Hi All,

Just sold my old car and was about to buy another one when my landlord offered me his old TN Magna Executive Auto Wagon build date 03/89 carby model that he drives about 3 times a year for free.

Not being one to look a gift horse in the mouth I said Yes and Ta.

He said it goes ok as long as you don't want to travel around Aus in it.

He has had it since new and it has only done 102,000 km and it is in good nick bodywise for it's age

Thats the good news

Anyway I took it for a run (it started first kick and the engine sounded ok) but as soon as I got it on the road I knew that all was not well.

Put car into drive take off all well - get about 20meters changes to second trans slipppping - into second now - get about another 20 meters changes into 3rd trans slipppping - into 3rd now have only travelled 40 meters and then it goes to overdrive no slipppp but going way to slow to be in overdrive so kickdown on the pedal but no deal transmission won't kickback - press the OD button to off and we go back to 3rd and we are building up steam nearly doing 80kph now so back into overdrive and onto the M5 Motorway speed built up to 110kph but tacho not going over 1800 revs but going well - opps not quite well - appears to be like a bit of a surge/spurt then back to normal then another surge/spurt then red battery light comes on but the amps are sitting on around 14/16 another surge/spurt then battery light goes out no surge/spurt - battery light on spurge/spurt - am starting to panic now as I am about 10km from home so decide I had better get off the motorway and head for home the back way - so all the way home auto slippping from first to second and second to 3rd - battery light on and off but no surge/spurt - still won't kickback so decided I had better drive it like a manual - aaahhhh thats better no slipppping when I change gears and so far no battery red light but the tacho refuses to go over 1800 revs.

Finally get home landlord still standing there beaming with pride and asks how it went - I didn't have the heart to tell him (he is in his 80s) it was the biggest Sh..t box I had ever driven so i said it went ok - It's yours he beamed - great I says - by the way I ask when was the last time you had it serviced - about 10yrs ago he reckons - and how long has the trans been slipping I ask - since I replaced it about 11 years ago says he but he dosn't think that is a problem as he seems to think you get used to it over time - I suggest I might get it serviced says I - waste of money says he I'v only done around 10ks in the last 10yrs so it dos'nt need it yet.

Put it in for a full service with my local mechanic told him to service the trans as well - he said the engine & trans oil was like grease and he flushed the trans and put in a filter kit and that the CV joints needed replacing ( I wondered what the clickity click was when going around round corners) but the trans is still slipppping - he suggested I just drive it till it kaputs it's self.

My problem is I would like to drive it over a cliff but the old guy would be heartbroken (plus he might put the rent up :woot: ) so what do I do.

I'm clutching at straws here but is there a possible chance that:

1/ The trans may come good with the service and a few km under it's belt + a bit of manual changing of the gears.

or

2/ Could there be some link between the slippping - red battery light coming on and off - the revs not going over 1800 and the surge/spurt.

I don't want to spend any more money on it $500 on the service & CV"s - I would prefer to get a later model car but I know the old guy would be devastated as he calls in every day to see how it's going.

Sorry about the long winded story but i get carried away when I start tapping the keyboard :ninja:

Any suggestions as he and his bloody Magna are driving me to :beer: :beer:

Regards
Rich

Does the transmission make any nasty grinding or squealing noises when it is slipping?

If not and it is just flaring during changes, it may not be too serious. There is a kick-down servo switch on a round plate on the transmission, accessible from the engine bay. Check the wiring from it and that the switch is working correctly. If not, it is easy to replace and costs about $10 from a wrecker. Hardest bit is getting the big circlip off and on. The kick-down servo switch helps co-ordinate up and down changes in conjunction with two sensors on the transmission. If it is not working, the engine will flare during changes.

The surging might be from a partly clogged fuel filter and the battery light coming on because of the revs dropping.

because the car has sat for such a long time
there will be problems

1
the friction discs inside the auto box may be sticking togeather

working the box and driving it after the service may get better

did the mechanic use the genuine mitsubishi auto oil or some other fluid ?
2
alternator regulator may need to be replaced
have that alternator/ regulator and battery tested (should be putting in over 13 volts)

Does the transmission make any nasty grinding or squealing noises when it is slipping?

If not and it is just flaring during changes, it may not be too serious. There is a kick-down servo switch on a round plate on the transmission, accessible from the engine bay. Check the wiring from it and that the switch is working correctly. If not, it is easy to replace and costs about $10 from a wrecker. Hardest bit is getting the big circlip off and on. The kick-down servo switch helps co-ordinate up and down changes in conjunction with two sensors on the transmission. If it is not working, the engine will flare during changes.

The surging might be from a partly clogged fuel filter and the battery light coming on because of the revs dropping.

Hi Mate,

No the transmission dosn't make any grinding or squealing noises it just appears to slip before it goes into the next gear not sure if that is the same as flaring the other thing is it changes gears way before it should that is it only goes about 20meters and it will change up but it dosn't appear to be going fast enough for it to be changing up.

Is the servo switch the larger round one as I think there are 3 in the same vacinity - apart from checking the wiring how can you tell if it is working correctly ( it might be worth getting one from the wreckers and trying that anyway

Will check it out tomorrow and let you know the results

many thanks

Rich

because the car has sat for such a long time
there will be problems

1
the friction discs inside the auto box may be sticking togeather

working the box and driving it after the service may get better

did the mechanic use the genuine mitsubishi auto oil or some other fluid ?
2
alternator regulator may need to be replaced
have that alternator/ regulator and battery tested (should be putting in over 13 volts)

Re 1/ I doubt he did but I am sure he will say he did will check with him tomorrow - any idea what oil I need?

Re 2/ Battery is fine starts first kick and am getting 14volts steady

Regards

Rich

No the transmission dosn't make any grinding or squealing noises it just appears to slip before it goes into the next gear not sure if that is the same as flaring the other thing is it changes gears way before it should that is it only goes about 20meters and it will change up but it dosn't appear to be going fast enough for it to be changing up.

Is the servo switch the larger round one as I think there are 3 in the same vacinity - apart from checking the wiring how can you tell if it is working correctly ( it might be worth getting one from the wreckers and trying that anyway


Flaring is just like slipping the clutch on a manual during gear changes. The engine revs go up for a second or two as it slips but then once it has made the change it does not slip during normal driving.

The fact that it is changing too early probably means you need to adjust the throttle position sensor. That is another subject. Do a search here or buy yourself a workshop manual.

I have a picture of the kickdown servo switch but don't have anywhere to host the image. However you can't miss it. It is on a big round plate about 10 cm diameter. The plate itself is called the kickdown servo cover and is made of bakelite or brown plastic. It is held in place with a snap ring (circlip). Now, to quote from the manual: "A faulty switch can result in excessive shift shock, flaring between shifts or no shift to 2nd gear"
Testing is as follows: "(1) With the ignition switched OFF, check continuity between the switch terminal and earth. Continuity should exist. If not, replace the switch". "(2) With the engine idling in D (with handbrake applied), check continuity between the switch terminal and earth. If continuity exists, replace the switch."

The switch is only the part in the middle of the plate (kickdown servo cover) but normally you'd replace the plate and switch as one piece. I think Pick n Pay Less charged me $5 or $10 for it. There is a rubber O ring or seal behind the plate and a small amount of transmission oil may drip out when you remove it. However you don't need to drain the transmission and won't lose any significant amount of oil so long as you don't drive it with the plate off.

Edit: I found a way to host the picture:http://users.tpg.com.au/acheson1/kickdown.jpg

Thanks very much

Rich

Update Time,

Spent most of the morning going from 1 auto transmission place to another to get the kickdown servo switch checked only to find it is ok but let me tell you they leave a lot to be desired, out of the 5 places I went to (they all took it for a test drive) 4 of them said that the trans was stuffed and each gave a different reason for it being stuffed.

The last guy I took it to went about 50mtres and said TPS (I think it is tps) needs ajusting we went back to the workshop to ajust it and guess what there wasn't one on the carby, he found the other end of the plug just hanging there but nothing on the carby to connect it to.

The conclusion was that the carby was a manual one off a possibly different model and he explained that was the reason why the auto was doing what it was - so it appears that the trans is fine & only doing what it was supposed to under the circumstances.

Went to a wreckers and was lucky to find the right carby and a guy who appeared to know what he was talking about explained how to change it and what to ajust - then he said that he could fit it for an extra $85 + the bottom gasket, so I have it booked in for Monday and hopefully it will be like new again.

But it just goes to show that you can't trust one opinion you have to keep looking/checking because there is either a lot of people out there who either are rip off merchants or couldn't care less or have no knowledge of what they are doing.

Will update on Monday

Rich

great guy who looked at the carby for you

and better service at the wreckers is good to know

good luck with the project

Thanks magna buff

Yes it looks like I might be just about there (touch wood)

Don't know if I am allowed to post a link to the site but reading through the posts there appears to be lots of guys/gals looking for parts - just in case you don't know there is an online site (probably many) that the majority of wreckers in Australia sign up to and you put in what you are after and they reply to you the BIG plus is you don't have to sign up so it is painless and works very well, I have used it for years and have got great results even if I am only trying to find out prices - But you must ask for a PRICE in your request or you will just get yes I have one + a phone number.

Let me know if I am allowed to post a link to it - that is if you's are interested.

Rich

Hi All

Small problem - The wreckers can't get hold of a new Carby Base Gasket - they have tried repco - auto one ect & Mitsubishi don't have any for this model TN Magna Executive Auto Wagon build date 03/89 carby model they only sell them with a carby kit which I don't need.

Anyone know where I can get hold of just the base gasket or does anyone have one lying around (willing to pay).

I was thinking of making one but don't want to turn the replacement carby upside down (told not to) to cut it out and don't want to take the existing one off to cut one out then have to put it back on to take it to the mechanic just to replace it again

Regards
Rich

I can't really help but suggest you try Repco, Supercheap etc. yourself rather than relying on the wreckers or anyone else to do so. Something always gets lost in the translation.

If you are careful, you may be able to re-use the existing one. It is not recommended of course but if you have no other choice it is possible.

before you take off the carby
drain the coolant to below the head as coolant runs through the carby
If you dont drain the coolant ,the water goes straight into the inlet manifold and is hard to get dry again

you can make a gasket yourself
while the first carby is off the inlet manifold
use the inlet manifold as a template
its a very simple gasket to make
just the stud holes and the intake manifold holes
if you have to
you can turn over the old carby you take off the car

Man_Elite

Tried to reply to your pm but got the following error:

man_elite has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her

Rich

Thanks guys

Rich

Latest Update

Just got the car back and guess what no flaring on change up although the shift isn't what you would call smoth on occasions it feels sudden if that is an expression - no clunking or banging just not smooth and it even kicks back like an auto should so I am more than happy with the result.

But (there is always a BUT isn't there) there is a problem with intermittant surging like the car is starving for petrol and you think it is going to conk out then it will be ok again till the next time - it seems to happen when you are cruising and just feathering the excellerator up or down.

Note: It was doing the same thing with the other carby but I thought it may have been related to having the wrong carby on - so I am assuming the problem must be before the carby - I have replaced the fuel filter and will see how that goes.

Any suggestions on what else it could be??

Also it is idling way to slow - assumed the idle agustment was the screw @ about 45degrees on the inside of the throttle cable but nothing happens clockwise or anticlock wise am I in the right spot also what is the long ajuster with the knob on it, I wasn't game to touch it but am curious

Rich

Latest Update
I have replaced the fuel filter and will see how that goes.

Any suggestions on what else it could be??

Also it is idling way to slow - assumed the idle agustment was the screw @ about 45degrees on the inside of the throttle cable but nothing happens clockwise or anticlock wise am I in the right spot also what is the long ajuster with the knob on it, I wasn't game to touch it but am curious


My bet was on the fuel filter.

The idle adjustment is the long adjuster with the round plastic knurled knob on it. It may take several turns before you notice any difference. By then you've usually gone too far and have to go back the other way. Clockwise = faster, anti-clockwise = slower.

My bet was on the fuel filter.

The idle adjustment is the long adjuster with the round plastic knurled knob on it. It may take several turns before you notice any difference. By then you've usually gone too far and have to go back the other way. Clockwise = faster, anti-clockwise = slower.

Bugger I looked at that nob a dozen times and said no thats too easy - will do it in the morning when it is cold.

Wonder what the screw was that I was ajusting - (assumed the idle agustment was the screw @ about 45degrees on the inside of the throttle cable)

Hope it was nothing important

Thanks mate

Rich

Carby

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/magnabuff/carby_side_2_153.jpg

Hi magna buff

Thanks for the pic - looks like I was ajusting the Dashpot Stop Screw I am prety sure I put it back to where it was.

So which one do I need to ajust - the idle speed screw or the idle up screw and what is the difference they both sound the same to me.

Also I have been puting ethenol fuel in it - should I slap myself

Sorry for so many questions but no ask no learn

Rich

The idle speed screw. From memory, i think the idle up screw adjusts the slight speed increase that is applied at idle when the air cond. is on. However there is no question the one you want is the one with the plastic knob on. I had the same attitude to it when I first saw it: Too easy to be true!

Carby fuel filters are only a few bucks each, sounds like a blocked fuel filter

Thanks Guys

Hey Floater05 - I once painted the cars tyres + the spare does that count :)

Rich

Hi Again

Still having problems with intermittant surging like the car is starving for petrol and you think it is going to conk out then it will be ok again till the next time.

Have spoken to the previous owner and he said it has been doing it for years, he - changed the fuel filter - drained the fuel tank and changed a filter in the tank - blew out the fuel lines to the tank but it didn't fix it.

He also changed the dist cap as it had a crack in it.

So I guess if it is a fuel problem that only leaves the petrol pump left to try - would anyone have a diagram of it and advise on what to look for.

If that dosn't fix it I will have to think/look electrical any thoughts on what would give the surging like the car is starving for petrol (intermitently) on the electrical side.

Regards
Rich

you get to the fuel pump through
the floor of the wagon its under the ply on the passengerside of the spare tyre well
there is an inspection plate to unscrew
the pump only gives out low pressure
also check
that both vaccume operated dashpots are working on the carby
suck on the vaccume pots to make sure both work properly
and look for vaccume leaks (a comon problem )

check that the distributor is advancing properly

My carby wagon had a broken top gasket and used to do just as you describe

also it used to play up in hot weather and the fuel used to evaporate
even with the little expansion thinghy connected

My carby version didnt run on ethanol very well at all
even when I retarded the timing
(base timing is 13 degrees)

I had my carby ideling at 1000 rpm (auto)in neutral
it went better like that when in gear it sat at 800 rpm

I doubt it would be the pump. I had an issue with my first TM Magna. Because of the emission control system, the fuel system is sealed. As fuel was used the tank would build up a vacuum. If you stopped the engine and stood near the tank, you could hear it hissing for five or ten minutes as air slowly got in from the outside. The car used to act as if the engine was starved of fuel, with intermittent surging. Mine was so bad I was worried about the tank imploding, so I drilled a tiny hole in the fuel cap to relieve the pressure. That fixed it. Just loosening the cap would have had the same effect.

None of my other Magnas has been like that. I think the fuel cap style has changed though. I don't think my TM had the ratchet arrangement.

Also Mitsubishi issued a recall of the TM due to a carburretor issue and a slight modification was made at no cost to the owner. If I remember rightly, the symptoms were fuel starvation on long hills. However that should have all been corrected by the time the TN came out.

Thanks guys,

Am still eliminating probable causes one at a time - will keep you's posted

ps: Latest test has been that when the surging occurs I throw it into netural and give it a rev and it's like the problem wasn't there - so is it possible that the TPS or whatever isn't ajusted properly and it can't make up it's mind whether it wants to change gears or not?? - am clutching at straws here

Rich

I've been having a similar problem with my TP (carby) sedan lately. It started when I was moving from Sydney to Willow Tree. About 50km out of Sydney it started spluttering and jerking as if it was running out of fuel. I thought I was going to be stranded in the middle of the freeway miles from anywhere with a car full of household gear. I suspected a blocked fuel filter or bad load of fuel but the strange thing was that the engine temperature went down to the cold end of the gauge. Also it ran fine on full throttle.

It was at night, so could not buy a filter. I filled up at the next servo in the hope that would dilute any bad fuel. It seemed to improve slightly and eventually I got to the destination ok.

When I went back to Sydney to get the station wagon, I bought a fuel filter for the sedan. It didn't fix the problem so I also replaced the ignition leads. It seemed much better but yesterday I made a longer trip. When I started the engine to come home (with the engine still hot), I had the surging problem again very badly. However it cleared completely when I gave a good hard blip on the throttle.

I think now it is the automatic choke sticking on and making the engine run extremely rich. When it happened yesterday I could smell petrol. This would explain why it is ok when cold (it needs choke when cold) and also explain the surging and the cool running. The automatic choke is supposed to disengage within a few minutes and requires a slight blip of the throttle to disengage. Normal stop-start driving should be enough to disengage it.

Next time the surging happens, I will whip the top off the air cleaner and have a look to see whether the choke is on. If so, I will see whether a good rev of the throttle clears it. If the choke is the problem, I will have to investigate why and come up with a solution. I had problems with the auto choke when I first bought the car but it was fine after I adjusted it. The car does not get much use, so perhaps needs to be driven more.

Yours might be a similar problem. I don't think the TPS would have such a drastic effect. There's only a small range of adjustment. Not having a TPS at all would certainly stuff up the gear changes as you've already found out, but I think any mis-adjustment of the TPS would have a consistent effect - i.e. it might change up too soon or too late but it would be the same every time.

Hi, Me again

Re the surging also been having problems with the idle consistancy the tacho would jump from 500 - 1200 then drop back down to 500 and so on - so I went searching for vacume leaks - pulled off the the air filter and checked all the vacum hoses and found one that had perished and had a big split in it so I replaced it and bingo the idle is consistant at 500.

Magna buff on page 2 of the thread you have a picture of the carby -just to the left of where you have the arrow (idle setting covered by a plug) there are the 2 prongs sticking out and a plug type thing fits over the top of them and 2 vacum hoses fit to this plug (hope that makes sense) the 3rd part of the plug has a stopper in it - what is the plug for because the top vacum hose was the one I replaced - also the plug has 2 short rubbers on it that connect to the ? where the arrow is and it is also very perished but these rubbers seem to be attached to the plug so I need to replace the plug.

I took it for a drive and so far I have not had the surging like it was starving for fuel (touch wood) so could this problem also have been related to the the vacum hose.

Finally I was going to post a pic but my posting rules say I can't is that because I am two new on the forum??

Rich

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/magnabuff/emission_152.jpg

hope you can print it out and follow each pipe with a differnt colour highlighter

the plug is a three way sort of a heart shape only
two are vaccume lines are used the third is meant to be blank

More updates,

Idle surging appears to be fixed it was perished vacum hoses,thanks for the pics.

Now I have isolated the transmission thud/surge/splutter to a broken front engine mount & shock so am trying to source one from the wreckers with out having to take it out myself and then find it is no better than mine.

Have found this new engine mount on ebay would appreciate if you could check it out it's $54 + courier if ok then just have to find the shock

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-Magna-TM-TN-TP-2-6ltr-Front-Engine-Mount_W0QQitemZ360130919720QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_C ar_Parts_Accessories?hash=item53d979bd28

Rich

yes thats the front one
or you could buy one from repco

the front and rear mounts dont last long


the shock is no longer listed for first gens

what you do is find a TR or TS V6 auto
they have the very same shock mounted at the back of the motor
they just bolt in perfect

Thanks magna buff, I'd be like my engine mounts, stuffed without this forums help - but I am now obsessed with this bloody thing and am determined to get it going as good as it can - so please bear with me with all the questions.

Bugger I was in repco this morning and didn't even think to ask.

Rich

Got the front engine mount fitted, it is much better but not quite right, the shock is a genuine Mitsu part only and allthough they are still listed for the TR -TS Mitsu spare parts don't have one at any of their places.

ps; Just had another look at the shock - with the vehicle turned off and sitting slightly downhill/forward I can see about 1inch of the shock arm extended.

If I put it in drive with the motor going and handbrake on you can see the engine lift and there is around 2inch of the shock arm showing.

So what do I look for at the wreckers to tell if it is ok and will I have to lift the engine to get it off or will it come out with a bit of a tap

Rich

You'll be lucky to find a good one at the wreckers. I bought one at Pick n Pay Less and it was nearly as bad as my old one. Usually the shock itself is Ok but the rubber eyelets at the end are broken or perished. I sikaflexed it and it is as good as new. Do a search here on sikaflex and engine mounts.

The front mount is relatively easy to get out. If it is just the shock absorber you are taking off, it should come out without much effort once you remove the through bolts.

I'm surprised that a broken front mount would affect the car as badly as you say. Have you checked the rear mount too? It is a b***** to get to.

I'm surprised that a broken front mount would affect the car as badly as you say. Have you checked the rear mount too? It is a b***** to get to.

The front mount had completely collapsed all that was left of the rubber was a 1 inch width piece accross the centre where the bolt hole is and one end of that had a crack in it.

After I installed the new mount and tested by puting it into drive with the handbarake on the front of the engine still lifts at least 2 inches so that is why I am assuming the shock has gone also.

I will buy one from the wreckers and try it if it is no good I will try the sikaflexed trick on the spare one so that I have plenty of time for it to dry.

As for checking the rear mount have only done it the same way as testing the front by puting it into reverse and there is no lifting of the motor at all plus there is no shudder when you put it into reverse.

Rich

At last I can see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Took the beast into the transmission doctor this morning to get the tps settings checked - the voltage on the white plug? was showing 6.45 way to high he said so he dropped it down to 4.35 or 4.45 can't remember which - then we went for a test run and it went well the gear changes were on time but there was still a thud so he disconnected the convertor? as he thought it was grabbing ........?

The result was smooth as a babys bum considering the age of the vehicle so I am stoked

Only one thing left is to sort out a flat spot in the motor that is intermittent, so far I have changed the fuel filter - spark & dist plug leads - perished vacume hoses but the guy said it could be anything so not over confident on that one.

But 95% is way better than where I started

Rich

thats about right for a carby 4.35 or 4.45

dont worry too much about the flat spot

it would take a dyno shop with the right gear to set the carby perfect for you

glad this forum could help you sort some stuff out

Thanks guys

Ye you are right shouldnt worry about the flat spot - but i still think it's a vacum leak somewhere, may find it one day

All your help has been muchly appreciated

Rich