Hey guys,

i've recently picked up a nice pair of 18" RJR linear hyper blacks and whilst they look nice they've really accentuated the huge gap at the front wheel arches. As i've got a 80litre lpg tank in the boot the back is already pretty low even with just stock springs so its mainly the front i'm concerned about.

Basically, i'm wondering if its a bad idea to save some cash by just changing the springs on the front, and leaving the back alone. Can this cause a dangerous 'imbalance' in the cars handling? Do i have to change the front shocks as well or can i get away with just a new spring?

In essence i'm after a cheap way to lower the front so its equal with the back without negatively affecting handling too much, can this be done?

Oh, also i should mention my mechanics quoted me 180 for front springs, they were pedders, apparently these have a bad rep. How much do king springs go for in comparison? What are the advantages over pedders?

Update: Here's the car before and after fitting King Spring lows on the front. Looks muuuuuuch better i reckon and handles decent.

BEFORE
http://www.overclockers.com.au/pix/image.php?id=in23s&f=1'
Click to view full size! ('http://www.overclockers.com.au/pix/index.php?page=image&id=in23s')

AFTER
http://www.overclockers.com.au/pix/image.php?id=s8ic3&f=1'
Click to view full size! ('http://www.overclockers.com.au/pix/index.php?page=image&id=s8ic3')

Angle is a little different in both pics but you get the idea!

I don't have first-hand experience, but Pedders are supposedly not as well built as King/Lovell springs. Kings would have to be a similar price.

Lowering the front only will likely cause a handling imbalance as most aftermarket springs are often about 25% stiffer than the factory springs. I don't think it'd be dangerous, but you're better off keeping both ends similar. My suggestion would be something like King Lows in the front (45mm drop) and King Low SPs in the rear (30mm drop). Your rear wheels would sit in the arch more because of the lower guard height compared to the front, but it'd give you a nice trade-off between ride, handling and looks. Both have a similar spring rate, which will help handling, plus being stiffer than stock the back won't sit down as much with the LPG tank in.

Another option would be to compress your standard springs on the front to the desired height. I wouldn't recommend it (I'd go for stiffer aftermarket springs) but it's an option to consider. The benefit (and downside) is that your springs are still at the standard spring rate.

Give serious consideration to changing your shocks, as it's just as much labour to change both springs and shocks as it is to change shocks. Lower springs may wear out your standard shocks quicker too. Good aftermarket shocks (like KYBs and Boge) will likely improve ride and handling too. If your shocks are getting old I'd be replacing them.

I don't have first-hand experience, but Pedders are supposedly not as well built as King/Lovell springs. Kings would have to be a similar price.

Lowering the front only will likely cause a handling imbalance as most aftermarket springs are often about 25% stiffer than the factory springs. I don't think it'd be dangerous, but you're better off keeping both ends similar. My suggestion would be something like King Lows in the front (45mm drop) and King Low SPs in the rear (30mm drop). Your rear wheels would sit in the arch more because of the lower guard height compared to the front, but it'd give you a nice trade-off between ride, handling and looks. Both have a similar spring rate, which will help handling, plus being stiffer than stock the back won't sit down as much with the LPG tank in.

Another option would be to compress your standard springs on the front to the desired height. I wouldn't recommend it (I'd go for stiffer aftermarket springs) but it's an option to consider. The benefit (and downside) is that your springs are still at the standard spring rate.

Give serious consideration to changing your shocks, as it's just as much labour to change both springs and shocks as it is to change shocks. Lower springs may wear out your standard shocks quicker too. Good aftermarket shocks (like KYBs and Boge) will likely improve ride and handling too. If your shocks are getting old I'd be replacing them.

bang on the money
i got my magna i got king lows on the front lpg tank pretty close height but need the king sp low rears look at my ride currenty got the king lows the rear are still standard at the moment

I did this in a previous car - lower front springs & Koni shocks and left the 6+ year old saggy springs and shocks on the back. Handling was greatly improved thanks to the new shocks, but I think that being a FWD and the front doing most of the work it was something I could get away with.

I plan on doing the same with my AWD TJ Sports - lower front springs, probably same shocks and to the back I'll just add a anti-sway bar. Hopefully it is something that's OK in both a Magna and an AWD.

I'd say do it and if the car drives like poo then get the rears done - at least doing it separately _should_ cost the same as doing it all at once.

Nothing wrong with just fitting lowered stiffer springs in the front as most manufacturers go soft front/stiffer in the rear to allow for extra loads. They want the front soft to go wallowy and understeer.

However with the extra weight of gas in the rear you may be better off with stiffer stock height rear springs and stiffer lowered fronts.

Graham has custom lowered stiffer fronts and stock rears on his AWD to get the balance and ride he likes and a custom rear stabiliser bar.

Cheers,
Alan

I only dropped front on my car with new monroe shocks, handling impoved dramatically.

hey guys, thanks for all the advice! Due to a lack of funds i've put this off until now. Basically my front shocks are now completely shot and as such i'm bouncing all over the road like a f*cking yoyo. Think its about time i get the front shocks +springs done together and want to make sure i get it done right.

Does anyone know of a good suspension place in sydney they can recommend? I'm on a budget of ~800, do you reckon this would be enough to get some Boge shocks and King spring lows fitted (front only)?

Thanks again for all the help!

hey guys, thanks for all the advice! Due to a lack of funds i've put this off until now. Basically my front shocks are now completely shot and as such i'm bouncing all over the road like a f*cking yoyo. Think its about time i get the front shocks +springs done together and want to make sure i get it done right.

Does anyone know of a good suspension place in sydney they can recommend? I'm on a budget of ~800, do you reckon this would be enough to get some Boge shocks and King spring lows fitted (front only)?

Thanks again for all the help!

$800 will get both front and rear done.

Last week I got a quote from 'Bob Jane T-Mart' to lower my TF Magna.

The quote was $420 for both front & rear using King Lows or Supelows or any a combination of both, PLUS 2 wheel alignments.
The 1st wheel alignment on fitting of the springs, the 2nd at 1000 k's after the springs were fitted.

So you'll definately get change out of your $800.

I have no idea of price, but suspension places I've dealt with that I've liked are: East coast suspension in Kirrawee - I took my old Corolla to these guys yaers ago and they are still around. The Corolla handled pretty well, but after a full camber & castor & toe-in reconfiguration, it was on rails - the old 1.3L RWD was then quicker than a Laser TX3 Turbo AWD on the twisties - handling over power! oh yeah. :)
Also Jim Hunter Suspension in Blacktown put Koni's on the front of my wifes car and did a good job. These guys were recommended to me by my old favourite tyre place.

Did you want somewhere in a specific part of Sydney?

I have no idea of price, but suspension places I've dealt with that I've liked are: East coast suspension in Kirrawee - I took my old Corolla to these guys yaers ago and they are still around. The Corolla handled pretty well, but after a full camber & castor & toe-in reconfiguration, it was on rails - the old 1.3L RWD was then quicker than a Laser TX3 Turbo AWD on the twisties - handling over power! oh yeah. :)
Also Jim Hunter Suspension in Blacktown put Koni's on the front of my wifes car and did a good job. These guys were recommended to me by my old favourite tyre place.

Did you want somewhere in a specific part of Sydney?

Yeah somewhere out west would be great. I'm in baulkham hills (near parramatta). From memory my local mechanic quoted me 850 for springs and shocks (front and rear i think, but may've been just front) but they were pedders and i assumed that the kings and boge's cost alot more.

Thx for the advice, glad to know i can expect to get some change back!

Ah, another local boy! Cool! I'm in Winston Hills. There's a few of us in this area.

Tyre King on Windsor Rd quoted me about $440 for a full set of kings springs, supplied and fitted.
IMO, the supply and installation of suspension components can be done by nearly any competent mechanic, but getting the alignments optimal for various cars and their mods might benefit from more knowledge & experience. But your average tyre place will do a good enough job for normal driving.

$400-$500 is about my budget for springs. I'm looking to get my TE lowered 30mm all round. The alloys and low profile tyres made a massive improvement in the handling of my car (especially in the wet), and made it a lot more smoother to drive. Will addition of King Springs improve handling on the highway even more?

Ah, another local boy! Cool! I'm in Winston Hills. There's a few of us in this area.

Tyre King on Windsor Rd quoted me about $440 for a full set of kings springs, supplied and fitted.
IMO, the supply and installation of suspension components can be done by nearly any competent mechanic, but getting the alignments optimal for various cars and their mods might benefit from more knowledge & experience. But your average tyre place will do a good enough job for normal driving.

Tyre king are awesome, saved me a tonne of money compared to goodyear when i got my new tyres. I'll be sure to get a quote of them then. I don't think my car needs much special treatment its just a stock verada running 18" low profiles wheels so i'm basically after best value job from a non-dodgy place.

I got a quote for 1350 for front and back king springs and boge shocks from 'wholesale suspension' which is also about the same prices i saw mentioned in this thread (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71035&highlight=boge+shocks&page=3) so i'm pretty sure my local mechanics quote was for just the front only.

I'll see what tyre king says and if its ~700 or less for front only i think i'll settle for them because they're closeby and have a good rep.

Cheers again for the advice mate :thumbsup:

$400-$500 is about my budget for springs. I'm looking to get my TE lowered 30mm all round. The alloys and low profile tyres made a massive improvement in the handling of my car (especially in the wet), and made it a lot more smoother to drive. Will addition of King Springs improve handling on the highway even more?

Yeah definitely! when you lower a car, you lower it's centre of gravity which greatly improves cornering ability & stability :happy:

wholesalesuspension quoted me 825 including wheel alignment for front only boge struts and king spring lows.

Tyre king quoted me 640 for the exact same. No prizes for guessing who i've booked in with next tuesday =D

what the hell!
Its 6 bolts to change struts. Springs are $120 a pair and shocks about $240 for a pair so there charging a good $300 to undo and redo 12 bolts. not a bad profit

How many hours do you think it would take to get the front gear fitted?

First guys quoted 165 a pair for springs and 375 for shocks and 380 labour so even if they make 0 profit on the parts they still making 380. Didn't get a parts/labour breakdown from tyre king though. Should i order the parts from philcomm and just get them installed at tyreking? Their rate is 75 an hour.

How many hours do you think it would take to get the front gear fitted?

First guys quoted 165 a pair for springs and 375 for shocks and 380 labour so even if they make 0 profit on the parts they still making 380. Didn't get a parts/labour breakdown from tyre king though. Should i order the parts from philcomm and just get them installed at tyreking? Their rate is 75 an hour.

Yeah, it'll be cheaper that way.

:stoopid: should not take them more then 1.5 hours to take out your old shocks and springs and install the new ones, with the wheel alignment you should be up for $150 in labour maximum.

Exellent service and backup from philcom, highly recommended :D

Just thought i'd post a quick update on this for anyone who happens across it in future.

I ended up getting the boge shocks + king spring lows on the front only as planned and car is muchhhhhhh better now! Total cost was 640. The place i went to put in superlows first for some reason, i wouldn't have minded keeping them but these scraped the guards and were too effing low kept bottoming out every bloody minute so i got em to put lows in as i'd requested all along which they were fine to do.

I've got some pics of the new lowered setup i can post up and i'd say that the car looks about bang on even front and back despite the stock springs on the rear.

conclusion: If you're running lpg and have an 80 litre tank in the boots, king lows on just the front are perfect.

Just thought i'd post a quick update on this for anyone who happens across it in future.

I ended up getting the boge shocks + king spring lows and car is muchhhhhhh better now! Total cost was 640. The place i went to put in superlows first for some reason, i wouldn't have minded keeping them but these scraped the guards and were too effing low kept bottoming out every bloody minute so i got em to put lows in as i'd requested all along which they were fine to do.

I've got some pics of the new lowered setup i can post up and i'd say that the car looks about bang on even front and back despite the stock springs on the rear.

conclusion: If you're running lpg and have an 80 litre tank in the boots, king lows on just the front are perfect.

To even it up a little, you could throw the Low SP's on the rear, which a few other of the LPG guys have done. It's a 15mm less drop than the Lows, but will improve the rear handling no end.

To even it up a little, you could throw the Low SP's on the rear, which a few other of the LPG guys have done. It's a 15mm less drop than the Lows, but will improve the rear handling no end.

I'm running with the king lows in the rear, super lows on the front, and my TW looks very even, and a years settling too. One Fitted 80 Litre tank, should weigh 67 Kg when its full. The 64 litres of gas makes up 32 KG of mass. Its not exactly heavy. Or about the equivalent High school boy sitting in the back seat.

I might give that a try eventually because i'm assuming that the sp's are stiffer springs then the stocks. Right now my rear height changes alot depending on how full my tank is (0->68 litres), with the sp's this shouldn't vary as much i assume?

I'm running with the king lows in the rear, super lows on the front, and my TW looks very even, and a years settling too. One Fitted 80 Litre tank, should weigh 67 Kg when its full. The 64 litres of gas makes up 32 KG of mass. Its not exactly heavy. Or about the equivalent High school boy sitting in the back seat.

Hey shoot, does your car often bottom out on potholes/dodgy roads? I had super lows on for about a week and found that they not only scrubbed the cards on inside edge but more annoyingly bottomed out far too often for my liking. However considering i still had stock rears the car was very much tilted forward which put my nose very close the ground so that could've been a contributing factor.

I had noticed when I met up with interstate AMC member, with the same set up as me, he bottomed out heaps on driveways, that he took at mad angles ( i was OK).... I hardly ever ( never IIRC ) bottom out. Perhaps its the tank lifting the fronts in conjunction with the low rears. I think that was a TE/TH.

Perhaps I just got lucky (not), I did take Megatrons advice.....

In your updated post, it is not clear to me if you had the fronts done or all four corners. If its only the fronts, you will bottom out....

Oh and I have no scrubbing problems.

Lol it was only the fronts mate! So yeah i guess that must've been why it was a bastard when i had em in. If you go to front page of the thread i just added some pics where you can see the ride height of the rear on stocks- not high but not that low either. Glad to hear your setup working well for you though!

This is Low (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/SH00T/55uss.jpg).... Just for reference. It aint mine its Muzza_Oz's Ride.


Thats Mine here (http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/SH00T/IMG_0550.jpg).

Fronts only will explain bottoming out. Scrubbing is another matter altogether. i.e. offset and rim width, and lowering.

Are you sure those are just lows on the first pic? Looks more like ultra lows?? Or did you mean it's "low" in the sense that its slammed (as opposed to the actual part)?

I sort of wish king spring had chosen a different name instead of just 'low' sometimes coz it can get a bit confusing! At the very least i would've avoided the whole fiasco with my suspension job. I asked for king spring 'low's' and he took that as meaning 'i want king springs... and i want my car low' which apparently is why they chucked in super lows!

Yeah the scrubbing was coz the wheels were too wide (7.5inch i think?) and could've been fixed with some rolling. Main reason i didn't keep em in however was coz of the bottoming out. I guess one day when i have some cash i can get the rears done with some lows and put super lows back in the front like yourself, it sure looks sexy =D

those Boge shock absorbers, do you know if they come as a strut? (if you don't know what i mean: Koni shock absorbers don't come as a strut for Magna's, you've gotta cut up the original strut to fit the shock absorbers in- well, the Yellow's do anyways)

those Boge shock absorbers, do you know if they come as a strut? (if you don't know what i mean: Koni shock absorbers don't come as a strut for Magna's, you've gotta cut up the original strut to fit the shock absorbers in- well, the Yellow's do anyways)

Though i'm not certain i'm 99% sure the answer is yes. I checked the part number online a while ago and they were listed as 'magna front struts L and R'

those Boge shock absorbers, do you know if they come as a strut? (if you don't know what i mean: Koni shock absorbers don't come as a strut for Magna's, you've gotta cut up the original strut to fit the shock absorbers in- well, the Yellow's do anyways)


Though i'm not certain i'm 99% sure the answer is yes. I checked the part number online a while ago and they were listed as 'magna front struts L and R'

Yes, 100% they are a complete strut - unlike the koni yellows. (fronts are an insert, rears are complete)

I might give that a try eventually because i'm assuming that the sp's are stiffer springs then the stocks. Right now my rear height changes alot depending on how full my tank is (0->68 litres), with the sp's this shouldn't vary as much i assume?

They're stiffer than the stocks & a little stiffer than the Lows. My rear ride height still drops when I fill the tank up. Drops more when I fill both tanks + boot.