Hey guys.

Driving home last night, my KH verada decided it was going to turn off. The engine died and both the "TCL" and "TCL off" lights came on. After pulling over, the car did not want to start. The car will crank, but will not turn over.

With well appreciated advice from Madmagna, I have checked ECU fuses, and the ECU and Fuel pump relays with no success.

My mechanic came around this morning and has discovered that the spark plugs are not firing at all. So he suggested it could be the Crank Angle Sensor. After reading a few things here, I suspect it could also be an immobilser issue. My mechanic is arranging for an auto-electrician to come out and check out for any error codes.

The "TCL" and "TCL off" are still on when trying to start the car.

Has any encountered a similar problem, or got any suggestions?

my tcl lights flashed when one of my vacuum hoses came of, why dont you check them, see if they are loose or leaking. Not sure if this would cause the car to stall but it could possibly do so... if it is them its saving you same money, no harm.

my tcl lights flashed when one of my vacuum hoses came of, why dont you check them, see if they are loose or leaking. Not sure if this would cause the car to stall but it could possibly do so... if it is them its saving you same money, no harm.

Thanks Lenda - already checked all vacuum hoses. No Cigar.

The "TCL" and "TCL off" are still on when trying to start the car.


These lights stay on until the car starts, so may not be related to your issue.

These lights stay on until the car starts, so may not be related to your issue.

Good point - Something u don't really notice until something goes wrong!

Thanks.

What ever the issue is, there was an issue with the ECU relay as when you first called you had not check engine light which tells me you had no ECU running.

Swapping the relay did fix this part of the issue, something has clearly happened that looks like it may have dropped several circuits.

Over the phone, you checked the fuses and the relays, to be honest, without looking at the car it would be impossible to diagnose over the net as you have now checked the main items.

You may also have immob issues, may have crank angle issue as well however I can not see this being related with the dead relay and thus either something has gone wrong that has killed both or the issue is related somehow.

Did you try the relays from your car in your dads car to see if they run his, although once disturbed the relay may correct itself as you will get burn on the points of the relay that may fall off once the relay is moved and bumped around

Hey Mal,

The relays I pulled from mine, I put in my dad's KJ and his car fired up with no issues.

So it seems that the relays seem to be fine.

So, I'm suspecting Crank angle or the immobiliser.

I am currently trying to get a hold of an auto-elec to scan the car and check any issues.

Alrighty...

So the auto-elec just left.

There is no 5 volt reference going from the ECU to the dizzy.

Checked power to ECU and all is fine - So the ECU is at fault.

Gonna try source a spare ECU and try it. Hopefully this resolves the issue.

Going to check immobiliser too...

Worth checking the ECU capacitors as well as the ignition barrel key antenna connections as these are known to occasionally cause problems. Where abouts in VIC are you?

Cheers

Worth checking the ECU capacitors as well as the ignition barrel key antenna connections as these are known to occasionally cause problems. Where abouts in VIC are you?

Cheers

Well, I've had the convenience of having my dad's KJ to test stuff.

I tried disconnecting the immobilisier connecter from the ignition barrel - it created the same issue of not starting, however the 5v reference is PRESENT in the engine bay - so its NOT the immobiliser or ignition barrel.

How do i check ECU capacitors?

I'm in Braybrook (Western subs)

To check your vehicle using your dads KJ vehicle as parts you will need to fit all the following:
ECU;
BEM matched to ECU (otherwise car won't start); and
Ignition barrell & key matched to the above (otherwise car won't start).

To remove an ECU & check capacitors:

Disconnect battery, remove the ECU from the vehicle, remove circuit board and check electrolytic capacitors for bulging, leakage, discoloration. If unsure of what the capacitors looks like go check out either a Jaycar or Dick Smith catalogue web site.

I'm in Mornington

Cheers

To check your vehicle using your dads KJ vehicle as parts you will need to fit all the following:
ECU;
BEM matched to ECU (otherwise car won't start); and
Ignition barrell & key matched to the above (otherwise car won't start).

To remove an ECU & check capacitors:

Disconnect battery, remove the ECU from the vehicle, remove circuit board and check electrolytic capacitors for bulging, leakage, discoloration. If unsure of what the capacitors looks like go check out either a Jaycar or Dick Smith catalogue web site.

I'm in Mornington

Cheers

Yeh, Madmagna already recommended this setup to me.

Already opened the ECU when the Auto-elec was here - no physical signs of damage.

Mate, did you get the ECU, BEM and Key and plonk it in the KJ, that way you will see if it runs

Also perhaps do the reverse in the KH with the KJ stuff, no need to mount gear, just plug it in and see if you can get it to fire up

Mate, did you get the ECU, BEM and Key and plonk it in the KJ, that way you will see if it runs

Also perhaps do the reverse in the KH with the KJ stuff, no need to mount gear, just plug it in and see if you can get it to fire up

Mate, if I only I had time! lol...

Will certainly try do it over the weekend after Christmas is over.

Could be the microswitch on the ignition key that disables the immobiliser. If it doesnt disable immobiser, it doesnt do anything.

Could be the immobiliser or other module down there under the dash coming out of its socket, or some connector coming apart.

The Microswitch DOES NOT disable the immob, it is there for the TJ and other BEM systems where you lock the doors with the key in, they unlock

Can not be the immob either, I have covered this already and shown Onky that once running that the car will continue to run post the immob being taken out alltogether.

The Immob will prevent start up when not connected or wrong key however once running the vehicle will continue to run

Something has gone wrong within the ignition system, initially the ECU did not give the 5v refrence to the dist, after having been taken out and moved arond it then gave the refrence. I would say a dry joint there perhaps. Now with the new ECU there is a refrence but still no start so perhaps the dist ignition module or the camshaft sensor which in turn may have been the reason the ECU stopped in the first place

Mal,

Would either of those problems show up on a system scan?

Reason I ask, is when the auto-elec came out originally, the car was showing NO error codes.

He's contacting me tomorrow, so i guess we'll wait and see... :headbange

They should but then again your check engine light should also remain on

If you bring it here, I will then get my "special" ecu and plug that in for testing, I should then be able to start at the dist and test systems to get it up and running

They should but then again your check engine light should also remain on

If you bring it here, I will then get my "special" ecu and plug that in for testing, I should then be able to start at the dist and test systems to get it up and running

Could it be the ignition coil, perhaps?

Okay, so updates:

Plugged in the replacement ECU and same problem still present.

However, the replacement ECU is now showing a flashing "TCL OFF" light.

Auto-elec came out again this morning and checked for errors - no errors showing up on neither the original or replacement ECU.

Car is now being taken to the workshop for further diagnosis.

:headbange :headbange :headbange :headbange :headbange :headbange

If you have no luck there feel free to get it over here bud and I will have a proper look for you, will be much easier with the car here

Thanks Mal, really appreciate it.

Bye bye car... :(

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7802/100108101409.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/i/100108101409.jpg/)

Had the same thing come up on a KH Verada after I fitted a temporary ECU (non TCL TJ unit), BEM, key assembly in order to get the engine started & check the transmission etc. The beeping TCL off warning & flashing light muted itself after about 10 minutes. Didn't road test the vehicle as it was unregistered.

i dont know much about magna engines but do they have a CAS? i know this is a massive problem in RB engines and i had similar problems in my VL would dirve fine till it got up to running temp then would shut down? when it was cold would run and no errors on the system but then would heat up and dead...

might be worth a try?

i dont know much about magna engines but do they have a CAS? i know this is a massive problem in RB engines and i had similar problems in my VL would dirve fine till it got up to running temp then would shut down? when it was cold would run and no errors on the system but then would heat up and dead...

might be worth a try?

Car hasnt fired up for 2 weeks mate. So I dont think so.

Had the same thing come up on a KH Verada after I fitted a temporary ECU (non TCL TJ unit), BEM, key assembly in order to get the engine started & check the transmission etc. The beeping TCL off warning & flashing light muted itself after about 10 minutes. Didn't road test the vehicle as it was unregistered.

That is quite normal and if you tried to drive it you would have found it all would have come back on again soon enough as well

This ECU is a direct flash of Onky's old ECU so the data is identical

Okay, so updates:

Plugged in the replacement ECU and same problem still present.

However, the replacement ECU is now showing a flashing "TCL OFF" light.

Auto-elec came out again this morning and checked for errors - no errors showing up on neither the original or replacement ECU.

Car is now being taken to the workshop for further diagnosis.

:headbange :headbange :headbange :headbange :headbange :headbange

Be interesting to see what the workshop comes up with.

Ah...Interesting, my car could not fire up since Christmas and only just got it to work 2 days ago. My issue was the transponder signal is weak and they remove the key rubber seal around the key entry area and it works immediately!

Ah...Interesting, my car could not fire up since Christmas and only just got it to work 2 days ago. My issue was the transponder signal is weak and they remove the key rubber seal around the key entry area and it works immediately!

I've tried both keys, and the thing is, this would not cause the car to shutoff whilst driving - it would only prevent it from starting.

Hard for me to comment. I had once on an occasion got shut down when driving. I never thought much about it and assume was the LPG tuning.

My recent event had some test indicating the immobalizer. And was later found out that the transponder is getting weak and when remove the rubber seal everything was ok.

Well keep us updated. I like to know what actually happened in your case.

How about coil packs?

The coil assemblies etc are built into the distributor

The coil unit is built into the distributor

You mean Coil Packs??

Problem has been solved - Called today and was told the crank angle sensor had died - hence no spark and no injection spark.

Car should be back on the road in a few days. :)

You mean Coil Packs??

I hope you are smoking dope dude as no 3rd gens ever came with coil packs. The MIVEC models I THINK had them, but all SOHC motors I know of in a Mistu run a dizzy.

onky - Yep, The sparky was asking me if I have a spare...I know its here somewhere..

I have a brand new CAS here, is brand new and never been used

If you want to, we can do a deal as they are quite expensive, I will get the ECU back from you and you can have this newbie.

Alrighty guys,

The problem was a bolt that came loose off the belt covers and damaged the crank angle sensor and the timing belt.

Both were replaced.

Car is back on the road - however, the TCL OFF light is now flashing.

It only comes on when I give the car some juice and accelerate to around 60-70km/h and then it keeps flashing until i turn off the car.

I took the car back to the auto-elec today and now an error code came up: "TPS/APS"

After clearing the codes, the TCL OFF light turns off.

However, after unplugging the Scanner, the problem comes back, but the error code will not show again.

I know they removed the air intake system to check the distributor, and obviously everything else to get to the timing belt and CAS.

Anyone got any ideas, thoughts?

Maybe they have dislodged or incorrectly replaced a vacuum hose while checking dizzy etc?

I recently had the flashing "TCL Off" light, after driving thru a flooded creek crossing....... had me worried so turned TCL off manually at the cluster and just kept driving (had to get back to work from parents' farm). Once the car was re-started, no recurrence of problem. However, while at work that evening I did some Search in here about the TCL light.... threads suggested vacuum hoses in several instances.

I'd suggest having a bit of a look for unconnected vacuum hoses at dizzy/throttle-body/cruise etc, and if nothing is obviously disconnected or leaking - then dive into the workshop manual and check the routing of vac hoses methodically. It was the most-suggested and easy-fix of the causes that I read about in here.

Hey guys,

The car has been at the auto-elecs all last week.

Called me today and told me the TPS is not giving out correct voltage therefore the TCL error on the dash.

The weird thing was is this problem was never there before they changed the Crank Angle Sensor.

Any idea what could have caused this problem to appear after the car was repaired?

Do you guys think it could have been something they did wrong?