K Pretty sure The radiator is blocked but if anyone can give me another insight that'd be great in case I've missed something here

this is on the Diamante BTW

Car is loosing water, no visible water leaks from any of the hoses. Overflow bottle has never been sucked dry, always been full and had water pushed out of the radiator.

New radiator cap, new thermostat. went for a drive today, started to overheat.

got home, pulled car in, only water loss was from where the overflow has spat some water out.

The radiator top tank looks pretty corroded but before I spent $170 on a new radiator (which im thinking is blocked cauing the extra pressue to come out the O/F) just want to confirm my suspicion.

so if the radiator is blocked which I'm thinking it is will it cause these symptoms? Car stays on perfect temp for short drives but long drives on 80-100kays it just eats through the water.

and like I said, doesnt drop any water! so logically the radiator would be the last thing to get blocked up wouldnt it...

could be, but could be other things too...
how many km's???
are the thermos working???
Still new to magnas but is it common for them to snap implellar shafts/ seize???????

run a radiator flush... might unclog something....

Thermos work fine.
Bleh going in for a monoxide test tomorrow to cancel out a HG

My old camry did this back in the day.

I dropped all the coolent, removed the thermostat and flushed out the whole block and radiator with fresh water (motor obviously cold). After all the rusty old shit came out, topped it up with the good stuff and never had a problem again.

Best way to test your thermostat is to throw it in some boiling water on the stove to see if it opens and closes

My old camry did this back in the day.

I dropped all the coolent, removed the thermostat and flushed out the whole block and radiator with fresh water (motor obviously cold). After all the rusty old shit came out, topped it up with the good stuff and never had a problem again.

Best way to test your thermostat is to throw it in some boiling water on the stove to see if it opens and closes

nah thermostat is brand new and has made a difference (old one was stuck open 1mm)

yeah dont think its a HG issue as its actually FORCING the coolant out through the O/F.
I'll put a new radiator in it though instead of just flush it as this one doesnt look the best, rather spend the extra and know the cooling system will work to its maximum.

Is it coming out through the overflow?

Could be a pin hole in one of the hoses which is causing air to leak in to the system therefore forcing coolant out the overflow bottle without you noticing ;)

Edit: just saw the rest of your last comment, replace hoses etc

correct could be both, gonna be replacing the hoses aswell but wouldn't coolant be pushed put (well water anyway) rather then sucked in? considering it'll be under pretty big pressue

Its easier for air to get in than coolant to get out due to the pressure involved with a cars cooling system. I've seen this problem before, it's a pig to diagnose sometimes! :tired:

not the same, but when i cooked the first reconned engine in the magna we found that the water pump had become partly blocked so wasnt functioning properly. this was a 4 banger dont know if they use the same pump, or if you know it cant be that. but another thing to check?
in the leadup had the same kinds of symptoms too, was fine for 100-150 kms around town overheated the first time i took it over 200. (distance, not per hour - four bangers dont go that fast as far as ive been able to to determine)

Sounds like a pin hole in one of your hoses. I had the exact same problem with my Legnum.
Take those hoses off and change them.

i find it hard to believe there is a hole in any hose which can not leak coolant when at max operating temp and pressure (around 16-20psi) but allow air to be sucked in under vaccum conditions (when temp drops in a sealed system)

I would hazard a guess at thermos not switching on (forgo to take note if you said this already) easy test is to change the relay with your tr and take her out.

a blocked radiator or a dodgey water pump.

if you can tuffy take the timing cover off the front of the motor (i know its hard) and see if there is any leakage from the front of the water pump housing. There is usually a pinhole relief there for when the seal in the pump is failing to let you know

Any money it's your water pump.

Could you explain why the water pump in this situation could cause issues?

I mean it hasnt leaked a drop of water, just gets pushed out the O/F, still think its the radiator though, like just a reasoning as to why/how the water pump could be blocked? surely if it was blocked it wouldnt reach operating temp in normal time?

water pumps can go in two ways the seals can go, when u get water dripping or flooding out of the tell tell hole or they can seize/ snap the impellar off the shaft. No rotation means no flow means there is only the water in the block cooling the engine and not the entire system, as its not circulating

in my case the outlet was half to two thirds gunked up it was pushing water through, just not enough. so the system was working just not at optimum thus why it runs ok initially because the system is being cooled just not at the rate it needs to. cutting a ring at any point has the same effect whether at the pump, like im suggesting as a possibility, or the radiator like you suspect. also if the leak is at the water pump, the engine bay operating temperature is gonna be high enough that its going to evaporate quite quickly. so if its a small enough leak thats only active at pressure you wont see it.
im only saying what we found with my astron, could be something elseentirely, it just sounds similar to me.

water pumps can go in two ways the seals can go, when u get water dripping or flooding out of the tell tell hole or they can seize/ snap the impellar off the shaft. No rotation means no flow means there is only the water in the block cooling the engine and not the entire system, as its not circulating

I see, only reason I dont think its the pump is around town it stays cool, dead on flat, i can drive for 15-30 mins around town temp will stay dead on half, but in that time its been shooting water out the O/F

anyway, changed the top hose just then, gave the old top hose a good looking over and couldnt visually see a hole, I'll still hold onto the hose though...

Checked the water pump out and she looked fine while in motion again..

;1199211']I see, only reason I dont think its the pump is around town it stays cool, dead on flat, i can drive for 15-30 mins around town temp will stay dead on half, but in that time its been shooting water out the O/F

anyway, changed the top hose just then, gave the old top hose a good looking over and couldnt visually see a hole, I'll still hold onto the hose though...

Checked the water pump out and she looked fine while in motion again..

if the pump isnt ciculating water then half th water is ognna be boiling and the rest not so much. i dont know where in the system the temp guage is but maybe its in a gool part. i guess we wont know till you fix it. or mal come to tell us what the problem is. and how wrong i am:P

Okay dunno if its me but i dont think it has to do with circulation (could be wrong?) but seems like there is a blockage and getting thrown out the OF, once this happens a few times it runs low on water and hey presto, runs hot

gonna wait on a test tomorrow but after that ill be buying a rad first up.

;1199211']I see, only reason I dont think its the pump is around town it stays cool, dead on flat, i can drive for 15-30 mins around town temp will stay dead on half, but in that time its been shooting water out the O/F

im starting to think water pump too. on the EA wagon the propeller on the water pump was badly corroded and wasn't pushing water around much. it worked for a while but when the engine was pushed it got too hot and the water boiled and i think that stuffed up what little water flow it had and it started pushing water out the overflow. changed the water pump and it was all good.

righteo.....
only reason I don't wanna touch the water pump is that means mightaswell do the timing belt and i serioulsy dont have another $400 laying around to get all of that done, sigh.

First stop for me in this situation would be a RADIATOR SHOP>

honestly those guys work with these problems day-in day-out. From my experience working in the auto industry I would guess that you have a blocked radiator but honestly lets the professionals have a look at it. A radiator shop usually charges around $30-50 for a cooling systems test and that will tell you all you need to know.

;1199076']nah thermostat is brand new and has made a difference (old one was stuck open 1mm)

yeah dont think its a HG issue as its actually FORCING the coolant out through the O/F.
I'll put a new radiator in it though instead of just flush it as this one doesnt look the best, rather spend the extra and know the cooling system will work to its maximum.

the coolant out the o/f is a symtom of the head gasket because the compression of the cylinder is rising the coolant pressure and in turn forcing more water out, my first guess would be impeller/water pump

before you buy a new rad tuffy.

drain all the fluid out of the radiator, take off the bottom and top hoses and start hosing in the top radiator inlet and watch to see how long it takes for fluid to start coming out the bottom. By design the radiator although using long thin tubes, should almost free flow like you would expect water to fall. If there is any real delay or when you stop the water it takes more then 10 seconds for the water to finsih gushing then the rad is clogged.

the coolant out the o/f is a symtom of the head gasket because the compression of the cylinder is rising the coolant pressure and in turn forcing more water out, my first guess would be impeller/water pump

yup, gonna get it NoX tested tomorrow (pretty sure thats the chemical symbol isnt it, meh)

awesome so either way this car is a dud, fantastic now I have two Mitsubishi's. one which cant do more then 20 minutes and one not going anywhere till its re-wired.

put a overflow (coke bottle) on the overflow and go for a drive and test it over a period of driving

put a overflow (coke bottle) on the overflow and go for a drive and test it over a period of driving

Can you explain what you mean by testing? I know for fact I've rocked up into the driveway 3 times and the OF has spilled out just as I've rocked up. Not to mention a few other times aswell

does the radiator bubble or gurglle when the car is running.

just to gauge how much if any comes out when you drive threw town and on the highway because you notice the stuff that puddles but not when driving

does the radiator bubble or gurglle when the car is running.

yeah tried to bleed the system of all the bubbles but yeah always a few bubbles coming up.....****ing done a HG hasnt it. FFS.

Who wants a diamante? lol

I was just thinking to myself I bet its the head gasket then I read this, bad luck paul. What plans do you have for the car now?

;1199198']Could you explain why the water pump in this situation could cause issues?

I mean it hasnt leaked a drop of water, just gets pushed out the O/F, still think its the radiator though, like just a reasoning as to why/how the water pump could be blocked? surely if it was blocked it wouldnt reach operating temp in normal time?

Well my TE had sporadic overheating issues. Sometimes it would get hot without losing water. Sometimes it would lose some. It was not until it dumped everything on the mechanics garage (fortunately) that the pump was replaced and no more problems. I don't know about the mechanics of the thing however but if the flow was restricted then the high temp water from the manifold could explain the overflow?

I was just thinking to myself I bet its the head gasket then I read this, bad luck paul. What plans do you have for the car now?

Fix it whatever the cost lol

A blocked radiator in my sons former TP wagon = water temp gauge rising as the road speed increased. Sit on 80 kmhr & water temp just above halfway on the gauge. 80 kmhr + = water temp gauge heading to the red.

Cheers

nah this sits on perfect temp doing highway driving...
I'll get it checked out tomorrow anyway and go from there.

Check your spark plugs. If you have one that has water getting into the cylinder it will be getting a nice steam clean job and may look cleaner than the others.
Cheers

I changed them all the other week...Pretty sure they looked ok but I'll double check them now..

So who wants to donate to the fix-the-diamante fund :P

As stated to Paul this arvo, I doubt it can be a head gasket as when stationary the pressure in the cooling system will then cause the coolant to flow back into the cyl. This will then cause 2 fold issue, rough start and coolant will flow back into the sump past the piston thus sludge in oil system. Neither of these are happening

Now the second gen V6 has a big issue with cracked heads, have had this myself in my KR. The head will leak down in the exhaust port thus the coolant runs away down the exhaust and no milk in the sump. This will not cause starting issues either. What will happen is the exhaust pressure which is quite high in this area will pressurise the cooling system and cause exacly what Paul is getting although not in the extreme case that Paul is getting in his car. Not having these engines here as a std engine in Oz am not sure if this is a common issue with teh DOHC heads however given the above I would be thinking that it may be

Mal one more point, did an oil change on it and the oil was pure oil, not one drop of water in there (after I took it for a drive)

When the TR (SOHC) blew a HG....you had half a litre of water in the oil...was pretty obvious.

I'll get this tested tomorrow anyway and hopefully come to a conclusion.

Mal, Once I gather some funds or take out a small loan, I'll be coming for a visit for a timing belt and water pump anyway.

Okay took it into a radiator joint today and described what was going on, right away he goes mate, blocked radiator. being that when im on the highway, the water pump is spinning alot faster, and with what I described, the water isnt getting down to the bottom fast enough, so its building up pressure and going out the O/F

Found a brand new Denso Radiator (Japanese made no shitty chinese quality) for $200 delivered so have just purchased that and HOPEFULLY we have a problem solved!

Steer clear of chinese car parts. they are no damn good.

Will be great if that is the case mate, hope it is

Just as an FYI for those out there, there are a lot of good aftermarket parts made in China, SOME of the radiators are fine but if you can get a ND one for a good price you are on a winner. $200 bucks for a ND radiator is a steal

Will be great if that is the case mate, hope it is

Just as an FYI for those out there, there are a lot of good aftermarket parts made in China, SOME of the radiators are fine but if you can get a ND one for a good price you are on a winner. $200 bucks for a ND radiator is a steal

Ehhhhhh specially with the DOHC engines I only hear horror stories about cheap parts failing, anyway, on ebay there are chinese ones for $180, or only a few ND ones. This one was $220 but offered him $200 and he/she accepted, win.

i.e. this is the cheap one
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MITSUBISHI-MAGNA-TR-TS-Verada-KR-KS-Radiator-91-97_W0QQitemZ260544679567QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_ Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ca9ac4e8f

Now I rang this guy (Asian bloke) he had NO IDEA what i was talking about. I'm like...Are these chinese made...he goes...is this Steve? WTF so that phone call didnt last long.

this is the one I got.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/RADIATOR-MITSUBISHI-MAGNA-TR-TS-91-96-GENUINE-DENSO_W0QQitemZ190362881567QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_C ar_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2c52830e1f

;1199561']Ehhhhhh specially with the DOHC engines I only hear horror stories about cheap parts failing, anyway, on ebay there are chinese ones for $180, or only a few ND ones. This one was $220 but offered him $200 and he/she accepted, win.

i.e. this is the cheap one
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MITSUBISHI-MAGNA-TR-TS-Verada-KR-KS-Radiator-91-97_W0QQitemZ260544679567QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_ Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ca9ac4e8f

Now I rang this guy (Asian bloke) he had NO IDEA what i was talking about. I'm like...Are these chinese made...he goes...is this Steve? WTF so that phone call didnt last long.

this is the one I got.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/RADIATOR-MITSUBISHI-MAGNA-TR-TS-91-96-GENUINE-DENSO_W0QQitemZ190362881567QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_C ar_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2c52830e1f


lol nice story man

I had a problem like this on an SV21 camry 4cyl. Rad was completely blocked, previous owner had used plain tap water in the coolant system and a reaction had caused the innards to be blocked.

good luck paul

Make sure you put a cleaner through the system to give it a good clean out before the new radiator goes in and flush through the block via any coolant drain plugs.

Cheers

just to let you know, on my old Isuzu trooper, the headgasket failed at the point between the 3rd and 4th cylinder. it pumped coolant strait out the exhaust and there was no oil contamination even after nursing it for another 120kms towing a trailer, running on 3 cylinders, after it started overheating. once i changed gasket and had head tigwelded to fix a chip and planed, it was fine. The 2.6l 4ZE1 isuzu motor is a thing of legend!! but yeah mate, cooling syatem problems are a bitch to diagnose sometimes, goodluck!!

As stated to Paul this arvo, I doubt it can be a head gasket as when stationary the pressure in the cooling system will then cause the coolant to flow back into the cyl. This will then cause 2 fold issue, rough start and coolant will flow back into the sump past the piston thus sludge in oil system. Neither of these are happening

Now the second gen V6 has a big issue with cracked heads, have had this myself in my KR. The head will leak down in the exhaust port thus the coolant runs away down the exhaust and no milk in the sump. This will not cause starting issues either. What will happen is the exhaust pressure which is quite high in this area will pressurise the cooling system and cause exacly what Paul is getting although not in the extreme case that Paul is getting in his car. Not having these engines here as a std engine in Oz am not sure if this is a common issue with teh DOHC heads however given the above I would be thinking that it may be

Is taking the head off the only way to determine this issue (in bold)?

steam out the exhaust

Is taking the head off the only way to determine this issue (in bold)?

Whilst the cooling system is under pressure try removing the exhaust manifolds to check for signs of either water leakage or a lack of carbon deposits in the exhaust ports.

Cheers

steam out the exhaust


...when the engine is up to temp though :)

Just do a Monixide test, is the best way

Yeah test the cooling system water/coolant mix for Monoxide gas... that will indicate blown head gasket OR cracked head.

Well new radiator went in :doubt: still lost water.

It needed a new one sooner or later as the one in it was an original item and had pretty bad corrosion around the top tank.

Looks like this is a bigger problem then first though. :doubt: so once I get it monoxide tested next week, Madmagna, I be a knocking on your door lol

2 ******* cars and none can do long distance trips FFS

No worries, do that test first, hvae you pressure tested it as well, dumb question I know but have to ask

What is wrong the the TR, I thought that was going ok

No worries, do that test first, hvae you pressure tested it as well, dumb question I know but have to ask

What is wrong the the TR, I thought that was going ok

Think it still needs a tune, IIRC he accidently wiped the old tune off - and was making it run really rough.

Mate it will be all good, just keep at it and it it takes a little time, no worrys. if i can help with any DOHC parts etc let me know. if you want to do any repairs yourself, and need the workshop manual, i can get it out of the library and send it to ya. I can get it for up too 3 months.

Little update.
Pressure tested, no leaks
Co2 (or whatever the damn chemical is) tested, none found in water.

They have recommended I actually fill it with coolant as they reckon the water is getting so hot its bubbling and that's whats causing the bubbles. bubbles > pressure > overflow > no water in system.

See how I go.

thats always a good thing to hear.... at least you know you don't have the big $$$ repairs ahead...

I hope!!

Makes sense about the coolant although the water shouldnt get above 95 degress i think. definitely cant hurt!!!

if you aren't already then DEFINATELY use coolant, makes temps far more stable and will probably fic the issue completely

Not to mention help protect from internal corrosion.

okay.
if the system hasnt been bled, can and do the air bubbles just stay in the system?

cause im sure this just keeps having air bubbles pop up....wtf can induce air bubbles into the cooling system?

Yeah they will stay in the system and give you a false reading, Run the car and crack open the bleed screw and wait till the air bubbles are gone

bleed screw???

possibly on the manifold where the thermostat sits. try and find the highest part of the cooling system and there may be a bleed screw there.

otherewise get some hose that fits snug into the radiator fillr. about 20cm long. now use this while the engine is running to fill the cooling sytem. this will give you a higher fill point and possibly get some more air out. and also did you wait for the thermostat to open fully?



EDIT:Oh BTW where did you get your new rad from? i need a new one for my TS after the accident. its leaking from the top where its cracked the mounting lug.

TUFFY have you just idled the car with the heater on and top the radiaotr up to full and keep topping it up until you start to see the pulsing/surging of the radiator coolant slow down and stop and the lever should start to slowly rise as it expands. this means its full now and the water pump is pumping water cmpletely through the system. top up and put the cap on, now over fill your overflow bottle and go for a long sedate drive to get thigns nice and warmed up and thenpark it and leave overnight or until underbonnet temps are just warm not hot and any remainging air should have been purged into the overflow during the drive and now that empty air space and overflow coolant line to the radiaotr should be full of the coolant sucked from the overflow.

possibly on the manifold where the thermostat sits. try and find the highest part of the cooling system and there may be a bleed screw there.

otherewise get some hose that fits snug into the radiator fillr. about 20cm long. now use this while the engine is running to fill the cooling sytem. this will give you a higher fill point and possibly get some more air out. and also did you wait for the thermostat to open fully?



EDIT:Oh BTW where did you get your new rad from? i need a new one for my TS after the accident. its leaking from the top where its cracked the mounting lug.

ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/RADIATOR-MITSUBISHI-MAGNA-TR-TS-91-96-GENUINE-DENSO_W0QQitemZ190362881567QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_C ar_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2c52830e1f
i offered him $200 delivered to my door. only thing which was poo poo was on the condensor fan there were no mounting lugs on the bottom of the radiator. other then that, delivered for$200 genuine item, cant go wrong!

yeah ill try bleed it tonight. I mean ive bleed magna cooling systems before. this just keeps getting air in it.....ill try bleed it tonight and if nothing changes ill take it into a radiator place. its getting pretty annoying. only thing i didnt do was run it with the heater on,ill do that this time.

srsly annoying

heater helps... i forgot to mention it.... lol

;1208150']okay.
if the system hasnt been bled, can and do the air bubbles just stay in the system?

cause im sure this just keeps having air bubbles pop up....wtf can induce air bubbles into the cooling system?

Paul,
Once the initial bleed has been done you should be able to warm up the engine and get the thermostat open, this will allow the remaining air to go and once you top up you should be good to go

If you are still then getting air into the sysyem then you have issues such as perhaps the head gaskets like initially suspected. An alternative test is to remove the plugs and presurise each cyl, if the water level increases or you get air bubbles when doing this your suspicions are then confirmed

Just rembered I havent changed the heater hoses yet....and I remember seeing one (already replaced with generic hose) resting against the engine (possible rubbing?!?!) bloody hell! I'll change them tomorrow and see if that stops it. did a "bleed" on it today and there were still many air bubbles getting in.

that test thats done to see if exhaust gas is entering the water came up neg so still not leaning towards HG's. Gonna replace the heater hoses incase there is a pinhole in one of those. you never know....

;1204680']Little update.
Pressure tested, no leaks
Co2 (or whatever the damn chemical is) tested, none found in water.

They have recommended I actually fill it with coolant as they reckon the water is getting so hot its bubbling and that's whats causing the bubbles. bubbles > pressure > overflow > no water in system.

See how I go.

Mmmn wonder how hard they looked or how long they watched the pressure gauge for.

changed hoses last night. still a shitload of bubbles in the radiator. im wondering if they actually did the test at all *rolls eyes*

If a hose is broken you will not get bubbles in, you will get coolant out as the system is under pressure

Pressure test of the engine is what I was talking about, not the cooling system

Yeah that'll be the next step is an engine pressure test. heard some shit about people having pinhole leaks in hoses actually inducting air?!?! so I thought bugger it i'll change em....there 20yo hoses anyway.

yo paul,

dont wanna be the bearer of bad news but i had the same issue with my car a few months back.
bubbling away, coolant disappearing, overheating and leaving a nice white cloud out the back... turned out to be the HG and a warped head...dotdotdot.
as mal said do the tests and see what shows from it but my symptoms were the same as yours...
All the best brother!

;1209659']changed hoses last night. still a shitload of bubbles in the radiator. im wondering if they actually did the test at all *rolls eyes*

Maate if you want to do the monoxide test yourself my offer still stands. PM me if interested.

Cheers

@TuffTR Head Gasket might be blown, DOHC quite often do heads when they get hot

;1209659']changed hoses last night. still a shitload of bubbles in the radiator. im wondering if they actually did the test at all *rolls eyes*

does it bubble when the engines cold or only when it hot?

Paul, just get it over here and the tests can be done once and for all to solve this

I am not talking a cooling sys test either lol

yeah well its a head gasket. looks like a bubble bath in the radiator. cant do much right now without a job and bills coming in the head gasket will have to wait. hopefully i get the TR wired up withing 2 weeks max and that solves that issue. but yeah, defiantly a HG.

cberry - I think you'll find most cars when overheated will do a HG not just the DOHC's.

So Mal, I will be calling on your services to do the HG. Just need the $ (seriously dont have any money) and when that comes I'll let you know, hopefully I can give you a hand disassembling and re-assembling to save some pennies lol

No worries, pity you live over in the bad lands bud or I could offer you some work in exchange for labour lol

Perhaps when you have some spare cash get your spare set all cleaned up, shaved, seals etc done so is a lot less work to complete and less time off the road

yeah. I'm positive its only the front head based on a slightly rusty spark plug so I'll be getting one head cleaned up. the rear head hasnt even got any oily stains in it after 246xxxkm's :| so the engine is in top nick.

just had to fork out $200+ today for some wireless internet for home (living away from home now) so bloody hell, broke for another few weeks.
if all else fails the white XE falcon will be used again. sigh.

are the DOHC head gaskets the same as SOHC? i got a new pair here i may be able to swap....

hey TUFFY pm me your bank details again. The money i sent you last week is back in my account as it said i entered or didnt have the correct info. The info is correct for what i have but it must be wrong, or you've changed accounts which ever. Let us know mate

believe its the same gasket as the 3rd gens

correct. SOHC is different to DOHC HG's, lynel I'll PM you details tonight

so yeah, go to bleed the system from a cold start, initially ok, pushing a bit of water out of the neck, no bubbles, lovely!
keep waiting, keeps pushing water out...
and more water
then it starts to foam.

Didnt suck any water back in and it got to normal temp.
wtf do i do now. So sick of this car.
now I have a nice foamy diamante.