hi all,
i'm in the process of turbocharging and have a few q's about bits and pieces, was wondering if anyone can help:

1. for forced induction are all the setups just using a MAP sensor as the load vs. rpm and then pulling timing out/adding fuel as boost comes on/increases? I just made up a plug for a haltech interceptor as per haltechs wiring diagram, but realised the TPS input may be obsolete...

Also, where are you guys tapping in for the MAP source (and boost guage, etc.)...? would the lines off the T/B work?


2. With larger injectors do you guys have any problems with closed loop function? i'll be putting in 360cc injectors which aren't too much bigger, i'm guessing that closed loop have the scope to adjust for these after a little drive, then just tune for open loop..?

3. What's the best way to setup the PCV system to cope with boost?

4. Anybody know the thread size/type for the oil pressure guage to tap into for turbo oil?

I think that's all, any help would be great! :happy: i'm going to try a STS style rear mount setup

hi all,
i'm in the process of turbocharging and have a few q's about bits and pieces, was wondering if anyone can help:

1. for forced induction are all the setups just using a MAP sensor as the load vs. rpm and then pulling timing out/adding fuel as boost comes on/increases? I just made up a plug for a haltech interceptor as per haltechs wiring diagram, but realised the TPS input may be obsolete...

Also, where are you guys tapping in for the MAP source (and boost guage, etc.)...? would the lines off the T/B work?


2. With larger injectors do you guys have any problems with closed loop function? i'll be putting in 360cc injectors which aren't too much bigger, i'm guessing that closed loop have the scope to adjust for these after a little drive, then just tune for open loop..?

3. What's the best way to setup the PCV system to cope with boost?

4. Anybody know the thread size/type for the oil pressure guage to tap into for turbo oil?

I think that's all, any help would be great! :happy: i'm going to try a STS style rear mount setup

You can get a generic type 3 bar GM map sensor pretty cheap, and make a mount for it behind your intake manifold. Keeps it out of the way. I tapped in another barb on the back of the intake manifold for the MAP sensor and Tee'd the boost (well vac for me :() gauge off of that.

3) PCV system should work just fine mate, dont see why you would need to change it?

4) Get one of these http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=24831 I got one on ebay for $15 US delivered. One hole is for an oil sender unit, the other bigger hole is an oil feed for the rear turbo, stock looking and cheap.

5) Why not go a fully programmable ECU?
That's all I can help you with dude :( Getting the work done at ART?

;1212816']You can get a generic type 3 bar GM map sensor pretty cheap, and make a mount for it behind your intake manifold. Keeps it out of the way. I tapped in another barb on the back of the intake manifold for the MAP sensor and Tee'd the boost (well vac for me :() gauge off of that.
ok


;1212816']3) PCV system should work just fine mate, dont see why you would need to change it?

I've come across alot of info about it, seems the boost pressurises the crankcase and starts to blow seals etc. (maybe the 6g74 pcv is setup to handle boost??), here's one link:
http://www.junkyardturbos.com/Turbo-PCV-Systems.php


;1212816']4) Get one of these http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=24831 I got one on ebay for $15 US delivered. One hole is for an oil sender unit, the other bigger hole is an oil feed for the rear turbo, stock looking and cheap.

thanks!, that's exactly what i was looking for


;1212816']5) Why not go a fully programmable ECU?
That's all I can help you with dude :( Getting the work done at ART?

i picked up the interceptor cheap second hand, and will be simpler/easier to tune. only thing stand alone has that i'd like is injector scaling, but i might talk to SKR to see if he can flash something if necessary.

yep i'll prob go to ART for final tuning, i'll try to do the rest myself and or at my local exhaust shop (which is much closer!).

6G72 NA DOHC and 6G72 TT DOHC use the same PCV System. even when people upgrade there 72 DOHC to a 74 DOHC and rebuild it etc the PCV system still stays as it is. I really would not worry about it.

if you really are hell bent on it, This is all I have heard about on the 3000GT forums.
http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=895

the pvc system will work fine as long as the vac lines are ahead of the turbo. If you plan to use one of those expensive and inefficient sts systems this will be hard as the vaccum point you are looking for will be between the air filter and the turbo inlet (as this area wont pressureise)

the pvc system will work fine as long as the vac lines are ahead of the turbo. If you plan to use one of those expensive and inefficient sts systems this will be hard as the vaccum point you are looking for will be between the air filter and the turbo inlet (as this area wont pressureise)

ok, yeah i thought that may be the case, i'll find out what the 350Z guys are doing, maybe they run the line back there.
expensive!? this is much cheaper than a normal turbo setup with custom manifolds/dumpipes, relocating engine components etc.. I know rear mounts were bagged when they first came out a 4 or 5 years ago, but since people have actually installed/driven them, they've been widely excepted in the US.

im not going to bag them out; its the easiest option when compared to a traidional setup. Just because the US like them doesnt make them good, sure, they are better then nothing, but its like driving with your feet. Sure you can do it; but it dont make it a good idea.

for the pvc system they will just vent it to astmosphere

basically both liens from both heads will go to a catch can with a filter on top. That way you dont need to run the line back to the inlet tract.

ill also add that if you go ahead with this, get a thick walled, mild sized (2-1/4) mild steel exhaust and get the whole exhasut HPC coated including headers. Turbochargers work more on the principle of heat and speed of exhaust gas not flow, which by the end of the exhaust is rather slow and cooler as gas slows down in a fixed size pipe with reduced temp. Keep the temp up and the fspeed will stay up and you will get a more efficent system.

im not going to bag them out; its the easiest option when compared to a traidional setup. Just because the US like them doesnt make them good, sure, they are better then nothing, but its like driving with your feet. Sure you can do it; but it dont make it a good idea.

for the pvc system they will just vent it to astmosphere

basically both liens from both heads will go to a catch can with a filter on top. That way you dont need to run the line back to the inlet tract.

Pretty sure thats illegal in Victoria. All oily vapor must re-route into the engine and not atmosphere.

ill also add that if you go ahead with this, get a thick walled, mild sized (2-1/4) mild steel exhaust and get the whole exhasut HPC coated including headers. Turbochargers work more on the principle of heat and speed of exhaust gas not flow, which by the end of the exhaust is rather slow and cooler as gas slows down in a fixed size pipe with reduced temp. Keep the temp up and the fspeed will stay up and you will get a more efficent system.

yeah i agree it's not the best setup. the AWD engine bay, with the A/T and centre diff, would just take a huge amount of custom fabrication. One other option is to see if the turbo will fit low behind the engine next to the diff, with a simple up/down pipe, but i have a feeling there's not enough room.

Will definately heat wrap/lag the entire exhaust (looking into oem style heat blanketing) + a turbo blanket.

TuffTR i think you're right about it having to go back into the intake.

im pretty sure you will have to break the rules to get this working anyways so dont get hung up about the oil vapour being vented to atmo. Yes its illegal, but unless you're having the whole lot engineered anyways something somewhere else on the car will be illegal, if not already

Just mount the turbo over the tranny. people do that all the time on the 3000GT forums and they have no issues. its tight but it works

im pretty sure you will have to break the rules to get this working anyways so dont get hung up about the oil vapour being vented to atmo. Yes its illegal, but unless you're having the whole lot engineered anyways something somewhere else on the car will be illegal, if not already

yep it's already got a few issues


Just mount the turbo over the tranny. people do that all the time on the 3000GT forums and they have no issues. its tight but it works

i would like to if it's reasonably easy to do. are they using custom manifolds or are there kits available? did a search but couldn't find much.

there are header pipes floating around time to time, although not hard to fab up (any shop that can do the intake plumbing can make them) figure out what turbo you want/need fingure out how you want it possitioned over the gearbox to allow for linkages to be out of the way, and then make up a few elbows that mate up to the turbo to the existing headers. MOst turbos will have the outlet facing to the pasenger side when placed over the gearbox faving froward so this sets up a good angle to run a hot pipe to the passenger side so you can have a front mount without having to use a U styled item (often found on rb25 turbo skylines kits) but it doesnt really matter just remember that the housings can be rotated so when its installed make sure the oil drain is at the bottom of the bearing housing (chra) you can then rotate the exhaust housing to mate up to the header pipes you made and you can also rotate the compressor housing to get a good low profile angle on the hot pipe to clear the bonnet or other bits and bobs.

For ease defeintely use a internally gated turbo. Size wise you would want something like a 30/40 or a td06 - 10cm these turbos will leave a lot of potential but will make a solid 20psi on a 3L motor before starting to get out of there effiencey range, which is more then a stock motor will handle at standard compression 10:1

ok maybe i'll have another good look into front mounting the turbo before going rear mount. It has at least been done and proven. water to air intercooling might be a good idea too, would save a lot of extra pipework. i guess in the end too i want throttle response/boost at low revs as a street car, which a front mount will definately give.

I already have most things ready to install - turbo, wastegate, injectors, ecu, fuel pump, etc. Turbo is a garrett GT3076R external gate 0.86 a/r which i chose after doing the compressor/turbine map calculations, it should be nice and responsive on this engine. wastegate is a tial MV-S so hopefully small enough to fit.

good choice of turbo. WIll be very nice on a hi-comp 3L you will only reliably acheive 7-10psi but it will be nice to drive especially being 4wd

for the gains water to air is good but a lot lot cheaper to go front mount instead

AWD Magna is a 3.5L :P

Well on an AWD in terms of money, performance and simplifying the build i'd be looking at a TT set up.

Dimensionally i believe the rear mount turbo is a pain in the ass as you dont have the room to play with being all wheel drive. Like said turbos work due to the heat expansion of the gases once released from the hi pressure in the combustion chamber so it will be pretty inefficient and the torque will suffer which youll be wanting.

If you want i have 3000gt Tt manifolds here if you want to see whether the exhaust ports match up. There is a chance they will. From there you can buy some turbos td04 9bs for shit all and convert them if necessary using the wrx 19t td04's if your looking to run for higher boost.
The 3000gt set up would run your hot side towards your intake unless you could alter it. With this you could utilise the tiny bit of space above you gbox to sit a water 2 air intercooler with 2 inlets 1 outlet to the t/b. This would have a very very very short intake path, with wicked throttle response.
While youll make good power with the single turbo again youll have a mess of piping running over your gbox and the manifolds will cost a shitload to build and youll again maximise your intake length.

tuning wise - id be calculating the theoretical amount of fuel needed to be provided and check that the injectors will need minimal adjustment from the factory duty cycles. Of course the inj's characteristics will not match perfectly but itll save you future hassles, also it'll save you paying a shitload more as the tuner has to make 1000 more adjustments.

These are simply thoughts off the top of my head.

;1214037']AWD Magna is a 3.5L :P

if thats the case, then that turbo will be sweet as. They start to run out of puff on SR's at about 26psi so a displacement nearly twice the size with slightly higher compression you would expect to be able to get a pretty solid 1bar with great response but obviously an unbuilt 6g wont take too much of that.

to be honest ive never taken that much notice of 3rd gens so i couldnt tell one from another

I'll post some pictures of the 3000GT single turbo setups on tuesday so stay tuned.

The 3000GT TT manifold will not bolt up. Tried before. Also DOHC have oval exhaust ports, SOHC have round exhaust ports.

Although there is more piping in the end theres only 1 x turbo, 1 x set of coolant lines and 1 x set of oil lines. 1 x is alot easier then 2 x of everything.

Anyway yeah jowet I'll post some pictures tuesday and see if that does anything for you, could even use them as reference really even though its the other way around.

Well on an AWD in terms of money, performance and simplifying the build i'd be looking at a TT set up.

looked into this but as tufftr said the 6g72tt manifolds don't bolt up, so would have to go custom anyway. but i see what u mean if you could fit small turbos that didn't hit anything, the downpipes would simply follow the exising ones etc. already have the single turbo though so will stick with it.


I'll post some pictures of the 3000GT single turbo setups on tuesday so stay tuned.

thanks!

You can run 470cc injectors (thru Raptor or whoever) on a natmo without any idle dramas whatsoever - As long as you've got about 25% duty cycle pulled out. Does the Haltech have a 'fueler' mode like the Moristech Prosequential? I.e. normally an intercepter will bend EVERY signal that it needs to. In fueler mode the MT PS ignores the oem ecu outputs for fuel/duty cycle and will fuel as per the made map ONLY. This stops the oem ecu flicking between open and closed loop running which can be an absolute disaster if it tried to achieve 14.7:1 at 7psi!! Best to chat to a few Haltech tuners to make sure you're going to be able to do what you're expecting to achieve. Also, a single snail will be more than fine. HPC is good. You can buy steam pipe too from several places as stainless and normal tubular headers will melt on a turbo manifold if the walls aren't think enough - and usually aren't.

What turbo exhaust/compressor combos are you looking at or have decided on? Been over the compressor maps?

You can run 470cc injectors (thru Raptor or whoever) on a natmo without any idle dramas whatsoever - As long as you've got about 25% duty cycle pulled out. Does the Haltech have a 'fueler' mode like the Moristech Prosequential? I.e. normally an intercepter will bend EVERY signal that it needs to. In fueler mode the MT PS ignores the oem ecu outputs for fuel/duty cycle and will fuel as per the made map ONLY. This stops the oem ecu flicking between open and closed loop running which can be an absolute disaster if it tried to achieve 14.7:1 at 7psi!! Best to chat to a few Haltech tuners to make sure you're going to be able to do what you're expecting to achieve. Also, a single snail will be more than fine. HPC is good. You can buy steam pipe too from several places as stainless and normal tubular headers will melt on a turbo manifold if the walls aren't think enough - and usually aren't.

What turbo exhaust/compressor combos are you looking at or have decided on? Been over the compressor maps?

The interceptor just changes fuelling as a percentage based on MAF input like unichip and others, it doesn't have direct control of the injectors like the moristech. Don't know if it can do 'fueler' mode; how does the moristech stop closed loop occuring?
do u know what OEM turbo cars do for fuelling when on boost in a closed loop situation? i could imagine say a saab turbo on full boost at 30%throttle at 2500rpm.

I'll talk to some tuners to see what they say, also SKR, he might have some options with flashing the ECU.

Got the turbo it's a garrett GT3076R with 0.86 a/r exhaust, and yep chose it based on the compressor maps.

Heres some of the photos I promised
Now yes everything is opposite but should give you the best idea on how to run pipes.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/1FastStealth.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/3.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/4.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/4b4bd4c3bd4.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/6857rc8-1.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/6ba350ab2a3-1.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/9f745741096.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/badass.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/a79c8e14217-1.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/DSC_0257.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/DSC_0262.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/DSC_0305-1.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/DSCN0431-1.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/DSCN0380.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/Ferdigmedmotoren-1.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/img0420pd7-1.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/img0421gp6.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/JeffsVR4engPics0001.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/JeffsVR4engPics0002.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/JeffsVR4engPics0003.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/wefe.jpg

that white one is porn. do that!!

Hidden wiring loom in that one, Same thing I'll be doing cept my fusebox is in the standard location.

thanks! yeah the white one looks great