Can anyone give me some info in what to look for,cost,make,etc on extractors for my 380
And expected increase in performance and fuel economy if any
Cheeers

Chris,

Only one place you can buy extractors for a 380, RPW, see this page:

http://www.rpw.com.au/shop/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1354&category_id=236&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=66

Price $633.64 & shipping & GST, works out at around $770 to $800.

Then there's the cost of fitting, anywhere from $150 to $300 I reckon.

Not entirely sure what you get with the package these days, you may need a pair of O2 sensor extenders to prevent CELs.

The page linked above says:

"The factory O2 sensors will not require modifications. RPW supplies two O2 Extenders to be fitted for the rear O2 sensors so that no CEL lights are necessary. There is no need for any extension of wiring with this new design."

But I know of at least one member who didn't receive these O2 extenders with his kit so he's had to hassle RPW to get them supplied.

And per an email that RPW sent me after I finally got my setup working, it seems they now have two O2 sensor bungs on each extractor, one at the top and one at the bottom, so there is no need to extend the wiring to the rear O2 sensors. Bit strange that though, the rear two sensors are designed to be after the third (or now only) cat, so dunno how they work if plugged into the extractors.

Can't vouch for improved fuel economy, but they do release somewhere between 10 and 20kw at the wheels, depending on auto v manual and other exhaust & intake mods.

I see you already have the 90mm intake and a free flow muffler, so you're already well on the way. I would also recommend a 200cpi high flow cat to replace the third (remaining) cat in the system.

The extractors are a Hurricane design made under licence by Liverpool Exhausts in Sydney, but you generally can't buy them direct from Liverpool Exhausts unless you also have then fitted by them. OK for Sydney/NSW owners but no good for us in SA.

Also check out the 380 extractor questions thread here: http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67072 for all my trials & tribulations!

KJ.

I didn't know you could buy them direct if getting them fitted too. You could probably save a bit doing it that way (if you're nearby).

Thanks KJ380
more info on replacing 3rd cat. What are the benefits on this
Cheeers

Thanks KJ380
more info on replacing 3rd cat. What are the benefits on this
Cheeers

The benefits are more power...

The 3rd CAT doesnt do anything really, its a white brick.

The benefits are more power...

The 3rd CAT doesnt do anything really, its a white brick.
So whats involved in replacing this?
Is the extra power gain significant?

My suggestion would be to install the RPW headers and replace the 3rd CAT with a high flow cat. This is what I plan on doing when I get my exhaust done.

With the OEM headers, you wouldnt really notice much difference with removing the 3rd CAT. The OEM headers have 2 CATs built in.

So whats involved in replacing this?
Is the extra power gain significant?

1. Buy new cat
2. Get it fitted
3. Power gain probably isn't huge, I'm guessing around 3 - 5kw at the wheels.

I got mine from Scotts Rods here: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/200-CPSI-METAL-CATALYTIC-CONVERTER-HIGH-FLOW-CAT-2-5_W0QQitemZ120534590975QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_P arts_Accessories?hash=item1c106be5ff

200cpi (legal) 2.5" (correct size for stock 380 exhaust pipe).

Good prompt service, quality European cat.

$189 inc postage, then $30 to $60 to fit. Fairly straighforward job to cut out old cat and weld one of these in place.

Other good brands are MetalCat and Ballistic.

You might be able to swing a supply & fit deal with your local exhaust shop at a cheaper price than $220 to $250.

Note that 200cpi is the legal limit in Oz, you can get freer flowing 100cpi but they aren't legal (and they cost more than 200cpi).

KJ.

1. Buy new cat
2. Get it fitted
3. Power gain probably isn't huge, I'm guessing around 3 - 5kw at the wheels.

I got mine from Scotts Rods here: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/200-CPSI-METAL-CATALYTIC-CONVERTER-HIGH-FLOW-CAT-2-5_W0QQitemZ120534590975QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_P arts_Accessories?hash=item1c106be5ff

200cpi (legal) 2.5" (correct size for stock 380 exhaust pipe).

Good prompt service, quality European cat.

$189 inc postage, then $30 to $60 to fit. Fairly straighforward job to cut out old cat and weld one of these in place.

Other good brands are MetalCat and Ballistic.

You might be able to swing a supply & fit deal with your local exhaust shop at a cheaper price than $220 to $250.

Note that 200cpi is the legal limit in Oz, you can get freer flowing 100cpi but they aren't legal (and they cost more than 200cpi).

KJ.

I plan on getting the same CAT that you mentioned KJ. Good to hear that it is good quality as I wondering what it would be like.

never mind.

I had the RPW extractors fitted today.

There was a big pile of bits and pieces that came out .


I think the car definitely has a few more kilowatts...:)


.

Any increase in exhaust note?
Any 'marked' increase across the power range?

I slight increase in exhaust note, slight increase in power, wouldn't say it's dramatic low down cause i am starting from apretty high base KW.

Anyway...one less thing to do in the upgrades dept....and...no check lights so far (100 km travelled)

I got the new curved RPW oxygen sensor extensions...stainless steel it looks like as well.

I slight increase in exhaust note, slight increase in power, wouldn't say it's dramatic low down cause i am starting from apretty high base KW.

Anyway...one less thing to do in the upgrades dept....and...no check lights so far (100 km travelled)

I got the new curved RPW oxygen sensor extensions...stainless steel it looks like as well.

Worth the expense?

@Blackstar

Did you get the headers fitted to your TMR or one of your NA 380s?

Just curious :happy:

The GT...

Blackstar's GT is supercharged.

And not just the Sprintex series 3 S/C as originally fitted to all TMR 380s, the Sprintex series 5, which I understand is a significant improvement over the series 3 (and may even have a little more boost pressure - Fooz can confirm as he had his series 3 replaced with a series 5).

KJ.

Worth the expense?

That's hard to answer (especially as I don't have any, but have had on several previous cars). If you go by the cost side of it, the dollar-to-kilowatt ratio, it wouldn't be worth it. We've been very lucky with the 380 that a few very simple and cheap mods have produced good results, but after those basics have been covered the cost goes up for further power gains. But on the other hand if you're not on a budget and don't really care about the cost, then go for it. If I do anything on the exhaust, it would be twins down the back (which is for the look, not power).

I notice I can really hear that "blow off" noise between the gears now, even though it's an auto.

Couldn't hear it at all with the stock exhaust.

It scared the crap out of me, thought the gas tank sprung a huge leak...LOL

it's worth getting extractors just to see the look on the face of the guy on the left with his window open...

when you start the car it is a lot louder, it just sits there warbling and grunting, where before it was very quiet.

I notice I can really hear that "blow off" noise between the gears now, even though it's an auto.

Couldn't hear it at all with the stock exhaust.

It scared the crap out of me, thought the gas tank sprung a huge leak...LOL

it's worth getting extractors just to see the look on the face of the guy on the left with his window open...:)

when you start the car it is a lot louder, it just sits there warbling and grunting, where before it was very quiet.

Did you do any other modifications to the exhaust besides the headers?

Nope.

That's hard to answer (especially as I don't have any, but have had on several previous cars). If you go by the cost side of it, the dollar-to-kilowatt ratio, it wouldn't be worth it. We've been very lucky with the 380 that a few very simple and cheap mods have produced good results, but after those basics have been covered the cost goes up for further power gains. But on the other hand if you're not on a budget and don't really care about the cost, then go for it. If I do anything on the exhaust, it would be twins down the back (which is for the look, not power).

Yes I'm afraid I want twins just for the look. :eeek::eeek:

17-20KW is a lot more extra power for the outlay of $700-800 that doesn't open your engine, doesn't increase fuel economy and improves the drive-ability of your car.
It's definitely worth it IMO.
If you don't think so compare it to S/C; power increase versus dollars.

You are going to get a much greater gain than many other cars out there including the venerable Magna.

I doubt it is 17-20kw extra...guess it depends on the dyno...lol

Getting sick of spinning the left wheel.


time to look at an LSD me thinks

Good to see your happy with the extractor install, I'll have to tweak mine you have nearly caught up :eeek:

The rush you speak of is pretty cool, I could hear it too when N/A but with the blower & big exhaust it gets drowned out now :badgrin:

Those sensor extensions really look the goods; professional.

Well I wonder what new total your car is cranking out now, Blackstar. LPG vs Petrol - FI showdown!

Those sensor extensions really look the goods; professional.

Well I wonder what new total your car is cranking out now, Blackstar. LPG vs Petrol - FI showdown!

:hmm: ...... might need a smaller pulley & more methanol :badgrin:

Fooz....mine was 184 atw before extractors fitted...I might have sneaked in front mate....

Do me a favour Fooz...wack a camera on the steering wheel, start recording and flatten the pedal to the metal then upload to you tube mate.

I wanna hear and see how yours goes up to 100k's.



I reckon mine is the fastest on the forum...its putting out over 8 psi boost at peak revs.

Fooz....mine was 184 atw before extractors fitted...I might have sneaked in front mate....:)

Do me a favour Fooz...wack a camera on the steering wheel, start recording and flatten the pedal to the metal then upload to you tube mate.

I wanna hear and see how yours goes up to 100k's.

Only one problem, I am lacking a camera & a youtube account lol

Happy to loan you one...lol

Fooz....mine was 184 atw before extractors fitted...I might have sneaked in front mate....:)

Just looking at your dyno graph mate & you are getting a good 1 PSI at peak revs more than me, that must be worth at least 10 KW. Maybe I should look at a slightly smaller pulley & dose up the methanol a bit, should be able to cream 210 KW atw easily then :badgrin:

I reckon I am well over 200kw atw

Has anyone experienced raspiness or drone when installing the extractors? I have got myself a set of ralliart headers (ported and polished), just need to get a custom y piece fabricated.

I plan on replacing the pre-cats and the white brick with 1 high flow CAT. I was also thinking of putting in a resonator to stop any drone or raspiness. I wont be going dual exhaust and I will be keeping the berklee muffler.

Is there anything else I should be thinking about that I havnt mentioned? I am aware of the issue with the O2 sensors, that shouldnt be too hard to fix...

Has anyone experienced raspiness or drone when installing the extractors? I have got myself a set of ralliart headers (ported and polished), just need to get a custom y piece fabricated.

I plan on replacing the pre-cats and the white brick with 1 high flow CAT. I was also thinking of putting in a resonator to stop any drone or raspiness. I wont be going dual exhaust and I will be keeping the berklee muffler.

Is there anything else I should be thinking about that I havnt mentioned? I am aware of the issue with the O2 sensors, that shouldnt be too hard to fix...

If you don't have drone now you should be ok. The extractors will increase the noise significantly as the removed precats act as mufflers too. The stock exhaust has a resonator so i would just give it a go & if too loud bung another one in.

Hope you got the extractors cheap as it is only around $600 for the RPWs which include the Y piece you are making, the flex pipe & flange & all O2 sensor mounts & spacers?

If you don't have drone now you should be ok. The extractors will increase the noise significantly as the removed precats act as mufflers too. The stock exhaust has a resonator so i would just give it a go & if too loud bung another one in.

Hope you got the extractors cheap as it is only around $600 for the RPWs which include the Y piece you are making, the flex pipe & flange & all O2 sensor mounts & spacers?

I am getting the headers from System6. I got them cheaper than the asking price to make it worth while going down this route.

Fooz, do you recomend just keeping the 3rd CAT where it is? I assuming that is what you meant by resonator.

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad343/jrecord88/Ralliart%20Extractors/DSCN0496.jpg

I am getting the headers from System6. I got them cheaper than the asking price to make it worth while going down this route.

Fooz, do you recomend just keeping the 3rd CAT where it is? I assuming that is what you meant by resonator.

Yep the 3rd cat goes where the current one is, I'm sure there is another resonator behind this isn't there?? I have replaced my whole system a couple of times & can't remember the stock setup.

I am getting the headers from System6. I got them cheaper than the asking price to make it worth while going down this route.

Fooz, do you recomend just keeping the 3rd CAT where it is? I assuming that is what you meant by resonator.

http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad343/jrecord88/Ralliart%20Extractors/DSCN0496.jpg

Braedz,

The 3rd cat & the resonator are two different things. The resonator is a few cm aft of the 3rd cat. I removed mine & replaced it with two smallish circular shaped mufflers, to cut down on noise & drone potentially caused/increased due to the extractors. If you chop out the white brick 3rd cat and replace it with a hi-flow cat then it willl generally go in the same spot.

As Fooz says, fitting extractors increases the noise, but in my experience not by a huge amount. In my case there is a bit of rasp, but it's mild, only at WOT, and in my opinion actually sounds quite good - a little like an Alfa exhaust rasp (except much less pronounced!).

I also agree with Fooz that the Berklee you have fitted (my old one!) will still be up to the job of eliminating any drone.

KJ.

No worries, thanks for the info fellas. I didnt realise there was a resonator after the 3rd cat. Got a little mixed up lol.

Mine now spins the wheels on a WOT first to second gear changeup* in auto mode with traction control flashing away
The extractors pushed it just over that KW edge me thinks.


...*(about 60km/h)

Mine now spins the wheels on a WOT first to second gear changeup* in auto mode with traction control flashing away
The extractors pushed it just over that KW edge me thinks.


...*(about 60km/h)

Welcome to the club ...... finally :P

Mine now spins the wheels on a WOT first to second gear changeup* in auto mode with traction control flashing away
The extractors pushed it just over that KW edge me thinks.


...*(about 60km/h)

Pfft, mine does it on the 2nd to 3rd change as well, and I don't have a S/C.

Mind you it is only doing 80km/h at the time due to the very short gearing on a manual 380, and it does need to be a fairly brutal gear change - not a 'flat change' but close.

KJ.

Hi Guys,
I just stumbled across these mufflers for sale at ridiculous prices, and wondered what anyone thought of their suitability for the 380.
I don't know that much about 380 muffler fittings, for example I noticed some of the mufflers recommended here have an offset inlet , but these are centred, don't know if that ends up being a big issue or not? Also the business with the reducing flange?, but figured for $30-40 if they turn out to be sh*t I could just chuck them on ebay (they are also about half an inch bigger than I would've liked but.... hey.... $40!)
Any thoughts?

http://www.crazysales.com.au/stainless-steel-3-twin-exhaust-57-cm-car-muffler-tip_p2353.html
http://www.crazysales.com.au/stainless-steel-epoxy-finished-twin-exhaust-tip-53-cm-car-muffler_p2355.html
http://www.crazysales.com.au/stainless-steel-epoxy-finished-twin-exhaust-tip-53-cm-car-muffler_p2355.html

Don't mean to divert this thread to mufflers , but I didn't want to start "another muffler thread" one just for this question

Hi Guys,
I just stumbled across these mufflers for sale at ridiculous prices, and wondered what anyone thought of their suitability for the 380.
I don't know that much about 380 muffler fittings, for example I noticed some of the mufflers recommended here have an offset inlet , but these are centred, don't know if that ends up being a big issue or not? Also the business with the reducing flange?, but figured for $30-40 if they turn out to be sh*t I could just chuck them on ebay (they are also about half an inch bigger than I would've liked but.... hey.... $40!)
Any thoughts?

http://www.crazysales.com.au/stainless-steel-3-twin-exhaust-57-cm-car-muffler-tip_p2353.html
http://www.crazysales.com.au/stainless-steel-epoxy-finished-twin-exhaust-tip-53-cm-car-muffler_p2355.html
http://www.crazysales.com.au/stainless-steel-epoxy-finished-twin-exhaust-tip-53-cm-car-muffler_p2355.html

Don't mean to divert this thread to mufflers , but I didn't want to start "another muffler thread" one just for this question

They look like cheap Chinese junk.
The internal construction & materials would be rubbish and would blow out and/or corrode in no time flat.
And they are way too small for a 380, they would be excessively loud and very very droney.

KJ.

They look like cheap Chinese junk.
The internal construction & materials would be rubbish and would blow out and/or corrode in no time flat.
And they are way too small for a 380, they would be excessively loud and very very droney.

KJ.

I'm sure they ARE cheap chinese mufflers, but I figured since they are stainless for under $50 delivered, might almost worth giving them a shot?
Too small you say? I thought these wouldn't be that much smaller in volume compared to your berkley or Mikey380sx's powerflow
If I've got the right one, your BS0655 muffler is 510 X 250 X 150 yeh? Compared with the cheapie here which is 570 X 210 X 140, That makes yours just a little larger than this one but not much?
And if I've got the number of Mikey's right (H14OC250M) then it's only 350 X 200 X 100! which is way smaller than both and I reckon sounds fantastic.
Of course you could be completely right about the drone, Mikey says his doesn't drone, but he might've got lucky.

Do you know if that epoxy coated stainless is better than the plain stainless?

I'm sure they ARE cheap chinese mufflers, but I figured since they are stainless for under $50 delivered, might almost worth giving them a shot?
Too small you say? I thought these wouldn't be that much smaller in volume compared to your berkley or Mikey380sx's powerflow
If I've got the right one, your BS0655 muffler is 510 X 250 X 150 yeh? Compared with the cheapie here which is 570 X 210 X 140, That makes yours just a little larger than this one but not much?
And if I've got the number of Mikey's right (H14OC250M) then it's only 350 X 200 X 100! which is way smaller than both and I reckon sounds fantastic.
Of course you could be completely right about the drone, Mikey says his doesn't drone, but he might've got lucky.

Do you know if that epoxy coated stainless is better than the plain stainless?

I think you've confused the measurements a little.
Looking at the pics of the advertised mufflers with tips, I'm confident that the overall length including tips is 57cm. Looking at the scale, and going by the tip diameter being 3”, I reckon the length of the muffler itself is around 12” or 30.5cm, leaving roughly 10” or 26.5cm for the tips.
I’ll use inches from now on instead of mm, as that is the more common measurement used in the trade for mufflers.
The advertised mufflers = 12” x 8” x 5”.
Volume = 12 x 8/2 x 5/2 x Pi = 376.8 cubic inches.
(I’m treating the mufflers as a perfect oval shape, when that isn’t quite true, so I’m using the formula for the area of an oval times length to give volume).
Twin system = 2 mufflers = 753.6 cubic inches.
The Berklee BS0655 = 20” x 10” x 6”.
Volume = 20 x 10/2 X 6/2 X Pi = 942 cubic inches.
So a single Berklee BS0655 has significantly more volume than a pair of the advertised mufflers.
And the type and quality of the internal materials & construction are bound to be superior.
My mufflers (I haven’t had a Berklee on for many months now) are twin Commodore Sv6 (or so I was told by my exhaust shop bloke!), and they measure 14” x 10” x 10”. They are circular not oval.
So their volume (each) is 14 x 10 x Pi = 439.6 cubic inches, and two of them = 879.2 cubic inches.
Still less than a single Berklee BS0655.
If Mikey’s mufflers are the Powerflow H14OC250M, they are 14” x 8” x 4”, which works out at 351.69 cubic inches each, or 703.38 cubic inches the pair. A little less than the advertised mufflers.
So if Mikey isn’t getting any (or much) drone they are either very good mufflers or Mikey has some more mufflers or resonators in his system. I have two extra 12” x 4” x 4” mufflers (in series) in the main pipe just after the cat, before my system splits into two. And I still get a little bit of drone at certain revs under load, like going up a hill at 2,400 rpm in fourth gear.
After all that, size is important with Magna V6 & 380 ‘straight through’ mufflers, in general you need to go as big as you can fit to minimise drone. But size ain’t everything (as the Bishop said to the nun), type of construction (especially internal) & quality of materials also come into it. I reckon you would be taking a big risk with these El Cheapo mufflers in this area.
KJ.

@Rgoldsmith....I do not suffer from drone now, all I have done is the muffler change...but when i get extractors I think drone will be pretty bad so will be upgrading to a larger supercat muffler that i think Foozrcool uses?

I'd rather spend 3 or 4 times the price of those chinese mufflers and know im getting something that has some sort of reputable quality of construction :happy:

Sometimes we spend two or three times and still end up with Chinese mufflers...:)

Trouble is we often spend 3-4 times the price and they are still made in China...LOL

lol touche Blackstar. Hence why i said some sort of reputable quality :P

I think you've confused the measurements a little.
Looking at the pics of the advertised mufflers with tips, I'm confident that the overall length including tips is 57cm. Looking at the scale, and going by the tip diameter being 3”, I reckon the length of the muffler itself is around 12” or 30.5cm, leaving roughly 10” or 26.5cm for the tips.
I’ll use inches from now on instead of mm, as that is the more common measurement used in the trade for mufflers.
The advertised mufflers = 12” x 8” x 5”.
Volume = 12 x 8/2 x 5/2 x Pi = 376.8 cubic inches.
(I’m treating the mufflers as a perfect oval shape, when that isn’t quite true, so I’m using the formula for the area of an oval times length to give volume).
Twin system = 2 mufflers = 753.6 cubic inches.
The Berklee BS0655 = 20” x 10” x 6”.
Volume = 20 x 10/2 X 6/2 X Pi = 942 cubic inches.
So a single Berklee BS0655 has significantly more volume than a pair of the advertised mufflers.
And the type and quality of the internal materials & construction are bound to be superior.
My mufflers (I haven’t had a Berklee on for many months now) are twin Commodore Sv6 (or so I was told by my exhaust shop bloke!), and they measure 14” x 10” x 10”. They are circular not oval.
So their volume (each) is 14 x 10 x Pi = 439.6 cubic inches, and two of them = 879.2 cubic inches.
Still less than a single Berklee BS0655.
If Mikey’s mufflers are the Powerflow H14OC250M, they are 14” x 8” x 4”, which works out at 351.69 cubic inches each, or 703.38 cubic inches the pair. A little less than the advertised mufflers.
So if Mikey isn’t getting any (or much) drone they are either very good mufflers or Mikey has some more mufflers or resonators in his system. I have two extra 12” x 4” x 4” mufflers (in series) in the main pipe just after the cat, before my system splits into two. And I still get a little bit of drone at certain revs under load, like going up a hill at 2,400 rpm in fourth gear.
After all that, size is important with Magna V6 & 380 ‘straight through’ mufflers, in general you need to go as big as you can fit to minimise drone. But size ain’t everything (as the Bishop said to the nun), type of construction (especially internal) & quality of materials also come into it. I reckon you would be taking a big risk with these El Cheapo mufflers in this area.
KJ.


LOL!. You really only needed to point out the below observation lol, the rest I think I probably would've worked out ;)
But thanks for making such an effort!

I just checked this on a grid on the PC using the ad pic by comparing the tip measurements (stated to be 7.5 ) and compared these to the grid measurements of the muffler,which pretty much confirms your observation, it looks like it IS 570mm inlcuding the tips , not just the muffler, I thought it was 570 for just the muffler.

Thanks for pointing this out, don't think I'll bother with it after all then
Cheers,
RG

I think you've confused the measurements a little.
Looking at the pics of the advertised mufflers with tips, I'm confident that the overall length including tips is 57cm.
KJ.

Over the last few weeks, I have been trying to find an alternative supplier for the RPW 380 headers, due to them usually being out of stock and expensive.

So far, I have had success with Exhaust Plus Stepney/Advance Headers where they have been quite interested in developing a set of headers for the 380. To do this they will use a set of Magna Advance headers SN#A347, they will modify the y piece to clear the 380 sump (Advance Headers dont think there would be too much of an issue) and weld in the required O2 sensors. If this does not seem to work out, the existing 380 headers will be fitted and there will be no charge.

All up, supplied and fitted, this is going to cost between $800-$900. If my car successfuly has these installed without any issues, looks like we will have another supplier for 380 headers :).

Also, correct me if wrong. Due to the Advance headers having shorter primaries than the RPW headers, this should give more down low torque and hopefully a increase in the mid range.

Over the last few weeks, I have been trying to find an alternative supplier for the RPW 380 headers, due to them usually being out of stock and expensive.

So far, I have had success with Exhaust Plus Stepney/Advance Headers where they have been quite interested in developing a set of headers for the 380. To do this they will use a set of Magna Advance headers SN#A347, they will modify the y piece to clear the 380 sump (Advance Headers dont think there would be too much of an issue) and weld in the required O2 sensors. If this does not seem to work out, the existing 380 headers will be fitted and there will be no charge.

All up, supplied and fitted, this is going to cost between $800-$900. If my car successfuly has these installed without any issues, looks like we will have another supplier for 380 headers :).

Also, correct me if wrong. Due to the Advance headers having shorter primaries than the RPW headers, this should give more down low torque and hopefully a increase in the mid range.

Very interested in this. Will keep a close eye on this post
Cheeers

Very interested in this. Will keep a close eye on this post
Cheeers

No worries, I will definately keep you all updated. They seem pretty confident that they will be able to get everything working correctly. I plan on taking my car to them in about 6 weeks time.

Good work Braedz (if a bit late for me!).

Never heard of Advance Headers before, but looking at their website they seem OK.

Here's a pic of their Magna V6 headers from that site.

Looks a lot like Pacemakers to me!

And yes, I'm pretty sure shorter/thicker primaries = improved low down & mid range torque at the expense of top end power, and longer/thinner primaries = improved top end power at the expense of low down & mid range torque.

Edit - wrong way around, shorter primaries = top end power, longer primaries = low end torque, see this page: http://www.surefloexhaust.com.au/ext.htm

So depending on price, fit, O2 sensor bungs & wiring, and your driving style, these might turn out to be better than the RPW ones.

http://www.advanceheaders.com.au/site_files/319/Products/A347Lrg.jpg

Over the last few weeks, I have been trying to find an alternative supplier for the RPW 380 headers, due to them usually being out of stock and expensive.



Also, correct me if wrong. Due to the Advance headers having shorter primaries than the RPW headers, this should give more down low torque and hopefully a increase in the mid range.

Better get an LSD too!,with more torque down low she'll be lighting up a tyre all the time.I always felt there was more than enough down low but needed more top end,just my opinion but!

actually as a general rule of thumb, shorter primaries = more torque higher, longer primaries = more torque lower, as a short pipe has higher frequency harmonics = more scavenging effect at higher RPMs.

i think a few posts up someone said they're getting wheelspin from 2nd to 3rd, can i ask what tyres you are running? if they're comfort oriented tyres, can i suggest to upgrade to sticky rubber before considering something like an LSD. decent rubber should reduce wheelspin to nil in the dry in a N/A 380 - it did wonders for our Magna sports :)

Lith, I agree re length of primaries.
Shorter = high end power.

But main thing is losing the two cats - that in itself will be a major gain.

Should any competant exhaust shop be able to fit 380 extractors. My local guy advertises "custom supply and fit" extractors.
Whats the risk?

Should any competant exhaust shop be able to fit 380 extractors. My local guy advertises "custom supply and fit" extractors.
Whats the risk?

Yep, any competent exhaust shop should be able to do it. One risk is that the rear bank exhaust manifold nuts are a PITA to get at and a careless gorilla of a fitter might round them off. But the main risk is not getting the two rear O2 sensors fitted & wired up properly, with extenders. Otherwise you'll get constant CELs to do with O2 sensor error codes. The codes are harmless enough and I get them all the time (even with extenders fitted), but the CEL light being on constantly can be annoying. You can do what Fooz & I did and pull the instrument cluster out and block off the CEL LED with a piece of foam or similar. Piece of cake to do, see the DIY section.
Lastly, I had problems with the extractors rubbing and rattling where the front bank main pipe passes under the rear bank main pipe (it's a very tight fit!), and another rattle up against a heat shield. My exhaust guy welded two 90 degree brackets to the two pipes so that they were held apart from each other, and he bent the heat shield just a little to get it out of the way (and charged me nothing for both jobs), problem solvered.

actually as a general rule of thumb, shorter primaries = more torque higher, longer primaries = more torque lower, as a short pipe has higher frequency harmonics = more scavenging effect at higher RPMs.

i think a few posts up someone said they're getting wheelspin from 2nd to 3rd, can i ask what tyres you are running? if they're comfort oriented tyres, can i suggest to upgrade to sticky rubber before considering something like an LSD. decent rubber should reduce wheelspin to nil in the dry in a N/A 380 - it did wonders for our Magna sports :)

That was me, first post on Page 5.

I said "Mind you it is only doing 80km/h at the time due to the very short gearing on a manual 380, and it does need to be a fairly brutal gear change - not a 'flat change' but close."

So we're talking manual not auto and a brutal change.

That was with Maxxis MA-Z1 245/35 19 tyres. Not high end, but fairly decent rubber and definitely not comfort orientated.

And a stock 380, let alone my modded one, has a lot more wheelspin inducing torque than a stock Magna, especially a 3.0 (I should know, I drove a TE manual 3.0 for over nine years before trading it in on the 380).

And a stock 380, let alone my modded one, has a lot more wheelspin inducing torque than a stock Magna, especially a 3.0 (I should know, I drove a TE manual 3.0 for over nine years before trading it in on the 380).[/QUOTE]

I agree Kj , I too had a TE 3.0 for many years, auto though, had wide tyres and was very hard to break traction in the dry. The 380 is way different, hence my post concerning adding more low end torque.

You wont get constant CEL codes with the new style RPW O2 extenders....(well at least I don't.)

They are radically different to the original ones.


Edit: failed on lpg mode....so relocated the 02 sensors and all is good.

Are those the extender with the 90* bend in em? If so I think Ive seen em on ebay somewhere. Cause Ive had CEL on more frequently these days and I think they might do the trick. It's cheesing me off this CEL.

Are those the extender with the 90* bend in em? If so I think Ive seen em on ebay somewhere. Cause Ive had CEL on more frequently these days and I think they might do the trick. It's cheesing me off this CEL.

Yep, them's the ones. Not sure you can get them separate from the extractors though, maybe Blackstar will know, or else give RPW a call or send them an email.
If all else fails and the CEL is driving you nuts, just do what Fooz & I have done. Block off the CEL LED with a bit of black foam or similar, it's a piece of cake to do, and then regularly check for error codes using an OBD2 scanner. You'll still get all the O2 sensor codes like 0140, 0141, 0160, 0161 no matter how many times you clear them, they don't mean anything important. What you are checking for is other more serious codes, now that you can no longer see the CEL.

Yep, them's the ones. Not sure you can get them separate from the extractors though, maybe Blackstar will know, or else give RPW a call or send them an email.
If all else fails and the CEL is driving you nuts, just do what Fooz & I have done. Block off the CEL LED with a bit of black foam or similar, it's a piece of cake to do, and then regularly check for error codes using an OBD2 scanner. You'll still get all the O2 sensor codes like 0140, 0141, 0160, 0161 no matter how many times you clear them, they don't mean anything important. What you are checking for is other more serious codes, now that you can no longer see the CEL.

Yep no more CELs lol.

I checked mine the other day, first time in months & I had 10 codes. All the standard ones ..... O2 sensor, too rich too lean (larger injectors) ..... MAP, blah blah blah. Hauls arse thats all that matters :happy:

Yep, them's the ones. Not sure you can get them separate from the extractors though, maybe Blackstar will know, or else give RPW a call or send them an email.
.


You should be able to get them seperate, RPW failed to originally send me any extenders at all....then sent me the stainless steel 90 degree type seperately.

That was me, first post on Page 5.

I said "Mind you it is only doing 80km/h at the time due to the very short gearing on a manual 380, and it does need to be a fairly brutal gear change - not a 'flat change' but close."

So we're talking manual not auto and a brutal change.

That was with Maxxis MA-Z1 245/35 19 tyres. Not high end, but fairly decent rubber and definitely not comfort orientated.

And a stock 380, let alone my modded one, has a lot more wheelspin inducing torque than a stock Magna, especially a 3.0 (I should know, I drove a TE manual 3.0 for over nine years before trading it in on the 380).

ah ok, fair enough. well i think any FWD car with reasonable power will spin the wheels if you provoke it by dumping the clutch between changes!

I've done some research into the wiring requirements for the 0xygen sensor extender leads.

(a) you do not need to crimp, in fact the installation guide from an OEM oxygen sensor confirms that fact, but you must use resin core solder if soldering( so no blowtorch and putty paste...LOL)
(b) the wiring is not special, it only needs to "breathe" a few centimetres from the actual sensor, cause it gets hot. ( so cut it 200cm away and you'll be fine)
(c) It is not special low resistance wire etc, the sensor current is in the miilliamperes and the voltage is about one volt...that means that it is high impedance

I used hookup wire in heatshrinking from JayCar....

I posted this in my members' ride thread however it's important to give feedback in this extractors thread.

If you perform this mod with the O2 sensors pointing into the exhaust stream you may be as lucky as me.

No engine check lights after doing this mod wheras I got them fairly quickly on LPG

My exhaust guys' suggestion...works for me and definitely passes all emissions tests if 200cpi cat used

The O2 sensors are completely stock...under the heatshield they connect to an extension cable that in turn plugs into the conventional engine bay location.

If an O2 sensor needs replacing later its just a matter of unplugging connector above heatshield.

.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2237/380legalrearcatsetup.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/i/380legalrearcatsetup.jpg/)

If you're gonna have a problem with the CEL I found it usually comes up after a few hundred kms driving.

If you're gonna have a problem with the CEL I found it usually comes up after a few hundred kms driving.


Did 250k's since finishing it...went to the airport and back..lol


EDIt: 600k's and still okay.

Blackstar,
May I ask why you have decided to relocated the second pair of oxygen sensors if you weren't having any CEL's with the redesigned RPW O2 extenders??

Or did your quote "You wont get constant CEL codes with the new style RPW O2 extenders....(well at least I don't.)" from a month ago mean you still did get the occasional CEL with the new RPW set up??

Thanks.

Blackstar,
May I ask why you have decided to relocated the second pair of oxygen sensors if you weren't having any CEL's with the redesigned RPW O2 extenders??

Or did your quote "You wont get constant CEL codes with the new style RPW O2 extenders....(well at least I don't.)" from a month ago mean you still did get the occasional CEL with the new RPW set up??

Thanks.

With the RPW setup I would get them on petrol and not on LPG.

But I wasn't happy with the cat situation...as i modified the LPG tune to drop down to petrol much quicker due to LPG fuel delivery issues under heavy acceleration.

Since fitting the RPW extractors the car effectively had no cat, it makes sense that fitting a proper cat and fitting the lower O2 sensors on the back of the cat would be as close to original as possible.

Have emailed RPW with questions about the new extractor design, and most importantly, how the rear sensors work - if they are not extended, does that mean they are just put in the extractors like the front ones with a flow restrictor.

Also asked for confirmation of whether it really is "plug & play" - ie, if all four bungs are fitted for the oxygen sensors, everything bolts up seemlessly etc. I don't have time atm to take it to an exhaust shop for fiddling with sensors etc. if it isn't perfect straight out of the box.

The price is over $700 now, so also asked if that includes GST. If they give all the right answers, I think I can convince the chief commissioner of the fun police. Would look at replacing the third cat shortly after, probably at D&T performance in the Adelaide CBD. They did the Berklee and were seemless to deal with.

Quite a few people on AMC did all the hard yards for RPW in the early days getting the extractors right, so I think the onus should be put back on them. If I get them and it doesn't go seemlessly without CELs as their website says, then I'll bill them for the extra work getting it right :)

The other thing I asked for is a copy of the instructions - it should give AMC members a better idea of the whole process.

Oh, and thanks to the guys who did all the hard work with the extractors early on. I'll keep you all posted.

What are the legalities of removing the cats in the stock header setup? I guess if emissions are still within boundaries and engineer certified then that would be ok...

Quite a few people on AMC did all the hard yards for RPW in the early days getting the extractors right, so I think the onus should be put back on them. If I get them and it doesn't go seemlessly without CELs as their website says, then I'll bill them for the extra work getting it right :)



Wouldnt be the first time RPW has been taken to court for making a balls of the whole thing....

Just so you know you wont deal with dave directly with any "issues" you have, it will be his dad who is worse than him and also the buisness is registered to his dad not dave...

I guess customer service isn't in their vocabulary eh? It will be interesting to see how you go flyboy.

Have emailed RPW with questions about the new extractor design, and most importantly, how the rear sensors work - if they are not extended, does that mean they are just put in the extractors like the front ones with a flow restrictor.

Also asked for confirmation of whether it really is "plug & play" - ie, if all four bungs are fitted for the oxygen sensors, everything bolts up seemlessly etc. I don't have time atm to take it to an exhaust shop for fiddling with sensors etc. if it isn't perfect straight out of the box.

The price is over $700 now, so also asked if that includes GST. If they give all the right answers, I think I can convince the chief commissioner of the fun police. Would look at replacing the third cat shortly after, probably at D&T performance in the Adelaide CBD. They did the Berklee and were seemless to deal with.

Quite a few people on AMC did all the hard yards for RPW in the early days getting the extractors right, so I think the onus should be put back on them. If I get them and it doesn't go seemlessly without CELs as their website says, then I'll bill them for the extra work getting it right :)

The other thing I asked for is a copy of the instructions - it should give AMC members a better idea of the whole process.

Oh, and thanks to the guys who did all the hard work with the extractors early on. I'll keep you all posted.

I'd say I was 'one of those guys'.

You're dead right to check the O2 sensor set up with RPW, I'm a litle suss about their claims that it's now 'plug 'n' play'.

I suspect they have all four bungs in place, and 90 degree extenders for the rear two O2 sensors, but that they don't supply the extended O2 sensor wiring that is needed to reconnect the rear two sensors.

If that is the case, then yes you need to muck about extending the wiring if you wish to avoid constant CELs.

They emailed straight back, so that was good. But the response was that "they haven't had any reports" of CEL issues - doesn't mean they aren't occurring.

The solution is that all four oxygen sensors are placed in the extractors and there is no wiring extensions. The rear two are simply deprived of the majority of flow by restrictors to make it seem like a cat converter is there doing it's job.

I don't think I'll bother at this stage - the price is well over $800 now with GST and delivery, plus probably $200 for fitment. Add in a real cat converter and remove the brick (so the car is not pumping hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide/nitrous oxide into the atmosphere) and then extend the rear sensors (so that the ECU is working properly rather than being tricked) and probably looking at least $1300 all up.

For a power gain vs. cost exercise, I can't really justify it. Although if KJ380 takes me for a ride and I'm blown away, I reserve the right to change my mind =)

Thanks for the help and PMs though.

They emailed straight back, so that was good. But the response was that "they haven't had any reports" of CEL issues - doesn't mean they aren't occurring.

The solution is that all four oxygen sensors are placed in the extractors and there is no wiring extensions. The rear two are simply deprived of the majority of flow by restrictors to make it seem like a cat converter is there doing it's job.

I don't think I'll bother at this stage - the price is well over $800 now with GST and delivery, plus probably $200 for fitment. Add in a real cat converter and remove the brick (so the car is not pumping hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide/nitrous oxide into the atmosphere) and then extend the rear sensors (so that the ECU is working properly rather than being tricked) and probably looking at least $1300 all up.

For a power gain vs. cost exercise, I can't really justify it. Although if KJ380 takes me for a ride and I'm blown away, I reserve the right to change my mind =)

Thanks for the help and PMs though.

You should gain roughly 20kw atw with extractors (Depending on transmission of course!). If you want to get extractors and take a risk. I have been investigating getting magna headers adapted to fit a 380, I got quoted around $800 installed and this is with the O2 sensors relocated.

Hi Braedz.

That sounds like a much better solution. I've had mixed reports about the effectiveness of them though, so that's something else I'm unsure of - KJ380 said he thinks it isn't any more than 10kw, plus he thinks it all comes on high up in the rev range - not lower down torque as I was hoping for.

Flyboy

Also, with the magna headers, they are more suited for low down power/torque instead of top end.

You should gain roughly 20kw atw with extractors (Depending on transmission of course!).


KJ380 said he thinks it isn't any more than 10kw...

Has anyone actually dyno'd a 380, fitted extractors and then re-dyno'd the car (on the same dyno) in order to confirm the effectiveness of this modification?

Hi Braedz.

That sounds like a much better solution. I've had mixed reports about the effectiveness of them though, so that's something else I'm unsure of - KJ380 said he thinks it isn't any more than 10kw, plus he thinks it all comes on high up in the rev range - not lower down torque as I was hoping for.

Flyboy
It depends on the extractors. Generally though they are tuned for top end performance/high revs and your torque curve tends to shift higher too. I too would be interested in a before and after dyno chart to see the comparisons as I, like Flyboy, are more interested in developing torque down lower.

Driven both catback 380 (as such) with standard headers (Chris (380ftw)), compared to a full exhaust (Stormie (MOLT3N)) I will verify that going extractor rout is well worth it in my opinions.

Chris's car, although manual, definately looses pull in the final 1,000rpm to limiter. Driving stormies 380, although tiptronic, would so so easily just go all the way to 6,200rpm without even thinking about it. Keeping these engines at the higher RPM bracket makes them go like a bullet. Incontrolled conditions with the owner, we have taken MOLT3N to above 200??km/hr with ease.

Depends what your ultimate goal is out of the car, but for $1300, thats faily justifiable. Go price up a set of headers for an AU XR6 including cat and fitment ;) Will be around the same price. In no way is it a "rip off" price.... anything AROUND 1K is not a bad deal IMO.

Driven both catback 380 (as such) with standard headers (Chris (380ftw)), compared to a full exhaust (Stormie (MOLT3N)) I will verify that going extractor rout is well worth it in my opinions.

Chris's car, although manual, definately looses pull in the final 1,000rpm to limiter. Driving stormies 380, although tiptronic, would so so easily just go all the way to 6,200rpm without even thinking about it. Keeping these engines at the higher RPM bracket makes them go like a bullet. Incontrolled conditions with the owner, we have taken MOLT3N to above 200??km/hr with ease.

Depends what your ultimate goal is out of the car, but for $1300, thats faily justifiable. Go price up a set of headers for an AU XR6 including cat and fitment ;) Will be around the same price. In no way is it a "rip off" price.... anything AROUND 1K is not a bad deal IMO.

Agree with most of this.

For me it's hard to tell which mod made what difference.

In order, and going by rusty memory, I went:

90mm intake snorkel
Berklee BS0655 rear muffler
RPW extractors & dual exhausts at the same time, with smallish twin Berklee Pex 'straight through' mufflers.
Cut bottom off lower resonator and connected it to blank spotty hole in front bar with 75 mm 90 degree silicon tube.
Dual Lukey/Walker 'biggish' straight through mufflers, supposedly VE SV6 Crummydore jobs
ChipTorque Xede piggyback ECU tuned for 98RON, AFRs leaned out, and timing advanced by 6 degrees
Replaced third 'white brick' cat with 200 cpi cat.
Dual Lukey "Turbo Flow" mufflers, not straight through but decent flow.

After fitting the RPW extractors & dual exhaust it def revved out further, better & cleaner. It now revs out to 6,200 rpm no probs, when before it was game over at 5,500 rpm.
And it really boogies in 3rd gear overtaking 80km/h to 120km/h, I'd guess the time has been cut from 5 seconds to 4 seconds.
But how much of that is down to the extractors is very hard to tell.

Has anyone actually dyno'd a 380, fitted extractors and then re-dyno'd the car (on the same dyno) in order to confirm the effectiveness of this modification?

Yes - almost.

Foozercool and I had virtually identical setups. Chipped, sports exhaust (replaced muffler - his had a split system), 90mm intake. Foozr had extractors fitted. His dynoed 163KW ATW on a DynoDynamics setup at CNJ, QLD (98PULP). Mine was 147KW ATW on a similiar Dyno Dynamics (ChipTorque HQ Nerang, QLD). Mine was dynoed later on the CNJ dyno and got the same output measured on the ChipTorque.

That's the closest comparison you are going to get unless someone does a before and after.

Yes - almost.

Foozercool and I had virtually identical setups. Chipped, sports exhaust (replaced muffler - his had a split system), 90mm intake. Foozr had extractors fitted. His dynoed 163KW ATW on a DynoDynamics setup at CNJ, QLD (98PULP). Mine was 147KW ATW on a similiar Dyno Dynamics (ChipTorque HQ Nerang, QLD). Mine was dynoed later on the CNJ dyno and got the same output measured on the ChipTorque.

That's the closest comparison you are going to get unless someone does a before and after.
As above

I think it is actually suggested 20KW at the flywheel which would be around 15kw at the wheels (auto). Our two cars had 16kw atw between them which would confirm this & like Richard said, yes they were run on the same dyno.

Hi Braedz.

That sounds like a much better solution. I've had mixed reports about the effectiveness of them though, so that's something else I'm unsure of - KJ380 said he thinks it isn't any more than 10kw, plus he thinks it all comes on high up in the rev range - not lower down torque as I was hoping for.

Flyboy

Gday Flyboy, not sure why you would want more low down torque as I think most would agree there is plenty already.Wheel spin is already an issue on a non LSD kitted 380 and I reckon you would just make that worse.I have towed a rather un-aerodynamic box trailer on country trips and found there was plenty for overtaking hills etc, are you maybe thinking of using it as a tow motor for your plane! :)

Well, if it helps, when I drove Foozer's it was quite noticeable that there was more torque low down, whereas mine felt choked to 3000rpm in comparison. Driven in isolation, mine feels quite torquey in the lower ranges but with extractors it is much better again.
I think a lot of the wheelspin issue can be mitigated with harder springs, i.e. the weight transfer isn't so drastic. I'm sure if I took mine to the track now it would be a lot easier to get off the mark - to find that sweet spot where the engine doesn't bog and grip is just exceeded is much easier than before.

My biggest regret about the extractors is that the car loses it's luxurious, quiet cabin sound.

I would NOT buy the RPW extractors again...too thin....too noisy and too boy racerish.

So what you can here that over the blower? lol

I say they are a must if you want some performance.

post all gone..

Yeah...what i mean is that next time...I would look at having some better quality custom headers made up...using better grade steel, not rubbing and rattling between the front and rear crossovers etc etc etc.

I'll be making some up for the AWD project...one day....

Whats this all about? Mine don't do that!

One thing I did do was get rid of the heatshield over the dummy cat coz it vibrated after the extractors went on.

Yeah...what i mean is that next time...I would look at having some better quality custom headers made up...using better grade steel, not rubbing and rattling between the front and rear crossovers etc etc etc.

I'll be making some up for the AWD project...one day....

Yep, that's exactly what mine did.

Got my exhaust guy to weld a couple of brackets on to hold them slightly apart, problem solvered. And he charged me nothing for his trouble.

hmmm so the new improved version aren't as good as the old that I have?

hmmm so the new improved version aren't as good as the old that I have?

But mine are the old version! Maybe not as old as yours, but way older than Blackies.

I reckon you got lucky with the fit. There's only a few mm in it between rubbing & not rubbing.

Funny thing is, my exhaust guy commented when he fitted them how well made they were, and how they fitted 'just right'. It wasn't until later I had the rubbing/rattling problem.

post all gone..

Sounds like the redesign maybe wasn't a good thing. I'm extremely happy with mine.

post all gone..

Hi Whitewalzs.


Gday Flyboy, not sure why you would want more low down torque as I think most would agree there is plenty already.Wheel spin is already an issue on a non LSD kitted 380 and I reckon you would just make that worse.I have towed a rather un-aerodynamic box trailer on country trips and found there was plenty for overtaking hills etc, are you maybe thinking of using it as a tow motor for your plane!

I managed to fix the majority of this problem by replacing my stock Dunlop tires once they were dead. The slightly wider and larger diameter Bridgestone's seem to have made all the difference, and it sticks like ... well, you know!

On the Dunlops, first gear was useless. Second gear (on anything other than a perfectly clean, dry road) the tires scrambled intermittently with the TCL flicking on and off.
First gear on a clean, dry road now has no wheelspin, unless I dump the clutch from high rpm. I have the factory sports suspension, but nothing fancy like stiffer springs or coilovers. The transformation with some wider, bigger and better rubber has made all the difference.

I agree an LSD would be nice, but I'm after more driveability (ie overtaking on the highway) not the ability to drag off from a standstill.

As they say, power sells cars, torque wins races. I'm not a big fan of having to rev the car hard to get performance, I'd much rather not do that to my engine everytime I want to accelerate. Power is a strange unit of measure.

On another note, I do have a vague recollection of someone on here stating they thought the manual ECU limited torque in first gear. Did I dream that up? If so, it wouldn't surprise me - my manual seems to really unleash in second gear. The engine noise alone suggests to me it won't give everything in first gear.

Yeah not sure on the ECU thing as i have an auto,but I agree about the wider/better tyre senario. It has helped with traction in my case also as you would expect. Will be towing my trailer to Whyalla in a few weeks loaded and with 5 on board and I look forward to it as the 380 is a pretty good tow car I reckon, comfortable and enough grunt to over take those pesky caravans! :)

Hi Whitewalzs.



I managed to fix the majority of this problem by replacing my stock Dunlop tires once they were dead. The slightly wider and larger diameter Bridgestone's seem to have made all the difference, and it sticks like ... well, you know!

On the Dunlops, first gear was useless. Second gear (on anything other than a perfectly clean, dry road) the tires scrambled intermittently with the TCL flicking on and off.
First gear on a clean, dry road now has no wheelspin, unless I dump the clutch from high rpm. I have the factory sports suspension, but nothing fancy like stiffer springs or coilovers. The transformation with some wider, bigger and better rubber has made all the difference.

I agree an LSD would be nice, but I'm after more driveability (ie overtaking on the highway) not the ability to drag off from a standstill.

As they say, power sells cars, torque wins races. I'm not a big fan of having to rev the car hard to get performance, I'd much rather not do that to my engine everytime I want to accelerate. Power is a strange unit of measure.

On another note, I do have a vague recollection of someone on here stating they thought the manual ECU limited torque in first gear. Did I dream that up? If so, it wouldn't surprise me - my manual seems to really unleash in second gear. The engine noise alone suggests to me it won't give everything in first gear.

I've heard the same before as well.
Asked a couple of Mitsu dealer service depts and they both said 'dunno'.
But it might be true, mine feels a little restricted in 1st gear.
Revs all the way to the redline no worries but feels a bit breathless compared to 2nd.
When I'm on max attack I short shift into 2nd, change up at 5,500 instead of 6,250.

Yeah not sure on the ECU thing as i have an auto,but I agree about the wider/better tyre sCenario. It has helped with traction in my case also as you would expect. Will be towing my trailer to Whyalla in a few weeks loaded and with 5 on board and I look forward to it as the 380 is a pretty good tow car I reckon, comfortable and enough grunt to over take those pesky caravans! :)
The power is definitely not the problem with the 380 in towing. It is the front wheel drive and towing capacity limited to 1600kgs:eek2: Bit of a problem that. Front wheel drives are inherently not good tow vehicles

The power is definitely not the problem with the 380 in towing. It is the front wheel drive and towing capacity limited to 1600kgs:eek2: Bit of a problem that. Front wheel drives are inherently not good tow vehicles

Yeah I guess the 1600kg capacity is limiting for some,horses for courses I guess, don't know if I would feel comfortable towing over 2000kg in a family sedan though(Falcon is 2300 I think)

1. Buy new cat
2. Get it fitted
3. Power gain probably isn't huge, I'm guessing around 3 - 5kw at the wheels.

I got mine from Scotts Rods here: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/200-CPSI-METAL-CATALYTIC-CONVERTER-HIGH-FLOW-CAT-2-5_W0QQitemZ120534590975QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_P arts_Accessories?hash=item1c106be5ff

200cpi (legal) 2.5" (correct size for stock 380 exhaust pipe).

Good prompt service, quality European cat.

$189 inc postage, then $30 to $60 to fit. Fairly straighforward job to cut out old cat and weld one of these in place.

Other good brands are MetalCat and Ballistic.

You might be able to swing a supply & fit deal with your local exhaust shop at a cheaper price than $220 to $250.

Note that 200cpi is the legal limit in Oz, you can get freer flowing 100cpi but they aren't legal (and they cost more than 200cpi).

KJ.

hi Kj

I know maybe the same question again ;-) any improvement or any benefit of having only 3rd CAT changed? thanks

post all gone..

hi Kj

I know maybe the same question again ;-) any improvement or any benefit of having only 3rd CAT changed? thanks

Smarc,

If you mean 'keep the stock exhaust manifolds with their pre-cats and change just the third cat' then no, you will get zero improvement or benefit.

The two pre-cats are the main 'blockage' in the 380 exhaust system and the third cat is just a 'white brick' - a pretend cat with a honeycomb strata but no precious metals doing any catalytic converting of exhaust gasses.

I've been told that MMAL left it like that because they discovered that the 6G75 met Euro 3 emission regs with just the two pre-cats, and a 'real' third cat wasn't needed. But they had already designed the whole exhaust system with a third cat in place, so instead of redesigning the system it was cheaper just to leave it there and save a bit more by making it a 'white brick' instead of a real cat.

The main reason I and others who have fitted extractors to a 380 then replace the third cat is that with just the 'white brick' in place we have no working cat at all and we would miserably fail any emissions check. So we stick a real cat in the system, and while we're at it we might as well make it a reasonably good flowing one like a 200 CPI.

I suspect we would fail a full emissions check anyway, but at least we should pass a po-po smell test!

Were the Euro 3 standards legislation when the 380 was first built?

I wonder if Mitsubishi were choking up our exhausts because they had to, or because they were thinking ahead of the game.

Were the Euro 3 standards legislation when the 380 was first built?

I wonder if Mitsubishi were choking up our exhausts because they had to, or because they were thinking ahead of the game.

I don't think the Euro 3 regs were already in place, I think MMAL were thinking ahead and also thinking they could use it as a marketing tool: "Look at our nice new environmentally friendly but still family friendly large car, it already meets the upcoming tough Euro 3 emissions regs".

But then again Tom Phillips told us at the MMX dinner that MMAL already knew the 380 was dead in the water before the first car rolled off the production line. But I suppose that was some time after production final specs were signed off.

Were the Euro 3 standards legislation when the 380 was first built?
I wonder if Mitsubishi were choking up our exhausts because they had to, or because they were thinking ahead of the game.


I don't think the Euro 3 regs were already in place, I think MMAL were thinking ahead and also thinking they could use it as a marketing tool: "Look at our nice new environmentally friendly but still family friendly large car, it already meets the upcoming tough Euro 3 emissions regs".

But then again Tom Phillips told us at the MMX dinner that MMAL already knew the 380 was dead in the water before the first car rolled off the production line. But I suppose that was some time after production final specs were signed off.


The EURO 3 emissions standard - ADR 79/01 - was implemented in 2005.

New model vehicles released after January 2005 had to comply with this emissions regulation.

As the 380 was released in October 2005, it was designed to comply to EURO 3 emissions from day one.

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If you are too much of a tight ass you could achieve close to what the extractors do by simply knocking out the catalyst out of the precats, cutting out the rear stock "cat" and replacing the rear with a 200 cpi larger unit and relocating the 02 sensors behind it.

Your emmissions would be 100% identical to the RPW headers then and would probably breathe much better...

Probably get the same performance as well ....:)


Why not give it a go since the precats and manifolds get tossed in the bin anyway?


http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3148/exhaustintact2.jpg (http://img717.imageshack.us/i/exhaustintact2.jpg/)

Had a go at gutting the precats a while back , a bit more involved than you might think to do properly and if not done right will be worse than stock! I did mine coz I wanted it to look completely stock with heatshields etc but , as has been mentioned here before, you could just use Magna cast iron headers and weld some bungs for the sensors I guess, would be easier i think.

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Geez, were'd you sneak up from! Was just editing my post down and your"ve already replied to the original! I gotta learn to type faster!

If you are too much of a tight ass you could achieve close to what the extractors do by simply knocking out the catalyst out of the precats, cutting out the rear stock "cat" and replacing the rear with a 200 cpi larger unit and relocating the 02 sensors behind it.

Your emmissions would be 100% identical to the RPW headers then and would probably breathe much better...

Probably get the same performance as well ....

Why not give it a go since the precats and manifolds get tossed in the bin anyway?

It's not a matter of being a "tight ass". I bought my 380 brand new with cash, so I'm pretty sure that's got nothing to do with it.

Just don't want a crap system which tries to trick the ECU (fairly unsuccessfully btw) - I want to do it properly.

When you have a family sometimes there are more important things in life than spending time on a car.

If RPW make a proper plug and play kit that's legal and works (and won't involve me wasting a heap of time trying to get it right) then I'll revisit the idea.

It's not a matter of being a "tight ass". I bought my 380 brand new with cash, so I'm pretty sure that's got nothing to do with it.

Just don't want a crap system which tries to trick the ECU (fairly unsuccessfully btw) - I want to do it properly.

When you have a family sometimes there are more important things in life than spending time on a car.

If RPW make a proper plug and play kit that's legal and works (and won't involve me wasting a heap of time trying to get it right) then I'll revisit the idea.

After all the expense & stuffing about I went through to refit the rear two O2 sensors (new sensors, wiring kits, bungs, extenders etc), I don't think they ever really worked anyway.

After about 1,000k I started getting CELs, bought myself a scanner, and saw about six O2 sensor related error codes.

As fast as I clear them the same six codes keep coming back. I suspect the extending wiring which I did myself wasn't the greatest job ever, and the wires have come apart somewhere.

So many months ago I blocked off the CEL and I just run regular scans to check for error codes.

Thing is, despite all these constant O2 sensor error codes, the car runs like a dream and always has, other than two unrelated 'limp home' modes being triggered I think by electrical surges or interferences.

I'm fairly sure now my two rear O2 sensors don't do anything and haven't for a long time, but the engine still runs beautifully. So are they really needed, and does it really matter if they are connected or not?

I suppose I could carry out an experiment and disconnect them, but CBF doing that ATM.

Hi KJ380!

Thanks for your reply. I completely agree that it's quite possible the relocation of the sensors behind a third cat might not do the trick - I guess it comes down to how good the cat is compared to how good the ECU has been told it should be.

There could be a myriad of other problems going on too. One might relate simply to the much increased distance between the first set and second set of oxygen sensors and the tolerances in the ECU for detecting change from one to the other. A 200cpi cat, while legal in Australia, might simply go nowhere near the performance the ECU is expecting from the Euro 3 factory setup.

Are they really needed? Well they relate to emissions control, so probably not if you just want your engine running. But if you want to know your engine is not pumping hydrocarbons into the air, then yes, they are needed. I guess the scenario is that 5 years from now your 200cpi cat fails internally and you won't know. Or, if the CEL is blanked out, something else major go wrongs and you don't know about it until it's too late.

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The O2 sensor circuit works in a differential amp mode circuit.
It's immune from car noise...so unless you drove past a nuclear EMP pulse i will make a diagnosis that your wiring to the O2 sensors is wrong, and always has been...(easy to do)

The wires will not solder, you need to crimp them, good quality crimps are critical, particularly in the high vibration environment.

I've said it before...mine works perfect.

Yep, I crimped 'em and wrapped 'em up real good in electrical tape and then duct tape, but I still reckon I didn't do it 100% right.

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