Does anyone have any info on what to look for in regards to turbo charging or supercharging my Magna has anyone done this and can give some advice thanks for ur help

Search button dude

plenty of people on here are supercharged, and a few are in the middle of turbo mods. It can all be done, just hope you're loose with your bank account

BTW, welcome :)

hi mate the search button brings a few topics up but mainly of general talk.......
a few of the awd boys excluding my self:( have gone down the suppercharged path .
but none as of yet!!! have turboed /twin turboed an awd .
there have been a few of the fwd magnas turbo/twin turbo though
so most just supercharge due to cost and for reliability i guess
i have been interested in doing this for a long time as would many others in an awd but $$$$ dont come easy lol
i think i read in a thread some where that some one was planning to do it but havent heard nothing more.

I think in the long run - supercharging, is cheaper.

A supercharged AWD Magna / Verada, is a little more common than a twin turbo one, so your likely to get a FRACTION more support (unless your like me.. and live in the middle of nowhere... and the people that did the install... have one of two issues along the way that they dont tell you about... but i digress...)

ANYTHING is possible with enough money - and moding a car towards forced induction, supercharged or turbo / twin turbo charged, is quite expensive.
The initial upfront cost of the blower, then the installation, then the tuning.
THEN
ongoing service costs - the cost of higher octane fuel, the cost of better oil - and having to change it more frequently. it all adds up quite quickly.

If your a lil short on cash right now - then may FI isnt the best thing to be doing currently...

Lots of information on here - peoples experiences etc - just gotta sift through the search results.

EDIT - btw - welcome!

hi mate the search button brings a few topics up but mainly of general talk.......
a few of the awd boys excluding my self:( have gone down the suppercharged path .
but none as of yet!!! have turboed /twin turboed an awd .
there have been a few of the fwd magnas turbo/twin turbo though
so most just supercharge due to cost and for reliability i guess
i have been interested in doing this for a long time as would many others in an awd but $$$$ dont come easy lol
i think i read in a thread some where that some one was planning to do it but havent heard nothing more.

I'd love to know how that's true.
If anything, A turbocharger would make your engine more "Reliable" then a supercharger as a supercharger is ALWAYS forcing air in. A turbocharger may not force air in until 3000RPM.

Either way your looking at it your going to be down the gurgler at least $10K. That's just bolt on's too. You'd be surprised how much custom fabrication can cost when you need to make intercooler pipes, manifolds etc.

if you were going down the Turbocharged route, Personally I'd be dropping in a 6A12TT Galant/Legnum motor and boosting the hell out of that. Giggity.

Hey man welcome to the club.
I was looking at Twin turboing an AWD and tufftr is right, your lookin at at least $10K. Hope you got some money saved up.

10k sounds quite optimistic to me, when i inquired i was looking closer to $13 & that's without cracking the engine open.......

10k sounds quite optimistic to me, when i inquired i was looking closer to $13 & that's without cracking the engine open.......

Exactly my point...:hmm:

;1202734']I'd love to know how that's true.
If anything, A turbocharger would make your engine more "Reliable" then a supercharger as a supercharger is ALWAYS forcing air in. A turbocharger may not force air in until 3000RPM.


if you were going down the Turbocharged route, Personally I'd be dropping in a 6A12TT Galant/Legnum motor and boosting the hell out of that. Giggity.

True ,MY BAD:happy:

With Putting the 6A12TT motor in what difficultys would we posibly have? and How Much more $$$ are there to be saved or spent in going about it this way?

Base motor is about $2200 from import wreckers. Halfcut would be around $4K, itd still be an expensive excersize (you cant get out of converting to FI cheap) just having a factory turbo motor is a better platform despite its smaller size.

guy in fast fours ran a GT35/40 on a 6A12TT in an FTO for 305fwkw....

it all sounds so easy, other than motor and ecu/wireing/tune and finding a way to mount the motor would you need to change the gear box or is the gerabox the same in the legnum? would $10k be enough to do something like this , including labour?
sorry about all the questions just not sure what is involved in this sort of thing (conversions).

Well i would try and find a frontcut so you have the gearbox, wiring, ecu etc. without it, watch the cost spiral. you need the gearbox as a 6A1 motor has a different bellhousing to a 6G7 motor. 6A12TT's coming in AWD form are also a great platform for an AWD.

My 6G74 "conversion" base motor only cost me $1500. ECU, wiring, parts, tuning, LABOR, I'm past the $8K mark now. Thats for an unmodified NA motor. (albeit with some first-in-aus things that had to get done too)

So whatever your budget, add another 50% onto it. Do plenty of research first.
If your dead keen on it, Go and visit some local Performance shops and ask them, have they seen it done before? Can it be done? Can they do it? labor costs her hour?

Honestly, I'd be pulling this car off the road for 6 months, buy a daily. You could probably do 80% of the labor yourself and just fiddle around with small things which dont want to play nice.

Or, go and see a legnum/galant in the flesh, try and take pictures, measurements of mounts etc, and compare it to a magna, see how you go from there.

thanks for all the info mate, you have been very helpful:happy:

Save up some $$ mate its epensive...

you have to decide what you want from your car.. there are many awd magna's getting around running low psi chargers.. that run fine day in day out...

there's also a few different suppliers now too which is great for us..


a full engine conversion is a big deal... and you can kiss good bye resale, would you buy a car that had an engine conversion???

There's lots of information and lots of different ways to go. To be honest I would start buy trying to go manual, your beast will def haul then...


If I had my time over I would have built my engine first, then charged after... but I was determined to hit 200kw on a stock engine and drive it daily... I did for the best part of 12months....

look around mate, check out the members rides threads for what different people have done and ask questions of those people..

oh and welcome :)

i am looking at doin this conversion i have already gone through the price of most of the stuff a manual frontcut $2200 biggers brakes bout $1200 evo intercooler is bout $350 u'll also need the legnum/galant crownwheel and pinion for the rear diff as the ratios are different as for computer you can split both looms and wire in the standard computer that way it'll pass engineering and emissions test with ease all up prob looking at round $6-7 k from my guestamations

i am looking at doin this conversion i have already gone through the price of most of the stuff a manual frontcut $2200 biggers brakes bout $1200 evo intercooler is bout $350 u'll also need the legnum/galant crownwheel and pinion for the rear diff as the ratios are different as for computer you can split both looms and wire in the standard computer that way it'll pass engineering and emissions test with ease all up prob looking at round $6-7 k from my guestamations

Keep going lol It'll be a bit more than a $6k or $7k estimate. Depends how much work you do yourself.

well i work in performance shop so i can do most of it myself including the wiring harness

well i work in performance shop so i can do most of it myself including the wiring harness

If you manage to get out of it for anywhere even remotely close to $10k, let us all know.

will do

Well looking at what I've spent on my turbo conversion so far it looks like I'm going to get away for under 5k. I guess it all depends on how much work you can do yourself and how readily available 'free' parts are to you. The only parts I haven't paid for so far is the steel for the manifolds.

Well looking at what I've spent on my turbo conversion so far it looks like I'm going to get away for under 5k. I guess it all depends on how much work you can do yourself and how readily available 'free' parts are to you. The only parts I haven't paid for so far is the steel for the manifolds.

I agree Ben everyone thinks turboing and supercharging should cost a fortune but i should get out of my twin turbo install for under 5 grand also,more like about 3-4 grand.Its just a matter of spending some time sourcing parts at the right price.

I agree Ben everyone thinks turboing and supercharging should cost a fortune but i should get out of my twin turbo install for under 5 grand also,more like about 3-4 grand.Its just a matter of spending some time sourcing parts at the right price.

Are you putting a turbo on your 4cyl?

No buddy on my TH manual.
http://www.aussiemagna.net/forums/showthread.php?t=71717

haha thought so, I shouuld've looked for the other members machine thread.

As for the OP, here is one guy that is going turbo on his AWD. As far as anyone is aware it's not complete but you enver know.

http://www.aussiemagna.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62687&highlight=awd+turbo

;1202734'] If anything, A turbocharger would make your engine more "Reliable" then a supercharger as a supercharger is ALWAYS forcing air in. A turbocharger may not force air in until 3000RPM.

I'd love to know how that's true! My GT Forester, as do Turbo diesels, have boost available in spades from low rpm. There's a lot involved in sizing exhaust and inlet impellors, housing ratios and so on. Then there's the bearing style to consider, the bearing race material. Going a 'cheap' turbo may give some exciting bang-for-buck initially, but you'll soon be thumbing a Garrett catalogue or prowling import forums and ebay looking for more reliability (read: "more money going out :( ) ANY forced induction system can be victim to catastrophic failure, and just as probable is that ANY forced induction system that is properly planned, tuned, implemented and honest with itself from conception to completion, will be a runaway success. Plenty of OEM examples for either boosted scenario. Plenty of fails too.

The reason imho for the piston failures in the boosted std motors (3.5L) is the fuel rail not being properly modded and the lack of knock detection when tuning.

I have forged slugs because I had to rebuild and had some spare $ at the time. Even forged slugs wont roll with detonation or lean out for long.

AWD can handle a single turbo in similar mount position to EGO or even front bank mounted (just like half the twin fwd turbo arrangement) but the side mount has issues with a dump pipe getting to the back of the car. Could wrap back to the front and under the sump. Almost forget about the rear bank feeding the snail too. Lots of compromises or lots of complications with AWD turbo. Which is a terrible shame given the vehicle's potential. Not impossible, just involved.0

Boosting your ride is very rewarding, sure natmo can be fun but I've been in all manner of natmo and boosted rides and the best rides are all boosted. Rides: AMG63, V10 M5, STI WRX, RS4 V8TT, XR8 vortech and kenne bell (KB better by MILES!), loads of big displacement V8s, GT Liberty, GT Forester, GTS300, S15, XJR, list goes on. The M5 is the most awesome natmo car I've ever been in. Super fast, super powerful, trick launch mode. Stops like a magnet on a fridge.

Decide what you *really* want from your ride not what you want to w@nk about on a forum or at the pub. I.e: Not much fun having a peaky daily driver, ask a H2000 or Alloytech V6 owner.... :io:

Decide what you *really* want from your ride not what you want to w@nk about on a forum or at the pub. I.e: Not much fun having a peaky daily driver, ask a H2000 or Alloytech V6 owner.... :io:[/QUOTE]

Decide what you *really* want from your ride not what you want to w@nk about on a forum or at the pub. I.e: Not much fun having a peaky daily driver, ask a H2000 or Alloytech V6 owner.... :io:[/QUOTE]

so in realality what you are saying is sell and put money toward something with a better building platform,not having a stab just trying to get what you are saying:confused:

so in realality what you are saying is sell and put money toward something with a better building platform,not having a stab just trying to get what you are saying:confused:

I think he is more saying decide whether you want an all balls out engine, or something you can live with on the commute to work.

my $0.02... build the engine up before you put the blower or turbo on it.

if you can do that for ~$5k, you must be getting pretty good deals.

Just a question

What has to be done to mod the fuel rail?

nothing... I think Ian's talking about upgrading the whole fuel system. I would include as part of building up the engine bigger injectors, upgraded FPR, upgraded fuel pump. leave the fuel rail alone.

The fuel feed comes in the rear bank, loops to the front bank, fpr then back to tank. Best to feed both banks initially, return via a Y at the opposite end of the rail. Pretty simple stuff.

I don't see how that would make a difference seeing as the whole rail is under pressure? Going by that logic the pistons closest to the throttle body will get the most ammount of boost....

equal pressure, unless the bigger extractors suck the fuel away too fast.

Then theres the potential issue that if the fuel has to travel around the fuel rail for longer, the last cylinders to receive the fuel are going to have hotter fuel if heat soak is an issue.

Those are my guesses at reasons for the modification to the fuel rail :)

I'd like to see some numbers on pressure and temperature at the end of the fuel rail vs beginning. I doubt there's significant difference, and probably not enough to warrant re-routing fuel lines and messing around with the rail.

really, the rails only hold about 100ml of fuel each (if that).

equal pressure, unless the bigger extractors suck the fuel away too fast.

Then theres the potential issue that if the fuel has to travel around the fuel rail for longer, the last cylinders to receive the fuel are going to have hotter fuel if heat soak is an issue.

Those are my guesses at reasons for the modification to the fuel rail :)

There would be no pressure issue as I said in my previous post. As for heat soak the difference wouldn't be enough to make a difference.

No wonder the serious motor builders don't post here anymore.

EZ Boy, this is AMC, not Performance Forums(.com), I think you're expecting way too much from this lot when it comes to real information.

There has been a LOT of real information posted on AMC over the last 5years, but it just seems to keep going around and around. ALL performance V8s and V6s, fast opposable motors that have large fuel requirements have split fuel rails. You can run your system without but you will need to run high rail pressure (walbro's apparently don't like it but some have lasted, others have died go figure) and rich afr's to compensate, and then it still may not work 100%. If safety and sensible fuel usage is your goal then split the rails. If you don't want to do that, then don't do that. Guy has asked for advice. He's got mine. I might start an air filter or rear muffler or low springs thread - we need more of those threads. * yawns, logs off *

subaru's have an issue with lower pressure on the last injector, very common for them to feed both rails and have a common fpr @ the other end.

EZ Boy - Point taken. But these are not a diesel motor with a redline of 3000RPM. You would want a turbo in this application to have power from anywhere around 2500RPM-7000RPM with the right cams. So with what I've said is still true.
Dual feed fuel rail setups.....you poor buggers....I can buy one off the shelf!
http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_viewItemBundle.asp?idProduct=26921

Now THIS is a nice dual feed setup
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/oohnoo_VR4/IMG_0333.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/oohnoo_VR4/3000GT/IMG_0342.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn61/oohnoo_VR4/3000GT/IMG_0618.jpg

wow, that's an expensive setup... $1250US.

I've yet to see an answer about the benefits of dual fuel rail feeds in our cars (other than everyone else does it).

I personally don't think the fuel distribution pattern is adversely affected by the single feed. case in point, all of the pistons blown due to heat detonation in Sprintex'd cars have been front drivers side. that's not where I would expect to see a lean out due to lack of fuel pressure or distribution. surely the lack of pressure would show more in the last cylinder fed from the rail (furthest from the pump/FPR) on the passenger side.

not trying to start a fight, just trying to understand why you'd put a high $$ dual feed setup into a car without *knowing* that it was an issue.

I wasn't aware there was any form of issue with the stock fuel rail? Surely if more fuel is required just put bigger injectors in?

wow, that's an expensive setup... $1250US.

I've yet to see an answer about the benefits of dual fuel rail feeds in our cars (other than everyone else does it).

I personally don't think the fuel distribution pattern is adversely affected by the single feed. case in point, all of the pistons blown due to heat detonation in Sprintex'd cars have been front drivers side. that's not where I would expect to see a lean out due to lack of fuel pressure or distribution. surely the lack of pressure would show more in the last cylinder fed from the rail (furthest from the pump/FPR) on the passenger side.

not trying to start a fight, just trying to understand why you'd put a high $$ dual feed setup into a car without *knowing* that it was an issue.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the one with the least pressure will be the one closest to the pump. Pressure in the fuel rail builds up at the end first. This was recalled from when I was installing a garden irrigation system and was told to make a loop (that is connect the end back to the begining in a loop fashion to evenly distribute pressure otherwise that last sprinkler will have the most pressure.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the one with the least pressure will be the one closest to the pump. Pressure in the fuel rail builds up at the end first. This was recalled from when I was installing a garden irrigation system and was told to make a loop (that is connect the end back to the begining in a loop fashion to evenly distribute pressure otherwise that last sprinkler will have the most pressure.

fair enough, but either way, the pistons that have blown have been in the middle of the rail (4th in line I believe).

that's why I don't think there's a distribution problem.

im lost what does the fuel rail have to do with puting a super charger/turbo or twin turbo setup on the awd or doing an engine conversion:confused::confused::confused:

the fuel system should be upgraded if you're planning on adding more than about 6psi of boost to the engine.

im lost what does the fuel rail have to do with puting a super charger/turbo or twin turbo setup on the awd or doing an engine conversion:confused::confused::confused:

True. I've supercharged my car and with pretty much with any major engine modification be it N/A or forced induction you'll have to increase the fuel going to the engine as the engine arguably is burning more fuel. Thus, for example (3L) my 200cc injectors and standard fuel pressure regulator were obsolete. So now I run 475cc injectors (tuned at -55%) and a Walbaro fuel pump (500L/hr i think it is). This avoids leaning the engine out and sarving it of fuel. Arguably, if DECC or the EPA aren't involved its always safer to have the engine running a tad too rich than a tad too lean.

I honestly don't think the abovementioned is really needed. I've been through one engine (and it was before the supercharger) and surprise, surprise my fourth piston was stuffed and the engine really only did blow because I was being a dick (bad mood and pretty awesome to have parents that had privately owned roads (now public as the land has been sold off and subdivided) and I pushed it to its limits).

If youre going down this route, buy yourself some bigger injectors and a fuel pressure regulator and you should be fine. I havent blown my engine yet (touches wood) but I think the fact that the engines are originally designed to be N/A has a lot to do with detonation. Also, the way its driven has a tonne to do with it. Excuse my naivity, but a lot of people (TGR, Blacktrack etc) also said this when I went door to door looking for someone to do my supercharger install.

The biggest restriction in the fuel rail is the joiner between the two rails. I've pissed that off and run a braided hose between the two, plus the same size hose from the reg and return line. AFAIK you dont need to run dual feed rails in these cars, but it doesnt hurt.

True. I've supercharged my car and with pretty much with any major engine modification be it N/A or forced induction you'll have to increase the fuel going to the engine as the engine arguably is burning more fuel. Thus, for example (3L) my 200cc injectors and standard fuel pressure regulator were obsolete. So now I run 475cc injectors (tuned at -55%) and a Walbaro fuel pump (500L/hr i think it is). This avoids leaning the engine out and sarving it of fuel.
Ok back in buissiness i am on the same page now lol i still have so much to learn:learn:

The biggest restriction in the fuel rail is the joiner between the two rails. I've pissed that off and run a braided hose between the two, plus the same size hose from the reg and return line. AFAIK you dont need to run dual feed rails in these cars, but it doesnt hurt.

*has one of these for sale if anyone is interested* Just a plug there...need to get rid of it.
but thats why I got one (albeit i do buy alot of random stuff).......was told that the kink in the fuel rail is just another slight restriction which doesnt need to be there.

if you check the 3sx website, they also have aluminimum fuel rail loops for sale too.

The fuel pressure problem is addressed by fitting a 7th injector into the intake manifold in a Sprintex system.

That in itself makes for an even amount of extra fuel to all cylinders since they all have the same length induction path.

However it is a form of throttle body injection which is notorious for bad fuel economy.


.

The fuel pressure problem is addressed by fitting a 7th injector into the intake manifold in a Sprintex system.

That in itself makes for an even amount of extra fuel to all cylinders since they all have the same length induction path.

However it is a form of throttle body injection which is notorious for bad fuel economy.


.

Not to mention the 7th injector being a lazy band aid fix to what is a problem that should only be fixed properly.

The fuel pressure problem is addressed by fitting a 7th injector into the intake manifold in a Sprintex system.

That in itself makes for an even amount of extra fuel to all cylinders since they all have the same length induction path.

However it is a form of throttle body injection which is notorious for bad fuel economy.


.

While yes, the 7th injector is a crude form of extra fuel injection, its hard to tune for uniform control too.

it also - would cause a DROP in fuel rail pressure when you think about it.
The 7th injector in the sprintex setup - is a big one..... when it opens... a fair bit of fuel goes in (trust me I know - was driving the car around with it pretty much firing all the time....)
When the injector is open - the fuel in the rail is being let out... which would lower rail pressure for a moment or so until the fuel pump has pumped more up again.

Thats how i see it in my mind - instead of 6 controlled leaks - you get 7 (altho.. the extra is a hard to control leak!)

To contridict the bad ecomony idea:
while yes - if your running an EA Falcon with centrepoint injection - thats bad for economy. However the Sprintex system, only adds fuel when its needed through the 7th - its not ment to fire ALL the time!
If you drive it like a hoon on full / big boost all the time.. then yeah.. the 7th will fire away happily.

The fuel pressure problem is addressed by fitting a 7th injector into the intake manifold in a Sprintex system.

That in itself makes for an even amount of extra fuel to all cylinders since they all have the same length induction path.

However it is a form of throttle body injection which is notorious for bad fuel economy.


.

sorry, but they don't have the same length induction path. the blower outlet is as far to the drivers side as it can get, which means the cylinders on the passenger side are quite a bit further away from the outlet than the drivers side ones.

that's why there's an upright in the plenum to evenly distribute the pressure. I'm sure it helps, but I'm also sure it doesn't fully compensate for the difference in distance.

cheers,
.wook