Guys

As you know the missus 380 went to the dealer for a couple of minor body work issues, fixed under warranty no problem.

The missus mentions the engine rattles when cold (at idle is fine, about 1200-1500 revs it rattles - fine once it's warmed up), so mentioned to the dealer and had to leave it overnight so they could do a cold start. It sure enough rattled for them (missus wasn't paranoid after all) and they claim the rear camshaft will have to be replaced. Will take a couple of days for the part to come in etc etc.

A quick search hasn't bought up anything, anybody else have any similar issues and what would cause the rear camshaft to rattle when cold?

Could this also contribute to the 17.2 l/100 k's the 380 gets around town?

Cheers

JB5

Sounds like the camshaft is not getting lubricated properly on a cold startup. Possibly could also be the cause of your very very high fuel consumption. Wait and see what the dealer says, thank god you still have warranty.

mine has a rattle when cold sometimes, not sure if its camshaft/lash adjusters due to lack of oil or timing belt tensioner not returning properly and its the timing belt slapping around. Will have to run over it witha stethoscope one day to work it out.
If i turn the motor off quickly and then restart it almost goes away but not completely until warmed up

I had that and it was the lower injector seals that needed replacing.

I swore it sounded like it was tappetts,cam etc....but that's what the fix was.

It was a part of warranty.

I had that and it was the lower injector seals that needed replacing.

I swore it sounded like it was tappetts,cam etc....but that's what the fix was.

It was a part of warranty.

Mine started making a tappety noise about 15,000k ago, round about the 32,000k mark.

Nothing serious, fairly mild, but you can still hear it in the cabin at idle. Warm or cold, no difference.

I just put it down to the usual noisy Mitsu lash adjusters, but I did think it was a bit early for this to happen, considering I have used quality oil at all times and always changed the oil around the 10,000k mark.

So it looks like it might be lower injector seals, I will take it into the dealer and insist they at least check if not replace the injector seals.

Thanks in advance Blackstar if that fixes the noise.

KJ.

KJ, they can prove it by spraying something on the injector rail I seem to recall reading somewhere.

Also, it could be the injector fuel rail needs a recall, but i think that may have been in series 1?

Mine is a series 1, but it's an ex-Mitsu factory employee car so I'm guessing that if it needed the fuel rail fix it would have been done. Nothing in the owners manual or service manual about it though, but that doesn't prove it hasn't been done already.

KJ.

Mine started making a tappety noise about 15,000k ago, round about the 32,000k mark.

Nothing serious, fairly mild, but you can still hear it in the cabin at idle. Warm or cold, no difference.

I just put it down to the usual noisy Mitsu lash adjusters, but I did think it was a bit early for this to happen, considering I have used quality oil at all times and always changed the oil around the 10,000k mark.

So it looks like it might be lower injector seals, I will take it into the dealer and insist they at least check if not replace the injector seals.

Thanks in advance Blackstar if that fixes the noise.

KJ.
We also have the problem kj380, tapping noises when hot or cold. Im thinking that it was just noisy injectors, but I may also get them to check it out when I get home next.
Thanks for the info Blackstar.

If you are getting them to check it then it's the same labour to replace them....
just tell them to replace them anyway, they will go soon if not already....
The inlet manifold has to come off unfortunately....:)

Mine happened just on 30,000k's.
So did my brother's.

Hope it works out for you guys.

I had that and it was the lower injector seals that needed replacing.

I swore it sounded like it was tappetts,cam etc....but that's what the fix was.

It was a part of warranty.

I have the same noise when cold and swore it was a tappet noise too, took it to the dealer and they said they all do it. No action. Are you saying that they actually replaced the seals and then it was ok from there on in on cold start up? If so I am back to Mr Mitsi!!

Thanks for all feedback guys. Lower injector seals huh? I'll definately mention that to the dealer next time I talk to them. I would have thought that would be a cheaper fix than replacing a cam though. makes me wonder a bit. Still, glad to see I 'aint Robinson Crusoe on this issue, I was wondering if our engine was just a bad 'un.

Thanks for all feedback guys. Lower injector seals huh? I'll definately mention that to the dealer next time I talk to them. I would have thought that would be a cheaper fix than replacing a cam though. makes me wonder a bit. Still, glad to see I 'aint Robinson Crusoe on this issue, I was wondering if our engine was just a bad 'un.

Heck if they are going to replace the cam and you can afford the down time, I would let them. Net result would be a new cam!! If you are still getting 17l/100 I would def look at either the injectors, rail or vacuum leak (or get the lead out of the wifes right foot!! lol)

I have the same noise when cold and swore it was a tappet noise too, took it to the dealer and they said they all do it. No action. Are you saying that they actually replaced the seals and then it was ok from there on in on cold start up? If so I am back to Mr Mitsi!!

That is exactly what I am saying.

Mine makes noise when it is warm...LOL...but that is the noise from the LPG injectors...


You can do it yourself if you have to...it takes about half an hour and it's not a ball-breaker.

the seals are in this pic...

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/1346/injectorseals.th.jpg (http://img386.imageshack.us/i/injectorseals.jpg/)

Well, the car is ready to be picked up, so I'll pick her up later today and see if she's cold enough to check on the rattle. If not, it'll have to wait until the morning. When I asked the dealer if the problem is fixed, he said "it seems so, but you'll have to be the judge of that..":hmm:

I'm not bagging the dealer, Eastside have been extremely helpful (recommended), but I would have liked him to be a bit more confident! :confused:

Anyway, I'll let you guys know how I go after a cold start, if it's still there time for the lower injector seals.

Cheers

JB5

Guess what? No change, still rattles until 1/3 on the temp guage, and in fact the fuel economy has gone to around 19/l since it was picked up. Anyway, gonna try the lower injector seals, well, they better come to the party. "You be the judge" - well I am, and they better fix it or I'll be the jury and executioner as well. :sniper:

Guess what? No change, still rattles until 1/3 on the temp guage, and in fact the fuel economy has gone to around 19/l since it was picked up. Anyway, gonna try the lower injector seals, well, they better come to the party. "You be the judge" - well I am, and they better fix it or I'll be the jury and executioner as well. :sniper:

Take no prisoners and remind them (diplomatically and politely) everytime of the service history and how they have failed to rectify the problem after x amounts of tries, after all this is warranty!! 19l/100!!! For stuffs sake that is what you would get out of an SS driven hard!! There is something def wrong if they are the readings!! That is about double the fuel consumption I am getting!!
Edit: more than double!!!

Probably best to rein in the hostile attitude...it does nothing for assisting you in your position.

Just tell them that you need it fixed this time and could they please arrange a loan car at their expense, for the duration, as you are now becoming out of pocket.

Don't make threats, that's the worst thing you can do.

Also politely suggest that maybe they need to call in second line technical support?

Well, just spoke to the dealer and mentioned you've had the same problem. They want to know what dealer fixed yours so they can call them and so what the best way to go is. Is that ok?

Cheers

JB5

Well, just spoke to the dealer and mentioned you've had the same problem. They want to know what dealer fixed yours so they can call them and so what the best way to go is. Is that ok?

Cheers

JB5

Penrith Mitsubishi NSW (mid last year.)

:thumbsup: Thanks mate!

Dunno why they need tech support to change injector seals.

In 20 minutes you have the manifold off, in another 10 you have all the injector seals replaced.

Pretty basic stuff.

And total cost of parts RRP is $32 a set...

I think it's more like they don't believe it. I had thought they did a genuine investigation as to why it rattled and then came up with the camshaft, but when I questioned the dealer further he said they had a 380 with a rattle a few months ago and it was the camshaft. So they just assumed it was the same thing and changed it.... Three days off the road, and I suppose I got a new camshaft, but I'd just rather have the actual problem fixed!

I think it's more like they don't believe it. I had thought they did a genuine investigation as to why it rattled and then came up with the camshaft, but when I questioned the dealer further he said they had a 380 with a rattle a few months ago and it was the camshaft. So they just assumed it was the same thing and changed it.... Three days off the road, and I suppose I got a new camshaft, but I'd just rather have the actual problem fixed!



So.....they made a diagnosis, they got it wrong...and they don't believe your suggestion?.

Maybe time to go to another dealer.

I would agree with Blackstar (dont fall over there Blackie!!). The problem hasn't been solved and they dont appear to be listening to you. Possibly go into another dealer and dont tell them the history until they listen and give their opinion. This wont muddy the waters for them or put ideas in their heads. I would want them to listen to it whilst I was there and then for them to give their ideas. If they then came up with the same idea as the other mob you could advise them of the history then. Sometimes when you have an idea put in your head you cant see past that, if you know what I mean. I still have my "tappet" noise on start up until it warms up a bit. I will wait to see the outcome with yours before I go and chat my local Mitsi dealer. Best of luck mate.

Big question...how many kilometres has this car done?

You mean ours? 68K.

You mean ours? 68K.



yeah mate, yours.


Is it a series 1? If it is..they also had a campaign to fix a fuel rail seating issue, the fuel rail would lift and stop the injectors from seating properly, when warmed up it would be fine.

It was...in a very,very small batch of cars...but you never know.

When an injector is being sprung up it clicks due to suction and release.


I can't believe they swapped out a camshaft...they are so way off the mark that dealer...


then again, treat all i say as my opinion/experience only...It may be something else that I haven't seen yet.


if it was my car and had done 70,000 I would change seals at my cost and be done with it.

It is hard enough to try and diagnose a noise when the car is in front of you sometimes, let alone from a thread. That would have been an expensive job to do the cam too. My series 1 has done around 80k. I am not sure if my noise is the same as yours but mine def doesn't sound as bad (from what you are telling me). It goes away as soon as some temp gets in the engine. Still I may try another dealer and see what they say. Does everyone elses injectors sound rattly when the engine is cold or is that just me too?

Well, just heard from them again. The claim the seals can't be the cause as the seals are under constant pressure and while they would suck they would not release due to this. Strange. They're still (apparently) happy to fix the problem, but they have no further ideas.....maybe I should just tell them to change the seals at cost to me, what do you think the all up cost would be......and what would be the consequences if I just left it as is (we don't have money to burn, unfortunately)...

Edit: Series 2

go elsewhere.

Unfortunately there's no evidence they're wrong. Unless it's a clear fault (ie something actually broken) fault finding is a real PITA. Their explanation as to why it can't be the seals seems reasonable (they claim there's no way it can suck and release, ony suck - vacuum or some such, I can't remember exactly), and unfortunately there's zero real evidence to back up the claim that it is the seals. They've investigated with other dealers and no one has heard of the lower injector seal fix. Doesn't mean it's not true, there's just no evidence it is.

It is hard enough to try and diagnose a noise when the car is in front of you sometimes, let alone from a thread. That would have been an expensive job to do the cam too. My series 1 has done around 80k. I am not sure if my noise is the same as yours but mine def doesn't sound as bad (from what you are telling me). It goes away as soon as some temp gets in the engine. Still I may try another dealer and see what they say. Does everyone elses injectors sound rattly when the engine is cold or is that just me too?

I think its a 380 trait to sound a bit rattly when cold mate, mine and others I have driven all sound like diesels when the motor is cold!!

I think its a 380 trait to sound a bit rattly when cold mate, mine and others I have driven all sound like diesels when the motor is cold!!

Diesels? ..... Mine doesn't!

Diesels? ..... Mine doesn't!

Nor mine

Diesels? ..... Mine doesn't!


Nor mine

Maybe diesel is a bit of an overstatement, but a light tappety noise is noticeable no? I have driven 4 380's to date and all had a noticeable tappety noise when cold...thats not under hard throttle either...I barely touch 1800rpm when my motor is cold.....

Maybe diesel is a bit of an overstatement, but a light tappety noise is noticeable no? I have driven 4 380's to date and all had a noticeable tappety noise when cold...thats not under hard throttle either...I barely touch 1800rpm when my motor is cold.....

Yeah that is what I have, it does go away altogether when the motor is warm though so I wasn't that worried about it until this thread.

Yeah that is what I have, it does go away altogether when the motor is warm though so I wasn't that worried about it until this thread.

Surely there must be a difference between what you and I have noticed and what JimBeamer is talking about. I was told its a normal thing for 380's to do till warm, and if the several I have driven do the same thing that sorta suggests its normal right? Unless all just so happen to have the same camshaft problem :think:

Well, it doesn't appear to be a camshaft problem - at least in my case. I've only ever driven one other 380 and it was warm. We bought ours from a mitsu dealer I used to work at (years ago) and one I've the guys there I've known since we were 10 (a long time ago!) - and they gave me a real good price (2K below sticker without even really asking for a discount) and a second key at cost. My point is I don't think they sold us a lemon. I rarely drive the 380, the missus does 95% of it's driving and she's only noticed it over the last month or so. I would rather the dealer (not the same dealer BTW, it's much closer) have said "it's normal, don't worry about it", rather than changing camshafts! (and still not fixing the problem). It's not really practical for me to leave the car at the original dealer BTW.

Just an update for you guys in case anyone is still having the same problem. Still not fixed, they now claim there's a problem with cylinder #2 and they're going to do a complete rebuild of the engine. Time to complete that: 3-6 weeks! (Wouldn't get them a win at Bathurst, would it?). So without a ride for the missus for that time, so she'll get the Sportwagon and I suppose I'll...piss in the gutter and swim or something. I was rather hoping for a simple fix, I suppose getting the engine re-built is a good thing (?) in the long run. What's pissing me off though is they had it scheduled for November, then December, then January and now February...

Just an update for you guys in case anyone is still having the same problem. Still not fixed, they now claim there's a problem with cylinder #2 and they're going to do a complete rebuild of the engine. Time to complete that: 3-6 weeks! (Wouldn't get them a win at Bathurst, would it?). So without a ride for the missus for that time, so she'll get the Sportwagon and I suppose I'll...piss in the gutter and swim or something. I was rather hoping for a simple fix, I suppose getting the engine re-built is a good thing (?) in the long run. What's pissing me off though is they had it scheduled for November, then December, then January and now February...

You would think it would be easier for them to replace the whole engine instead of rebuilding it eh?

What a crock! To be honest I wouldn't really want Dealership monkeys rebuilding my motor. I'd put money on having to go back after the rebuild.

From what I understand they send it away, and I agree, it would be easier, quicker (and probably cheaper all around) to just swap it out....

JB5

They should run an exchange program for these sorts of things I reckon. IE you send your rooted motor to them and they give you a freshly rebuilt one then rebuild your old motor for someone else. And 3-6 weeks for a rebuild is a pretty long time. You think they'd have all the parts ready to go and a machinist booked before pulling the engine out and taking the car off the road.

I would still go elsewhere, at least to get a 2nd opinion!

Thats disappointing to hear about your problem. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I would think this is the first 380 on this forum to have a major problem?

What a crock! To be honest I wouldn't really want Dealership monkeys rebuilding my motor. I'd put money on having to go back after the rebuild.

Usually the dealer only removes the engine from the car. The engine then gets repaired at a close-by engine reconditioner and the dealer refits the engine. Most car makers do it this way.


Thats disappointing to hear about your problem. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I would think this is the first 380 on this forum to have a major problem?

Graham saw a fully blown 380 at an engine reconditioner in Maitland a few weeks ago. It had only done about 40,000km and appeared to have dropped a valve. They replaced it with a new engine.

Keep in mind that engine noise does not necessarily indicate a major problem. Large numbers of Chev/Holden Gen III LS1 were rebuilt with new pistons because Aussies are very fussy about noisy engines. In USA and Canada the rattly diesel sounding Gen III never gets complained about. The 380 has a very short slipper piston like you would find in a Formula 1 race engine and I would expect that some would be very noisy. After seeing a 380 piston I'm surprised Mitsubishi managed to build such a quiet engine. The Gen III has a similar piston style, with a bit more skirt but there isn't a lot of difference. Just compare the piston rattle of a Gen III with a 380 and you'll see how quiet the 380 is. Graham thinks the 380 sump design may also be a sounding chamber that amplifies engine noise. He was a bit surprised Mitsubishi chose to use that design in conjunction with a rattly slipper piston. Also injector operation can be quite noisy and as its a sequential injection system its firing coincides with the same cylinder's piston movement the two sounds can be mistaken.

Cheers,
Alan

You would think it would be easier for them to replace the whole engine instead of rebuilding it eh?


The 380 engine is only available as a short engine through spare parts.

By rebuilding they probably mean refitting the original heads and bolt ons to the new block.

Price of a new long motor is $2650 ex GST.

I have already enquired about it....;)





.

UPDATE: Dealer has had the car for two weeks. Sent the engine to the engine shop who report that two pistons (the guy at the dealer didn't know which two) are slightly undersized and will need to be repaced by larger ones (about 25 thou he said). He says there are "3 levels" of pistons for the 380 engine and these will be on the second level. I asked him if they will replace all or just the two "undersized" ones, he said he hopes so. I told him to make sure that 's what's done. How long you ask? He didn't know as he has no idea where the parts are coming from. Hmmm.

25 thou is a lot....

I can't see what they told you as being right.

I reckon you will get a new block like me.


.

Well, they said today they are going to replace all six pistons (and of course rings etc), maybe they'll just replace the block, who knows. The parts aren't arriving (from where I don't know) until end of next week, then over to the engine shop. He then starts talking about they'll have to measure the pistons to bore the cylinders etc etc Seems like a lot of work (and may not be the fix) when they can just replace the block. Surely all this stuffing around can't be cheaper?

Well, they said today they are going to replace all six pistons (and of course rings etc), maybe they'll just replace the block, who knows. The parts aren't arriving (from where I don't know) until end of next week, then over to the engine shop. He then starts talking about they'll have to measure the pistons to bore the cylinders etc etc Seems like a lot of work (and may not be the fix) when they can just replace the block. Surely all this stuffing around can't be cheaper?

Probably only cost them $500 for the pistons (if that) then bugger all for boring and honing of the block. They would have done their sums.

It should be a good job if they measure everything for the rebore.

Probably only cost them $500 for the pistons (if that) then bugger all for boring and honing of the block. They would have done their sums.


Trouble is Mitsi only pay the dealers a token sum for the warranty work....(according to what was said to me)

Completely stripping down is a lot more labour on part of the dealer.

It should be a good job if they measure everything for the rebore.

That was specifically mentioned as part of the job, so here's hoping...

Nearly fell off my chair 25 thou!!!!!!!!!!!! IS MASSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!! hate to see the bore if its that small!

You know...thinking about it if they do rebuild it, it just may come out like the old blueprinted donks did years ago.

nah....no way....it will be a short motor from spares:)