Hey guys, just wondering... (yeh, I've tried using the search function and can't find much...)

What are the differences between the auto and tippy boxes? Specifically speaking, the TJ models (if there's a difference).

Does the Auto suck more power from the engine than the tippy? Or vice versa? So, which one would give the better performance/economy?

Would like to hear peoples thoughts/knowledge about the two transmissions (3 if you include the 5spd tippy), as I am in the market for a 3rd gen, and want to know which trans is best (Except manual, cos I know that is the best, and if I can find a decent manual... well, this thread may not be of use :)) as I don't know as much about the 3rd gens (yet...)

Sooooo, let's hear it!

Cheers,
Matt.

Matty, definitely go for the 5 speed tippy. First and second are very close, just seems to give the car a lil more oomph.

Matty, definitely go for the 5 speed tippy. First and second are very close, just seems to give the car a lil more oomph.

Doesn't the 5 speed tippy only come in the top models (Ralliart/VR-X/Verada)? Or was it an option for all models?

Thanks Ange buddy!

AWD's all have 5spd tiptronic too.

as far as I can tell, the tippy is still an Auto box, so I'd assume that the 4spd auto and 4spd tippy are the same except for the software controlling the gear selection in "manual" mode.

I've read that the 4spd autos 2nd gear goes to about 150kph, whereas 2nd in the 5spd AWD is about 90kph.
So I think the 5 speed's just has 2 gears in place of the 4 speed's 1st gear. gee, does that make sense?

AWD's all have 5spd tiptronic too.

as far as I can tell, the tippy is still an Auto box, so I'd assume that the 4spd auto and 4spd tippy are the same except for the software controlling the gear selection in "manual" mode.

I've read that the 4spd autos 2nd gear goes to about 150kph, whereas 2nd in the 5spd AWD is about 90kph.
So I think the 5 speed's just has 2 gears in place of the 4 speed's 1st gear. gee, does that make sense?

Ahh, forgot about the AWDs :P

Yeah thanks Oggy, that makes sense. cheers!

So basically, the auto and 4spd tippy are the same box, just wth different software? Can anyone else confirm this? Sooo, if I'm not mistaken, there shouldn't be too much difference (if any) between the two boxes (ie, reliability, power loss, etc...)

Cheers! :happy:

ooh, reliability could be fun - I've learnt from reading around here that there is a wave spring that commonly fails in the auto boxes.
I can't remember if this is 4 spd, 5spd or both, but I'm pretty sure it is 3rd gens.

Either way, if Manual is an option it's the one I'd go with even if it means looking for months longer, but that's my 2c ;)

ooh, reliability could be fun - I've learnt from reading around here that there is a wave spring that commonly fails in the auto boxes.
I can't remember if this is 4 spd, 5spd or both, but I'm pretty sure it is 3rd gens.

Either way, if Manual is an option it's the one I'd go with even if it means looking for months longer, but that's my 2c ;)

yeah, well I don't get my licence for 2 months still so I'm keeping my eyes peeled. But it's so hard not to be tempted by cars like this http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=8423324&YearFromShort=1640&__Qpb=true&Cr=8&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|0||pCar_RankSort_Int32 |1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&keywords=&MileageTo=753&__N=1216%201247%201282%201252%201246%204294964597% 204294964374%20901%201640%20%20753&silo=1011&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=90&__sid=127291ADD89A
It's a very nice car and a decent price... but Auto...
I reckon I'll keep hunting, there's a manual TF for sale in the ugly blue/grey colour for under 4k... might go check out both to compare manual vs auto in em...

Soo, does anyone know about this wave spring? Does it get changed at any particular service interval, or it goes when it goes and that's it? There's no problems like this with the manual box?

Ahh, forgot about the AWDs :P

Yeah thanks Oggy, that makes sense. cheers!

So basically, the auto and 4spd tippy are the same box, just wth different software? Can anyone else confirm this? Sooo, if I'm not mistaken, there shouldn't be too much difference (if any) between the two boxes (ie, reliability, power loss, etc...)

Cheers! :happy:

PM Life, he has done heaps of reading on these boxes. If my memory serves me correctly (and Life's research is correct), with a few bits you can convert a 4spd auto to tippy with the same box.

there is no difference between the two 4 speed 'boxes. all of the changes are made in the TCU.

Oggy's right about the length of 2nd in the 4sp... I've done ~160km/h in 2nd. the differences between the 4sp and 5sp are gear ratios and final drive.

the workshop manual has all of the info you need for that.

cheers,
.wook

Doesn't the 5 speed tippy only come in the top models (Ralliart/VR-X/Verada)? Or was it an option for all models?
Came in all TJ Sports/VR-X/Ralliart models, all AWDs, and KJ Series II Veradas onwards. Wasn't an option on any other model.

there is no difference between the two 4 speed 'boxes. all of the changes are made in the TCU.

Oggy's right about the length of 2nd in the 4sp... I've done ~160km/h in 2nd. the differences between the 4sp and 5sp are gear ratios and final drive.

the workshop manual has all of the info you need for that.

cheers,
.wook

Spot on!

4sp tippy is electrical changes only - A convert requires:

- Tippy shifter
- ECU with 4sp tippy (+BEM or removed immob)
- Dash harness and engine harness with 4sp tippy

It's a dash-out job. No real benefits, just wank factor... Manwell is so much better :)

Also another note - 4sp auto and 4sp tippy is THE SAME BOX. Only diff in the engine bay is a shorter inhibitor switch.

Honestly it's not even wank factor! Its STILL a 4sp automatic. Tippy or non tippy, 4sp auto. If your going to go to the effort of ripping out the dash, Convert it to manual or at LEAST a 5sp auto.

what if you've got all the 4sp tippy stuff laying around and you're planning on ripping out the interior anyway? is it still not worth it ;)

Well I guess people will do it anyway as in there head they have improved something.

Hard to say. if the interior is coming out anyway, why not, dunno, why bother aswell?!

Nah I wouldn't bother changing it if there were no improvement. I just thought that the tiptronic might be a bit better than not. But if it's not, then I don't car which I get whether it's tippy or just plain normall auto.

Going to look at a manual TF on Sat's anyways :D

Spot on!

4sp tippy is electrical changes only - A convert requires:

- Tippy shifter
- ECU with 4sp tippy (+BEM or removed immob)
- Dash harness and engine harness with 4sp tippy

It's a dash-out job. No real benefits, just wank factor... Manwell is so much better :)

Also another note - 4sp auto and 4sp tippy is THE SAME BOX. Only diff in the engine bay is a shorter inhibitor switch.



just done this conversion... not quite a dash out job but all the kick pannels and such in both pass and drivers side foot well to get to the tcu/ecu u right though just a bit of wank factor but it does make it a bit more fun to drive... lol.
Didnt have to touch dash harness... although i didnt change my cluster.

You do not have to chage your cluster or dash harness if you do not care about the lights on the dash not showing you what your gear is.

The engine harness, shifter and ECU need changing. If you get one with BEM you can re code keys or you can unlock

In the 4 speed auto, is the same trans. In the 5 speed is obviously different however be also warned that the TCL will cause issues, there are ways around this issue as I have now done 2 and worked the little bugs out of the conversion

Gtrtwinturbo, have you had yours running as yet as you were going to drop over for the unlock but have not heard from you

yeah mal i have.... ive got the shifter and new loom in running off the old ecm fine.. and am now in search of a cluster to suit... all the electronics work and drives fine.... sorry mal was waiting to hear back from u... LOL ill send u a pm

yeah, well I don't get my licence for 2 months still so I'm keeping my eyes peeled. But it's so hard not to be tempted by cars like this http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=8423324&YearFromShort=1640&__Qpb=true&Cr=8&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|0||pCar_RankSort_Int32 |1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&keywords=&MileageTo=753&__N=1216%201247%201282%201252%201246%204294964597% 204294964374%20901%201640%20%20753&silo=1011&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=90&__sid=127291ADD89A
It's a very nice car and a decent price... but Auto...
I reckon I'll keep hunting, there's a manual TF for sale in the ugly blue/grey colour for under 4k... might go check out both to compare manual vs auto in em...

Soo, does anyone know about this wave spring? Does it get changed at any particular service interval, or it goes when it goes and that's it? There's no problems like this with the manual box?

What about this one... dude didn't put it in the right category! (There are too many people out there that don't know what a Ralliart Magna is ... :roflwtf:)

Link:
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=8172257&ref=RecentItem&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal%7C0%7C%7CpCar_RankSort _Int32%7C1%7C%7CpCar_Make_String%7C0%7C%7CpCar_Mod el_String%7C0&__N=1216%201247%201282%201252%201246%204294964597% 204294964374%20901%201640%20%20753&__Nne=15

Holy crap. BARGAIN?!?!?

5 Speed Tippy BlazinTP... or as Mal wld say... Manuel Conversion...
(Me, I'm happy with my 5 Speed Tippy! I luv da Tippy) :) I have 2!

5 Speed Tippy BlazinTP... or as Mal wld say... Manuel Conversion...
(Me, I'm happy with my 5 Speed Tippy! I luv da Tippy) :) I have 2!

haha... mmmmm I would really love a Ralliart!! But may be just outta my price range :( Don't wanna go taking out loans at this stage haha). Well, it's my 21st in 2 weeks... so if anyone on here wants to get me a b'day present, they know what to get me!!!! :)

haha... mmmmm I would really love a Ralliart!! But may be just outta my price range :( Don't wanna go taking out loans at this stage haha). Well, it's my 21st in 2 weeks... so if anyone on here wants to get me a b'day present, they know what to get me!!!! :)
Lol if I win the lotto mate, she's yours ;)


As for the tippy over non tippy, I would still do the conv or choose a tippy over non simply for driveability....
It may not be a manual, but I prefer to be able to have some control over when my auto decides to shift.

you can do the same thing by clicking the shifter back and forth with the regular box, though its not nearly as fast or precise.

you can do the same thing by clicking the shifter back and forth with the regular box, though its not nearly as fast or precise.
lol you just cancelled out your own statement :)

As for the tippy over non tippy, I would still do the conv or choose a tippy over non simply for driveability....
It may not be a manual, but I prefer to be able to have some control over when my auto decides to shift.

Yeah I agree with this.... I'm a massive manual man but I couldn't find a manual good cond magna with low k's and decent features so I ended up getting a tippy instead and I can say that it is good to have - I could never drive full auto because I still want some control of when the gears are changing as you can save lots of ffuel that way and teach the "invecsII" tranny to learn your style better.....if you wanna be the ultimate lazy driver and don't mind not doing anything with the left hand then yeah auto normal is good but if you wanna have some control then the tippy is great to have....yes same box but there is far difference in driving when you can control it alot more.....

Lol if I win the lotto mate, she's yours ;)


As for the tippy over non tippy, I would still do the conv or choose a tippy over non simply for driveability....
It may not be a manual, but I prefer to be able to have some control over when my auto decides to shift.

Umm put it in 1>2>3>4 ? You can still do that in a normal auto :P

;1217285']Umm put it in 1>2>3>4 ? You can still do that in a normal auto :P
Yeah obviously, but its easier and a lot faster/smoother with the up and down IMO anyway.

IMO - traditional auto will go from overdrive back to second faster than a tiptronic.

In my case, (5spd tippy) if I'm cruising and want 2nd, I have to knock the stick back 3 times and HOPE that it goes to 4, 3 and 2.
Sometimes it only goes to 3rd - it's TOO SLOW.
But in a traditional auto, I'd just be able to put it back to "2" and it will get there.

Personally I don't see a benefit - both my wife's car and my previous Eunos 800 and 4x4 before that would hold whatever gear I tell it to be in with the sole exception of automatic downshifting, but I normally prefer higher RPMS, so that's fine. The Eunos had a 'hold' button which would prevent downshifting except when you stop at lights and it would go to 2nd. IMO that was the ultimate auto arrangement.

I've found that some auto's seem to get confused a bit which shits be and is dangerous when youve pulled out to o'take.
But if I bang it back twice it just kicks down instantly. Having said that all auto's are different. Guess it simply comes down to preference :)

the only thing you can do with a tippy box that you can't do with an auto is shift up when you want. sometimes I would prefer to shift into 4th at around 55-60, but the auto box won't do it.

shifting down I find the auto box easier than the tippy... just push the button in and slide all the way to 1st. with the tippy you have to hit the lever 3 times to do the same thing.

So not true wookie, a few times I've cursed my tippy for shifting back to first on its own when I've slowed to turn a corner.

i've got got both boxs in both of my cars (me TE daily and my other halfs TJ sports, and the tippy is way more fun. But you can't beat the funnes of a manual :happy:

IMO - traditional auto will go from overdrive back to second faster than a tiptronic.

In my case, (5spd tippy) if I'm cruising and want 2nd, I have to knock the stick back 3 times and HOPE that it goes to 4, 3 and 2.
Sometimes it only goes to 3rd - it's TOO SLOW.
But in a traditional auto, I'd just be able to put it back to "2" and it will get there.

Personally I don't see a benefit - both my wife's car and my previous Eunos 800 and 4x4 before that would hold whatever gear I tell it to be in with the sole exception of automatic downshifting, but I normally prefer higher RPMS, so that's fine. The Eunos had a 'hold' button which would prevent downshifting except when you stop at lights and it would go to 2nd. IMO that was the ultimate auto arrangement.

Well with the tippy just push it back into D and put your foot down...works a treat ;) ....the auto ecu tends to just chuck the gearbox into 2 when its under load anyway..... never had it go to three when I gave it a scurm....

i've got got both boxs in both of my cars (me TE daily and my other halfs TJ sports, and the tippy is way more fun. But you can't beat the funnes of a manual :happy:
Hell yes, if only my GTV came in a manual. Another fail for MMA.
My TH sports manual would have flogged the guts outta my GTV

Luxury car = automatic unfortunately. Only manual verada's are the KS verada Touring Wagons (Export versions for Aussie market) which are great, but the manual really doesn't make it feel like a verada anymore, being that they are the laid back cruise style, like my diamante, it's staying auto for as long as I own it. wouldnt feel like such a lazy cruise if it were manual!

So not true wookie, a few times I've cursed my tippy for shifting back to first on its own when I've slowed to turn a corner.

Yeah, it is true!Maybe not in a Rader or VR-X but 'In a Ralliart' the changes are that much more responsive and smoother in comparison to a 02 SII VR-X or Rader with the 5 Speed Tippy. If i want to slow down and take it into a corner I tap down into 2nd and I'm off keeping the rev's right where they need to be for max acceleration. Once you become accustom to using a tippy it's not 'too' far off a Manual... if you know how to use it. But 'i do' admit you can't make changes as 'quick' as you can if using a Manual, hence my changes are a split second earlier with a quick gentile flick of the stick to keep the changes smooth and as quick as possible. (The auto's in Magna's actually learn from your driving style... so, learn to understand your auto and you'll surprise yourself.)
It makes all the difference if you can understand and feel the auto as your rev's rise and fall. Understanding your auto box is important and knowing it's limits is too.

I've driven many mates auto's before... commy's and falcons... of similar years. Nothing has come close to the durability and pleasure of the Magna auto box... especially the 5 Speed Tippy! Once you've driven both you can actually feel the difference.

Yeah, it is true!Maybe not in a Rader or VR-X but 'In a Ralliart' the changes are that much more responsive and smoother in comparison to a 02 SII VR-X or Rader with the 5 Speed Tippy. If i want to slow down and take it into a corner I tap down into 2nd and I'm off keeping the rev's right where they need to be for max acceleration. Once you become accustom to using a tippy it's not 'too' far off a Manual... if you know how to use it. But 'i do' admit you can't make changes as 'quick' as you can if using a Manual, hence my changes are a split second earlier with a quick gentile flick of the stick to keep the changes smooth and as quick as possible. (The auto's in Magna's actually learn from your driving style... so, learn to understand your auto and you'll surprise yourself.)
It makes all the difference if you can understand and feel the auto as your rev's rise and fall. Understanding your auto box is important and knowing it's limits is too.

I've driven many mates auto's before... commy's and falcons... of similar years. Nothing has come close to the durability and pleasure of the Magna auto box... especially the 5 Speed Tippy! Once you've driven both you can actually feel the difference.
Ok dude, love your hearfelt reply!
But sorry Ezz they are talking about a stock 4spd auto, I've been talking about the 5spd auto tippy in my GTV KJ2.......
Your basically backing up everything I been sayin fella! ;)

Youve pretty much said exactly what I want to put across.......
BTW there is NO difference between your Ralliart 5spd tippy and my GTV's 5spd tippy!


What I meant to wookie, is the 5spd auto tippy will still kick down when the min speed are reached.

Well with the tippy just push it back into D and put your foot down...works a treat ;) ....the auto ecu tends to just chuck the gearbox into 2 when its under load anyway..... never had it go to three when I gave it a scurm....

I do the same for accelerating, but that is absolutely no good when you're coming into a corner :)

Actually, I'm far better off in "D" most of the time - much safer especially when tippy shifts into 1st without you realising. I've bounced off the rev limiter too many times when I forgot I was in manual mode after cruising in 2nd for a while.

Not much difference between the 4 speed auto and tiptronic. Tiptronic has - and + where you can change manually or just the P R N D for regular auto driving. Put it into D and its just auto, simple.

I took a boring white stock standard TJ Executive for a drive today and it had the 4 speed tiptronic. It was a very nice car to drive and felt good on the road. I'm definitely thinking of buying it especially for $5,000 and 120K + power windows and cruise.

ok ok FTW tippy with TCL off.. Rocks for doing a massive burnout!!!

ok ok FTW tippy with TCL off.. Rocks for doing a massive burnout!!!

well my tj only has abs and a tippy so yeah you can go mad with burnouts then in it ;) ....

Ok dude, love your hearfelt reply!
But sorry Ezz they are talking about a stock 4spd auto, I've been talking about the 5spd auto tippy in my GTV KJ2.......
Your basically backing up everything I been sayin fella! ;)

Youve pretty much said exactly what I want to put across.......
BTW there is NO difference between your Ralliart 5spd tippy and my GTV's 5spd tippy!


What I meant to wookie, is the 5spd auto tippy will still kick down when the min speed are reached.

Ahhh got ya! True true! ;) In the Ralliart It only goes into 1st automatically if I stop completely. I can keep it in second at 10k's an hour but if i stop, bump, she's in first.
Yeah, totally agree with the TCL off... only in the dry though as she gets a little hairy in the wet!

I do love the 4 speed auto in my KE Diamante. The invecs-ll box is great once it learns your style, always seems to get the right gear, like when i come to a gentle hill it will downshift to 3rd without having to press the accelerator more. and slowing down, it chops down through the gears nice and smooth, having the exhaust its fun as it sounds nice when it does. i also like how if your going uphill and have to ease off the gas a bit if you come up behind a truck etc, it wont bang to 4th like many autos do when you let your foot off the gas, it will hold 3rd till it levels out.

What I meant to wookie, is the 5spd auto tippy will still kick down when the min speed are reached.

sure, but I think you missed my point.

if you WANT to shift down into 1st, then the auto is easier. it's one motion. in the tippy you have to hit the lever 3 times.

both boxes will shift down when the minimum speeds are reached. also, both boxes will NOT shift down until the shift points are reached (I think it's around 40km/h in 1st).

neither box will shift up by themselves if 1st gear is selected.

sure, but I think you missed my point.

if you WANT to shift down into 1st, then the auto is easier. it's one motion. in the tippy you have to hit the lever 3 times.

both boxes will shift down when the minimum speeds are reached. also, both boxes will NOT shift down until the shift points are reached (I think it's around 40km/h in 1st).

neither box will shift up by themselves if 1st gear is selected.

Agree, but in my Ralliart I can change to 2nd and 3rd before passing 40 easily. Can't do it in the 02 SII VR-X though. I think it's because the gear ratio's are different in comparison. From memory, but don't quote me on this, the 5 Speed Tippy in a Ralliart is slightly different than other magna's with a 5 speed tippy in relation to gear ratio.

Agree, but in my Ralliart I can change to 2nd and 3rd before passing 40. Can't do it in the 02 SII VR-X though. I think it's because the gear ratio's are different in comparison. From memory, but don't quote me on this, the 5 Speed Tippy in a Ralliart is slightly different than other magna's with a 5 speed tippy in relation to gear ratio.

FWIW I can get 3rd in the Verada at 35km/h (5A)

But I'm pretty sure the transmission firmware is different in a Ralliart than VRX/Verada, as they would be programmed to shift faster and at higher engine RPM.

Been invecs the shift point varies on driver input, and all the info the sensors are sending it ie incline etc

Been invecs the shift point varies on driver input, and all the info the sensors are sending it ie incline etc

Oh yeah this is true, but what I mean is like WOT shift points. So for example my Rada would shift at 5,800RPM when floored, but the Ralliart might be 6,100RPM since they've got more up top.

Unless I'm mistaken :slap:

ah yeah you are right, there is a set point where it will change foot flat down. in my KE Diamante its around 5800 like you say. Do these engines have rev limiters?

yeah, they're limited. 6500 sounds right from memory.

ah yeah you are right, there is a set point where it will change foot flat down. in my KE Diamante its around 5800 like you say. Do these engines have rev limiters?
Yeah believe redline is 6k cutout 6.5

Ok good to know, not that it ever goes there lol, maybe 5000rpm once in a while. canon with no catconverter @ 5000rpm is sweet!

Ok good to know, not that it ever goes there lol, maybe 5000rpm once in a while. canon with no catconverter @ 5000rpm is sweet!

Is that even legal?! Surely you gotta have a cat converter to be legal with all the emission garbage..... Man I hate inside your car - it'd be so bloody noisy!

Nah not too loud, IMO, and he's not constrained to our laws being O.S.

Yeah NZ don't have to have catalytic converters on their cars. Awesome law that ;)