My magna has done something weird the last two days. started normally in the morning, I turned it off and started no problem a few times. then after driving a few hours (i was driving from alice to cairns) I stopped to get fuel. Then went to start the car again, and it wouldn't start. lights come on and i can hear a ticking inside. but no turning over.

I cleaned the terminals, checked fuses and fusible links, nothing. after not starting for half hour hour, it all of a sudden fired up no problem. it did it again later the same day when i stopped for fuel again. the next day started up first time, several times in the morning, then I stopped after driving several hours, and it wouldn't turn over. this time i couldnt go anywhere for over an hour. I popped the hood, looked at come wires to see if things were connected, lol
went for a walk after cursing for a while, and then when i come back, it starts again, first go.

So has anyone ever had anything like this happen? could it be a short? bad connections, i also looked at the connections to the ignitor, but all looked ok.

any ideas would be great. I was thinking of cleaning the contacts to the starter?solenoid. but , don't laugh, i have no idea where it is. the haynes manual doesnt have a very good pic or directions.

I'm currently in cairns and coming down the coast. if anyone would like to show me how to get to the starter that would be great. i'll be in cainrs a few days and then hanging around brissy and gold coast close to a week.

hope someone knows whats going on.

thanks

jason

check
if the battery terminals are not metal ones change them

recheck the eath strap to the body/motor

it may be a faulty solenoid of the starter motor

starter motor on the 4 cyl is on the driverside below the fuel filter

follow the positive terminal wire to its other end (that is the starter motor )

had the exact problem . was driving me nuts after a trip to the auto-election found out the dizzy connection and the dizzy it selff was cactus . replaced them and was good as gold. now my tp won't start but keeps turning over(think the ISCM has given up).

I had the same on both TN and TS. On the TS, when it got hot, everything worked, gueges, lights etc but engine would not turn over. Tried a little tap on the solenoid with the wheel brace while missus turned the key and bingo turned over straight away. Auto elec fixed the problem and no troubles since. On the TN, my daughters car, same thing happened, so we tried tapping it and again, same thing. Only drama was her starter was also shot, so it was all replaced. Again in both cases, they were solenoid failure and easily fixed.

I see, so i'll have to try and clean the contacts and see if that helps.

any reason why uts ok when cold but then doesnt start after running for a while?

i don't know if i've jiggled something right and it starts or if it has just needed time to sit and or cool off.

cheers

Is yours a manual or an auto? If it is an auto, sometimes jiggling the gear selector lever may help. On my sedan, I always have to jiggle the shifter before turning the key. It is because my neutral safety switch needs slight adjustment. (the switch that prevents it from starting unless it is in neutral or park).

Folks, I have a 1986 Elite that has the same problem: won't start (no starter motor) when warm. Wait 45 minutes to an hour and it starts perfectly.

Maybe it's a coincidence, but the problem first appeared after the engine was steam-cleaned/degreased a couple of times. NRMA Road Service took a look at it and said there were low (around 5) volts at the starter motor solenoid. So, a quick fix was to touch a jumper wire from the battery +ve terminal to the starter motor solenoid which would start the engine nicely whenever the problem occurred, making sure of course the transmission was in Park and the handbrake on before opening the bonnet. This worked great except when raining, cold, dark, wearing whites, or on a date.

Then a Mitsubishi service workshop took the car to an auto electrician who installed a small slave relay to the starter motor solenoid ($80) with an iron-clad guarantee it would "never ever" have that starting problem again. To prove their point, they threw out my trusty jumper wire. But let me tell you folks, the "never ever" guarantee lasted about 18 hours - the next day I had to drive 600 km with several 45-minute stops along the way (to let the engine cool down before it would start again) and had no jumper wire to quickstart. Was not a happy chappie.

Tonight I did some more work tracing the fault. Power through the ignition key switch is all okay (no voltage drop) and the next step will be under-bonnet measurements. Will let you know how it turns out.

P.S. In the meantime, I'm using a new all-weather jumper wire ... this time it's inside the car, plugs into the cigarette lighter socket which then operates the starter solenoid slave relay. The car starts normally each time using this trick, but the original fault is still there, waiting to be found.

my TN is fitted with a relay
and I sometimes have a starting problem

questions
Is the battery charging properly
how old is the starter and battery
do you have metal battery terminals

Hey all. This is classic starter/solenoid failure. The reasoning behind fitting a relay to the starter system is that as everything ages it takes more current to pull the solenoid in and make contact. Starter solenoid is just a heavy duty switch to connect the battery to the starter itself. They fit the relay to give the solenoid full 12 volts on turning the key. Having to tap the starter means one of two things either solenoid is worn and sticking or more likely the brushes in the starter motor have worn out. False economy to fit a new solenoid to an old starter it wont take long for the problem to re appear. New unit or rebuild is the only cure.

FYI, there's a similar discussion happening on another Forum: Second Generation Magna TR - TS
and the thread is: Car wont start... Sometimes

my TN is fitted with a relay
and I sometimes have a starting problem

questions
Is the battery charging properly
how old is the starter and battery
do you have metal battery terminals

Are you saying that you DO have the additional (slave) relay and you STILL have the warm starting problem? That's my problem too. To answer your questions:
- Yep, battery is charging properly.
- Starter age unknown (original?) but works well, and the battery is going on 4 years and going strong.
- I do need to fit metal battery terminals, but have taken the plastic ones off and really cleaned them and there are no problems (e.g. heating) there.

I've buzzed the wiring from the ignition switch to the transaxle and found that the Neutral Safety Switch has between 0 and 18 ohms resistance when in Park or Neutral to the starter slave relay WHEN COLD. This resistance seems low enough to activate the slave relay and thus the starter solenoid. But when HOT, the resistance through the Neutral Safety Switch is much higher (up to many megohms) which prevents the starter solenoid or slave relay from starting the car. The high resistance through the switch varies with temperature as measured on a digital multimeter. The Gregory's Service & Repair Manual for the TM doesn't recommend repairing a faulty Neutral Safety Switch, just replacing it. Easier said than done these days. [I wonder if anyone has actually repaired a faulty Neutral Safety Switch?]

Tonight I've rewired the car back to the standard factory configuration: i.e. no slave relay, just using the 12 volts from the ignition switch Start position through the various plugs and sockets to the Neutral Safety Switch and then directly to the starter motor solenoid - and the engine starts every time when it's cold, which means there's no problem with the battery, the ignition switch, the starter motor solenoid, or the starter motor. [Have also replaced the old plastic +ve battery terminal connector with a gold-plated one that has its own built-in digital voltmeter.]

So, how do we get around the no-warm-start problem? I plan to use another part of the Neutral Safety Switch which is still working okay: there is a wire from the Switch that has 12 volts on it whenever the gear selector is in Park, and another wire that has 12 volts when in Neutral. I plan to isolate those wires using diodes and use their outputs to operate a slave relay, which will then allow the starter motor solenoid to engage whenever the ignition key is turned to Start. That way the car will only start when in Park or Neutral, as originally designed. If anyone is interested in the details when I've got it working, just let me know.

ide be interested to see how the auto elec wired the relay and how you propose to do it. one problem i have regularly is the terminal on the starter motor coming loose and giving nothing. happens all the time because you cant get it tight because the baker-lite surround the holds the bolt is striped and cranked.
regards jay

Jay, I'll take some photos (using the camera in a mobile phone - sorry, don't have a high res digi cam) of the auto electrician's handiwork and post them here. Will try to draw some circuit diagrams as well if that's helpful.

BTW, what sort of Magna do you have?

i have a 89 auto SE Wagon. electrics are not doing so well tho :(

yes i have repaired several

you undo the small screws holding the unit togeather
from underneath

all that is inside are brass strips in a curve
with grease of some sort

the main contact is also brass

ide be interested to see how the auto elec wired the relay and how you propose to do it. ... regards jay

Here's some photos that describe the auto-elec's handiwork:
http://www.skyrental.com.au/images/0527101014-1.jpg

http://www.skyrental.com.au/images/0527101013-3.jpg

http://www.skyrental.com.au/images/0527101013-4.jpg

makes sense that he has put the relay in so the starter solenoid gets a full 12 volts every time the thing is started but i dont understand why he didn't run some simple checks to see weather the inhibitor switch and key switch were functioning properly because surly with a multi meter and 5 minutes he would have found that the neutral inhibitor switch was the problem then replaced that and job done properly rather than splicing into looms and installing relays only for it to stuff up a few hours later. just out of curiosity was he a young or older man?
anyway i suppose we all have our methods!
regards jay

The auto elec was an older man and I quizzed him specifically about the inhibitor switch and he said 'no' - the problem is a voltage drop through the ignition key switch, and the Bosch relay he installed was going to fix all that. (I've checked the ignition switch - there's no voltage drop across it.)

Two Mitsubishi service centres said the same thing, that it wasn't the inhibit switch. As mentioned in an earlier post, before the relay was installed, I'd been using a wire to jumpstart the car when hot (between the battery and the starter solenoid) and the auto elec said categorically I'd "never ever" need that jumper lead again with his relay installed ... "never ever" lasted until the next day.

I got really tired of paying so-called professional repairers in Canberra* who happily take your money but don't actually fix the problem or know what they're talking about. Ended up buying a Gregory's manual for the TM and now can do all the faultfinding myself.

*BTW, if anyone wants a list of workshops where NOT to take your Magna in Canberra, just let me know. Happy to believe any conspiracy theories on the subject. Incompetence is another explanation.

seeing as my neighbor cant afford the $500 + service bill at the moment ive been servicing everything on all his cars ( 85 mazda ute, 94 falcon and the good old 89 magna) and we have discovered not only do the things get done properly but they also get done a hell of allot cheaper. things like the power steering pump cost over $500 to get done by the time the mechanic buys a new pump ($200) with a bit of fluid then labor. but we bought a basically new one from the wreckers for $45 with a one month warranty so how can you go wrong? no harm in trying then if there is serious problems (none yet) take it to the 'professionals'.
so anyway ill get off the soap box but basically i cant see an lose in trying it all yourself because really after market parts cost nothing and most things can be done out of basic tool box then at least you know whats been done and what type of parts went into it.
regards jay