I need help from someone with the knows about Magna Auto Gearboxes. Going through a routine service today, got pretty much everything done including a Full Auto Trans Service before I go and get it toughened up by a gearbox specialist. (Just had to get it all done so sorry:ninja: Mal i didn't come to you... I know how busy you are.)

During the service the mechanic found these little magnetic metal items sitting near the plug hole... how they didn't get caught in something in the gearbox is beyond me and is a damn miracle:pray:... if so, see ya later gearbox they told me... (HELLO MANUAL CONVERSION say's Mal! :woot:) Thanks Mal but I'm sticking with my Auto! She hasn't failed me... 'yet'!

So, I need to find out what these belong to or if it is some sort of surrounding to maybe a clutch pack in the gearbox? Whatever it is, it totally scared the crap outa me... the last thing i need to do is get a new auto box $$$ NEVER had a problem with it before and it hasn't killed it thank God. After the service... which was very much due, she's changing perfectly now, no more slippage through 2nd to 3rd. However, since I'm going to get stronger bands and an overall overhaul of my gearbox I wanted to be armed with information regarding this so I don't get bulls*&@ed to! SO HELP ME PLEASE!!!!!

Appreciate your assistance guys and as tempting as it is to say... TIME FOR A MANUAL CONVERSION BUDDY, I will reply politely with "I'm not interested thanks!":happy:

Cheers guys

Some picks of the magnetic objects, not foreign items but they apparently once had a purpose in there? Which was?

6 Objects in total... so far... hope there is nothing more floating around in their...:eek2::eeek::pray:
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3713/p1050064b.jpg (http://img535.imageshack.us/i/p1050064b.jpg/)

Size in relation to a $2 coin
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4986/p1050066.jpg (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/p1050066.jpg/)

It looks like the wave spring. As far as I know it's part of the clutch packs, and it's apparently prone to breaking up, and circulating until it comes to rest in the oil pump, destroying the transaxle.

It looks like the wave spring. As far as I know it's part of the clutch packs, and it's apparently prone to breaking up, and circulating until it comes to rest in the oil pump, destroying the transaxle.

Cheers for the quick reply VERADABEAST! :thumbsup:
Ummm, thought so. What are your thoughts on how this wave spring breaking up and now, pretty much gone will do to the gear box if left untreated for too long? is it something that once taken to an Auto Specialist and strengthening/overhauling the gearbox, will it be repaired and problem overcome?

get a price from a wrecker for an auto
most wreckers offer a warranty

So far, no need for a completely new auto dude... she's running fine now. But i want to avoid any future problems, hence, overhauling and strengthening my Auto Box by a specialist. Will look to that if needed so cheers mate ;)

Cheers for the quick reply VERADABEAST! :thumbsup:
Ummm, thought so. What are your thoughts on how this wave spring breaking up and now, pretty much gone will do to the gear box if left untreated for too long? is it something that once taken to an Auto Specialist and strengthening/overhauling the gearbox, will it be repaired and problem overcome?

Since the gearbox has to be removed and stripped down to be overhauled anyway, the wave spring will be replaced when the clutch packs are renewed. If more of the spring breaks off and circulates with the ATF, then eventually it'll suffer the same fate as most other boxes with the same problem have - complete failure. AFAIK the wave spring provides thrust to the clutch packs, keeping them compressed. Without that pressure, who knows what might happen.

Get it fixed as soon as you can dude.

a guess

been looking at the internals of an auto

your parts are small but look like two different thickneses

a circlip and a retaining spacer of a clutch pak kinds like veradabeast said

so good thing you are taking the box apart for a look see:eek2:

Since the gearbox has to be removed and stripped down to be overhauled anyway, the wave spring will be replaced when the clutch packs are renewed. If more of the spring breaks off and circulates with the ATF, then eventually it'll suffer the same fate as most other boxes with the same problem have - complete failure. AFAIK the wave spring provides thrust to the clutch packs, keeping them compressed. Without that pressure, who knows what might happen.

Get it fixed as soon as you can dude.

Will do. I'm thinking its the wave spring for the 2nd 3rd gear clutch packs? As this is where i noticed slippage and irregularity in the gearbox changes. Other than that, the Auto is shifting smoothly and correctly. Good thing I found out now so I can get it done hopefully in the next few weeks after I get in contact with some Auto Specialist. Any one know much about Kewish Automotive Transmission Specialists in Melbourne? They do a lot of Falcon/Commodore auto's that once completed can handle 350 rwks and are virtually indestructible.
Any other thoughts? Thanks heaps for the advice so far!

They llok like pieces of the wave-spring (frm low-reverse clutch pack) to me - appears to be different sizes from the angle of the pieces only.

Those pieces are off a spiral spring of about 10-12cm diameter, which spirals into 3 layers. There will still be quite a bit of wave-spring left in your box (good news bad news kind of scenario - maybe enuf still there to do its job, but plenty left to break off and go do damage).

Get your box done up toot-sweet, would be my advice. If a piece like those jams in your trans oil-pump, you will shatter the rotor and pieces of that will go right thru the box. Its a box-out, pull-down-completely and look for damage kind of scenario.

Ask that they obtain a single layer (thicker) wave-spring when rebuilding. Look for old threads and the US "transmission digest" web page about the problem.

Any one know much about Kewish Automotive Transmission Specialists? They do a lot of Falcon/Commodore auto's that once completed can handle 350 rwks and are virtually indestructible.
Any other thoughts? Thanks heaps for the advice so far!

It's one thing to build a Turbo 700 or BTR box, but if they don't have any experience with Mitsubishi boxes, or front wheel drive autos it might be a learning experience for you both. Make sure you get a bulletproof warranty.

I agree with VeradaBeast. The Mitsi auto box will have a very limited range of "do-up/beef-up" parts available, if at all.
Anyone who does Falcodores for their bread-and-butter will possibly know stuff-all about your FWD electronic auto.

But it won't hurt to ask, or shop around.

Cheers fellas, thanks for the help and advice. Will get onto it with God Speed!

i have herd of mitsubishi having an ammended wave spring, that was ment as a replacement.

Good point, Brent. The American transmission digest article (aimed at repairers) mentiones that the version of the box behind a 4-cyl has a single layer wave-spring, while the V6 version has the three-layer (breaky) version. Transmission guys seem to have nil problemo getting the thicker single-layer part.

Here's that web-page: http://www.transmissiondigest.com/tech/TD200508/200508ShiftPointers/200508ShiftPointers.htm

I have a guy over here who does a lot of mits transmissions and is good, he is not cheap but is good and does a lot of these for the dealerships as well if need be

This needs to be attended to before it lets go all together and you end up either with no drive or worse still, like what happened to Amin, you end up with bits mashing one of the gear packs

Or perhaps it is that time for another MANUAL Ralliart to grace our streets :)

Brent and Elwyn - Cheers for the info and article. Makes things more clear and to the point. I now have the info I need when I take it to an auto specialist.

Mal - Is he able to put in stronger bands and all that jazz as well as replacing the wave spring with the single circular one-piece cushion (non break y version)? Any chance you could inquire into this for me and give me a rough estimate. Cheers mate! (Or perhaps it is that time for another MANUAL Ralliart to grace our streets... its tempting i know, but she ain't fully buggered yet so there is still hope for the tippy!)

mines been broken for at least 30,000km now, apart from the slippage i havent had a problem.. although fuel economy is shot to shit.

i researched the possible fixes quite a bit, seems to be a LOT cheaper to just get a new box and hope for the best, or go the manual conversion and be sure it wont happen again.

hmm, realistically (other than the labor involved), all that would need to be done is to get the circular one-piece cushion springs to replace the unreliable spiral ones, an aftermarket filter for the trans described in the article and clear the gearbox out of any other fragments. I can't see that being too difficult? It's not like is not working at all? As you say WOOB, you've been driving around with it like that for 30,000 Ks... stuff, there's no way i'm doing that. That gives me a little more security, though I'm getting it done asap!

Once I get my box all toughened up anyway, I shouldn't have any further problems, so i don't see a need to get rid of it yet. I'll wait to hear from Mal and I'll speak to the specialists at Kewish too.

Sorry to hear bout ure trans another one affect....
that article missed one thing too not only is the standard filter got a small unsealed area its made of foam 2, and with the vibrations of the pump the metal can actually vibrate its way through the foam.
there arent any bands in the trans only clutch packs u might be able to get some new discs with a better friction coating on them but unknown 2 me.
when i rebuilt mine i was like u and lucky to find the metal.... before it failed
the problem i noticed was that the spring as it had broken up was digging into the alloy casing of the trans... where the clutch pack moves up and down this is really bad if left for 2 long it can get to a point that u cant repair the casing...
so dont leave it 2 long... Cause when it does go it goes and from what ive heard (from the trans shop) the case isn't salvageable half the time.... and ure stuck with only 3rd gear and no reverse.

i didn't go full out on my trans filter, seals and a reco torque converter and replaced the clutches in the low reverse clutch pack (worn out).

Sorry to hear bout ure trans another one affect....
that article missed one thing too not only is the standard filter got a small unsealed area its made of foam 2, and with the vibrations of the pump the metal can actually vibrate its way through the foam.
there arent any bands in the trans only clutch packs u might be able to get some new discs with a better friction coating on them but unknown 2 me.
when i rebuilt mine i was like u and lucky to find the metal.... before it failed
the problem i noticed was that the spring as it had broken up was digging into the alloy casing of the trans... where the clutch pack moves up and down this is really bad if left for 2 long it can get to a point that u cant repair the casing...
so dont leave it 2 long... Cause when it does go it goes and from what ive heard (from the trans shop) the case isn't salvageable half the time.... and ure stuck with only 3rd gear and no reverse.

i didn't go full out on my trans filter, seals and a reco torque converter and replaced the clutches in the low reverse clutch pack (worn out).


Cheers gtrtwinturbo! Fully! Will get it done within the next month (I'm aiming for it)... Its really weird though at the moment, my car is pulling harder and much smoother changes with no slippage at all? I guess she coughed up most of the fur ball! Will put her in for surgery soon to clean her up!

So if I was to get my 4sp AUTO "beefed-up" (or even just serviced).... where would I take it? What's everyone's advice? And lastly, and probably least important, how much?

Cheers guys.

CRO@, when I get a rough estimate I'll let you know!

Apparently its quite common in the Magna 4 spd auto's to thump (or appear to 'slip') going into 3rd gear. The problem can be noticed by either a slightly harsher change into 3rd gear or the rev's going slightly higher inbetween changing gears (which sounds like the issue you're having). This issue only occurs when changing from 2nd to 3rd gear.


Third Gear Thump
A thump into third gear is apparently quite common in Mitsubishis of the late ‘90s. While the trans flush will almost certainly improve shift quality across the board, the real problem is with the Mitsubishi transmission electronics. The industry ‘fix’ is to disconnect the battery for a few seconds, reconnect it, start the engine and cycle the transmission from Neutral to Reverse and Neutral to Drive at least five times. This process serves to reset the ECU that controls the transmission and let it relearn the sensor signals for each gear position. Shift quality will continue to improve over the next few kilometres. http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_Flushing-your-Transmission/A_3019/article.html Accessed 15 Apr 2010

I have also read elsewhere, but haven't actually heard of it being done or whether the information is true, that the 3rd gen auto's (not sure starting from what model, maybe TH?) have updateable software on them which probably gets around the issue altogether. If true, I don't know whether Mitsubishi have released updated software for it, but you can try googling it :)

The killer with any service of the FWD electronic auto box is labour. Gotta get box off motor, out of car, and dismantle.

As wave spring is broken, is wise to look throughout box for damage caused by loose pieces as they wash around in the trans fluid. Also wise for trans specialist to look over clutches etc, to determine if anything is due for replacement due to wear-and-tear (you've spent all this moeny so far getting box out and pulled apart, you don't want to throw it back together if something has only 10K more life left).

In my case, broken wave spring jammed the rotor of transmission oil pump (rotor is like a cog running around inside an outer "cog" stator).... when the spring jams between rotor and stator - the rotor shatters and in the dying seconds of its life, the smaller shattered pieces can flow with the fluid into other parts and cause further damage. With the oil pump destroyed, your transmission will not drive in any direction - neutral all the way!

To repair mine (not full reco, as box had only done 58K) was $2200 - tow-in, drive-out - I never had to get my hands dirty. This included a reconditioned torque-convertor neck (exchange parts basis) and whatever parts the guys thought needed changing..... did not include things like replacing solenoids etc - a full reco doing things like the solenoids was priced at $3000-00 or more. As box had done little, I went for the cheaper option.

Similar problem affected my dad's car at about 180K. He and brother pulled box out of car, took it to trans guy, had it done up (same drama, shattered oil pump rotor jammed by piece of wave spring). Then we all battled to reinstall back into the car (I missed the extraction fun, but was there for reinstall). Cost that way was about $1000- but meant we had lots of struggle and time expended by 3-4 family members, on top of the money paid to specialist.

In both cases, our cars were fitted with a one-piece wave-spring as replacement part - think these were sourced from auto-trans parts wholesalers, not from Mitsi spares. (My KJ repair used parts def not sourced via Mitsi, not sure about dad's TJ).

If box is out and being stripped, you could think about upgrade of diff (LSD?) while the box is out. Not sure what, if anything, is available to make the auto box itself more bullet-proof. If your research or quotes turn up any interesting options - be sure to post-up details???