G'day guys,

I have read in another thread that manual convertions for a 3.5 cost around 1000-1300 (not sure exactly how much). Does this include the gear box as well as all those other nessassary parts? Also they speak of "tricking" the ECU. They said something like make it think it is in netrual. Does this damage the ECU in anyway? If for some reason I wanted to switch back to the auto box, would the tricked ECU be able to used with it and could converting back to an auto not be done at all? Also mine has cruise control and I don't want to lose that feature. Would the cruise control work with the manual box or would the cruise then be unusable?

Thanks in advance:happy: .

search for manual conversion... all of these questions have been answered.

in short, less than $1500 for a full conversion probably wouldn't include the 'box. you trick the inhibitor switch to think the car is in N so it will start, but then you use a relay off a clutch switch so cruise will still work.

if you ever go back, all wiring will need to be reversed.

the ECU will not be harmed in any way.

cheers,
.wook

Thanks for that wookiee, I will consider it but for the time being, I'll go between using my tiptronic and normal auto positions. Although this mod sounds like it would be extremely complicated and I don't know if I'd bother my dad with it. I'd also have to save up for it. At this point in time it would be the least priority for mods as I have to save up for a suspension kit and sports exhaust yet. :)

Speak to Mal (MadMagna) or Mark (Sharkie), Mal did the manual conversion on Mark's TL, may even have been the first TL/TW manual conversion.

If you want some details let me know, I did the TL for Mark, have everything but cruise working, just need to sort our some wiring to get cruise up and running when I have a few spare minutes.

The TL / W is a very different car to do, however even on the TJ you can get around the cruise without using a relay by making the set up replicate the Manual

Thank you for your info Madmagna. I will let u know if I get the money and if I want to go through with the conversion. I'd also want to keep the cruise as when I go on the highway I want to be able to not have to rest my foot there the whole time because it gets numb. Went on only a 1-2 hour trip on the highway in my old commodore with no cruise and jeeez my foot got numb and that was only a short trip!

I was at the auctions today and I saw a 1997 Magna TF exc 3.0L manual (it was in a salvage auction but had barely any damage and sold for $150!). I was thinking I should have got it but am unsure of a couple of things.

1. It had 237000 km so don't know how good condition the drivetrain is in. How long do these boxes normally last without a re-con?
2. If I were to use that gear box, what is the difference between the 3.0L manual gear box and the 3.5L (could someone give me the ratios so I can compare please?)
3. Could I use the 3.0L's ecu in my 3.5L so I wouldn't have to "trick" my ecu and would using the 3.0L's ecu reduce the power in mine.
4. How could I keep my cruise control? Could I attach it to the 3.0L's ecu or trick mine?

Thanks in advance :)

1. I've seen one near 300,000km with no dramas
2. First gear in the 3L gearbox is slightly shorter, everything else bolts up the same
3. In theory you COULD use it but it would reduce the power a bit
4. Better off just tricking yours. As far as I know all you have to do is join two wires so that the ECU thinks that its in Neutral.

For starters, you can not use the 3.0 ecu in the TL/W as they are a totally different system and that is just for beginners, you cant even use a TE/F ECU in a TH onwards

You are only telling the ecu the car is in N so the ECU could not care less

The cruise I am working on at the moment for these cars, they are again very different to even the TJ, will let you know when I come up with a fix

The 3.0 box is fine in a 3.5, I have one in my TE with a 3.5 that has had a few little things done to it with no issues, you will be about 500rpm higher in revs at 100 and need to easy in first especially in the wet if you dont want to spin wheels all the time lol

Aside from that, the intermediate shaft is different, I would need to get you to send it down so I can mod it for you.

Box will bolt in, if you have the 5speed tippy, you will need pass side drive shaft but the drivers side shaft will fit the manual intermediate shaft no worries

Thank you both for your fast responces. And to answer your question madmagna mine's a 4 speed tippy. And you say it's just a wire in the ecu? So it could be done DIY? And with the making it think it's in neutral thing, even when in gear does it do this?? Atm my 4sp does 1950rpm at 100km/h, with the 3.0 box, will it do about 2450rpm or so? Or is that 500rpm higher than the 3.5 manual box? And if I wanted for some reason one day, could I convert it back to an auto?

no, he means it will rev higher than the 3.5L manual 'box.

which will be something like 3200rpm at 100km/h.

3200rpm? Jeez thats a bit high. My old 1990 model 1.6Litre N13 Nissan pulsar did 3000rpm at 100km/h and I thought that was bad! Dunno, maybe I shouldn't be such a scab and just get a 3.5L manual box. But idk, the older magna's are a lot cheaper (as I said in my last post, today I probably could have got a '97 TF magna 3.0L for about $200-$300).

manual 3.5L cars sit on about 2700-2800 at 100km/h. that's the nature of the beast.

Yeah I'd have to say that my limit with 100km/h would have to be about 2700rpm-2800rpm. I wouldn't want it to rev any higher than that at 100km/h. Cause mine atm only does about 1900-2000rpm at 100. So does that mean the manual has a lower top speed than the auto? And if so, how much lower? And is it really worth the extra revs just for a manual transmission?

Oh yeah, i just read a 1998 motor magazine and it recons the TF magna sports 3.0L manual does 220km/h. I think thats plenty, I mean, I don't think the auto in mine would go much faster than that. Maybe all of 5-15km/h more and it's not like I'd ever do those sort of speeds anyway. But am stil worried about the high revs at 100km/h. This will probably make the highway consumption around 9.5L/100km rather than about 7.5-8.5L. But the around town consumption will probably be less (atm the city consumption is around 11.3L/100km). Also, that high reving (especially when I get my sports exhaust) is going to be annoying just like it was in my commodore. Even though its 5sp manual only did about 2100-2200rpm at 100 in 5th, because of the exhaust it was very annoying. Sounded like a mooing cow the whole way. :P

3rd gens are limited to 220km/h by the ECU. given enough power and space, theoretically a manual 3.5 should do 240km/h at 6000 rpm, whilst a 4sp auto would do about 320km/h at the same revs. realistically, 240km/h is about all you'd get out of either. unless you plan a trip to Bonneville...!

why are you interested in top speed anyway? you planning on taking the car to the track?

Maybe one day. But u know when u say to people "My magna is fast", then they say "oh yeah, what's it's top speed?" and you say something crappy like 190km/h it's kinda a joke but since it does about 220km/h that sounds fast. But I hate how some people who judge a car's power on its top speed, you need to judge that on its 0-100km/h time or its 0-400m time or something. I think my old commo did about that cause I saw an 4sp auto VT berlina wagon (mine was a exc sedan manual 5sp) on youtube doing 220km/h but was at like 5750rpm which was over its redline of 5500rpm and the commo's rev limiters are at 6000rpm but judging by what it was doing, it also had a top speed limiter of 220km/h as well.

Top Speed is rubbish, even an old daddo will get up over 180 given enough distance, this has been proven here in Melb at Calder

Mine has the 3.0 box, 3.5 engine, in October I did a trip from Melb, Adl, Waikeree, Mildura to Melb. All with a trailer and from Waikeree back to Melb had an engine in the trailer. I averaged 10.1 constantly with the trailer!!!

I then drove to Syd to get my new car, took my car up (sedan at the time) and on the freeway, at 110 on cruise control was in high 7's and sometimes low 8's depending on how many big hills I had to go up. This is far better than any auto.

As for revs, I think from memory at 110 I am doing 3200 so 100 would be around 3000 but this is from memory as I really do not take much notice of the RPM

As for the wiring, you can cheat and leave the old inhibitor switch tied up in the engine bay and select N or P for that matter, this way it will start and drive properly. You can then easilly change back to Auto one day if you really want to, not that I could see a reason why go to all that work just to sell a car

Yeah true mate, I'll probably keep the magna untill I'm about 23yo or so. Then I'll probably get either a HSV Maloo V8 or a Mazda BT-50 3.0L turbo diesel 4x4 (depends on if I end up liking 4wds more, but in this point in time, it'll probably be the Maloo). I love my magna and if I do get a manual convertion, it is going to be even better. So u can leave the old inhibitor switch in there? If so thats good. Also when u figure out the cruise on the TL's, let me know so I can go ahead and do the convertion cause at this point in time, I probably wouldn't as I'd miss my cruise control too much. So with the cruise control, is it hooked up to the ecu too? I thought all the cruise control did was hold the engine at a certain amount of revs.

Thanks for all your help guys. I sort of regret not getting that manual 97 TF now but oh well, there'll probably more. I might even be able to get my hands on a 3.5L manual box! (And yes that was the cost of the whole car at the auction for the price of course in my other post. I honestly couldn't believe my eyes!! That lucky b* got it for $150. I could have paid for that myself!)

Other issue you will have is the speedo, I do have a fix for this but it does involve cutting some wires under the dash so these would need to be rectified if you go back to Auto

Mits in all their cheap assness removed the speed sensor from the trans so this needs to be re wired into the car as well

And all the fixes are reversalable and won't harm the car's ecu or engine or anything? Also, does anyone know the gear ratios of the 3.5L and the 3.0L boxes so I can compare them etc?

Mate, even if someone can be bothered to look them up, it will really tell you little

There are differences in both the diff and first gear

You can try using the search button, I am sure it has been covered somewhere here,it will take you the same time to search as it will anyone else to do it for you

Also, if you do anything properly it can be reversed with little issue and no offense, if you are so worried about your ecu and engine, perhaps dont mod the car and leave it stock. Doing these mods does not in any way work with the ecu, the term "trick" the ecu is actually incorrect, what you are actually doing is replicating the manual set up so as to over ride the inhibitor switch and eliminate the need for the car to be in park to start. Ecu could not care less what gear the car is in, it is the start curcuit that prevents the car from cranking when in gear, not the ecu

Thank you very much for all your help. Make sure you let me know when u know what to do with the cruise so I can start looking for gear boxes (it'll end up being a whole car probably from the auctions). I will probably leave the inhibitor switch in and switch it to neutral. Anyway, what did u think of that '97 TF executive manual for $150!! Pretty awesome deal? If I were to have got it, the bid probably would have raised to about $300, but I still could have afforded it.

Oh yeah, with the 3.0L man 'boxes, I've heard that they are weaker... Does this mean if one day I wanted to flog my car to show off I'd break the gear box or would it be ok to do this every now and again with the 3.0 'box? Also, with the first gear being closer on the 3.0L 'box, could you give me a comparison to the 3.5L 'box like what speeds do both boxes do in first and second (in this format 3.5L 'box- 1st- 65km/h, 2nd- 105km/h and 3.0L 'box- 1st- 55km/h and 2nd- 100km/h). Thanks.

Oh yeah, with the 3.0L man 'boxes, I've heard that they are weaker... Does this mean if one day I wanted to flog my car to show off I'd break the gear box or would it be ok to do this every now and again with the 3.0 'box? Also, with the first gear being closer on the 3.0L 'box, could you give me a comparison to the 3.5L 'box like what speeds do both boxes do in first and second (in this format 3.5L 'box- 1st- 65km/h, 2nd- 105km/h and 3.0L 'box- 1st- 55km/h and 2nd- 100km/h). Thanks.

1) They are not "weaker" They are the same box just different 1st gear.
2) if you wanted to flog your car and you break your gearbox, that is your fault for being a tosser, not the gearboxes fault.
3) Your obviously gonna do it "now and again" so I dont think it makes a difference really.

Mate, as stated above, if you want ratio's do a search, dont expect us to do your hard work for you

Again, as stated above many times, you keep speaking top speed, if that is an issue, go buy a DB9 or Bugatti. I dont know about you personally but we do not drive around in 1st or 2nd gear and personally I stopped bragging to my mates that my car does 90 is first gear when I turned about 12

Now, as for box being weaker, any box will eventually break if you mis treat it, again as I have stated above many times, I have a 3.0 box in my 3.5, same cams as you have and my box is fine and hell, I spend half my time towing trailers and boats around too

Another member of these forums, one who knows only how to go flat out, has the 3.5 box but also ralliart cams, extractors, CAI as well as a host of ther things and guess what, he still has a box going well as although he drives hard, he respects the limits on his drive train

If you're that worried about whether you'll like the manual or not, why don't you go take 1 for a test drive. Will save yourself thousands if in the event you didn't like it and wanted to revert back to auto.