have found SHELL is best in both cars.
I say again THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE FOUND!!!!!!!!!! YOU MAY HAVE FOUND DIFFERENT,FINE,WERE ALL ENTITLED TO OUR OWN OPINION.

98SPORT Humor me and try a full tank of BP Ultimate.

Comparison figures based on the same drive over 10 weeks in my TJ Ralliart, I also live in the country:

BP E10 maximum range 625 km

BP Unleaded 95 range 730 km

BP Ultimate range 810 km

Oh 98SPORT given the fact you haven't put a post up in this thread before you can't "say it again". Using capitals means your shouting at us, I have not seen anyone say anything negative about people having an opinion so I don't see the need to shout but your fuel consumption figures are interesting and better than I have got out of E10 ever even the shell product. We also know that the fuel sold in different states is blended differently depending on the average temperature in that state at that time of year, I guess Qld blend would be more consistent than Victoria due to Victoria's more extreme temperature range.

One thing I did remember about Ethanol is the fact it absorbs water, in fact if you got water in your fuel the old bush trick was to drop 1/2 a litre of Methylated Spirits (Ethanol) in the tank. Maybe with the extra moisture in the air anyway the fuel has already absorbed some which would minimize it's efficiency considerably.


regards

John E.

after a few tanks it will come good, no change whatsoever in my TS.

E10 is the new CAI....

My TF SPORT loved it,i put it down to the fact that the 3.0 is a revvy engine and e10 burns quicker.
My 380 VRX eats it,my wifes 380 VRX loves it burns about 9.4 to 100 cruising at 110 (we live in the country).
We have found SHELL is best in both cars.
I say again THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE FOUND!!!!!!!!!! YOU MAY HAVE FOUND DIFFERENT,FINE,WERE ALL ENTITLED TO OUR OWN OPINION.

That is interesting your figures. I also echo ernysp76 with the capitals. Perhaps you were unaware, but you appear to be unneccesarily defensive. I was after everyones experience and opinion and it is all appreciated and weighed up.
I too use Shell products generally and as you see in my signature my last tank average is 9.3l/100 km on the regular unleaded. This is combo hwy and going to work. I put this thread on because I really watch my consumption and driving carefully and have noticed an immediate difference.
I am going to Sydney for a drive and will see what it is like after that trip, but my instant fuel figures are definitely higher on this tank.

E10 is the new CAI....

Errr :wtf:??

Errr :wtf:??

Surely he has to be referring to the Conodont Alteration Index. :think:

Common noun phrases


Calcium-aluminium-rich inclusion, a type of mineral
Carbonic anhydrase inhibitors in pharmacology
Codon Adaptation Index, a measure of codon bias in protein-coding DNA sequences
Cold air intake of an automobile
Computer Aided Inspection
Computer assisted instruction, another name either for Computer-assisted language learning or for electronic learning
Conodont Alteration Index, an estimate of the maximum temperature reached by a sedimentary rock

Surely he has to be referring to the Conodont Alteration Index. :think:

Common noun phrases


Calcium-aluminium-rich inclusion, a type of mineral
Carbonic anhydrase inhibitors in pharmacology
Codon Adaptation Index, a measure of codon bias in protein-coding DNA sequences
Cold air intake of an automobile
Computer Aided Inspection
Computer assisted instruction, another name either for Computer-assisted language learning or for electronic learning
Conodont Alteration Index, an estimate of the maximum temperature reached by a sedimentary rock
Pure Gold Apat, pure gold lol

On my 93 lancer ran mostly E10 and found that it seemed to have a little bit more power.Figures per 100 ,dont know never really bothered but tank would usually last just over 2 weeks(city driving only), havent tried it in 380 yet but find it interesting that I have a sticker inside fuel door saying you can run on e10,use Shell only in 380 normally get about 2 weeks from tank ,city only driving,average about 12-13/100 changed the way I went to work and with 90mm intake dropped it by 1.5/100 was 13.5-14.

Errr :wtf:??

He may be referring to false performance gains..cai sucks in hot air, E10 promises higher octane and better fuel economy but delivers neither of those two claims. ....then again as apat said it could very well be the Conodont Alteration Index lol. I personally have been using E10 for the last couple of tanks hoping it would do something of some benefit. Its money down the drain..I'll be going back to 98...

98SPORT Humor me and try a full tank of BP Ultimate.

Comparison figures based on the same drive over 10 weeks in my TJ Ralliart, I also live in the country:

BP E10 maximum range 625 km

BP Unleaded 95 range 730 km

BP Ultimate range 810 km



I've never use BP fuel but that sounds a bit dodgy to me! If the economy of e10 is actually worse, and according to those figures worse than the 10 percent of added ethanol (which means it doesn't provide anything to the fuel at all)! I'd seriously suggest all those on here that think it is worse to unite with like minded people on other Australian car forum sites and take it to the ACCC. Admittedly the ACCC is a bit of a joke, but taking it to the media would be beneficial as with taking it to parliament.

The reason why you would seriously want to do this you may ask? because e10 blend is all you'll be able to get in a year or two...

I've never use BP fuel but that sounds a bit dodgy to me! If the economy of e10 is actually worse, and according to those figures worse than the 10 percent of added ethanol (which means it doesn't provide anything to the fuel at all)! I'd seriously suggest all those on here that think it is worse to unite with like minded people on other Australian car forum sites and take it to the ACCC. Admittedly the ACCC is a bit of a joke, but taking it to the media would be beneficial as with taking it to parliament.

The reason why you would seriously want to do this you may ask? because e10 blend is all you'll be able to get in a year or two...

Yeah wouldn't be wasting my time with E10. E85 on the other hand I was keen to give a try as cars with turbos,superchargers or descent compression ratios (380's is pretty good)seem to get good results from this fuel because the RON rating is very high(about 105+ from memory).You do use more litres per K but if it is priced correctly it should work out better or the same.But as EFFENUE has been bought out over here and the new owners wont be offering E85,I have nowhere to by it in SA.At the end of the day we will need an alternative fuel eventually,is ethanol it?,time will tell.

Just had a thought given that E10 burns cooler it might be worth trying a heat range hotter plugs to see if it brings the performance (economy/power) back to more acceptable levels. I'll let you know how I go.

Oh 98SPORT given the fact you haven't put a post up in this thread before you can't "say it again". Using capitals means your shouting at us, I have not seen anyone say anything negative about people having an opinion so I don't see the need to shout...
Considering this user has never posted here before, not that I have seen, and is a relatively new user I can only assume their purpose here was to wind us up for fun - as there definately wasn't any arguing here to take such offence to, and nothing at all aimed directly at him or her.

I cant give much input into this thread as I dont have a lot of experience with E10, especially in the 380 as we only use BP Ultimate, but I used to use it ALL the time in the Mirage. She seemed to like it, seemed to respond and pull a little but only slightly.
Im not a big fan of using E10 in general. I guess its just a mentality thing, using something that is made with such a high concentration of sugar running through lines, pumps, valves etc, doesnt sit well with me. But thats just my opinion.

I did a run to Sydney return (around 200km) today on the E10. Average started on 10.2 and by the time I returned home it was around 9.6L/100km. Still seeing this tank has mostly been highway and my last tank of regular was 50/50 mix and was 9.3L/100KM, I am convinced that the E10 is notworth it. I don't know if the ECU gets used to it or not but I just don't like the feel of it and the drop in response.

*puts his green hat on*

Isnt the whole point of Ethanol blends so that we are using (and getting used to the idea of using) fuels that arent consuming up whats left of the earths natural resources?

Sure they may not give the same power or efficiency, but would you expect them to?

Cheers

J

***Green hat on also*** but we burn more fuel and generate more greenhouse gases and pollute the environment because it is less economical....and around we go again lol

Well, considering the ethanol does provide energy in combusion and its at a 10 percent mix, e10 should be close to that of regular unleaded. If it uses more than 10 percent more like some people think, there's definitely something wrong. It comes down to the quality of the base fuel I think! I have no doubts some petrol companies mix 'low quality' regular unleaded without the typical additive packages they put in 98, 95, or even 91/92, and thats where the main problem with performance and economy comes in. In fact, think of it this way - the fuel is diluted with ethanol by 10 percent! so if they put the bare minimum effective additive packages in the base fuel, then once its mixed with ethanol its potentially no longer effective; or at least the benefits of the additive package effectively isn't part of the ethanol component.

Have to agree Burfadel, there was a E10 blend called BOOST 98 it was definitely every bit as good and efficient as Shell V-Power but it is no longer available.

Boost98 is still available at some United petrol stations apparently (according to their website http://www.unitedpetroleum.com.au/distributor-boost98-locations.asp), but it looks like they are also trialling a "Premium 100" 10% ethanol blend at a handful of petrol stations. I'm assuming that this is a live trial before rolling it out across Australia. 100 RON E10. Looks interesting.

http://www.unitedpetroleum.com.au/index.asp?pgID=65

Boost98 is still available at some United petrol stations apparently (according to their website http://www.unitedpetroleum.com.au/distributor-boost98-locations.asp), but it looks like they are also trialling a "Premium 100" 10% ethanol blend at a handful of petrol stations. I'm assuming that this is a live trial before rolling it out across Australia. 100 RON E10. Looks interesting.

http://www.unitedpetroleum.com.au/index.asp?pgID=65

Just checked that link. They have it at Blacktown, 10min from my home. I'll try a tank next time (if the price is better than that Extreme/V Power+ stuff).

Great Grubco. Let us know how it goes.

I noticed that they have Boost 98 at the Hamilton United, which is only a few 100m from my work, so I might try a couple of fills just to see how it goes (again depending on cost).

Great Grubco. Let us know how it goes.

I noticed that they have Boost 98 at the Hamilton United, which is only a few 100m from my work, so I might try a couple of fills just to see how it goes (again depending on cost).

Hey Apat let me know how much it is compared with regular unleaded will you. I might swing by and try some. Where is the United in Hamilton?

Yes, will do - but I'll still have half a tank of 91 in it, so could take a few tanks to run that out (or I run this tank down first).

Hey Apat let me know how much it is compared with regular unleaded will you. I might swing by and try some. Where is the United in Hamilton?

From memory, Boost98 was about 2c/L cheaper than other 98s (because of its 10% ethanol content) - could be differently priced now though.

Havent read the whole thread, but heres my opinion

I prefer regular 91ron unleaded. And one tank in 4 or 5 i will use 95 to help keep things a little cleaner.

The other day, i pulled up at a BP, which gave me 3 options. 91ron E10 @ $1.13/L; 98RON @ $1.33/L; and diesel.

Seeing as i was filling the car up, e10 won. Over 55L, its was a saving of $11. I realise now, if i go from 10L/100k's to 12L/100k's (which it has), ive gone from 550km/tank, to 460km/tank (combined cycle). Those 90km's less im getting, are going to cost me $12 to replace. Therefore, i am now $1 short. Probably more as there is a good chance i could have gotten a few more k's out of the 98 ron.

Moral of the story: E10 has to be more than 20c/L cheaper than regular unleaded to negate the higher fuel usage in my car, and most likely your too. :)

EDIT: *Adding to the green hats topic lol*
E10 is only 90% petrol. So by using it when i fill up, i am putting 10% less petrol in my car. However, i am getting 17% less efficiency, Which means i will need more fuel to get where i am going. Therefore, E10 means i will use more oil. Even if topping the remain 17% of my KM's with E10, i am still using around 15% (8.4L before added ethanol) more oil than straight unleaded. So by using E10, the world will run out of oil sooner...?

My head hurts now lol

Looking further at their site, I noticed they have 2 98s (Boost and Premium) and was wondering what the difference is. Boost has 10% ethanol and Premium has 0% ethanol. Wonder how their Premium is priced against other brand 98s (which also don't have ethanol).

Moral of the story: E10 has to be more than 20c/L cheaper than regular unleaded to negate the higher fuel usage in my car, and most likely your too. :)
Yes I'm already not a big fan of E10 fuel and have noticed worse economy and performance by it. But I'm curious about this 100 octane stuff.

Looking further at their site, I noticed they have 2 98s (Boost and Premium) and was wondering what the difference is. Boost has 10% ethanol and Premium has 0% ethanol. Wonder how their Premium is priced against other brand 98s (which also don't have ethanol).

Yes I'm already not a big fan of E10 fuel and have noticed worse economy and performance by it. But I'm curious about this 100 octane stuff.
united used to sell the 98 octane e10 for 2cpl cheaper than regular! that could make it a decent proposition, the extra RON might help with keeping the fuel consumption the same.

EDIT: *Adding to the green hats topic lol*
E10 is only 90% petrol. So by using it when i fill up, i am putting 10% less petrol in my car. However, i am getting 17% less efficiency, Which means i will need more fuel to get where i am going. Therefore, E10 means i will use more oil. Even if topping the remain 17% of my KM's with E10, i am still using around 15% (8.4L before added ethanol) more oil than straight unleaded. So by using E10, the world will run out of oil sooner...?

My head hurts now lol

Geez dude.....You had a REAL think about this one hey! Even MY head hurts...HAHA

Who said rear plugs are hard to do? Took about 25 min for all 6, I have gone up a heat range on my plugs and will try E10 again and report back on economy in about 2 weeks. So far I out of pocket about $45 for gasket and plugs but we'll see how we go. Just as an aside in the aviation area during world war two they boosted octane on planes by injecting water. Water injection is great octane booster but doesn't do much for performance unless the engine is tuned to accept it.

Where is the United in Hamilton?

The official address is 67 Stewart Ave Hamilton South, but it is on the Pacific Highway on the South bound side just near the traffic lights at the school (and next to where the Hot Wok noodle bar used to be, may it RIP :sook:).

I've just filled up on Friday night so it might be a few weeks before I can give it a go, but I'll drive past there this afternoon after I leave work to see what price they have it at.

My experience with E10 has been pretty ordinary, never going near the stuff again. When I had my Accent I used E10 pretty often until I had issues with flat spots when accelerating.

In the 380 I have been using 98 octane fuel consistently and the engine has been running very smooth. Not even going to consider filling up with E10 even if it is 98 octane.

Also, there is alot more to fuel than just octane rating...

The official address is 67 Stewart Ave Hamilton South, but it is on the Pacific Highway on the South bound side just near the traffic lights at the school (and next to where the Hot Wok noodle bar used to be, may it RIP :sook:).

I've just filled up on Friday night so it might be a few weeks before I can give it a go, but I'll drive past there this afternoon after I leave work to see what price they have it at.

cool! let me us know how it goes!!

Just a heads up United's fuel is supplied by the Caltex Refinery (in South Newcastle there) so what you are technically getting is Vortex 95/98

Not a fan of Vortex, used it a few times and nothing much happened.
What about their new 100, where does that come from?
(Will be a while before I can get some, still have 2/3 tank)

Hey did anyone else hear the govt ripping into the oil companies yesterday for overcharging on premium? They were saying that there is no justification for the massive price difference between the two and there should only be a few cents a litre difference. If that were the case I would def use premium!! They also reckon that petrol prices should come down to around $1/litre with voucher in the next month or so!! BRING IT ON!!!

The other day I saw something quite interesting. Shell V-Power was actually cheaper than Premium by about 4 cents...go figure?

Sigh... I remember the good old days when it was only 10c higher (only a few years ago).

The price difference is justified, just not by 16c per litre, premium has alot more additives, and also has a shorter shelf life, not to mention its not produced in the same quantities as regular unleaded is.

This discussion has come up in the media before, nothing was done, and no doubt this time it will be the same.
Really, are you suprised? We are talking about fuel companies here that don't give a wet slap about anyone or anything apart from the bottom line. These people would sell their own grandmothers for a higher profit margin!!

Sigh... I remember the good old days when it was only 10c higher (only a few years ago).
Ahh yes I remember the good ol days..."I fought and died in the war for you son..." "don't dad me son, I'm your father" Ted Bullpit.
Seriously though, if it were only 10c a litre different more people would buy the stuff I am sure. The fact of the matter is that we have crappier fuel here than in Europe and pay premium for it.

Not really, Shareholders>everyone else. But hey they are returning a dividend atm so its still making me money.

Soooo you're one of the filthy rich shareholders that is costing us heaps at the bowser eh lol?

Judging by the comments now, i'd say this thread has run its course.