K. Need a definite answer here if possible as I don't have money to see if something "may work"

This is the Diamante. Sounds like I'm driving a Astron with chain rattle which is quite frankly, embarrassing.

Changed the oil to Magnatec and was fine for 2-3 weeks. Now instead of just 2-3 seconds of lifter tick its there all the time.

Is this just a simple case of too thin of an oil (10w-40) when it never happened before?

If it is....Penrite this time Me thinks.

Unfortunately I dont think there is an easy fix here Paul. I had the lifters done on my KS Verada last year but by the sounds of it wasnt nearly as bad as yours. But then again could it be something else as you say it wasnt there when you purchased the car. Mine on the other hand was ticking from day one when I picked mine up from the seller

I do agree is one of those things that MUST be fixed as it drove me round the bend till I had it fixed

Good luck with it mate

Yeah never happened, I've had it randomly go away until I give it a small Rev again, I'm pretty sure it's just a thin oil but Just wanted confirmation...

Paul.
The simple answer is for a lifter tick is that they need replacing. They have valves internally which both block and also the springs are minute and will after time prevent the valve from holding pressure

You can try giving the engine a good internal flush and then using HPR15 or similar but is hit or miss to be honest

Quite often they will settle after some driving as they will gum up with sitting around and also from short runs etc but the only real answer is replacement and not with cheap fleabay crapola either

FFS. Few nights in St.Kilda should get me enough money to fix everything.

Mm....Think I'll give the HPR a go first. Sucks as I got another 48 used lifters here but NFI if they are any good either!

mind you I had my lifters done as mentioned and there is still a slight tick noise that I can hear. My mechanic thinks its something else but I dont know. he said that there was quite a bit of carbon build up due to the fact that the previous owner did not do regular oil changes

I am now using Valvoline Engine Armour Oil with my KS, 15W40 I am pretty sure, perhaps thats not thick enough?

what is HPR??? do you need to drop the oil straight after you use this and run the engine for a while??

[TUFFTR] - I use Pro-ma MBL8 with each oil change in my 4cyl and it made quite a difference to this.. it wasn't completely eliminated but it was heaps better, esp with a smidgey more than the recommended amount (then again the recommended amount seems debatable, still less than I've read in some instruction sets to use)

Also using penrite oil.. I can't remember what variety of HPR* we were using sorry.

what is HPR??? do you need to drop the oil straight after you use this and run the engine for a while??

Penrite Oil

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/motor-oil/hpr

I believe the lifters i bought and got shipped here for like 120$. Swap them over - pow fix, except i've been too lazy.

There's an ongoing group buy on 3si.

keep me informed about that group buy....

paul,
The spares you have, give each a clean and a bleed, if they are firm the chances are that they will be ok. If spongy post bleed then they are shagged

Remove the rocker cover, turn each set onto the back of the cam and see if the rocker has movement, this will show you where the bad ones are

With the post about noise post new ones going in, on the third gen especially, it is vital that the rockers are pulled apart, properly cleaned and the bleed holes in the rockers are properly cleaned out, if not done you will end up with ticking again fairly quickly

In the interests of motoring engineering and science and for the good of the AMC community I'll sponsor you a can of Liqui Moly Tappet Stop Noise

Liqui-Moly Tappet Stop Noise dampens the noise caused by worn hydraulic lifters/tappets. It cleans valves, guides and bores and promotes optimum operation without affecting oil viscosity. Suitable for all petrol, diesel and LPG engines. Compatible with all commercially available mineral and synthetic motor oils. Safe and effective for turbocharged and supercharged engines.
2783 .......... $15.95 300ml

http://www.motoractive.com.au/SPECIALTY_products10.php?subcat=Liqui-Moly&subsubcat=Oil%20Additives

You'll have to buy it from Supercheap or something . PM me a Paypal account or we'll work out something.

You'

[TUFFTR] - I use Pro-ma MBL8
I myself used to use Pro-Ma MBL8 to cure my pesky lifter tick in the VR-4. Feck it was embarassing - especially when driving through the McDonalds drive-thru.

Almost all the VR-4 boys use it as a fix while saving up to get them done because it costs over $1700 for us to get it fixed.
Don't use any other product exept Pro-Ma. I've tried Liqui-Moly and Wynn's. None of them work for heavy lifter tick (see my review (http://ozvr4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4506&highlight=liqui-moly) on that Liqui-Moly rubbish).

If you need a to get rid of the sound for now, use the Pro-Ma MBL8. You'll be glad you did bro. Trust me.
Only half a bottle is needed on every oil change and you're set. It's almost like magic once you pour it in. And the MBL8 is a good additive for worn out and older engines.

You can purchase here (http://www.fueloiltreatments.com.au/Technical/MBL8%20Oil%20additive.html) for $36 including overnight express postage anywhere in Australia.
I've purchased over seven bottles with them in the past.

(Thank god i drive a 1JZ now lol)

http://denwood.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/50083-mbl8.jpg

So you going to sponsor ?

Oh dear, i must have trod on someone's delicate toes when i slammed their recommended product down.

Hey, it's the truth though. Liqui-Moly doesn't work for heavy lifter noise. I've tried it. And that's that.

the thing i didnt like about the Pro_Ma is that it separates in oil. I can only imagine it settling in the bottom of the sump over a couple days (which is all it takes mind you.) and then being sucked up in 1 big nice gulp by the pickup. I used it on my Verada back in the day when i first bought it.

Oh dear, i must have trod on someone's delicate toes when i slammed their recommended product down.

Hey, it's the truth though. Liqui-Moly doesn't work for heavy lifter noise. I've tried it. And that's that.

I'm not offended ... just thought you might be interested in doing a bit of mythbusting.

On another note though I see you guys over at VR-4 of which I'm a forum member are using some very light weight oils for high performance engines and not using a quality Penrite oil that has been recommended here before.

As said before if you have a poor maintenance schedule and use inferior oils then you are probably going to develop problems early in an engine's life.

If you still have light lifter tick like I do post getting them replaced what additive would I use??

Going to use a thicker oil first. If that fails I will buy some Pro-Ma.

Keep the discussion going.

A good engine oil flush, the use say, Penrite HPR10 and add Nulon Lifter tune up and free.

If the oil is too thick, it takes too long to drain away from the top of the engine and it slowly carbonises. A too old of an oil (well over service interval) will have the same result.

For the 2.4L 4 cylinder or 3.0/3.5L the Penrite HPR10 is about as thick as you would want to go, as really the need for HPR15 is only if you are burning oil even after using something like Nulon Engine Stop Leak.

In the Nulon lube guide accessible here: http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/NulonAus/default.asp for a TH 3.0 or 3.5L they recommend as low as a 5w-30, for a lower mileage TE or TF it should also be fine, it just comes down to the current wear state of the engine.

For a Magna TS 3.0 V6 Penrite web site recommends a HPR 15 ie 15W / 60

Here's the link and you can play around with it ... http://www.penriteoil.com.au/oil_selector.php

As Burfadel says your first course of action should be to get your car back on a service schedule ie regular oil changes by flushing the engine , using a good quality oil and trying a lifter tune up at that first oil change.

As a discussion point not an argument - I'd probably go the heavier weight oil my reasoning being that it would offer greater protection on an older engine. That's why I made the point in regards to the high performance Galant / Legnum engines especially if these cars are put under load ...
I'd be using a heavier weight oil in that application as well. Some guys were suggesting using a 0w oil personally I think that may cause to much heat to pass to the turbo and result in mechanical failure.

Of course the damage may well and truly have been done and then off course there is little alternative than undertaking mechanical repair.

For a Magna TS 3.0 V6 Penrite web site recommends a HPR 15 ie 15W / 60

Here's the link and you can play around with it ... http://www.penriteoil.com.au/oil_selector.php

As Burfadel says your first course of action should be to get your car back on a service schedule ie regular oil changes by flushing the engine , using a good quality oil and trying a lifter tune up at that first oil change.

As a discussion point not an argument - I'd probably go the heavier weight oil my reasoning being that it would offer greater protection on an older engine. That's why I made the point in regards to the high performance Galant / Legnum engines especially if these cars are put under load ...
I'd be using a heavier weight oil in that application as well. Some guys were suggesting using a 0w oil personally I think that may cause to much heat to pass to the turbo and result in mechanical failure.

Of course the damage may well and truly have been done and then off course there is little alternative than undertaking mechanical repair.

Tis actually a 3000GT motor, but same goes, HPR10 or next choice, HPR15.

Now I should of taken a picture of the inside of the rear head. It was so immaculate I couldn't believe what I was seeing. 250xxxK's and the rear head didnt even have any coppery discoloration in it. Unreal. Totally clean, no gunk or build up or anything. Would be a great motor behind a manual.

Anyway. Dunno why I used magnatec, Think it was on sale and I'm like, meh why not. Stupid choice really as now I'll have to change oil again. Lovely.

I use some random lifter noise stop in with my oil.. Made by Nulon that makes that Octane Boost crap, But this seems to work perfect on every magna i've had Paul.

Should be around $14.95 at any supercheap or autobahn
http://www.autobarn.com.au/AB_images/products/images/prod_1194477278.jpg

Yeah the Nulon site recommends a 5W-30 firstly for a TH 3.0/3.5 litre and onwards and a 10w-40 for the TE/TF. They also recommend heavier oils after that, such as a 15w-50. The reason why the TE/TF and TH onwards is different is simply due to expected engine wear and age.

The pro's of a 5w-x or 10w-x from Penrite/Nulon etc are better oil drain from the top of the engine (reduces possibility of the carbonisation that causes the noise you are experiencing), and the possibility of slightly improved fuel economy expecially from the 5W (a couple of percent). Well that is at least Nulon's claims, an unlike foreign companies making the same claims being Australian they have to meet the Australian regulations involving such claims...

The cons of the 5w-x/10w-x oil is on a worn engine it could lead to burning oil. A high mileage motor in good nick and with good seals should be fine with it. Another downside is on a worn motor it may not be suitable, although a molydenum disulphide additive may help in that case.

The pro's of a heavier oil is better protection on a worn engine, downside is carbonisation and possibly slightly worse fuel economy.

It works both ways in terms of what's best in your situation. Going to a too thick of an oil is just as bad or possibly worse than going to a too thin of an oil. If you have had regular services and you have carbonisation problems, maybe a thinner oil than you are currently using would be better, such as the Penrite HPR 10 (semi synthetic) or the Nulon '100% synthetic 10W-40 hi-tech fast flowing engine oil'. If you aren't burning oil the Penrite HPR 5 or Nulon 5w-30 may be a good choice, especially if your engine is in otherwise good nick and is under 200,000km.

As you can see here with the Penrite pages, they actually recommend HPR 10 with the TF 3.0 through to the TW 3.5:
TF 3.0:
http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.php?site=42&sector=1&category=6&subset=224&vehicle=6143
TW 3.5:
http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.php?site=42&sector=1&category=6&subset=224&vehicle=35175

These pages were linked to from:
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/oil_selector.php
(the Penrite website)

Paul, Im not gonna comment about the lifter tick but I can recommend that you put a bottle of Morey's or Lucas oil additive with your oil changes. I run a 10W-50 in my TE with a full bottle of Morey's and my oil still is clean as and never had a lifter tick or a nasty sounding start up on a cold morning. Ran this stuff with my 2.6 Turbo to help extend oil life and same thing, would sit on 6,000rpm all day and oil came back clean. Pure love and worth the extra $20 when doing an oil change for that extra piece of mind. You choice to take this information on board but in the last.... 5 years.... never had an issue.

I dont use additives on my car (engine only 33.000kms old) but on my old trooper the moreys oil stabiliser and injector cleaner were worth the money, especially the injector cleaner, has enough for like 160L for $8 (NZ). I use 5W/30W Castrol edge fully synthetic. economy is great and no lifter noise.

A good engine oil flush, the use say, Penrite HPR10 and add Nulon Lifter tune up and free.

If the oil is too thick, it takes too long to drain away from the top of the engine and it slowly carbonises. A too old of an oil (well over service interval) will have the same result.

For the 2.4L 4 cylinder or 3.0/3.5L the Penrite HPR10 is about as thick as you would want to go, as really the need for HPR15 is only if you are burning oil even after using something like Nulon Engine Stop Leak.

In the Nulon lube guide accessible here: http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/NulonAus/default.asp for a TH 3.0 or 3.5L they recommend as low as a 5w-30, for a lower mileage TE or TF it should also be fine, it just comes down to the current wear state of the engine.

Just a reminder, This is not a 2.4L 3rd gen, or even a 3 or 3.5L 3rd gen.


Yeah the Nulon site recommends a 5W-30 firstly for a TH 3.0/3.5 litre and onwards and a 10w-40 for the TE/TF. They also recommend heavier oils after that, such as a 15w-50. The reason why the TE/TF and TH onwards is different is simply due to expected engine wear and age.

The pro's of a 5w-x or 10w-x from Penrite/Nulon etc are better oil drain from the top of the engine (reduces possibility of the carbonisation that causes the noise you are experiencing), and the possibility of slightly improved fuel economy expecially from the 5W (a couple of percent). Well that is at least Nulon's claims, an unlike foreign companies making the same claims being Australian they have to meet the Australian regulations involving such claims...

The cons of the 5w-x/10w-x oil is on a worn engine it could lead to burning oil. A high mileage motor in good nick and with good seals should be fine with it. Another downside is on a worn motor it may not be suitable, although a molydenum disulphide additive may help in that case.

The pro's of a heavier oil is better protection on a worn engine, downside is carbonisation and possibly slightly worse fuel economy.

It works both ways in terms of what's best in your situation. Going to a too thick of an oil is just as bad or possibly worse than going to a too thin of an oil. If you have had regular services and you have carbonisation problems, maybe a thinner oil than you are currently using would be better, such as the Penrite HPR 10 (semi synthetic) or the Nulon '100% synthetic 10W-40 hi-tech fast flowing engine oil'. If you aren't burning oil the Penrite HPR 5 or Nulon 5w-30 may be a good choice, especially if your engine is in otherwise good nick and is under 200,000km.

As you can see here with the Penrite pages, they actually recommend HPR 10 with the TF 3.0 through to the TW 3.5:
TF 3.0:
http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.php?site=42&sector=1&category=6&subset=224&vehicle=6143
TW 3.5:
http://ew5.earlweb.com/recommendations.php?site=42&sector=1&category=6&subset=224&vehicle=35175

These pages were linked to from:
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/oil_selector.php
(the Penrite website)

And again, Not a 3rd gen.

Paul, I used Nulon Lifter Noise Reduction Twice in my TR's life, Always fixed it.
Couldn't recommend it more.

I've only used it once on the TF when i bought the car.

Thought this was a good article from Nulon ....

Nulon Lifter-Free and Tune-Up is formulated to harmlessly dissolve and dislodge harmful varnish and carbon deposits that accumulate within and around hydraulic lifters and cam followers.

Hydraulic lifter noise can be caused by several different factors:

1. Mechanical damage to camshaft lobe and/or lifter
2. Broken parts within the lifter e.g. relief valve spring
3. Hard carbon particles blocking relief or delivery ports
4. Sludge, wax or varnish deposits causing a sticky lifter

Nulon Lifter-Free and Tune-Up can be used to remedy causes 3 & 4. Replacement of components is the only remedy for causes 1 & 2.

Nulon Lifter-Free & Tune-Up can be used as an inexpensive method of diagnosing the cause of lifter noise. Simply add a bottle of product to the engine oil. If the noise has not disappeared after 14 days or 500 km, it can be assumed that previous mechanical damage has caused the lifter noise, or the problem could be due to low oil pressure, or insufficient oil volume. If it is established that the oil supply and pressure are adequate, the lifters should then be removed, inspected and replaced accordingly. Inspection of the camshaft lobes should be carried out at the same time.

Lifter noise is often caused by poor maintenance, i.e. not changing oil at the correct intervals. As the oil oxidises and forms hard carbon deposits, particles of the carbon break away and are carried into the lifter, where they accumulate and restrict oil flow. Poor servicing also contributes to the formation of varnish, which reduces tolerances and causes the lifter to stick. While Lifter-Free & Tune-Up will resolve these problems, one should not ignore the damage that these deposits cause elsewhere in the engine. Care should be exercised in establishing suitable oil change intervals. At the same time it is good practice to always flush the engine prior to oil and filter change to help rid the system of sludge and carbon. Nulon's Engine Oil Flush is formulated specifically for this purpose.

The use of high viscosity engine oils will contribute to lifter noise as it reduces the flow of oil through the lifter and takes longer to pump up initially. Reduced flow means more opportunity for particles to settle in the lifter. High viscosity oils generally oxidise more readily and produce more carbon. This is because the thicker oil takes longer to drain away from the top of the cylinder head (the hottest lubricated part of the engine). Generally speaking, high viscosity engine oils take longer to drain to the sump for cooling and longer to circulate; hence they do not carry away heat as quickly. This contributes to accelerated oxidation and carbon and sludge formation.

....looks like Shinraa and Burfadel are on the money.

How does the oil in the motor look now it's been in for a bit?
Sometimes a change of brand will clean a motor out, or do wierd things; I'm guessing you won't know what oil the motor was on before ( that left it clean as inside).
magnatec actually stopped the noises in the top end of my Outback (dohc)
If your oil is already foul looking maybe fresh Magnatec is as good as anything, but the only real cure would be the new lifters otherwise you're guessing, and it might cost you as much in oil, additives, filters and time by the time it comes good..

last time i used castrol was 20 odd years ago it destroyed the motor have run shell and mobil oils ever since and race wise its never failed me

yeah the oil debate is rife, 3000GT owners wont use Mobil1 or Castrol Syn.
Strangely enough the tick has just vanished :/ erm yeah.....not sure whats going on there...

We all prayed to the Great God"Magna" to fix your lifters ... it's a miracle.

Strange, seeing as it's the diamante which said problem was fixed in (for now:P)

I still have the lifter tick and I had mine replaced!!! :eeek: I also used a 100ml of that MBL8 I think it is and no change..... Im soooo sad I wish it would just go away like Pauls did. CRY

;1218949']Strange, seeing as it's the diamante which said problem was fixed in (for now:P)

Don't question the Divine One.....your just asking for trouble.

I have been giving it some hell the last few days (Seem 7000RPM a few times) and yeah, maybe that's given it a temp fix.
Note - SOHC 12v 2nd gen will not do 7000RPM.

;1219072']I have been giving it some hell the last few days (Seem 7000RPM a few times) and yeah, maybe that's given it a temp fix.
Note - SOHC 12v 2nd gen will not do 7000RPM.

can they even make it there?

Not standard.

Yeah i run mobil 1; its a good oil. Can only keep the lifters quiet for a while though.

mmm... mobil 1

Castrol Edge 5-30w. quiet as. wont use anything else.

After I've read on many forums (Inc this one) about people spinning bearings with the castrol edge, I wont go near it again. Sorry rob :P

ha ha ah lol well i have faith plus there are plenty of people who have spun bearings on every high performance oil out there so it doesnt worry me!!!