hi all,
the latest problems on the good old magot...oops i mean magna are that the water pump is leaking (seems simple enough fix, considering what else ive attempted ) and the charge light keeps coming on and off. it doesn't matter how many revs you have 1500 or 4000 there is no rhyme or reason. it is even on when the volt gauge is bordering the red zone. first off i pulled off the connector to the regulator and the light went out, so then pulled the brushes out and found they are very small and worn. is this likely to be the intermittent fault or is there something bigger to it? we even went for a driving lesson ( im on my l's) and in the first 5 minutes it was on, then stayed on for the next 1/2 hour of driving.
any suggestions greatly appreciated!
regards jay

Well, brushes seem gone but slip rings will need to be polished.
you can either
1) just replace brushes/regulator and hope for the best on old slip rings, not recommended unless you dont give a ****
2) get another alternator from the wreckers, may work, may not work, again, taking a chance.
3) price a new alternator and get a price to get one rebuilt. That's the safest option. That is what I would be doing if you plan on keeping it for a little while.

waterpumps for the TP are for sale on Ebay

first try replacing the regulator of the alternator
get that from an auto electrician

thanks for the quick replys
the car isnt currently mine but it will be in the future (September is when the rego runs out so anytime after that if its still moving) and my neighbor has no great deal of money to put into it as he has 2 other cars so the good old magna is on the bottom of the list. as to slip rings what are they worth? if i were to just clean them up with some metho would that do the job then i will get another second hand regulator and solder new brushes into it. i understand there is a proper way and then there is my way but seeing as the water pump needs attention too the money pool will soon wear thin.
also what should i expect to pay for the gasket kit for the pump and new brushes.
thanks again
regards jay

Best to talk to an auto elec about this kind of stuff or even if you search yellow pages for suppliers of auto electrical shit they can help you out too (ashdown-ingram for one)
It may not cost you much at all to just get a new reg put in + slip rings polished but I would definitely do it, I wasn't in the treade long but when brushes wore out the slip rings got covered in shit and would of just been stupid to not clean them up for proper contact

Hi. It is an interesting coincidence that several of us have had this problem recently. I had the same symptoms with my TP wagon when I bought it in Nov. 2002. Once I diagnosed the problem, I installed a new regulator and it has been ok ever since. I'm fairly sure it cost either $95 or $125 from Parramatta Mitsubishi. I can't find a record of it so must have paid cash. That was before Mitsubishi dropped parts support for 1st and 2nd gens.

Anyway a couple of weeks ago, I started getting the same symptoms with my TP sedan. The wagon is off the road now due to a minor accident. It is not registered but still runs ok, so I swapped the regulator from it to the sedan. That fixed it.

Just be aware that the problem starts off as intermittent but gradually gets worse. Once the alternator light comes on permanently, even a fully charged battery will go flat in about 100 kms.

Edit: Just found that several sellers on eBay have the regulators for between $30 and $40 or just the brushes for $9.95. Do an eBay search for "voltage regulator".

thanks all,
i went down to bursons yesterday and purchesed some new brushes for $3.00 for the good old magna. i installed them today and the problem is still present. i even dismantled the alternator and cleaned the slip rings with petrol and a wire brush (possibly not the best method but it was all that was available). so anyway i have now reinstalled the alternator and the light still shines bright. when reading the battery its up around 12 before starting and at idle but upon acceleration it went to around 13.5, so i am wondering whether the alternator is putting out enough voltage or not. another thing is the dash volt meter takes along time to reach 12 volts (over a minute) and has not reached anything beyond. so i am debating wether or not to go to the local auto wreckers and get a second hand alternator with a warranty or investigate further and possibly try making one alternator out of two as i also have one out of a hq kingswood that is basically identical accept for regulator and housing.
the next thing im wondering, although unlikely is that the battery may have been drained due to starting and stopping and not have enough volts for the light to extinguish even when the alternator is working?
any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
regards jay

I pulled an old regulator to bits to see what was inside

the internals of the regulator is like thin alfoil
in sheets and a printed circuit all glued in
with an araldite type product (inside the black plastic part)
all non repairable
the insulation breaks down with heat
even when the brushes are good

still think it is the regulator .. yet its good to push out 13.5
by that read out the light should be off
but it isnt going out and that is anoying

it is common on first gens for the dash volt meter to take its time to show full charge

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/magnabuff/regulator_173.jpg

thanks all,
i went down to bursons yesterday and purchesed some new brushes for $3.00 for the good old magna. i installed them today and the problem is still present. i even dismantled the alternator and cleaned the slip rings with petrol and a wire brush (possibly not the best method but it was all that was available). so anyway i have now reinstalled the alternator and the light still shines bright. when reading the battery its up around 12 before starting and at idle but upon acceleration it went to around 13.5, so i am wondering whether the alternator is putting out enough voltage or not. another thing is the dash volt meter takes along time to reach 12 volts (over a minute) and has not reached anything beyond.

Are you measuring the battery voltage with something other than the dash volt meter? e.g. a multimeter? When the battery voltage goes up to 13.5, does the alternator warning light on the dash go out? Otherwise that doesn't make much sense. For the voltage to rise when you rev it, the alternator would have to be working, in which case the light should not be on. It should go out within a second or two of start-up. The dash volt-meter does lag behind quite a bit but should soon go up near the top of its range, well over 12 volts.

If you are confident you have fitted the brushes correctly and they are making proper contact, that leaves the possibility that the regulator has another fault. I think there is a rectifier (diode bridge) in there that could have burnt out. If that failed though, I would expect it to fail completely in one go rather than go intermittent and then fail. I suppose there could be a fault elsewhere in the alternator but the symptoms you first described all seem to point to the regulator. If it were me, I would replace the regulator, not the whole alternator, unless I had no faith at all in the rest of the alternator.


the next thing im wondering, although unlikely is that the battery may have been drained due to starting and stopping and not have enough volts for the light to extinguish even when the alternator is working?
any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
regards jay

It would not do that. If the alternator is working, the light will go out regardless of the state of the battery. (assuming there is no other problem such as a wiring problem) The alternator has plenty of excess capacity.

Edit: I see magna buff replied while I was still typing. Good to see that we are both of the same opinion.

thanks guys, very helpful lot on this forum!
i have been checking the voltage with a good quality fluke multimeter, that i know is correct. is there any formal was to check the regulator assembly? another problem may be that the brushes arnt making proper contact because the slip rings are heavily worn, but then there would be no voltage output right? i am contemplating going to the wreckers and buying a regulator first and seeing if that changes the situation (although there is no real way of knowing it its any good?) what price should i expect for a second hand alternator? if its a $30 item i would be happy to pay the 10% extra for a 1 month warranty that the wreckers give as an option if it at least put the matter to rest for the foreseeable future. also something i neglected to mention is that the light goes out, and always has when you remove the leads that connect to the regulator its self. i am wondering whether the regulator has an inbuilt fault system, that illuminates the light when the regulator is bad?.
ow well the $3 brushes were worth a try as far as im concerned, as it would have saved the expense of a new regulator if the bloody thing's had worked!
thanks again
regards jay

another question, could there be a short in one of the windings that was intimidate and has now become a full short? i believe there is effectively 3 phases in an alternator, if one became defective would there still be enough power to produce 13.6 volts at the battery but not deliver enough amps causing the idiot light to come on? i think the next test i might try is to disconnect the battery while running the car and see if it dies or not.
if all else fails ill break out the electrical tape and cover the idiot light! when we grind to a halt on the side of the road i will know there is in fact something wrong
thanks
regards jay

yes try for a whole alternator
used to be about $ 50 approx depending on the wrecker
the wreckers I have been to... dont like selling just the regulator
try to find an 85 amp regulator
one off a TR four cylinder will fit the TP

thanks
i will go ring up the wreckers to see what they want for an alternator and decide whether i want to check the diodes and windings in the current one before we spend any money.
as to an 85 amp regulator i will try and find one, but i have looked for one for a vn commodore (which uses the exact same reg) and have had trouble at the wreckers. i suppose everyone else has the same idea!
regards jay

ok so i rang the wreckers and got quoted $35 + 20% for a one month warranty. so thats $42 and i dont think thats too bad. i will get one some time next week and go from there. any tips on finding a decent alternator, i was thinking that one that was clean and that had decent looking slip rings would be a average indication that it had been looked after. also whats better to go for a genuine Mitsubishi unit or a bosch?
thanks for your help
regards jay

after acquiring 2 identical alternator's from 'classified' sources (free) i managed to make at least 1 working unit out of the 3 i had. i haven't tried the other one yet but may stick it in there just to see how it goes. so in the end the original ended up having shorted stator windings, a short from the slip rings to earth and bad bearings, so basically it was totally rooted.
so thanks allot for the help, i will see how the serviced one goes.
regards jay

Light still on means that regulator is cactus. Changed a fair few of these over the years and found that just changing the brushes doesnt work. Also check the slip rings again if they are grooved where the brushes make contact you really need to have them replaced or machined. If at that stage would be more economical in the long run to replace alternator.

UIsually the brushes start bouncing on the armature, causing the light to flicker, then the regulator goes to lunch, and sometimes takes the diode pack with it. Best bet is to get another alternator from the wreckers if it has a warranty, or a recon unit. Use your multimeter on AC (not DC), and see what voltage there is. Blown diodes can allow AC into the system, which can upset other parts. If the lights go really bright but the dash light stays on, it is probably pumping out a lot of AC volts.

its been a wile but i have sorted her out. driven 300km in the past month and since reconditioning an alternator myself she has been doing great. best thing is it was all free. the only thing to happen so fat was when i drove about 40k's down the road and after stopping for lunch there was absolutely nothing in the way of electrics. not even enough to light the dash light! so i opened the bonnet and found acid leaching all over the terminals. once i cleaned the terminals we were cooking with gas and have been ever since.
as to the old alternator when i checked the diodes and slip rings i found that the stator was shorted to earth along with the slip rings (although the slip rings were intermittent, and depended on temperature...WTF?...) the original reg went back in and is doing fine.
thanks for you help
regards jay
P.S. i have worked out all about doing diagnostics so if anyone ever needs help dont hesitate to email me or pm me. my email is: rover@ozemail.com.au