Anyone else having trouble starting in the Hot weather?

I do know my Battery is on the way out but it seems exacerbated by the heat

did a 1.5 hr drive pulled over went in a shop for 20 mins and came back turned the key nothing! then a hesitant fire and then nothing! stopped waited again and then fired very lumpy

first time it has happened but since then it is happening more consistantly

I will get a new battery and see if it resolves it

maybe try swapping your plugs out- they might have fouled

car runs smooth once started

Once you turned the key and then nothing.... Did it sound like it was cranking??????

A lot of older cars and more modern cars, the fuel can vapourize in the lines and they wont fire til its cleared. Quite common in the heat. It has happened to me a bit with our heat. ( By the way, with our heavy humidity, the A/C in the 380 and the TW dump water like a horse after a 1/2 hour drive )
I leave the ignition on for 10-20 seconds allowing the fuel pump to run, and crank after that. Don't know if that s your issue, or the correct answer, but it works for me.

Yeah Sh00T I leave it in acc for 10 seconds before turning the key

I will just keep an eye on it ATM

Warren, acc will not turn the fuel pump on. You need to switch to "on" for that.

acc on same shit one before ZOOM ZOOM LOL

Not same shit! Completely different circuit! Acc is for sound sus and 12v sockets. On is for fuel pump and starter motor!

I know I typed the wrong thing SHEESH

LOL

Doesn't matter with the 380 fuel pump anyway, the regulator is built into the pump assembly & the pump only runs as required. No need to sit for 10 to 20 seconds with the key on as it takes a couple of seconds if that to prime. Trust me I've had mine in pieces when installing the blower, been there done that.

So the 380s arent very reliable then?

not at all. they are very reliable cars, its just if anyone has a problem they post it up on here, so it seems a lot worse than it is. IIRC other than the back windows falling out, the OEM battery's all dying the same way (very suddenly), the lack of rear head room, FWD (if you can call it a problem, I wouldn't.. taking off is iffy for novice drivers with all that power) and the ticking noise the engine makes which means either the camshafts loose or you use cheap motor oil or its cold.. the car is close to the best thing most 380 owners have ever owned.

In comparison to many other cars out there that have lived such a short production period there aren't any real or serious problems with it.

In fact other than the time my battery died, my car has started first time, every time. (Ive only had mine for about 8 months however shes done 87K)

I may be a bit bias (possibly even misinformed, do correct me if Im wrong).. xD

Just to help defend the 380 reputation, I've had mine since a few thousands k's (ex demo), July 2006, and is now 60,000. In that time I haven't changed the battery yet, though I've charged it twice. The windows haven't broken (yet) and I've not had any engine problems (ie no start, noises, or CEL, etc). I can't recall all the main problems as listed around these threads, but I've been very fortunate not to suffer from any of them. I'd have to say its the most reliable car I've owned, and if they were still in production I'd definately buy a second one soon to replace my old Commodore.

Fuel filter ok?

Fuel filter and pump are all in one
I think it maybe either battery or a vapour lock type of issue as on cool days no such issues

As for 380 reliability best aussie built car so far

if you are on toyota,ford ,holden forums you would have many people complaining about issues with the car why? Because it is a forum dedicated to that make

I had my choice between any large car and drove and researched for 6 months and still came to the conclusion that the 380 was the best all round and my mrs who wanted to get another toyota agreed

Even some of the Euros (VW especially) have more issues than what we have seen on the 380

UPDATE:

It is Vapour lock due to heat soak

Battery was checked and was in very good condition as was the alternator

happened yesterday when ambient was round 45c

yet when I jumped in once the temp dropped later on (22c ambient) started first go

will keep an eye on the battery but because I am using LEDs for many lighting solutions I was told that this will extend the battery due to less strain???? CC is always on though HAHAHAHA

Time for another rant...
The last few days in Sydney have been 35-40 degrees and on Friday when I picked up my son (daycare) there were a few stop and starts, no problems! (Even test-wound the windows again). I'm driving in that heat, and put the aircon on full auto - in 5-10 minutes the inside temp is beautiful, yet engine never struggled once; I had as much power at my foot as if the aircon wasn't even on. And after about 20mins, I'm cranking the temp up a bit (got too cold). Very impressed!

UPDATE:

It is Vapour lock due to heat soak

Battery was checked and was in very good condition as was the alternator

happened yesterday when ambient was round 45c

yet when I jumped in once the temp dropped later on (22c ambient) started first go

will keep an eye on the battery but because I am using LEDs for many lighting solutions I was told that this will extend the battery due to less strain???? CC is always on though HAHAHAHA

Try taking the engine cover off.

Try taking the engine cover off.


Just lift the bonnet.

Anyone else having trouble starting in the Hot weather?

I do know my Battery is on the way out but it seems exacerbated by the heat

did a 1.5 hr drive pulled over went in a shop for 20 mins and came back turned the key nothing! then a hesitant fire and then nothing! stopped waited again and then fired very lumpy

first time it has happened but since then it is happening more consistantly

I will get a new battery and see if it resolves it


You stopped after 1.5 hours, the engine would have been as hot as possible.
Then parked on a hot bitumen surface with heat rising.
The bonnet trapping a lot of heat.

When an engine is stopped after a run the heat actually keeps building up for a while.



A lot of cars have an automatic fan running long after you have stopped for this reason.

In any event the battery is to blame....and not necessarily faulty.

It's because the lead and zinc in the battery have a positive temperature coefficient.

(resistance in ohms increases with temperature)

It would probably be well over 65c degrees under the bonnet after a few minutes.


Do you still have the insulating cover around the battery?



.

It is weird

I will lift the bonnet up next time I have an issue

But priming it in ON lets the rad fans circulate the air which then lets the car fire up???

I know this is not an isolated incident as Chris (KIF on MCA) is having the same issue with starting

Mitsiman is trying to say there is a larger problem yet it is only happening on HOT/HUMID days so Vapour lock symptom seems to be

could it even be the ECU in a safe guard mode??

Needs more diagnosing me thinks.

Vapour lock is along shot me thinks....I would give the design team abit more credit....after all it gets damned hot in Adelaide :)

it only happened in the heat/humidity

TBH not really fussed it has not given me much grief
it is going in to Mitsibishi next week to get the shifter fixed and the rear LED brake light sorted out so speak to them about it then

Well it did it today

went out on a drive to get the joey to sleep drove through some inclement weather were outside temps dropped from 30c down to 16c in the space of 2 mins

pulled over after 2 hrs of driving to feed the little one and temps were back up to 30c

tried to start the car and nothing

tried again and slight turn over but no ignition

Lucky I parked across from a supercheap and picked up a jump pack and fired it up and away I went

Did you have the battery looked at?

I did and they said it was fine but that was a couple of weeks ago

I am just going to get a new one after it goes to misti for some things

This was the kick in the butt I needed to call them and sort it out

Sounds like water (condensation) is causing a short circuit somewhere that either discharges the battery or shorts the alternator so you end up draining the battery (not recharging). Check the battery contacts, the contacts on the alternator and starter motor. Is there any condensation under the fuse cover when it happens ?

I have added to this issue but I get EXACTLY the same problem when the ambient temp or the engine is hot.
I wait a couple of secs before starting and everything is fine.:nuts:

Dropped a CEL after starting rough

This is getting more serious methinks

Would Mits have a better idea what the issue is, now that they can hook up the laptop to check ECU re CEL?

Dropped a CEL after starting rough

This is getting more serious methinks

When I was having the rough idle it turned out to be a vaccuum leak which was fixed when I refitted the blower. It was throwing a CEL to do with MAP/Baro circuit out of range or something like that. Before I fixed it myself Mitsubishi replaced my MAP sensor but that didn't help.

going into mitsi on Friday

Was told need BOTH keys for the car

going into mitsi on Friday

Was told need BOTH keys for the car


what in the hell for?

God knows

but I rattled off all the niggly things that need to be fixed

Trans shifting into drive in sports mode instead of next gear
Rear LED tail light rattling in the lip spoiler
resonance at 100km/h coming from the left of the car
Ticking like a diesel engine hot or cold
poor fuel consumption

he tried to get me to have its 75K kms service too I said that oil had being change at 70k so no need

I just hope they do the right thing by me

I dont have alot of faith in Dealers although the dealer I am taking it to did my subi and it was pretty good even gave me a lift home

Intresting actually my fuel consumption has blown out to 13.9L/100kms no change in driving conditions.... and is ticking like a diesel.; Just had the 60 000km service and nothing was identified.. I would be intrested to see how you go mecha..

Drove to the inlaws in the Riverland today about 120k,s. Drove on the ferry, switched off.
Got to the other side and wouldnt start. Turned over as usual 'phut phut phut'.
waited couple of secs. Fired up straight away. Not a good feeling when you have 6 cars behind you:wtf:
Probably the 3rd or fourth time in 12 months

its getting out of hand now DEAD when I tried to start it today after work and then come home from work and stopped to get some fuel and DEAD again

Thank god for battery packs

it will rested til it goes to mitsi just

Hi Ladies and Gents,

I had a similar situation to this, in my situation road side assistance was called and they could not find anything wrong.

They even stated that the battery was fine and tested ok on their equipment.

The following week I took it to the dealer and by pure chance they had a travelling battery technician visit at the same time as my car was in being examined.

The battery technician used his more advanced tools and found that a cell in the battery was dead.

It was explained to me that the 380 has very tight thresholds on battery voltage and current, and if the ECU finds that anything is out of range will stop the engine from firing but will allow it to turn over giving the perception that the battery is fine.

It has now been 8 months since the battery was changed and I have not had any more starting problems. Given that I have a series III 380 my battery was only 2 years old at the time.

Hop this helps.

This could be the 'answer'
I am going to get my battery checked tomorrow.

the mitsi batteries have always been marginal....especially if the car spent time just sitting around at tonsley.

all my magnas had early battery failure...and always the red triple diamond battery was under the bonnet

the mitsi batteries have always been marginal....especially if the car spent time just sitting around at tonsley.

all my magnas had early battery failure...and always the red triple diamond battery was under the bonnet

Gotta agree here. My Ralliart had a battery change before 66,000kms when I bought it. Having said that, my fiances Lancer battery lasted 9 years, so go figure.

Ok well it is still going to Mitsi but I will go to Battery guys down the road and see tomorrow

Hi Ladies and Gents,

I had a similar situation to this, in my situation road side assistance was called and they could not find anything wrong.

They even stated that the battery was fine and tested ok on their equipment.

The following week I took it to the dealer and by pure chance they had a travelling battery technician visit at the same time as my car was in being examined.

The battery technician used his more advanced tools and found that a cell in the battery was dead.

It was explained to me that the 380 has very tight thresholds on battery voltage and current, and if the ECU finds that anything is out of range will stop the engine from firing but will allow it to turn over giving the perception that the battery is fine.

It has now been 8 months since the battery was changed and I have not had any more starting problems. Given that I have a series III 380 my battery was only 2 years old at the time.

Hop this helps.

The missus experiences hard starting ATM, and getting worse. And we have a CEL as well.

Did you get a CEL at all?

I got one on Thursday night

I disconnected the battery and plugged the pack on the battery

I then connected the car and started with pack still connected

CEL disappeared

The missus experiences hard starting ATM, and getting worse. And we have a CEL as well.

Did you get a CEL at all?

Hi Shoot, sorry I should have noted in my post above. About 2 days prior to calling out road side assistance we had a CEL after hard starting.

When we eventually got it started and then drove for about 20 Km, the CEL disappeared all by itself, no need for a dealer reset for this type of CEL.

It was explained to me that you should always return the key to the off position before trying another start to avoid this type of CEL.

Well,well,well
Had my car in for new rotors and pads today and asked for the battery to be checked.
Got a phone call to say on last legs and needs replacing.
Gave them the ok so will monitor any starting issues especially when hot.

just leaving to pick up my new battery

I hope this fixes it

Keep us all posted as will I
By the way I had an RAA 600cca fitted $170
Doing well this month
Kings lows, new front rotors, brakes and battery
Need to save now for twin exhaust:nuts:

Century HiPO $145

instant change in the car will be going on a run tomorrow and that is going to be the litmus test

Century HiPO $145

instant change in the car will be going on a run tomorrow and that is going to be the litmus test

What instant change did you notice?

Fuel econ was lower plus was not putting/lumpy

shifts were stronger, smoother and instant

'krikey!"

could just be placebo but I know the figures for econ have dropped definately

could just be placebo but I know the figures for econ have dropped definately

Could this be to do with the Transmission ECU reset when the battery is removed?

Amazing. Just shows that electronics rule the day with modern cars.

Amazing. Just shows that electronics rule the day with modern cars.

Going back to 1991. The D has almost more electronic gizmos then most cars today..

Could this be to do with the Transmission ECU reset when the battery is removed?


nope as the power was not taken away from the car it was replaced with the power switched to another source while the battery guy fitted it he commented on the music in the stacker was pretty cool

Also we really do not know if that is the correct ecu reset procedure either:ninja:

just came back from a run which saw me do mixed cycle down to Nowra and back 2 hrs there and back

I have done this two weeks ago and got 13.9L/100km

today I have it down to 11.2/100km

ambient temp was higher today and had a headwind

cruising I have notice massive difference trans will drop a gear quicker and does not flare out tippy seems to have sorted it self out a touch too

*These are my OBSERVATIONS in my car I dont expect people to have the same results and there is NO SCIENCE behind it, these results are not quantifiable by DYNO or any other piece of equipment *

*These are my OBSERVATIONS in my car I dont expect people to have the same results and there is NO SCIENCE behind it, these results are not quantifiable by DYNO or any other piece of equipment *

:dancin: lol

surely not from just a change of battery?

This doesnt make any sense...surely a change of the battery wouldnt do this? There was no loss of power so nothing got reset...

I am confused...:kb:

You know i am a bit pedantic about my car and I am as surprised

Idle is SO much nicer and so is pickup

Econ was a surprise but I can definitely confirm that as I was having RUBBISH ECON compared to many of you guys

The mind boggles on this one.
I will take my new battery for a spin on weekend and see if any noticeable difference.
My fuel economy has never been great. about 13/14 around town and high 9's on a run.
I do have a VERY heavy right foot though:woot:

New 380 performance mod:

Deep cycle heavy duty battery! :P










- I don't doubt you Mecha - just a humour injection.

New 380 performance mod:

Deep cycle heavy duty battery! :P










- I don't doubt you Mecha - just a humour injection.


LOL I was calling shenanigans on it too but econ dont lie

just happy one problem down

Fuel econ was lower plus was not putting/lumpy

shifts were stronger, smoother and instant

I noticed huge difference in ease of starting when i put one of those Century HP battries in my Commodore. You almost just need to look at the key and it starts.

Any improvement in time the engine kicks in from turning the key?

I noticed huge difference in ease of starting when i put one of those Century HP battries in my Commodore. You almost just need to look at the key and it starts.

Any improvement in time the engine kicks in from turning the key?

Virtually immediately

I guess it would make a fair bit of difference if the old battery had major power fluctuations, i guess this would play havoc with the ecu and sensors causing incorrect readings etc.

A nice clean power source i.e new battery would change the car dramatically if this was the case.

For e.g
Correct voltages to the sensors= correct readings to the ECU= A nicely running 6g75.

This is the only sense I can make out of this...

I guess it would make a fair bit of difference if the old battery had major power fluctuations, i guess this would play havoc with the ecu and sensors causing incorrect readings etc.

A nice clean power source i.e new battery would change the car dramatically if this was the case.

For e.g
Correct voltages to the sensors= correct readings to the ECU= A nicely running 6g75.

This is the only sense I can make out of this...

Yeah this makes perfect sense to me.. if your voltages where flailing around all your sensors go up to shit - as they are all based on a ratio of your voltage.

And you might say the alternator will keep it constant but if the battery is fubar, then could be causing weirdity.

So I'm not necessarily surprised.. sounds like some of the battery test places are crap.

I tested mine twice at Autobarn within 5 minutes. First test was 'inconclusive', second was a pass.

The battery was gone- a new battery showed me that.

Ok so I knock off work early and head out to the Barossa with my new battery.
Yes, the car feels different. Auto change is quicker and doesnt seem to want to go to 5th so early.
Cant as yet notice any other changes like fuel econ' but it does feel like a different car.
I know the power was not disconnected when the new battery was put in so the ECU hasnt been reset.
Curioser and curioser

I wonder how many other complaints we've had re trans etc that may have its origins in a failing battery?

Bit like a PC PSU (power supply) - it be masked a variety of symptoms that seem like something else.

So what's the battery brand and rating that you're all talking about here? Mine's fine at the moment, but its gotta die someday, and it would be good to have a plan for the next one.

Mine was just an RAA replacement battery rated at 660 cca (cranking amps I think)
But who knows who makes the battery
This is the original spec rating for the battery

....I know the power was not disconnected when the new battery was put in so the ECU hasnt been reset.
Curioser and curioser


How did they change the battery without resetting the ECU?

How did they change the battery without resetting the ECU?


A battery is plugged into the 12V socket and is left running the electrics

A battery is plugged into the 12V socket and is left running the electrics

I see....they probably do that so that people don't need to rummage around for their radio security codes...:)

I had an Exide Extra Battery fitted 2 days ago, start instantly now, even though my battery tested fine, and could crank easily.

550 CCA with a 105 reserve.

3 year warranty and maintenance Free/fully sealed and it fits perfectly.

After a ring around, I found out the battery minimum CCA was 460.

Being Red, it also goes Faster.

http://www.piranhaoffroad.com.au/media/cms/battery_extra.png

Damn that would so much nicer in the molten than the Century with blue and yellow

if you dont mind what did it set you back

I think they were 180.00 roughly.

Just fitted a Supercharge Gold with 610 CCA - stars beautifully and has a 3 year warranty.

Cost $135 fitted from Moorabbin Battery Centre

http://www.supercharge.com.au/images/batteries/goldsml.gif

I thought I read the recommended size was 660cca?
Thats what I had fitted 2 weeks ago

I thought I read the recommended size was 660cca?
Thats what I had fitted 2 weeks ago

stock size is 600cca

Well my battery died today (3yrs & 7 mnths). looked in the 380 manual & it said the stock battery is 600CCA but looking at the Exide that was in there from stock it was only 550CCA.

Anyway went to 3 different places & they all were offering me a 460CCA at best. I eventually spat the dummy at Battery World & said what have you got with 550 + CCA, only thing was a Redtop Optima 34 800 CCA. I was getting pretty cranky with the whole shopping experience by this stage so took it at the grand total of $409!

I eventually got it in the car & when restarting the idle went from 1000 RPM to about 5000 RPM before I killed it at the key. I then restarted cautiously & all good, car drives perfectly. Hopefully should be good for 10 years now lol

Well my battery died today (3yrs & 7 mnths). looked in the 380 manual & it said the stock battery is 600CCA but looking at the Exide that was in there from stock it was only 550CCA.

Anyway went to 3 different places & they all were offering me a 460CCA at best. I eventually spat the dummy at Battery World & said what have you got with 550 + CCA, only thing was a Redtop Optima 34 800 CCA. I was getting pretty cranky with the whole shopping experience by this stage so took it at the grand total of $409!

I eventually got it in the car & when restarting the idle went from 1000 RPM to about 5000 RPM before I killed it at the key. I then restarted cautiously & all good, car drives perfectly. Hopefully should be good for 10 years now lol


Wow

I just looked up the century website and put in my car and it spat out the recommendation

I have no IDEA what CCA is or whatever LOL

Wow

I just looked up the century website and put in my car and it spat out the recommendation

I have no IDEA what CCA is or whatever LOL

Cold Cranking Amps - How many amps are being pushed out on a cold crank :) AFAIK.

Battery World put their tester on the Century they recommended which was 460CCA I think & it came up at 461. Didn't want to go less than what I had so ended up with 800 lol

So what does that mean for me am I TRUCKED???

So what does that mean for me am I TRUCKED???

YES .......... only joking :hmm:

If you can get an Exide like shoot or something like rprodrive you will be right. I personally wouldn't downgrade the CCA rating from the stock battery.

Mine went at the most inconvenient time & all 3 places I visited had the Century. If there wasn't a time issue I would have just ordered in a different battery. Doesn't matter now coz with my Optima I have a 3 year warranty & a life expectancy of up to 10 years :happy:

get the supercharge gold - it is good value at $135 - paying $400 for a battery is ridiculous!

get the supercharge gold - it is good value at $135 - paying $400 for a battery is ridiculous!

I know but i didn't have time to find anything else & being a Company Car it technically doesn't come out of my pocket :ninja:

800 Amps?

That's insane; didn't think you could get that out of a battery the size for the 380. Mine was 660CCA.

800CCA would be pretty useful for a killer sound system.

800 Amps?

That's insane; didn't think you could get that out of a battery the size for the 380. Mine was 660CCA.

800CCA would be pretty useful for a killer sound system.

Yeah they have spiral wound cells so there is a lot more surface area to the electrolyte. The battery is actually shorter then the stock & comes with a spacer.

I have one in the deisel Pajero too as there aint much room for the dual battery setup. I moved it to the firewall & installed a huge 115 amp hour deep cycle in the original position under the bonnet.

What sort of warranty comes with it?

What sort of warranty comes with it?

It has a 3 year warranty & they say they last up to 10 years so would be similar price to 3 normal batteries over the same period I guess.

I carry a jump pack in the back now anyway

but it, did it today funnily then no probs

has to be heat related

There might be something in this high performance battery mod. :eek2:

I never had a starting problem before I got this new battery but I am sure the engine seems to be running a bit sweeter especially noticable at light throttle. Who knows about fuel economy, I can't tell since my trip meter is incorrect with the bigger injectors & it varies a bit depending on how heavy my foot is with the blower.

Anyway mine must be twice as good as Mecha's coz my battery is nearly twice the CCA's :P

Conversely, I've just had my audio system upgraded with a 250W Amp and I'm sure the car has lost a little low speed crispness. It's not enough to worry about or do anything about because it still feels the same power at revs.

Maybe the coil packs really like as much amperage as they can get and produce better spark the more powerful the battery?

We need an auto electrician for an explanation.

Conversely, I've just had my audio system upgraded with a 250W Amp and I'm sure the car has lost a little low speed crispness. It's not enough to worry about or do anything about because it still feels the same power at revs.

Maybe the coil packs really like as much amperage as they can get and produce better spark the more powerful the battery?

We need an auto electrician for an explanation.


I can try and explain if you like?

The ignition coil is basically an impulse transformer.
The voltage produced is a direct function of the ratio of turns between primary and secondary.

For example if you have 100 turns of wire in the primary and 10,000 turns of wire in the secondary then the ratio is 1:1000.

So...put in 12 volts and get out 12,000 volts.


If your battery, under load, such as when starting, puts out 11 volts then you are down a thousand volts.

When you turn the key the starter motor drags the battery voltage down significantly.

Vehicle manufacturers countered this in the past by placing a ballast resistor of 2 ohms in series with the coil power supply and the coil was an 8 volt coil in most cars.
When you turned the ignition key you shorted out the resistor and put 12v on an 8 volt coil thereby momentarily blasting it with 50% more voltage for start up due to the starter motor drain.



So...the higher the battery voltage to start with, the higher the spark voltage.


Well that's my 2 cents worth...:)

Conversely, I've just had my audio system upgraded with a 250W Amp and I'm sure the car has lost a little low speed crispness. It's not enough to worry about or do anything about because it still feels the same power at revs.

Maybe the coil packs really like as much amperage as they can get and produce better spark the more powerful the battery?

We need an auto electrician for an explanation.

Richard if you think your battery is getting a bit tired Joe from Shopping Secure (AMC Sponser) is having a group buy on the Optima batteries like mine. I think he is doing the yellow tops but is happy to mix & match if you want a red top.

Hey, I'd love a 800 amp battery but I've just replaced mine a month or two ago.

I removed the fuse out of the sound system today which is located just off the battery. It is rated at 60 amps! :eek2:
No wonder it was having an effect on my coil packs; I'm pretty sure the starter motor has a fuse about the same!