The fella is dead tired so I thought I would help him out by posting up some problems he is having with the ralliart. Well it's rebuilt now, charger is back on but on of the belts is a touch loose but won't make difference to turning it over . Well the battery came out of a working car so we know that's good. the starter motor has also been replaced. It turns over but it's very very slow, like it's struggling against something. We think it's electrical, but what? Earth from passenger chassis to gearbox is fine, where are the other main earth points?

Whats the cold crank amps of the batt?
the batt may not have the juice to turn it over

The batt was put back in a v6 Avalon and it started first kick

there is a earth on the firewall

hows the wiring for the starter motor? im thinking a weak connection around the solenoid or the motor terminal might make it turn over slowly

hows the wiring for the starter motor? im thinking a weak connection around the solenoid or the motor terminal might make it turn over slowly

If that fails 1s the solenoid fully engaging with a solid click, was it overhauled or just 2nd hand starter? If it has been lying around it may having a sticking solenoid or even not be exactly the correct model and may not be meshing correctly with the ring gear. Does the engine turn over by hand cranking? Have you taken the starter motor off and checked its operation by connecting up directly to the battery - obviously it should spin very freely and fast without a load when test run.

good morning guys!

The starter motor is new and it is a magna starter, side by side to the old one they look exactly the same.
The battery is new, with charge.
The earth from the firewall to the supercharger is connected.

I haven't spun the starter motor out of the engine. The last time I turned the engine over by hand was when I was re timing it. A month or so ago when I got the car back from the shop I drove the car on the old starter motor (in gear, clutch and holding the key on) for a short distance and for memory it was working fine, makes me think I could have burnt something else out in the line

starter motor is not quite new, but it came off a working car (mine).

symptoms didn't change when it was replaced, right Jase?

How many CCA is the battery?
All I can say is make sure all earthing points have been sanded or filed back to metal for best contact (you probably knew that already just saying) and I'd be looking at a 600CCA battery at least
Make sure battery terminals are clean too, clean terminals on battery with emery paper and clean battery terminals on car with a file (thick round one)

this may be obvious, but try starting it in neutral if, i guess you would have already done this, but if your clutch is hanging up it would make it hard to start while in gear even with the clutch in..
otherwise, try conecting the power straight from the battery to the starter, this will tell you if its mechanicl or electrical.

Guys,. forget the bloody battery, they have tested it in other cars

So mate, you drove the car on the starter in gear, sorry but this is plain stupid. The starting system is not designed for the amount of load for that amount of time, cranking an engine is one thing, driving on the starter is entirely different. Was that done on this starter or the last one

Now the earth from the firewall to the body makes no difference to crank. The main 2 cables you need for crank are the earth from the BATTERY to the BELL HOUSING and the POSITIVE from the BATTERY to the STARTER

if these look ok, try getting a fresh set of cables and even temp run them across to the block and starter as your little effort above may have damaged these cables.

Mal, I sent Jase a starter out of my car (was working fine when I took it off), to replace the one he used to get his car up the driveway. I believe the symptoms have stayed the same after he swapped out the starter, so it's not likely to be that.

maybe the flywheel got munched?

I would remove starter and test it on the bench plus check for ring gear damage from the starter drive situation. as tuffy said the battery terminals are a good start, and check the engine is free if this is its first turnover from the rebuild. could try a jumpstart (negative terminal of the leads on your end to the block) to give it a boost.

Mal, I sent Jase a starter out of my car (was working fine when I took it off), to replace the one he used to get his car up the driveway. I believe the symptoms have stayed the same after he swapped out the starter, so it's not likely to be that.

maybe the flywheel got munched?

In that case it could be the ring gear or the cables have been fried as I would say they would have been fairly hot after doing this

Guys,. forget the bloody battery, they have tested it in other cars

So mate, you drove the car on the starter in gear, sorry but this is plain stupid. The starting system is not designed for the amount of load for that amount of time, cranking an engine is one thing, driving on the starter is entirely different. Was that done on this starter or the last one

Now the earth from the firewall to the body makes no difference to crank. The main 2 cables you need for crank are the earth from the BATTERY to the BELL HOUSING and the POSITIVE from the BATTERY to the STARTER

if these look ok, try getting a fresh set of cables and even temp run them across to the block and starter as your little effort above may have damaged these cables.

Earth from batt to bell housing doesn't exist as batt now lives in the boot as it has done for quite some time i believe. there is an earth from the bellhousing to the chassis where the normal batt negative terminal earth would be.

The car was pushed up the drive riding on the starter motor for at least a minute if not a bit more to assist me and jasons dad pushing a ralliart up a sloped driveway :ninja:

I do realise it is not smart to drive a car on the starter motor, but when faced with a difficult situation you have to do what you have to do :(

I might have to test the starter motor cable, but are there any other cables, fuses or solenoids that I should check? would a multi metre be enough to check the cable?

Thanks guys for your imput.

Starter should be a direct cable off the battery (no fuse)
You can check the resistance of the cable with a multimeter, will have to use another piece of cable on the end of one lead though to reach from one end of the car to the other, take this lead's resistance into account.

Yeah, understand lol, but unfortuntely you will most likely end up where you are now lol

I would simply get a pair of jumper leads, one from your - to the body of the starter, give that a go, this will rule out the negative cable. Then the other from the + to the starter terminal, just be careful you do not hit anything else and make big sparks

As an example, I have a set of jumper leads here, were cheap ones but with large cable, I assumed they were ok, went to jump a car and the car still barely cranked, I assumed then that the leads were stuffed, grabed another set, still no go. Then assumed that the starter was shagged, poped a new one in, still the same. I tested these cables, tested fine as the multi meter put bugger all current through, when I decided to change them (both positive and negative) the car started fine with no jumper leads

seeing i need the car this coming wknd for some motorsport events, I'm going to call a highly recommended auto eleco and see if they can come and sort it out early this week.

****ing cars

Ok had the auto eleco over today, and the problem is not electrical which is crap! Looks like ive gotta pull the car apart again and see if i can find the problem

Any ideas where I should start??

ring gear

what have you done recently? like new clutch or timing belt etc?

ring gear
??? plz explain wook

Outer ring of your flywheel, what the starter motor mesh's with. gearbox out job.

;1225924']Outer ring of your flywheel, what the starter motor mesh's with. gearbox out job.
what he said. although you can probably inspect it through the starter motor hole.

if it's ****, gearbox out... :(

ahh thought thats what you ment.

When its turning over, the starter motor sounds consistant, not like there is a missing nut in one of the bores or loading up on one compression stroke.

The ring gear looked fine when I had the starter motor out, no nicks in the teeth. The motor is still turning over, just very slowly, as if the battery is nearly flat (which its not)

silly question, but have you tried starting when the clutch depressed?

shouldn't make any difference, but it might.

silly question, but have you tried starting when the clutch depressed?

shouldn't make any difference, but it might.
Looks like its something in the gearbox!!

Turned the key, then depressed the clutch, and it became harder to start, and felt the clutch push in and out. Will call the workshop shortly and ask some questions. Looks like the car isnt going to dubbo this weekend :(

have you touched the oil before? just wondering what it's using...

might be worth draining the 'box and seeing what it looks like.

jase, you have a crazy charger on there now dont you? is there somthing on it that could that be adding the extra strain on the starter motor, is it able to be spun freely? because it is essentially now trying to turn over the motor plus the charger too. just a thought

Mate,
I think you have just found the issue. Yo push in the clutch and it is even harder to crank and you can feel the pedal pulsate when it is cranking, I would say that something in the bellhousing has let go and is jamming

If you want, give me a call and I can give you some ideas, is much easier on the phone than it is in a forum lol

jase, you have a crazy charger on there now dont you? is there somthing on it that could that be adding the extra strain on the starter motor, is it able to be spun freely? because it is essentially now trying to turn over the motor plus the charger too. just a thought

The forces needed to turn the charger during start is miniscule to the forces required by the crank.

Can't believe it's the box that has crapped it.

The forces needed to turn the charger during start is miniscule to the forces required by the crank.

Can't believe it's the box that has crapped it.

yeah i realise this, just thinking mabey it wasnt installed perfectly or someother reason that it was hard to spin it, but yeah sounds like a box issue now.

Can not be the box, think about it, when he has his foot on the clutch, the box is not in any way connected to the motor, even if the box was totally seized, the clutch plate will just spin and the box will do nothing

f'ed throwout bearing?
explains why its harder when there is weight on the clutch pedal.

I would say the clutch is not totally disengaging from the flywheel, and creating drag as the starter trys to turn against the extra resistance. although if put in neutral this should make that a non issue....hmmmm if it still is tight in neutral then maybe there is something binding up in the bellhousing. getting further in maybe the inputshaft bearings are seized/tight ? or the throwout bearing like bellto said.

I would say the clutch is not totally disengaging from the flywheel,
i said that before and i think he said he is starting it in neutral already?

Regardless if the throw out bearing is had it or not, it would be too much of a coincedence for both the inputshaft bearing and the throw out or clutch to die at once, especially only from being cranked up a driveway.

TZABAY, give me a call mate, I can tell you over the phone how to do some simple checks to try and work out what is happening here