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I know Foozr was looking at doing the same. May try a PM to him.

I know Foozr was looking at doing the same. May try a PM to him.

Yes he was all over this, a while back, but sorta gave up as noone wanted to share an order with him (I think). Definately PM him and you'll certainly get some more info on your plans.

Yep I'm in as you already know!!!

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I wonder why RPW wont do any R and D on it? Have you asked them that?

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Contact madmagna if he has time I'm sure he'd lend a hand..

To fit that LSD will require a fair bit of machining so be aware, not sure but I would check if the US Galant has a LSD option. Sorry thats for a manual I'm not sure if the about the auto boxes. Good luck, thats good that RPW will take the diff back.

Cheers Dave

I wonder why RPW wont do any R and D on it? Have you asked them that?

Hahahaha RPW and R&D..... are words that dont go together

Hahahaha RPW and R&D..... are words that dont go together

Aww how cynical!! Such a professional outfit as RPW must sink endless amounts of time into R and D work and have vast amounts of experience and wisdom to share.

Aww how cynical!! Such a professional outfit as RPW must sink endless amounts of time into R and D work and have vast amounts of experience and wisdom to share.

You are joking arnt you? :)

RPW have a bad name from there lack of R&D and there bad habit of over inflating prices and also "modify/repacking" of parts so that there is no part numbers shown, as well as selling dodgy parts......the list goes on.

Many members on here wouldnt waste there time and hard earned cash, dealing with them anymore.

The scary thing about RPW is, Dave had just convinced the entire Ralliart Colt community to donate money to his bank account for the R&D into cracking the ECU. Lots of money donated so far - no results yet.

Sorry I know that's off topic. Carry on.

The scary thing about RPW is, Dave had just convinced the entire Ralliart Colt community to donate money to his bank account for the R&D into cracking the ECU. Lots of money donated so far - no results yet.

Sorry I know that's off topic. Carry on.

Just goes to show how gullible some people are hey.

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A lot of bad rep about RPW here.


Problem is guys...where else do you source 380 extractors or a Quaife diff with a buy back option?

Happy to switch allegiances if someone can offer an alternative source?


BTW they sell the quaife diff cheaper than I can get from the UK direct.....I checked.

Well RPW dont make the 380 extractors themselves (actually do they make anything themselves? ) So find out who supplies them to RPW and then approach them direct.... Think outside the square a little when it comes to sourcing parts and you will be surprised what ya can find :)

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Dunno...all i know is everyone gets them from RPW...do you have a better source?

How do I find that? Any clue?


I hear what you are saying, and I detect that you hate them a lot, I suppose I could source them from TMR?

As far as i know, there magna extractors are/were made in NSW, im sure EZboy or someone else can maybe verify that, as im sure that supplier would also make there 380 extractors.

I just hate the way RPW go about leading people astray, telling lies and generally shafting people then they wonder why AMC people dislike them.

Try Liverpool exhausts here in NSW, i know they used to make the extractors for the 3.5, so maybe they make the 380 ones as well

Try Liverpool exhausts here in NSW, i know they used to make the extractors for the 3.5, so maybe they make the 380 ones as well

From post #130 (my post) back in July 2009 on this page:

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67072&highlight=extractors&page=13

"My exhaust guy told me today that a few weeks ago he rang Liverpool Exhausts in Sydney, who make the 380 extractors, and apparently they make the extractors 'under licence' from RPW on a jig designed/specified by RPW, and they don't supply them to the general public, otherwise that would be in breach of their contract with RPW."

My exhaust guy has been straight with me so I don't doubt what he said but I have also heard that Liverpool Exhausts will supply & fit 380 extractors for 'special' customers. Apparently the catch is 'and fit', they won't just sell you a set. Which means if you don't live in or near Sydney it could be an expensive exercise. I haven't had any problems with my RPW 380 extractors as far as performance, fit, finish & quality go, just would have been nice (and saved me a pile of cash) if they had sorted the O2 sensor bungs & wiring & extenders before I bought my set instead of after!

KJ.

Funny.....i thought this thread was SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT l.s.diffs. :doubt:

Funny.....i thought this thread was SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT l.s.diffs. :doubt:

Yep, that's the way it started, but then it drifted off into a general discussion about RPW and their products, seeing as they are the only know Oz suppliers of the Quaife LSD for a 380.

KJ.

Yep, that's the way it started, but then it drifted off into a general discussion about RPW and their products, seeing as they are the only know Oz suppliers of the Quaife LSD for a 380.

KJ.

IF you can get the quaife part number for the LSD they use then ANY supplier/reseller of Quaife diffs would be able to get it for you, but seeing as RPW arnt even sure if a LSD will fit a auto 380 then that will be hard to do hey.

Our point exactly eh Jason! We are trying to get a diff to fit an auto 380. There are numerous people interested sooo you would think they may help out a bit mmm? NOT!

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Got the transmission apart from the rest of the gear tonight.

The 380 auto driveshafts have 28 splines.

Anyone know how many on the manual?

I'm pretty sure the diff RPW will be sending you is the QDH7B which only has 27 splines.

Getting that sinking feeling here!

Getting that sinking feeling here!

Don't panic there are other privately discussed options which will become clear if it doesn't fit :happy:

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Might be worth asking now, how many 380 auto owners would be interested in a LSD if we can sort something out here??

We are concentrating on the auto as that is what we have but it may also fit the manual if the Magna Quaife doesn't already.

id be interested.

So as a 'igorant' person when it comes to LSD (I thought it was something you sucked off a piece of paper and made you see things)
What are the benefits?:woot:

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So as a 'igorant' person when it comes to LSD (I thought it was something you sucked off a piece of paper and made you see things)
What are the benefits?:woot:

Limited Slip Diff = More traction.

If you don't have enough mods to be getting easy wheelspin etc I wouldn't bother. It will aid the higher powered 380's on fast take off & powering out of corners.

Noted mate.

The aim is to get an easily repeatable install, so have got two companies involved.

A differential specialist and an auto trans rebuilder...almost next door to each other.

As soon as I get the quaife, it's all tee'd up.


Did they make an auto AWD magna?


The AWD magna was Auto only. So answer to your question is yes.

The AWD magna had a rear LSD but a "open" front diff.

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Just thinking of another project after this one....

So...a 6G74 transmission maybe,with abit of luck, just might bolt on to a 6G75?

Well considering people on here have already mated the 6G75 onto there FWD magna gearbox, then there shouldnt be to many issues with what you want to do.

Limited Slip Diff = More traction.

If you don't have enough mods to be getting easy wheelspin etc I wouldn't bother. It will aid the higher powered 380's on fast take off & powering out of corners.

My auto still lights them up off the mark even with TC on as I noted the other day when getting in front of a dismayed subaru driver off the lights. Tricky things to get going. Even without mods they can be good as you are getting more even drive under heavy cornering, not picking up a wheel. Also helps in slippery conditions. If none of these apply to you I wouldn't honestly bother. better things to spend your $$ on.

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Unfortuantely expecting race car performance from the family taxi is a bit much to ask.

The more mods you do, the better the take off, overtaking, handling...etc.

Spend 20 grand on it and it will be perfect....:beer:

If I was going to spend 20 k I would have a different car instead and it would be rear wheel drive or AWD. I am under no illusions that this is a family truckster but even they need a hand with some simple mods to improve them. LSD is a nice option. As for me I dont drive that hard on the road anymore..........err well OK now and then I like to have a toddle through some twisty bits (now very hard to find in the day and age of freeways!) and I do know that an LSD would make this package a lot better in those conditions. Personally I dont think I could justify the spend, but the old school boy racer in me is always interested. And no I don't expect race car performance out of the 380. You just like stirring me eh Blackie lol?

has it started yet or still waiting on parts.

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I have got a spare auto trans sitting on the floor waiting for RPW to get the diffs in from the UK.

Then i'll see if it's a win with minor changes or if i need help from a differential specialist.

As a minimum i reckon i'll need driveshafts from the diff to the CV joint maybe from a manual magna.

It's all waiting on delivery of the LSD.....might still be a cuppla weeks??

If RPW told you a couple of weeks it'll be longer lol

If there is no hope in hell of the diff centre fitting we still have another option if we can get some numbers together :happy: ....... think we maybe around the 5 mark so far :ninja:

If RPW told you a couple of weeks it'll be longer lol

If there is no hope in hell of the diff centre fitting we still have another option if we can some numbers together :happy: ....... think we maybe around the 5 mark so far :ninja:

Ahh a plan B eh. What may that be?

Ahh a plan B eh. What may that be?

Plan B's are always good. Would you like to be number 6 on the list?

There was talk on a US forum that for an order of 10 units Quaife would make a diff cetre compatable with the Galant/380. This will be a last resort & we will need the numbers & hopefully they are still willing to do the deal for only 10 units.

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I approached them directly by email already Fooz, the respondent wasn't very interested, though I didn't mention the magic number of TEN. ...;)

Was that the UK or US office? I will have to trace back through my emails to find who I was dealing with, it got too hard when they started asking for dimensions & spline counts.

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I emailed the UK.

US would be better now that i think of it....

Yep it was the US I was talking to, they have more of a vested interest as they can then sell them to Galant & Eclipse 5 speed auto owners where the UK can't ...... well as easily anyway.

any progress yet?

coming along...


.

Have the contact name of the guy in the US that was offering the group buy for the 9G guys, plan B is ready to be executed if plan A fails.

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never mind.

never mind.

never mind.

Got a call today that the tranny has been sent to an engineering crowd in Clayton.

It needs ten mounting holes re-engineered to fit the casting.

Now...it's up to about 1800 bucks so far.

The driveshafts still need a re-jig am hoping a manual Magna set will do the trick.

What are they actualy doing with these mounting holes & what are they for? I thought the diff spun freely in the transmission housing?

There was talk from the dealer when I bought my car that the driveshafts were equal length to help stop torque steer which means they would be different thatn the Magna? Even so can't see why the CV's couldn't be rebuilt to include the Magna axle splines?

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never mind.

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Had a phone call that the Quaife LSD is now fitted to the 380 auto transmission

$500 in engineering costs.

Will pick it up next week.

Cool, that would be the first 380 in Australia with a LSD...Good Stuff! :)

Can you please let us know what modifications were needed to fit the LSD?

never mind.

Had a phone call that the Quaife LSD is now fitted to the 380 auto transmission

$500 in engineering costs.

Will pick it up next week.

Awesome!! Hope the drive shafts are pretty straight forward :happy:

never mind.

You should start an exchange service :hmm: Take your GT tranny in to get fitted up once you get that one going & send it to me & I'll send you mine :P

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Good news mate!

Which shaft is much thinner? The 380 or the Quaife/Magna shaft input splines?

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Awesome mate sounds good.. hope you get it all cleared up shortly, my recent experiences with my quaife tell me it'l be great once its going. :)

hope thgis goes well. once finished could you please send me a copy of the diary.

Well finally, the Quaife LSD is bolted inside the transmission housing and is all complete again.

They now need to find some compatible seals for the driveshafts now....(hoping for a commodore falcon etc bit to fit)

There is still a hurdle to overcome....the driveshafts section going just to CV housing needs to be custom machined since the splines are all wrong and the shaft is much thinner.



One good thing is the guys doing the fit just shrug their shoulders and know exactly what to do.

(in fact i think they are quite interested in working in anything other than a ford/holden for a change)


I have emphasised that they keep a diary of all that was done so the process can be replicated.

It's getting close....

Are you getting this done in Geelong? When they're finished you must tell who it is, as there doesn't seem to be many around these parts who know much other than those 2 you mentioned.........

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After taking that second photo I went back for a measure again, its exactly 25mm diameter on that inner ring just next to the splines.

I reckon it's gunna be a perfect fit...and using the original shaft means standard mitsi seals can be used cause only the splines will get machined...perfect....:)

So what you're saying in effect is that the shafts are the same diameter just the splines are different? If the shaft has to be 5mm smaller with the quaife I would be concerned with running a blower through it.

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Sorry... i have chosen to delete this post.

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The splines are machined, just getting the case hardening re-done next week.

It's getting close.

Good news! How long before we see this in operation?

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Sweet. Blackstar, you will have to get some videos from outside the car - one with the open diff spinning up, then one with the LSD. Some incar footage would be sweet too.

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I won't be posting any more links to performance videos for AMC.

Why not? :nuts:

Why not? :nuts:

Could have something to do with this http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81201

Could have something to do with this http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81201

Oooooookay. I was under the impression that a limited slip differential was a performance item, not to be confused with its cheap and nasty younger sister, the welded diff center. I was also under the impression that an LSD could be tested (breaking traction on two wheels for the purpose of creating smoke, or for an even launch or corner exit) under controlled conditions, at the track or as you people like to say 'private road'. Unfortunately I hadn't read the posts that were edited, so I don't know of the tone of the thread itself, but Blackstar seems to have his head screwed on so I don't think it would have been an intentional breach of forum rules.

Oooooookay. I was under the impression that a limited slip differential was a performance item, not to be confused with its cheap and nasty younger sister, the welded diff center. I was also under the impression that an LSD could be tested (breaking traction on two wheels for the purpose of creating smoke, or for an even launch or corner exit) under controlled conditions, at the track or as you people like to say 'private road'. Unfortunately I hadn't read the posts that were edited, so I don't know of the tone of the thread itself, but Blackstar seems to have his head screwed on so I don't think it would have been an intentional breach of forum rules.

Couldnt agree more.

I won't be posting any more links to performance videos for AMC.

Shame. I have posted links to vids I've made of my car. Perhaps just a good description then.

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Blackstar, is the outer joint spline the same as the Magna Third gen one?

I know that some of the guys use the 380 manual gearbox in the Magna and put the Ralliart LSD into it, they need to use a shim and plate to make it fit and then use the Magna Shafts. I would say that the inner joints you have used are simply the Magna ones but I would be keen to know if the 380 outers are any different in respect to spline and diam etc

Cheers

Mal,


Blackstar, is the outer joint spline the same as the Magna Third gen one?

I know that some of the guys use the 380 manual gearbox in the Magna and put the Ralliart LSD into it, they need to use a shim and plate to make it fit and then use the Magna Shafts. I would say that the inner joints you have used are simply the Magna ones but I would be keen to know if the 380 outers are any different in respect to spline and diam etc

Cheers

Who did that? I noticed the 380 manual box seems alot smoother in shifting than any of the Magna boxes?

Mal,



Who did that? I noticed the 380 manual box seems alot smoother in shifting than any of the Magna boxes?

I agree. I went from a manual TE V6 3.0 (nine years) to a manual 380 (last two years), and the 380 gearshift is noticably smoother.

Both benefit from the additon of a 125ml tube of Nulon G70 manual gearbox treatment.

KJ.

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Thanks

If you want to drop up with some bits sometime to compare you are more than welcome to, i have heaps of the magna shafts here as well as hubs etc to compare with, all i need to get my hands on is a 380 shaft to compare the outer joint then I am good to go with my little project lol

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My job now moved to Thursday.

What the install in the car or checking the drive shafts?

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Awesome stuff!! So Friday we should have a traction report then :)

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Sounds awesome mate ...... looks like the 380 audio system will now be delayed :badgrin:

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Good stuff!!

So, this mob in Geelong could probably do something similar for a 3rd gen auto, or even manual?

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I dont want to post their phone number in case people annoy them,and it reflects on me, so can pm you with their details if you like?

Yeah, that'd be fine. Thanks. :)

Sounds sweet Blackstar, onya for having a crack and pulling it off. Yep I agree it should have been factory,so many cars are let down because of this cost cutting measure,imagine the journo's road test comments if this was fitted when the car was first released.Car must be a bullet off the line now, would be interesting to know 0-100k times now?

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It was just under 6 secs before, but it was "delicate" to launch.

It just goes in a straight line so damned easy now.

Man thats gonna suprise a few at the lights!

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I now know for sure what mod I'm saving my bickies for, all other mods will be on hold, except maybe new Boges dampers.

Great stuff Blackstar.

Any chance your fitter could/would pass on his knowledge and specs to someone like SKR?

And with mine being a manual, would that make any/much difference, would it be easier/cheaper or harder/more expensive?

KJ.

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Mate, yours being a manual...I reckon it would be miles easier, in fact i reckon it might go close to needing just the shaft work and maybe some seals.

i am certain Steve knight could handle the fitting side, but am sure that he would farm out the rest of the work with a mark up of $$.

But...doing it locally in SA is the way to go, i would get a quafe LSD, wiz around to eddys wreckers and do a mock fit up to a stuffed up tranny and shafts off a 380 wreck.

Then handball to SKR.

I have pm'ed you my man's details in any event...



Wasn't there a magna ralliart front wheel drive that had an LSD a few years back? I think it was a manual transmission...?


.

Sounds like a plan.

Only problem would be finding a wrecked manual for a test fit!

KJ.

Why in gods name wasnt it a factory option. Yeah I know....cost saving but what a waste.
Well done Blackstar

Mate, yours being a manual...I reckon it would be miles easier, in fact i reckon it might go close to needing just the shaft work and maybe some seals.

i am certain Steve knight could handle the fitting side, but am sure that he would farm out the rest of the work with a mark up of $$.

But...doing it locally in SA is the way to go, i would get a quafe LSD, wiz around to eddys wreckers and do a mock fit up to a stuffed up tranny and shafts off a 380 wreck.

Then handball to SKR.

I have pm'ed you my man's details in any event...



Wasn't there a magna ralliart front wheel drive that had an LSD a few years back? I think it was a manual transmission...?


.

AFAIK All Manual Ralliart's had an LSD

Sounds like a plan.

Only problem would be finding a wrecked manual for a test fit!

KJ.

Have a chat to Ian at Eddy Wreckers, he has the 380 box in his track car with the Ralliart LSD installed and running

Good stuff!!

So, this mob in Geelong could probably do something similar for a 3rd gen auto, or even manual?

You can drop a Quaife LSD into a 3rd gen manual no worries, no modifications to drive shafts etc, are required.. I am not sure if the same applies to the auto.. i.e. if they are the same.. I presume they probably are in terms of the drive shaft size - I know the shafts are slightly different length but it should just slip into the same location I think?

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I can't wait until I get my new tyres fitted next week, the LSD is good now but when I have some decent grip I suspect it'l be a whole lot better.

Should probably get around to doing the suspension at some point to as that will obviously help grip as well a fair bit.

Just ordered another quaife QDH7B LSD this time for my TMR380, RPW are still the cheapest i can find.....$1345 delivered inc GST.
I gave them the correct story on what is required to make it work, their website is slightly misleading.

Also getting a credit for all the accessories which were not needed that they bundled (bearings, speedo gears etc etc) about $200 saving.

They may look at offering a "kit" of changeover parts to do this conversion shortly, they are looking into it.


.
Mate what is the wait on the Quaife through RPW? If they have to get it in from OS & I don't have to pay straight up I will tack onto your order. :)

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they have one in stock mate, rang an hour ago....spoke to "Dave"

If you want it...call them now...else its about 4 weeks....remeber that WA are two hours behind


BTW Fooz...you will still get wheel spin...its just that now its both wheels...LOL

No you can have it, just spacing the bills out. Panel work & paint next then the LSD!

Both wheels have to be better than one spinning, 1st & 2nd gears might actually be useful now lol

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Yep makes sense now.

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Bet you are wondering what's on the pallet behind those diff's?

Well there is so little of it showing in the pics no-one could tell it was a pallet.

But now that you mention it, I'll have a stab - 6G75 long motor & auto gearbox from a low k wrecked 380, for your 'big' project.

And I'll have another stab at that project - world's first AWD 380.

Edit - you beat me to it! Looks like a bit more than just another LSD though, but where's the engine & gearbox?

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lol I was right I said this ages ago that you would turn your 380 into 380 awd :D

My curiosity has been the US made Endeavor, it is built on the same PS platform as is used on the US Galant and our 380.

The Endeavor is available in AWD with a 50/50 torque split front to rear.

Surely MMAL had this knowledge to assist in building an AWD 380 had sales been greater and the market requested it.

Awesome stuff, Blackstar.

Full credit to you for the LSD development.

My curiosity has been the US made Endeavor, it is built on the same PS platform as is used on the US Galant and our 380.

The Endeavor is available in AWD with a 50/50 torque split front to rear.

Surely MMAL had this knowledge to assist in building an AWD 380 had sales been greater and the market requested it.

This, I can believe. Evo 6 wreck FTW. Then, conversion time.

kgo.

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So an awd 380!!?? good luck!!

I assume you will do it to the GT and not the TMR, keep the TMR original?

The MMAL boys played around with a 3.8 in an AWD, so they must have been considering doing a 380 version.

Nice work with the LSD Blackstar! Good luck with the AWD.....should be a beaut!

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Blackstar,love ya work and can totally understand your reasons for the LSD as it really should have been a factory option,reasonably cost effective too! But can't get my head around why you would want to spent this much time and money AWDing a 380? Although i can see its value as a challenge,why, when there are so many cool cars both past and present to play with, would you bother with a rather average 4 door family truckster! Your obviously half smart and have some folding so why not build ,restore, or collect and enjoy something of benefit to the automotive world! Dont take this personally mate,just reckon your enthusiasm/money are wasted on a car that is no more than a blip on the radar screen of auto history!Just enjoy the 380 for what it is and drive it into the ground!

Blackstar,love ya work and can totally understand your reasons for the LSD as it really should have been a factory option,reasonably cost effective too! But can't get my head around why you would want to spent this much time and money AWDing a 380? Although i can see its value as a challenge,why, when there are so many cool cars both past and present to play with, would you bother with a rather average 4 door family truckster! Your obviously half smart and have some folding so why not build ,restore, or collect and enjoy something of benefit to the automotive world! Dont take this personally mate,just reckon your enthusiasm/money are wasted on a car that is no more than a blip on the radar screen of auto history!Just enjoy the 380 for what it is and drive it into the ground!

I guess what Blackstar is after is a unique car, and to see what MMAL could/should have done with the 380 had they the money & time to do it right - supercharged AWD with LSD.

Blackstar,love ya work and can totally understand your reasons for the LSD as it really should have been a factory option,reasonably cost effective too! But can't get my head around why you would want to spent this much time and money AWDing a 380? Although i can see its value as a challenge,why, when there are so many cool cars both past and present to play with, would you bother with a rather average 4 door family truckster! Your obviously half smart and have some folding so why not build ,restore, or collect and enjoy something of benefit to the automotive world! Dont take this personally mate,just reckon your enthusiasm/money are wasted on a car that is no more than a blip on the radar screen of auto history!Just enjoy the 380 for what it is and drive it into the ground!

At the end of the day, it's about being unique isn't it? It doesn't matter if it's a 380, a DeLorean or a Datto 180B with a chook cooker in it. As an enthusiast you have to respect the effort involved. Cars are never purely a logical decision made with our brains, they're an emotional choice made with our hearts. Likewise modifying cars. We know we'll never see our money back, and that it's all a bad idea, but we do it anyway to be unique and because we are controlled by our emotions.

I say good job and good luck. Like you said, you will need a lot of luck, and patience.

Keep us all posted.

The 380 crown gear must be different to the magna? Look at my photos

EDIT: It occurs to me now yours was auto .. so I guess the auto diff is different?

Stock diff: (looks like 8 holes)
http://gallery.me.com/lathiat/101253/IMG_7960/web.jpg?ver=12707797400001

Quaife: (also looks like 8 holes and the same diameter)
http://gallery.me.com/lathiat/101253/IMG_7961/web.jpg?ver=12707797500001

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Very well articulated, and right on the money.....it's all about the journey.

Cars are a bit like women. :)

...lol,and they both give us the same thing...happiness,desire,grief,pain,joy,etc....

.though ,at least a car doesnt talk back to you....:io:

and,by the way,im loving the thread and cant wait to see the development of this eventuate.

At the end of the day, it's about being unique isn't it? It doesn't matter if it's a 380, a DeLorean or a Datto 180B with a chook cooker in it. As an enthusiast you have to respect the effort involved. Cars are never purely a logical decision made with our brains, they're an emotional choice made with our hearts. Likewise modifying cars. We know we'll never see our money back, and that it's all a bad idea, but we do it anyway to be unique and because we are controlled by our emotions.

I say good job and good luck. Like you said, you will need a lot of luck, and patience.

Keep us all posted.

Yeah I totally understand the journey thing its great fun and its the best way to learn to be hands on, and I do wish him luck, no issues there.Learnt early on that spending tons of money on cars of no signifigance is just like pooring money down the sink,fair enough fit some wheels,ICE and some minor go fast goodies to your daily driver but choose your main project wisely and you can soften the blow but still have as much fun, hey you might even make money if it turns into a desirable in time.Dunno, seems abit much to prove a point as to what MMAL should have done, guess I would just buy a Liberty for my daily drive if 4wd was a must and choose something cool as to spend my hard earned on. Different strokes for different folks I guess! Good luck mate, pretty confident you'll pull it off!

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Just a note - we never had any AWD 380s at tonsley - the only 4wd ones were in the US - and I think there was only ever one. (one of my colleagues had a look over it on a trip to MMNA)

The platform does exist in 4WD obviously, just not in the 380/galant (large sedan) variants.

There was never enough market here in australia to bother sinking all the cash into engineering them. (or enough market worldwide - hence a 4wd variant doesn't exist anywhere - just like there aren't any wagons - the business case for either didn't add up)

The only reason the 4wd magnas ever saw the light of day is because the Diamante in japan was already 4wd - which made developing them for Aus a fraction of the cost that would have been required for the 380. Even so, they still weren't a commercial success. Large car buyers just don't care about the advantages of 4wd - all most people saw was extra weight and fuel consumption.

Whist retrospectively enthusasts like think "if only they'd have done xyz - it would have sold so many more cars.", the vast majority of the time, exhaustive market research at the time proved otherwise showing that the development costs for various features, configuration chages etc would never ever be covered by sales.

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If you do seriously want to convert to AWD, you'll want the rear end set-up, gearbox and tailshaft from a US Endeavor (http://www.mitsubishimotors.com/MMNA/jsp/endeavor/11/specs.do#/engineering).

The Endeavor is the AWD variant on the PS platform.

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/247/mitsubishiendeavorltd20.jpg (http://img716.imageshack.us/i/mitsubishiendeavorltd20.jpg/)

The picture below looks familiar huh?
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7917/1120305multitaskers2004.jpg (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/1120305multitaskers2004.jpg/)

The endeavor has been around for a while in the US so you should be able to get your hands on the components for reasonable cash. Only trouble will be shipping it here (still very doable however).

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Interesting - that was how the MMNA one was done.

Providing the magna gear fits easily enough FWD to AWD is a snack.

This (http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=545570)is also an example of how much fabrication and machining is required to go RWD to AWD (ignore the extreme engine choice though........!)

:eek2: that turbo looks ridiculous!

Nice work blackstar, subscribed to this thread i'm very interested to see how you go with the AWD

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...lol,and they both give us the same thing...happiness,desire,grief,pain,joy,etc....

.though ,at least a car doesnt talk back to you....:io:



A car doesn't mind if you test drive another car.

A car doesn't mind if you lust after other cars.

A car can be sold or traded in or sent to the junk yard.

Women on the other hand . . . . .

Xcuse me while I go and hug my car. lol

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The install into the GT mate.

Am fitting my entire spare transmission, in case things go belly up.


you'll be pleased to know you will only need to ship a quaife and two driveshafts to the man, if all works out.

then get fitted locally. (crown wheel will be needed on donor transmission as well)

(start trawling wreckers for two 380 drive shafts...LOL)




Does that mean that the new driveshafts have to be re-machined every time they are replaced?

Same as the Ford territory...the transfer case is...wait for it...."chain drive" off the main driveshaft....LOL

Nothing at all wrong with that method - other wise OE manufacturers wouldn't have built millions upon millions of units with those mechanicals. That's how the vast majority (like 90%) of north/south layout AWD/4wd light vehicles are configured. (ie landcruser, patrol, Nissan GTR, BMW X5 etc etc)

Married gearbox/transfer case units that use gears do exist for light vehicles, but are much much weaker than chain drive external transfer case units.

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Ah ok, When I got my CV's replaced they came as a complete shaft with the CV on each end. This was a TR not a 380 though.

I am happy to be corrected on this, however isn’t the ABS calibration different on all wheel drive versions of cars? I cannot for the moment remember exactly why but I believe it is.

If it is different, will the ABS configuration be an issue?

Edit: Just found this article from Feb 2003 re Magna Sports AWD New car test (http://autospeed.com/cms/title_New-Car-Test-Magna-Sport-AWD/A_1666/article.html). It is a review of an AWD TJ Sports and in the article there are two references to the ABS system needing to be recalibrated due the adoption of AWD.

An article titled PRODUCT INFORMATION VZ Adventra, Crewman Cross 6, Crewman Cross 8 and One Tonner Cross 6 (http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/commodore/vz/news-10.html), also makes reference to the ABS system needing re-calibration due to AWD adoption.

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You are correct.

But it isn't an issue.

I have experience that proves that the reluctor pickup on the driveshaft end is responsible for both the ABS and traction control.
The 380 and the magna AWD are identical, including the connector.

The only difference is 52 reluctor lobes on the Magna, versus 59 on the 380.
As long as:-

(a) both left and right front wheels are the same
(b) as long as both front wheels are spinning

then traction control will be happy, traction control in a 380 counts the pulses and compares L-R over an eternity in microprocessor time..
If traction control is not happy the first thing it does is disable itself AND the ABS system....since they are interdependent.

However in the case of ABS, it doesn't count the number of pulses, that takes too long, it simply scans for absence of a pulse on any of the four wheels.

So...am confident it isn't an issue. If it becomes one i will design a uP based controller to emulate all that....or just not worry about traction control on an AWD...

Of course the Magna drive shafts with the reduced reluctor pulse count are required due to the fact that 380 driveshaft splines are completely inverse to the AWD magna units.


BTW...the TJ is different to the TL/TW...I was told to not get one that old,certainlty the auto was different?

The TL/TW auto, FWD is different from the previous autos. Something to do with speed sensors, I think? I don't know, however if it was carried through to the AWD, but I'd imagine it may have done.

Same as the Ford territory...the transfer case is...wait for it...."chain drive" off the main driveshaft....LOL

So was the AWD commodore adventura wagon etc.... Nothing wrong with that setup, hell chain drive has been around since the advent of the car.

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Tell that to someone who rides a motorcycle, they stretch and need adjustment.

Chain is a very poor choice of drive mechanism,obviously a cost thing, Mitsubishi one is far superior in my opinion.



Whilst I realize that from a laymans point of view that logic may seem reasonable – in reality it is not.

Motorcycle chain drives and transfer case chain drives are completely different and are a totally incorrect analogy.

Due to weight restrictions and the environment in which they operate (exposed to road grit), motorcycle chain drives and sprockets are consumable by design, whereas transfer case chains are not.

Transfer case chains have efficiencies in the high 90 %s as they operate in a sealed, fully lubricated environment and engineering them to be of an appropriate permanent (ie non-consumable) power carrying capability is a basic machine design exercise.

They are used for light vehicle north/south AWD systems as they are the most appropriate method of power transfer when packaging, mass, efficiency, noise and proximity of rotational centres are taken into account. Gear driven external transfer cases do exist, but they are generally limited to heavy vehicles due to their significantly heavier mass and size.

In primarily FWD vehicles such as the magna, married gearbox/transfer case units are common due to the configuration of the FWD gearbox and a desire for compactness. In these cases, multiple considerations dictate that a gear driven internal drive transfer is used. These types of transfer are no more efficient, and are certainly no stronger or more durable. In fact, due to the design conditions/limitations of such systems – ie on-road, comparatively low power and torque, no low range, compact design etc etc, the power handling ability of FWD gear driven transfer units is significantly lower than chain drive external transfer cases.

That's one of the things I really like about this forum.

Someone like Blackstar who has the drive & wherewithal to have a go at something truly unique, getting advice from someone like MS-75 who obviously knows his stuff. A win - win if ever I saw one!

Better read than 'Lord of the Rings'

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That's one of the things I really like about this forum.

Someone like Blackstar who has the drive & wherewithal to have a go at something truly unique, getting advice from someone like MS-75 who obviously knows his stuff. A win - win if ever I saw one!

+ the money......that's an important one aswell....alot of us here have the above....just missing the last bit which helps a lot lol lol

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;1320849']+ the money......that's an important one aswell....alot of us here have the above....just missing the last bit which helps a lot lol lol

That's (money) what I meant by wherewithal. Showing my ancient decrepitude I s'pose, using a word like that!

That's (money) what I meant by wherewithal. Showing my ancient decrepitude I s'pose, using a word like that!

Sorry I had not one clue what that word meant, should of spent the 10 seconds googling it. :P

Whilst I appreciate your input...please prove it?

It's not really a matter of 'proving' the statement as explaining it perhaps.

As I said before, motorcycle chains operate in a highly abrasive environment – sand, general roadgrime, water etc. This means that there are two major factors involved in chain/sprocket system life – wear due to abrasion and chain stretch. Regardless of how heavily the chain is designed it will gradually wear – along with the sprockets. For this reason there is no point in making the chain heavy enough to (mostly) avoid chain stretch. The result is a chain that is sized to transmit the required power, but that is still light enough that it will stretch past allowable limits numerous times during the life of the bike. If you designed it heavily enough to avoid stretching past allowable limits until the end of the projected life of the bike, it would still wear (along with the sprockets) due to road grime and require replacement numerous times within that period. In an ideal situation, the chain/sprocket system will wear out AND the chain will reach it’s maximum allowable stretch at the same time (not actually possible of course – but that’s the sort of target one aims for when designing a machine). This avoids oversizing any one component, saves money on material during manufacture and saves the bike carrying excess weight. During the life of a motorcycle it is expected that it will chew through numerous chains and sprocket sets with the number being highly influenced by operating conditions.

In a fully enclosed transfer case, the chain operates in a bath of oil and so the accelerated abrasive wear that is present in the bike analogy is avoided. With the transfer case chain selection, stretch is the major factor in chain life, and hence the chain can be made as heavy as is needed to survive as long as the designer/manufacturer sees fit without being concerned about premature abrasive wear. Chain selection will vary based on projected use, expected torque etc etc. In most OEM applications, the chain will be selected to survive to the end of the expected life of the vehicle with the vehicle being used in a specified way (these parameters have to be specified prior to commencement of design). The chain will stretch, but provided the chain remains within the allowable limit for the life of the vehicle it can be (and is) considered non consumable. Extreme use of vehicles (ie outside of the manufacturers design parameters - lots of use in fulltime 4wding, rock crawling, much higher power (torque) engines, failure to replace transfer case lubrication etc etc) can result in the chain stretching excessively, but as it is outside of the original intent it is to be expected. These days, although cars do survive much longer, manufacturers generally consider a vehicle to have reached the end of it’s expected life at approx 10 years, and the vast majority of transfer case chain/sprocket systems will survive to this point within specification - provided the vehicle is used as expected. Of course there is a way to avoid the issues of transfer case chain stretch when extreme conditions are present – a gear driven external transfer case – however the drawback is that they are extremely heavy and noisy – hence they are not generally used in light vehicles.

The advantage of the married gearbox/gear driven transfer system used in FWD/AWD systems is their more compact nature as they are not required to be sized to cope with the sort of loads that are expected for separate chain driven transfer units. This allows power transfer with a much lower weight penalty.

Tell that to someone who rides a motorcycle, they stretch and need adjustment.

Chain is a very poor choice of drive mechanism,obviously a cost thing, Mitsubishi one is far superior in my opinion.




For a start most motorcycles dont have auto tensioners and the chain is exposed to the elements instead of being used in a "sealed" enviroment.... Hell chain tech has come along way, mitsubishi have even gone back to chains in there new range of engines (e.g 4B11,4B12 and the new 4N13 mivec diesel)

Obviously you havnt had much to do with evos cos if you did you would know that the "driveshaft" (the short hollow shaft) that links the "front" diff to the active centre diff is a fairly weak spot that can snap fairly easily but the direct shaft drive is a compact design that is very well suited to small/medium sized cars that run the east/west engine trans setup

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You obviously haven'y heard of O ring chains...I haven't changed a chain for 10 years on my trail bike...




I'll take your word for it....
I don't expect to ever own an Evo so it's all wasted on me.

Mate i raced motox for 9 years so yes i DO know about o ring chains....BUT as others and myself have said a bike chain in in a much more harsh enviroment than the chain drive on a AWD/4WD transfer case.


Well it aint all wasted on you as the AWD magna uses the same "mini" shaft setup (which hooks up the output drive from the right side of the gearbox to the centre diff/rear diff pto)

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We seem to be drifting off topic here Jason.....:happy::happy:


This is turning into a huge thread might need to make it "www.aussie380.com" soon.

lol lol

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Alan Heaphy, owner of TMR advised me today that they can fit an LSD into a 380 for just slightly more than I ended up spending on my one off project.

Where are they getting them from? unless it's the one they made up for the manual prototype which probably won't fit the auto?

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I'm pretty sure that they haven't done an auto one yet, but nevertheless they said they could do it if asked.

(apparently they just did one for an Evo.....)

Yeah but evo ones are off the shelf. Alan is a nice bloke but doesn't know much about the tech side, I found that out when he told me the tunable sprintex ecu probably had some knobs on it to change the tune :facepalm

Hope this isn't a 3 letter thing ..... *PW ..... TM*

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Believe it or not there is some progress being made on the AWD side of things....

Speaking to Alan Heapy (TMR owner) last week about a quote to fit my forged engine, casually asked if they know of an Engineer that could fit a rear differential or adapt the floor to it and outlined my intent on the AWD conversion and that I had already acquired all the tricky "bits".

They want a face to face meeting with me next week to discuss, as they want to be involved.

Might get a discount....lol


AWESOME!!!!!!!!

TMR seem to be up for a challenge

Edit: Did Alan say he wanted to grind off all the part numbers during the build????

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Stay tuned for the rear end slippery diff .....

Stay tuned for the rear end slippery diff .....


Will start a new thread me thinks.

Brave man with plenty of $$$. We love pioneers and we dream of doing projects like that but reality bites sometimes.....most times lol

How different is the 380 auto from the 3rd gen ones? Would it be similar/same or completely different to fit an LSD to a 5speed auto from a 3rd gen?