ok, first off... lower end torque. thats what im after. to be honest i dont really care all too much about the top end power of the car, i obviously dont want the engine gasping for air around 4000rpm when i need to get up and change gears, but moving the power band down lower closer to where you spend most of your time driving seems very beneficial to me. also more torque lower down would help acceleration and be very beneficial when towing. if i can drive at 105km/h at 2200rpm why do i want my peak power at 5500rpm and torque at 4600? would it not be better used if it were ACTUALLY used?

which brings me to my main point. cams and cam timings. i drive an AWD TL and have been looking at swapping to some ralliart/380 cams to give it some more grunt. but do these cams really give that much of a difference? they are still more or less an orriginal part and would therefore be heavily affected by the will to keep emissions low and make the idle sounds smooth and pretty. also when i do change the cams i want to advance the cams to around 4 degrees rather than 4 reterded. i know there are adjustable cam gear kits but am wondering if i can just get the mechanic to install them advanced with stock gears? i dont know exactly how it all works but i am assuming there is some kind of gear system that spins the cams. so if when the new cams go in they were installed advanced instead? can that be done?

something like put the cams in, get everything all lined up or whatever, then take out an idler gear somewhere along the system, rotate the cam side of the gears one tooth or so then re-insert the idler gear to complete the system. would the cam not now be advanced without the need of "adjustable" gears which i plan on only ever adjusting once?

You are right in theory about the cam timing change but you may find one tooth is too much advance, i recall from a post by Alan that he had filed a small bit out of the cam sprocket alignment hole to achive this advance. search for cam advance etc and im sure you will find the thread, there is one somewhere about his work making better cams for his AWD, check the awd forum. hope this helps!

ok, dont advance the sproket one tooth forward, because it will be toooo far, you will have heaps of torque low but it will be utterly usless after 4000, even though you might think it is good like that, trust me, its not.

you need to elongate the rear locator hole .63mm on the rear (fire wall)bank, and .95mm on the front bank, That will give excellent low torque, and it will still make good power at 5000rpm. **this will give you around a 2 degree advance on the rear, and 5 degrees on the front** its probably better than going 4 degrees front and rear.

you need to make your holes longer so that the actual cam shaftrotates clockwise, actctually making the sproket rotate anti clockwise

i did this to my car months ago, and subconciously found myself changing gears ar 2500 instead of 3200. I know this because when i changed it back about 3 months later(to make sure it wasnt a placebo affect) i though why am i reving the crap through the motor?

also, raliart cams wif do sfa (maybe 5kw) unless you are running f.i or a decent n/a build. if you have a spare 1500, ask allan to get you a set of cams, he knows a guy (graham?) that makes them, he said it did wonders for his tl awd

also, raliart cams wif do sfa

If you completely ignore the better power delivery...

Ok,
I have done many combo's on AWD's and the best one so far is what Family Wagon has in his car, he described the set up as if he had jsut taken off a trailer. The difference, when he usually overtakes on the highway he down shifts, no he does not bother

is as follows
Ralliart Cams
HM Headers
High Flow Cat
Some minor exhaust work (keeping in mind that Nigel hates any sort of drone at all)

He has also had a tune done by Steve Knight as well.

You can advance the cams if you wish, it is actually the rear cam that needs a slight amount more than the front, the poster above got the right measurements but on the wrong cams lol however to be honest, you do what is listed above and I believe you will be very happy with what you end up with

from Allan j:
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66614&highlight=cam+tuning&page=3


OK I don't have any knowledge of the 3.0/24valve 6G72 cam timing. Dave and Jason possibly know how far the cams are retarded. From what I've seen and been told by Graham with the Ralliart and 380 both cams are retarded 6 deg approx. Engines with the earlier cams probably have had different retard.

You may want to get a comment from Dave and Jason first but I would guess that a good starting point would be to assume the 3.0 ltr has 4 deg retard. So I'd file the rear sprocket to move the cam 6 deg(thats actually a true 2 deg advanced), and for the front bank I'd move the cam 9 deg. 6 deg= elongate hole clockwise to right by 0.63mm, 9 deg= elongate hole clockwise to right by 0.95mm, so it doesn't take very much filing. When you refit the sprockets just be sure to wind them back anti clockwise as you tighten the center bolt. Make certain you tension the bolt correctly.

Where you are going wrong with your 1 tooth calculation is that the cam moves 1 rev for every 2 revs(720 deg) of the crank. 720 deg divided by 48 teeth is 15 deg. Cam calculations are always relative to the crankshaft and piston position.

Cheers,
Alan

i went off what allan told me, but always keen to get more free power,
so madmagna, if i swap over my sprockets, will it go better at all?

I must have been up a little late, Alan is correct, ignore that part of my post lol