Hi everyone, I've had a problem with my V6 TF

The last week or so I've had intermittent stalling and rough idle issues on both LPG and petrol.
It happens when the car is first started.. will run for about 10 seconds then sounds like it's starving for fuel and stalls.

Then when taking off the revs will struggle to go up and drop back to idle speed, if I plant the foot it sputters a bit then is fine after it gets to about 1.5k rpm..

Once the car is at normal running temperature it runs perfectly fine, and this doesn't happen every time, probably 1 in 6 days.

I did an ECU reset yesterday and it was fine when I started it this morning but it's a bit of a worry should it happen in heavy traffic.
The same thing happened once about 3 months ago but was fine after an ECU reset, until last week.

Any idea's?

EDIT:
Just did it to me again leaving work to go for lunch.
Reverse out of the car park onto the road fine, shifted into first, about 5 metres after taking off the engine lost power but didn't stall, pulled over.. Reverse out again and took off no problem..

Ran fine again today..
Hmm..

And running fine again today.. grr..

I might try cleaning the throttle body, been putting this off for a few weeks but it does look quite dirty.
Do I have to dismantle it or can I just clean it without pulling off the tps and isc ?

Cleaned throttle body (left on, just cleaned with a rag and carby cleaner) also cleaned out PCV valve.
Appears to be running better but won't know if it's fixed because it was intermittent.

I also found that the last time I did the rear plugs the throttle cable came out of it's guide on the throttle body so that may have been causing the issue?.

Will see how it goes.

The dreaded misfire under load is back.

It does it quite frequently in 2nd on LPG, less frequently in 2nd on petrol..
The engine keeps running, if I pull over for a few seconds the problem is gone.
Originally this only happened on LPG, now petrol does it too so I'm assuming my ignition system is preparing to die.

Idling is now rough too..

I replaced all plugs with NGK Iridium about 2,000k ago, leads are topgun and about 20,000k old.

What should I check next ?
I'm thinking of taking it to a mechanic to get is diagnosed properly.

no one wants to talk to you about it mate? lol.. mines having a bit of a splutter at idle to but mines not on gas.. Being that your cars on LPG it could be so many different things hey!.. LPG isnt to good on the valve seats but i wouldnt think theyd be fine one day then nasty the next ..

check the battery...

sounds like a load-related lack of spark, but only after the car has been recently started (when the drain on the battery is high), which goes away when the car is warm (after the alternator has had a chance to charge the battery for a while).

cheers,
.wook

I had a same stalling issues at start up, but went away after I replaced the battery. How old is your battery?

No Idea how old the battery is. It's atleast 6 months old though..

Will swap batteries with my wife for a while and see how it goes..

A 6 month old battery shouldn't be causing problems... then again, a lot of batteries are now imported and are nothing short of just plain crap. Even the dearer imported ones may not be designed to cope with too many hard jolts and harsh vibration you may have on some Aussie roads.

My Verada did the Same thing and after going through every thing it turned out to be the O2 senor
I have the same things happen.

Hmm, might disconnect the o2 sensor for a while and see how it goes..

I have a Ke verada with a very similar issue.
battery <9 months old.
MAF sensor replaced.
any ideas?

O2 sensor is nto used when engine cold

Could be the dist, the coil inside may be on its way out

Somehting like this is hard to diagnose as you need to get the car to continue to do this to diagnose

The Car had a diagnostic check from the mechanic, no problems arose. Would diagnostic check tell you if the coil was going?

The Car had a diagnostic check from the mechanic, no problems arose. Would diagnostic check tell you if the coil was going?

Nope. HAL sensor inside the distributor or ignition coil being weak wouldn't show up in diagnostics. Pull it off and get it checked by a pro with the right equipment. Look for "EFI specialist" (or similar) in your area.
Without the correct test equipment you are just guessing and replacing parts on a "it might be this" basis, time consuming.

You have checked the ignition leads and distributor cap for damage, moisture etc? If the problem is worse after cool wet or damp overnight weather it is probably moisture getting into the electrics. Maybe wait for a wet evening then start it from cold in the dark and look for arcing on the plug leads and distributor cap?

Something like this is hard to diagnose as you need to get the car to continue to do this to diagnose

Tell me about it lol.. last time I had an intermittent problem like this I couldn't get it to do it for the mechanic..
I will get the dizzy and coil checked, since the car is on LPG and the issue was originally only existent on LPG then it probably is an ignition system wear issue..

O2 sensor is nto used when engine cold



So until the o2 sensor heats up does it just send no signal ?
If it happens it only ever happens in the first 2 - 3k of driving, once the engine is up to normal temperature it's fine.
But also I can go two weeks without it happening, car being frosted over or bone dry doesn't seem to make a difference to when it happens..

Ive heard of problems with topgun leads, i would have them tested. I belive LPG requires a decent spark so if it is missing more on lpg, then the leads may cause the issues your having if they are just beginning to fail

Ive heard of problems with topgun leads, i would have them tested. I belive LPG requires a decent spark so if it is missing more on lpg, then the leads may cause the issues your having if they are just beginning to fail

how long to topgun leads last generally?

What sort of LPG system is it? Mixer or injected?

Have you had it looked at seeing as it started on the LPG first?

What sort of LPG system is it? Mixer or injected?

Have you had it looked at seeing as it started on the LPG first?

Mixer, it was going to take a month to get the LPG looked at plus it's in another town Mon-Fri which makes it really difficult/impossible to put the car in..

No idea on actual lifespan of topgun leads, just have talked to a couple of guys who had probs with them, even from new.

Mixer, it was going to take a month to get the LPG looked at plus it's in another town Mon-Fri which makes it really difficult/impossible to put the car in..


Can you unhook the LPG & replace the elbow from the airbox to the TB with a standard one? Just to see how the car operates on petrol alone? With no interference from the LPG mixer?

Can you unhook the LPG & replace the elbow from the airbox to the TB with a standard one? Just to see how the car operates on petrol alone? With no interference from the LPG mixer?

Thanks for the idea!
I didn't do what you suggested but I did notice today that where the LPG hose connects to the intake elbow the sealant had all fallen off, there was barely any seal between the hose and the elbow, I've taken if off, tightened up and applied some o2 safe sealant I did this about 20 minutes ago so I'll wait an hour or two and see how it runs.. I'm not sure if this was causing the issue but as there was definitely air getting into the intake around the edge of the hose I'd say it's a high chance this was the cause..

When I had similar issues with my old TF, with mixer system, it was the leads. New Bosch gas friendly leads fixed it.

When I had similar issues with my old TF, with mixer system, it was the leads. New Bosch gas friendly leads fixed it.

t may well be my imagination but the car seems to be running better with the LPG hose joint sealed up, will see how it goes before I say it's fixed.

had same prob with mine on gas, i thinkit was fuel delivery on injectors, the dash light is out but still low pressure for accell. Try running on petrol for 5 mins before shut down for the night and see how it is the next day. be careful of backfire with gas as mine damaged the converter and blew the air box off.

had same prob with mine on gas, i thinkit was fuel delivery on injectors, the dash light is out but still low pressure for accell. Try running on petrol for 5 mins before shut down for the night and see how it is the next day. be careful of backfire with gas as mine damaged the converter and blew the air box off.

I run mine on PULP 95/98 probably 50-60% of the time (due to being a lead foot) I use the LPG mainly on long trips or when the petrol gets low (living in the country means I do 4k a day to get to and from work so a tank of petrol lasts a fortnight)
I recently run some injector cleaner through too, I'm very mindful of the injectors, if i do a 500k trip 50k of it will be on PULP, I did some driving around today on LPG after fixing the hose connection and the shuddering, hesitation etc seems to be gone and the power is up slightly, my wife can't notice it so either I'm really perceptive of how my car runs or I'm imagining it's better...

Still got this issue which is gradully getting worse, now showing up on petrol aswell as LPG.
I checked dizzy and rotor which look fairly worn/corroded so I've ordered new cap and rotor..

Eagle leads are really good (and Australian).

Check out these leads:
http://www.eagleproducts.com.au/products_8_eliminator_lpg.php

Other leads here:
http://www.eagleproducts.com.au/products_leads.php

They have a 1300 ohms per metre Ferrite Spiral Core conductor, much less that other brands (including Bosch) which are 5000 ohm + (apparently). The lower the ohms, the bigger the spark at the plug. The new technology in these leads means they are very low RF and exceed the requirements.

Too bad this cable isn't available for the Magna (you could probably still get them, not in the set though):
http://www.eagleproducts.com.au/products_11_eliminator.php

Still street legal too, but 325 ohms/m. probably wouldn't notice the difference unless you've done extreme engine mods and turbo'd etc.

so you've definitely ruled out the battery? just throw a multimeter on it and see what it's running.

so you've definitely ruled out the battery? just throw a multimeter on it and see what it's running.

Yup, swapped with my wifes 3 month old battery, hers is running fine on mine, mine still has the issue..
It's no longer just happening when the car is cold, drove to melbourne, after 150k of highway driving it was hesitating on gas on the nepean (with a cop tailing me)
it's now starting to hesitate on petrol too just not as bad as gas but I can just notice it.

It was at it's worst a week ago, drove out of Glenrowan maccas and while doing about 80 in third it lost all power and hesitated the worst it has (on petrol) came good within about 10 seconds..

We're looking at upgrading my wifes TH sedan to a station wagon, it's done about 120,000 so I'll probably take her car and swap parts off mine (I told her the only condition is she stops putting ULP91 in it and fills it up before the light comes on) I'm now debating wether I will sell mine, or strip the manual box out of it, I will be swapping suspension and a lot of other stuff..
With these issues I may not be able to sell it for a reasonale price so stripping/parting out may work out better..

OK, put the new dizzy cap and rotor on, I'm not sure if aftermarket caps are different to genuine but the contacts on the dizzy cap are about three times longer on the new cap.
The old cap and rotor were really bad compared to the new ones, end of rotor was black and bubbly looking and there was white stuff all over the contacts which looked like battery corrosion.
As the problem was intermittent I'm not going to say it's fixed.. However, it's idling smoother, hasn't hesitated on LPG yet, engine doesn't shudder like hell when I turn the car off, starts quicker, engine doesn't shudder when taking the foot off the throttle suddenly.
Problem is, it ran similar to this after replacing the spark plugs for 200 - 300k then went to crap again..

:( While the dizzy cap and rotor has made the car run a lot better, stopped the hesitation on gas, I still have the suddent loss of power and rough idle issue.
Left home after lunch (car was at running temp) drove off, revs dropped down to under 1k, with the foot off the pedal the revs were sputtering between 400 - 700 but didn't stall.
foot on the pedal just made it sputter more, then after about 30 seconds the revs went to normal idle speed and off I went with no problems..
This occured on Petrol, but also occurs on LPG

This is driving me insane and broke!

So far to fix this issue I have

Replaced spark plugs.
checked for vaccume leaks
spark plug leads
dizzy cap
dizzy rotor
battery
cleaned throttle body
replaced air filter

I have a mate with a Hilux who had similar problems. Turned out to be his LPG system causing problems. Don't remember what exactly, but might be an idea.

The most annoying thing is that it doesn't happen all the time, otherwise I could get it diagnosed by a mechanic..
I might check the wiring for the LPG, maybe the joins (from when I rerouted the cables) are coming loose.

Ok, the problem is now happening a couple times a week so I might be able to get it diagnosed properly in 6 months...

A trick I used myself and also for other people with Commodores running on dual fuel was to alter the spark gap from the recommended 1.5mm to 1.0mm...this allows the plug to fire easier and at a lower voltage meaning that an ignition system that is not 100% can still fire the plugs OK. I'm not sure what the proper gap for Magnas is, but I'd reduce it by 33%.
The other reason for the smaller gap is that when running on gas, the gas/air mixture gives a higher electrical resistance to the spark jumping the plug gap than a petrol/air mixture and cars running on gas need a smaller plug gap.....also usually need the best quality leads to stop them breaking down. Reducing the gap cannot cause any harm although it would be a pain to do on the rear bank. Best of all it's free. Good Luck.

In my attempt to fix the issue I threw in 0.8mm gap plugs..


A trick I used myself and also for other people with Commodores running on dual fuel was to alter the spark gap from the recommended 1.5mm to 1.0mm...this allows the plug to fire easier and at a lower voltage meaning that an ignition system that is not 100% can still fire the plugs OK. I'm not sure what the proper gap for Magnas is, but I'd reduce it by 33%.
The other reason for the smaller gap is that when running on gas, the gas/air mixture gives a higher electrical resistance to the spark jumping the plug gap than a petrol/air mixture and cars running on gas need a smaller plug gap.....also usually need the best quality leads to stop them breaking down. Reducing the gap cannot cause any harm although it would be a pain to do on the rear bank. Best of all it's free. Good Luck.

it's just an idea but have you tried cleaning the EGR valve, and making sure that it's not sticking open? i've had cold start hesitation problems on our other car (Barina SRi) that was caused by the EGR valve occasionally sticking open - engine would splutter and cough when cold but work fine once it warmed up.

Most cars have a purge solenoid which vents the charcoal canister into the manifold so that unburnt petrol/fumes are removed from the charcoal...basically drying the charcoal. What can happen is that the purge solenoid can stick open with high mileage allowing straight air into the intake manifold and a weakening of the mixture.
Now I don't know where the Magna one is, but there should be one somewhere. My experience with this is from Commodores where it is a rare but not unknown problem. On Commodores the way to test is to simply clamp the hose that goes from the solenoid to thwe inlet manifold shut....if the idle smooths then it could be the purge solenoid.
Re lith's suggestion above, had the same problem in an old KB Laser.
Good Luck.

The saga continues.
(BTW, TF's don't have EGR)
Took the car to a mechanic, they fitted a manual power valve to the LPG which has fixed the LPG issues but not the idle surging crap.
They said the O2 sensor is responding slowly which is causing the engine to lean out, it's much better on LPG with the manual power vavle (which are apparently illegal on newer LPG systems)
I've ordered a genuine Mitsubishi O2 sensor which I hould have by the weekend.
I took off the ISC today and gave everything a good clean, will see how it goes, the next step is to replace the ISC if the surging crap continues..

Ok, car has been much better since cleaning our the ISC, was filthy! now idling steady at 900ish rather than 1200ish.
I'll be convinced it worked if I don't get any idle issue within 2 months.

In regards to the LPG issue, i fitted a new genuine O2 sensor today, plugged the auto power valve back in and and could see that the valve was actually now opening and closing quickly while pulling the throttle cable rather than taking for ages.. so, I took out the manual power valve and connected the auto valve and went for a drive, no engine warning lights or hesitation.. :)

Finally fixed!! Cleaned out the ISC housing and replaced the o-ring which had somehow come out of place and was floating around inside..
I've done a trip to QLD, and numerous trips around town and no idle surging!!!!