Hey all,

I have the above car that has blown 2 sets of VIBE black air 6.5" splits so I am going to upgrade to get a really great top end sound.

I am down to a choice of 2

Focal 165KRX2 RRP $1099 6.5" splits http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/pdfs/k2_165KRX2%20flier%20.pdf

Focal 165KRX3 RRP $1649 6.5" 3 way splits http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/pdfs/k2_165KRX3%20flier%20.pdf

My question is I am worried about the optimal performance for the 3 ways. I would mount the woofer in the door, the mid range would have to go where the access holes are on the dash and the tweeters where the factory tweeters go on the door near the side mirrors. Do you think the mid range placement would have the 3 levels of sound going in 3 different directions and sound crap?

Has anyone had any experience with 3 ways?

I dont want to spend another $600 if I am not getting the sound quality and I do NOT want to go and start cutting up the car either just to fit them in.

I listen to alot of rock music but also some mainstream and a bit of dance ie PNAU and The Presets.

I am running an alpine head unit, Soundstream Tarantula 6x9's in the parcel shelf and all will be powered by a 4 channel VIBE spacebox amp with each channel spitting out 110RMS @ 4ohms.

The other thing I really wanted to do but am starting to realise that it will not work without parcel shelf mod's is installing VIBE QB69's for the rears. http://www.vibecaraudio.com/products/qb69/ and here is the cut out pattern http://www.vibecaraudio.com/support/manuals/manual_qb69mounting.pdf

The QB69's apparently will give the best bass from the parcel shelf as they are really a free air sub. However, they will probably sit too close to the rear windscreen and blow the thing out without cutting out the parcel shelf.

I use my boot often and dont have the room at the moment for a sub enclosure. Maybe if all other options fail I will look at this???

any ideas / feedback?

Cheers,

DJ

Personally if I was spending $600 on a set of 3-way component speakers, I'd be looking at building a good door pod for 2 or all 3 speakers so they could be properly angled and all have same distance to my ears.
Or if they are mounted in 3 different locations, as long as they are individually amplified then you will be able to tune each one's volume to provide a nicely balanced result.

Think more about how you'll wire it - will the amplifier run the front 3-ways and the headunit run the rear 6x9s?

I've never experienced a blown speaker, despite using full volume for extended periods of time. Apparently the biggest cause of blown speakers is from turning gains up too high and having the amplifier start clipping.
A 'clipped' signal to the speakers is a distorted signal and can burn out voice coils very fast - it's like the difference between bumps in the road that your car glides over, or potholes that break nice alloy wheels.


As for the square 6x9s in the parcel shelf - they'd be better than no-sub, probably better than a typical 6x9, but a sub woofer will sound much better IMO.
I also doubt that even 2x 10" subs mounted at your parcel shelf could blow the back window out, yet alone 2 fancy 6x9's :) So don't let that point be the one that stops you doing what you want.

Lucifer had the 3 ways in his Magna (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?58597-Lucifer-s-TJII-Magna&highlight=), I'd bet he'd be happy to give you some advice.

First of all I would be looking at how the hell you blew the Vibes !

2nd thing is to address your low end.. Look at going a Pioneer Slim line 10 inch... this wont take up too much room and would by-pass the need for over Sized rear speakers..
For some odd and strange reason the magna's rear shelf causes bass to roll off really quickly so you never get satisfied from a pair of 6x9's..

PS it will take about 140db to make the back window to shatter... I doubt you would make it more then humm with the QB69's

I had 2x 12" Earthquake subs in a small car (mazda 121 bubble) that produced 134dB - could have done with a bigger amplifier, but it was way to loud to listen to for long.
6x9s, oversized or not, should have no chance. :)

The first set blew because the installer mounted the tweeter on the factory passenger side door mount without using a rubber gasket which caused it to short and fail. These were replaced under warranty. The second set actually blew the big fuse to my amp near the battery under the bonnet. I took it back to the installer and they traced it back to the passenger speaker again. They replaced it with the speaker on the demo board which I abused the hell out of them for it as they had no more stock. They conceeded to either refund or replace. The black airs were good and very loud but I want to get better top end clarity first. I was too angry with them for attempting to get away with putting a demo speaker as a suitable replacement so didnt get the specifics on the second blown speaker. I will have to assume a wiring problem to happen twice on the same side. The gain is not even turned up half to cause clipping and still is loud as at 3/4 volume.

The focal's are the top of the range speakers that they sell (except if I went to the $2500 price point) but they do not have the 3 way on the demo board. Because they took out the vibe and put it in my car I couldnt get a good comparison in the same room size for comparison so I am going back to them next week for an audition comparing the 2 ways. I am starting to assume the 3 ways arent on many demo boards as of a lower sales rate due to non-standard install requirements?

Oggy, I assumed that the set up of the focal 3 way is that they all link in the xover and feed back to only use 1 channel of my amp?

Magnat, I LOVE my bass and finally realised that before I solve my bass problem I need to get the top end fixed first.

lol, the window blow out was a gross exaggeration but I would like to hear from someone that has installed the QB69's without having to get an engineering certificate. The wife would divorce me if I came home with a sub and it would get damaged with the constant use of the boot or I would be taking it out too much and then wonder why I bought it.

Lucifer had the 3 ways in his Magna (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?58597-Lucifer-s-TJII-Magna&highlight=), I'd bet he'd be happy to give you some advice.

Cheers, I will send him a message!

So the Vibes Blew on the basis that the Installer did a Bodge job both times ? Now you know why I install my own stuff..

I would go the 2-way Focals and spend the rest of the dosh on getting the Doors and rear shelf sound proofed..
amp these puppies up and you should be well on the way to enjoying your tunes...

.

PS it will take about 140db to make the back window to shatter... I doubt you would make it more then humm with the QB69's

lmao... if 140db shattered a window, we would be seeing a hell of a lot of shattered windows around the place.

155dB will put cracks through a screen if it can manage to get enough flex, which over time it will, or the screen already has a chip out of it. 140dB wouldnt even tickle glass.

as far as the speaker debate goes... dont bother getting 3 ways, i can nearly guarantee you that you wont be able to match the sound quality of the 2 ways without paying someone else even more money still to do the install and tuning for you.

If youve blown 2 sets of vibes, you arent doing it right. simple as that. first thing you should be asking yourself is what you need to learn to understand how to not blow speakers before you start looking at spending more money to solve your problem, or your just going to end up with a more expensive paperweight each time.

if your partial to the sound of the focal 2 ways then go find a retailer with a decent reputation to sell them to you, and make sure that theyve got an oscolliscope so that when they level set your amp, they do it properly. make sure they explain to you at what volume it may become risky to drive your system if they have level set it to run a normalised cd at full volume lower than maximum on the deck, and live happily with speakers that wont blow.

My advice - see a different installer as they obviously have no idea what they are doing.

Vibe gear doesn't "break" without abuse or poor installation.

As woob said, be prepared to spend some decent $$$ to get the most out of 3 way.

I agree with the install causing the issues as I definately have not cooked the speakers from trying to flood them with gain or normal volume.

Thanks everyone, I am sold on the 2 ways!

I also agree with the soundproofing. Which stuff is the best? I have read vibe's matting is better that than dynamat on a thread somewhere and have read you get what you pay for.

Finally, how much will I need to do the drivers doors and a rough price to achieve this?


Cheers,

DJ

3-Ways would be best installed with the Midbass and midrange both low in the door. Lucifers old setup might give you an idea on that front, but I doubt the TL door cards would give you enough space for that sort of thing.

If your going to spend a grand on your front stage, I'd seriously suggest looking at Digital Designs DDA's. MGNTZD has a pair of these running in his car and they're outstanding. Definitely a good competitor to the Focals your considering.

As for the VIBE QB69's, unless your planning on having a fully custom parcel shelf, they won't fit even slightly, and from having heard them recently I wouldn't want to be playing music on them. Imagine pairing a 10" sub up with a 1" tweeter, thats the outcome when they playback music. I'd have them Low-passed at probably 100Hz to run purely as free air subs, and give them 200-300w rms a channel to play with. That'd mean a beefy custom shelf, but it'd punch pretty hard if you did it right. I'd just feel sorry for your passengers lol

I have checked out Lucifer's install and to see that he hasnt gone and chopped up his door trims is very appealing. I am waiting to see how there is no muffled sound though and we will go from there. He only had the polyglass focals and not the K2, but it gave me a great example of the set up of 3 ways.

I learnt a bit about the dynamat from his install as well. I cant believe my installer has never tried to upsell me this. I will be questioning their knowledge and skills on Wednesday.

So can someone please correct me if I am wrong but the dynamat extreme should be one layer on the external door skin applied with the window up and put in in small pieces where you can fit your hands in. Double up behind the 6.5" area. Then put back the original plastic protector and then cover this again with another layer of dynamat extreme before installing the speakers and then replacing the door trim?

Not sure how others have done it but I would assume the Original Plastic lining is removed to reduce unwanted vibrations.

Not sure how others have done it but I would assume the Original Plastic lining is removed to reduce unwanted vibrations.

I meant the weather shield plastic thats stops the moisture.

I am going with the 2 way speakers. Bit less stuffing around and now I know about dynamat I prefer to spend some of my cash on that.

Ebay is the cheapest for Dynamat Extreme at $204 for 36 sq ft. $100 cheaper than my local distributor. Just waiting for Joe to see if he will be cheaper than that otherwise I am ordering it tommorrow.

Dynaxorb is also being ordered for directly behind the speakers again, Ebay $44 much cheaper.

Starting to get a little excited now that I have made up my mind and have some good quality information!

DJ

In my old car I replaced the factory plastic sheeting when I fitted the dynamat. I'd be bloody surprised if any moisture got through the dynamat, and a little moisture won't effect the dynamat anyway.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r161/rhys_fairall/Verada/Stereo%20Install/3.jpg

Thats how my old doors were done, dynamatted behind the speaker as well. I found that sufficient, but I suppose you could double up if you wanted to. If I did it again though I wouldn't have put dynamat behind the speakers, I would've used DynaXorb instead, would've been more effective at reducing resonance. http://www.dynamat.com/products_car_audio_dynaxorb.html

Lugo's door looks good.

Generally ( provided you are using a bulk pack ) 1 sheet on the outer skin, 1 sheet on the inner and a dynazorb pad will do the trick.

To take it to the next level, MDF baffle as with Lugo's door, MDF to cover service holes, MDF waterproofed in case of moisture.

Next level again 2 or 3 Dynazorb pads, 2 layers of Dynamat on outer skin plus 1 layer of Dynaliner over the top, 1.5 - 2 layers on the inner door.

Up to you how far you take it. You get 9 sheets in a bulk pack. :)

Ok, I purchased the dynamat extreme bulk pack today from my local and dynaxorb pads. $245 for the dynamat and $54 for the dynaxorb. Dynamat was $16 more than what I could have got it from Ebay but I didnt want to wait or it to turn out to be a fake or damaged product. They lent me the gloves and the roller for easier application.

This is my lunchtime project tommorrow and will put up photos before Sunday night.

For the MDF, how thick can I go without affecting the door trim?

I have been very lucky so far and have not had ANY vibration from the factory plastic fitting with the vibe black airs so I am not sure if I should mess with that or not? (probably will though for the sound quality)

DJ

Ok, I purchased the dynamat extreme bulk pack today from my local and dynaxorb pads. $245 for the dynamat and $54 for the dynaxorb. Dynamat was $16 more than what I could have got it from Ebay but I didnt want to wait or it to turn out to be a fake or damaged product. They lent me the gloves and the roller for easier application.

This is my lunchtime project tommorrow and will put up photos before Sunday night.

For the MDF, how thick can I go without affecting the door trim?

I have been very lucky so far and have not had ANY vibration from the factory plastic fitting with the vibe black airs so I am not sure if I should mess with that or not? (probably will though for the sound quality)

DJ

Easiest way:

Take off the door trim
Remove the plastic sheet, speaker, any service covers
Clean the door if it is dirty
Apply the Dynamat to the inner skin first. Apply in large sheets, my advice is to leave the backing on to get in through the outer skin but peal back only a small corner. Once that corner is stuck down, remove the rest of the backing as you go. It is sticky enough to hold as you push it down.
Add the Dynazorb pad directly behind where your mid will be mounted
If you plan on MDF the service holes, 6 - 9mm will be fine. Couple of ways you can do it, I found that letting silicone hold it in place and Dynamating over the top worked fine. I put MDF sealant on it though to make sure it work crumble when it gets damp.
Add Dynamat to the outer skin. Unlike the inner skin where you may cut a sheet into 3 or 4 bits, leave the sheet whole, start from one corner and work slowly across your door. Make sure every bit contacts metal etc. Cut any holes ( for screws, wires, window unit etc ) as you go.
With the left overs, cover any lose wires as much as possible to stop them rattling. Door should look exactly the same as before but with shiny Dynamat on it.
Make a 12 or 16mm MDF baffle to hold your mid bass. This should replace the factory one.
Silicone around the edges of the baffle to make sure it is sealed, seal the mdf with sealant.


After that your door should look the goods. Generally people use the rest of the bulk pack for the boot but I generally add another 1/4 to half a sheet around the speaker so that bit is double layered. :D

Gloves are a must.

Agreed, if you want 3 ways be expected to keep though $$$$$$$$$ at it to get it sounding great, via alot of dynamat,dynaxorb, mdf/fiber glass spacers, door trim modifications, applicable wiring, then comes the fun of tuning.

2 ways will be just as good and when you start getting into the Focal K2P and above you will be blown away with the type of Sound Quality these put out, but of course they will need a sufficient enclosure (dynamat, mdf spacer) but you wont have to get too technical with the mounting options and it will be much easier to achieve top knotch sq.

Ok going well so far. I have put the dynamat on the outer door skin fine.

I have cut out the 18mm MDF Baffle and 6mm MDF service hole covers but have a question.

Do I put dynamat under the MDF before screwing them down then cover everything with the dynamat again? I have test screwed and it is rock solid and dont think there will be vibration but not sure obviously till it is all done.

thanks,

DJ

I have taken a couple of progress photos but I am not authorised to add attachments???

Anyone know what to do?

Host them on a Website like imageshack.us copy the direct URL and then Use the image link button (the one on the menu that looks like a picture of a tree).
Just be sure to resize to 800 x 600 so they are not too large..

This first one is before I started.

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/djnewy/Front%20Doors/FrontDoorFactory.jpg

I was able to get the majority of the dynamat coverage done in 2 sheets then just some fill pieces to get most of the outer door skin covered. The hardest part was keeping it tight on the two round side intrusion bars. The roller helped big time.

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/djnewy/Front%20Doors/FrontDoorDynamatOuterskin.jpg


I have covered all the service holes but just need to cut out the large MDF sheet a bit to allow for the concave bracket for the door handle to fit back in to the MDF also to ensure no vibration. As listed before the MDF is solid but not sure if I should have put a layer of dynamat under it. Any thoughts?

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/djnewy/Front%20Doors/frontdoorMDF.jpg

Thanks Magnat for the pic posting coaching!!! :)

DJ

Looks the good i am making some wood spacers for my speaker mount but i am only using 9mm MDF !

I have hit a problem. It may be hard to read the captions on the pic but the part I have coloured RED hits the 6mm MDF covering the large service hole and the door trim will not lock back on. I could go and cut out the MDF again but it is too big of a surface area and then I cant real see the benefit of using MDF at all on that section and have no where to fix the MDF to stop vibrations?

Any suggestions for this one as I have wasted over an hour on this and have packed up tools for the evening.

There was also a couple of other areas where the door trim hit the MDF but they were easy fixes.

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/djnewy/Front%20Doors/DoorTrim-1.jpg

Have you tried getting a belt sander one and just go Trial and Error on sanding it back? 6mm Is very small so this could be tricky.

One more thing you should get yourself some brush on deadner and go to town on the pieces of wood then paint them, itll work a treat !

Also judging from the pic a few posts above can the lugs even go into the holes or is the MDF covering them ?

Lugs match perfectly and the holes arent covered. No dramas there. Although I broke 2 of them and will have to pick up a few spares in the morning.

I have dynamat to go over the MDF so there is no need for a brush on.

While racking my brain over dinner, once the dynamat goes over the top of the MDF the stickyness of it should hold the MDF in place and therefore prevent any vibration from where I cant screw the MDF to the door. Does anyone disagree?

DJ

Is there much flex in the MDF as it is ?

Is there much flex in the MDF as it is ?

Not enough to just force the trim back on. I have made it fairly solid and the reason I chose 6mm and not 3mm MDF.

DJ

Well if there isnt much flex in the MDF than placing dynamat over it wont help you get the trim back on!

Figured anything out yet ? If not has downsizing to 3mm MDF cross though your mind?

I'm curious to know as to why your bothering to go to such an extent covering the service holes with MDF, I'd hope your going real high end, mine with just the dynamat covering the service holes was plenty for the Focal splits I had running. Even the DDA splits in MGNTZD's car are fine with just the dynamat same as mine, and they pump more midbass than I've heard from any splits. If its getting in the way I'd just use thinner MDF or ditch it.

I'm curious to know as to why your bothering to go to such an extent covering the service holes with MDF, I'd hope your going real high end, mine with just the dynamat covering the service holes was plenty for the Focal splits I had running.

Easy, Mr Charisma suggested it so I went for it! I have never used dynamat and for a bit more stuffing around, if it makes a difference to use MDF for the service holes then it will be worth it. Previously I have only used MDF for the baffles but that was only on $300 sets of speakers and under.

I have decided on these:

Focal 165KRX2 RRP $1099 6.5" splits http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/pdf...20flier%20.pdf

Not the best money can buy, but more than your average speaker I guess.

I am going to cut the MDF out below the door handle bracket, try and see it if can be attached in the recess of the big service hole and remain solid. If not then I will have no choice but to not MDF that service hole and be happy with just dynamat like you suggested.

What focals did you have?

DJ

Fair enough then, I'm sure it will have some benefit, just be sure its worth the hassle! :P

165KRX2 Focals are very nice speakers, I had the Polyglass 165VR in my car, they were a very good bang for buck speaker, would've loved to have gone the K2's at the time, but they were a bit pricey. K2's love power, so I hope you've got a gutsy amp to keep them happy!

Yeah can be a little more work but fully sealing the door will reap maximum benefits.

I noticed a massive difference with my Bora's doors which are sealed from the factory. The MDF only needs to cover the actually service holes. You may need to sand a little bit back to make the trim fit on :D

Enjoy the Focal's mate, I'm sure they will bring you may years of happiness!!

wow.. interesting service hole covering :P i would take a photo of mine but my cameras at home with no internet connection.
really you need to shape the mdf to the holes, so its sits properly on the inner rebate around each hole. then personally i use duct tape to adhere it to the door, but screws can be just as good as long as youve got something to seal around it.

this also allows you to get the metal bracket back on to fix to the arm rest. unless your used to scribing in mdf or similar, itll probably take you a good few hours.


as for why to cover the service holes... it actually has a more positive effect on resonance than coving the holes in dynamat does. the biggest use of dynamat is to add mass, and decrease panel movement... beefy midbass is achieved by stopping the movement of the panels that make up the enclosure, as well as sealing the enclosure as best possible, if youve got dynamat over the service hole and there is a big midbass impact, it flexes the dynamat which essentially absorbs the midbass.

really you need to shape the mdf to the holes, so its sits properly on the inner rebate around each hole. then personally i use duct tape to adhere it to the door, but screws can be just as good as long as youve got something to seal around it.

this also allows you to get the metal bracket back on to fix to the arm rest. unless your used to scribing in mdf or similar, itll probably take you a good few hours.



Unfortunately with the TW VRX, the door trim actually goes INSIDE the service hole cover but I am not sure by how much (see below post where I have coloured in red) and I am struggling to see how I can cover the bottom half below the arm rest bracket with MDF as even by sitting it in the recess I am pretty sure that the trim will not go on. I am going to try and put the MDF on the inside of the service hole see if that works.

Woob, A question on using just duct tape. Wouldnt this vibrate after time even with dynamat going over the top? By screwing them on they are very solid and would the dynamat stretch over time?

I am sold with Mr C & your comments on sealing it all up though!!!

DJ

weve done quite a few high end competition winning cars in the past this way, all of which have withstood to a few years worth of australian summers, so so far so good... eventually, like any adhesive solution it is bound to deteriorate, but if youve still got your car by then your doing better than me :)

with the bit of door trim that sits within the door skin, the only thing i ould really do is do what i said, scribe the mdf to the service hole, then, with the mdf in place, figure out which bit touches, and build out an internal box for the trim to sit within, while still sealing your door. i would do this with fiberglass personally but mdf will worth too, just a little more crudely.

Wow mate that is kinda interesting that the door trim goes into the skin.

When you pulled the plastic bit off did you notice how loose it was or was there a hole in it so it fit straight in?

Lol Woob - I bet you have lost count of how many doors you have done!

Wow mate that is kinda interesting that the door trim goes into the skin.

When you pulled the plastic bit off did you notice how loose it was or was there a hole in it so it fit straight in?



Mr C,
Yes there is a hole cut into the plastic weather skin (I forgot about that) which means you have just solved the first part of my problem. The hole will give me a template to use on the MDF and it has a plastic style cut out that goes back 30mm which now gives me the exact depth that I didnt know exactly how far it went back.

Woob,

Now I know how to frame out a box to attach to the back of the MDF cover which I would have never of thought of!

I have never fibreglassed before so I will use MDF. I bought a sikaflex auto sealant tonight "sikaflex - 227" from work which is designed for these type of applications.

Thanks guys for your feedback and more importantly your advice! Now I can go and get the jigsaw out again on the weekend!

DJ

Ok, I have finally figured out the MDF covers and my trim now fits on fine. There were 2 points where the door trim was making contact with the MDF preventing the door trim going back on.

Now I think I am ready for the final layer of dynamat. I have to let the sealant around the MDF baffle to cure over the next 48 hours and glue down the last bit of the dynaxorb pad (I ran out) in the morning.

Besides the non-professional finish can anyone see anything that I may have missed before dynamatting? It will be a pain and waste of $$$ to undo if I dont get it right the first time.

While waiting, I have started the other side by cutting out all the MDF using the other side as templates and the first layer of dynamat.

Cheers,

DJ

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/djnewy/Front%20Doors/DoorMDFfinishedandsealed-1.jpg

Looking good...

Have a really really good look at all the control rods - ie from the door handle to the lock etc. These can "ring" and vibrate and it can be a good idea to wrap them in foam.

Thump the speaker base with the side of your fist to make it all rattle and listen for rattles ;) I had my door trims on and off a few times chasing rattle the OE speakers never showed, but amped Focals sure as hell did!!!!

Also, I didn't see anything about the acoustic reflecting foam behind the driver? A good thing to fit as well.

I trust those are not self tapping screws into the metal? Should always use bolts with Nyloc nutc - yes, they will shake loose!

I ended up not liking the Polyglass V2s I had, and replaced them with Hertz which I find much smoother. Found the Focals to be a little sharp and harsh for my tastes. But everyone's ear (and music tastes) are different, as are the acoustic qualities of different cars ;)

@ renoman: He has Dynazorb pads which will act as rear diffusers.

@djnewy: Starting to look good mate!! Have you purchased a set of speakers yet?

@djnewy: Starting to look good mate!! Have you purchased a set of speakers yet?

My local doesnt have the focals I want in stock but apparently they have been ordered. Due to work restraints I have another week of door preparation before I am ready to pay for the speakers.

@Renoman. Thanks mate for the feedback. Just the type of critique I was after. I dont know enough about Hertz nor anyone local to audition them. I also thought about bolts and nyloc nuts but realised (touch wood) that I have never had trouble with self tappers and vibration before. The second layer of dynamat should also assist this.


DJ

It is raining this week in Newcastle which is great to drive my AWD but I will save that for another thread but I have a new problem.

Water droplets are getting in and running down the dynamat from the rain. Looks like it is from the window seals / window. What options do I have to protect the speakers without adding vibration problems?

DJ

Speakers are officially ordered and confirmed today! They only ordered the 165KR not the 165KRX2 last week.

I watched him key the order to make sure this time and spotted their cost price! Now I know what I will be paying for them too and it wont be anywhere near the $1099 RRP.

DJ

I just discovered my ears didnt like the metal tweeters. My tastes are pretty eclectic (Nick Cave, Tool, Royksopp, Classical, Moby, Nirvana all see regular playing - speakers need to be versatile in my car :) ) so I prefer speakers that are not so attuned to particular music.

The Focals are amazing with a good clean amp and signal and electronic music. I can't bear dance music myself (bores me to tears) but Focals shine with it. They are also amazing for vocal reproduction.

But the biggest problem is they are too good - this means if your HU and amp are not top notch, or the install not perfect (including placement which is not always fixable in many cars - I am stuck with my factory tweeter position pointing at the glass which is never ideal for smooth tweeter performance....) they will reproduce that fault and highlight it. This is true of a lot of high end speakers though and you can end up chasing that perfect setup and spending mega bucks!

I actually downgraded in level with the Hertz and got a much more forgiving speaker - plus it has a silk tweeter which I personally find infinitely nicer!! Not as good with some music, but better across the lot on average. I run a 24bit Alpine HU and good american made amp btw - not crappy signals.

But again, the Focals you have are better than Polyglass. When they were right and had the right recording, omg... Dark Side of the Moon was AMAZING through them ;)

I have found in the shed some 4mm perspex. I am going to cover that in dynamat then attach it to the door skin to create a cover over the speakers. I will angle it slightly so the droplets fall away from the speaker. Hopefully this does not impact the sound.

DJ

Yeah mate is should work without effecting the sound ( unless it vibrates lol ).

I usually add an 18mm MDF ring on the baffle to offset the speaker a bit and to get it closer to the trim. Does it actually do anything - probably not.

Hopefully everything is going well!

Whoohoo! Picked up my speakers today!!!

Thats the end of the good news though. I still have a bit of work to do and I havent even got the final layer of dynamat on yet.

1.) The speakers hit the white catch that is attached to the window to stop the window when you close it. I already have an 18mm baffle and now have to space it out another 6mm to miss the window catch to fix it.

2.) Problem 1 may mean that the door trim may not go back on properly as it is 25mm from standard once I make the spacer.

3.) I have not been able to locate and stop the water dripping in the passenger door / window. It drips down directly where the speaker will sit and will short it out. I have made a sloping cover to go above the speaker out of form ply and perspex but am still not sold on how to fix it without causing vibration. I think it will only work with a glue (sika 227) and screw as the form ply is 25mm.

4.) I am working alot with booked out weekends and the bloody rain so I am not spending enough time on this project to get this finished.

5.) I need a beer!

And to finish on a positive, did I mention that I brought home my speakers today!

DJ

you can always add some "Foam Whetherstip Tape" around the basket of the speaker to offset the speaker close to the trim with a seal around it, creating a better baffle. Ive done it with a cheap Jaycar Respone speaker in a Getz and it worked a treat

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2215/sany0755.jpg
By peaandham (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/peaandham) at 2010-05-16

The speaker is hitting at the other end mate. At the magnet end. Technically I need to make a 24mm baffle for it to miss.

I am taking next Thursday off just to get this finished!

DJ

The speaker is hitting at the other end mate. At the magnet end. Technically I need to make a 24mm baffle for it to miss.

I am taking next Thursday off just to get this finished!

DJ

Yeah I imagine they have big Magnets.

I would add another spacer like peaandham on top of the one you have. Use the speaker grill ( if you got one ) for the outline of the spacer. 9mm MDF should still work and allow the trim to go back on - so long as it is positioned correctly.

Which pair did you end up getting ? because if you need to know the mounting depths to get a extremely precise mount see below

http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/k2_power.html

Edit: Also for the leaking water issue you can always just get some really good closed cell foam (ask for waterproof) from Clark rubber, i have used that previously and has worked a treat.

Which pair did you end up getting ? because if you need to know the mounting depths to get a extremely precise mount see below

http://www.focalaustralia.com.au/k2_power.html

Edit: Also for the leaking water issue you can always just get some really good closed cell foam (ask for waterproof) from Clark rubber, i have used that previously and has worked a treat.

I bought the 165KRX2 Focals.

I think I have figured out the water issue. There is a gap on the black cover next to the side mirror. I suspect this has occurred from when the installer tried to pull the cover off then realised that he should have taken the inside off first then UNSCREWED it. Now I have to price another one which I will seal before putting on.

DJ

Would very much like an update on this... when you get some free time away from the installation! Hoping all yr effort is rewarded.

Would very much like an update on this... when you get some free time away from the installation! Hoping all yr effort is rewarded.

Update:

The replacement black triangle part came in yesterday and I am going to pick it up in the morning. I have made the spacer and installed it. I have also sealed the spacer around the baffle.

I am not attempting to put the speakers in until the water leak is fixed as I am not wasting all that $$$.

Goal tommorrow is to install the triangle piece in the morning and the hose the door down and check for leaks in the afternoon.

DJ

Cant wait to see an update, this is my door with my custom baffle and mdf over the bigger service hole at the bottom. The baffle is 12mm MDF and the cover plate is 3mm MDF covered in brush on Sound Deadner.

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/6269/sany0862w.jpg
By peaandham (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/peaandham) at 2010-06-26

This is the issue I had when I temp installed the speakers to make sure it all fitted perfectly but it didnt. The door skin sits on the speaker at the top which will pierce the speaker once it gets cranking. I could find no other solution than to cut out the door trim and use the grill that came with the speakers.

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/djnewy/Front%20Doors/SDC10709.jpg


Here is the cut out photo of the trim.

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/djnewy/Front%20Doors/SDC10727.jpg

So once I cut out the door skin, fitted the speaker and the focal grill it ended up like this.

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/djnewy/Front%20Doors/SDC10728.jpg


I created another problem for myself. I measured the widest point of the focal speaker grill instead of the smallest which means the hole is slightly too big. It still wouldnt have mattered with the shape of the door skin at the bottom, it sticks out too far creating a gap which I am temporarily going to fill with black foam until I can think of something (I wish I knew how to fibreglass).

http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/djnewy/Front%20Doors/SDC10729.jpg

did you only cut the one trim? If i were in your spot i would get another trim from the wreckers and remake the speaker baffle to bring the speaker lower.
I have the same problem with my but i have a hpf so the cone doesnt excurse so far but thats the way i wanted it anyway.

Thanks Pea for the feedback.

I did think about that for a second but....

When you put the backing plate on that holds the factory grill for the door skin, I still do not think that there is going to be enough room? May have to measure.

DJ

This is starting to be a pain in the arse! My passenger power window regulator has now died. I am waiting on a replacement from "lancercity" on ebay to arrive. Another unneccessary delay. The only positive is that I dont have to peel back or waste the second layer of dynamat.

DJ

Have you thought of any ideas regarding the grille yet ?

Wow, I have been away from AMC for a month now. I have had a few dramas which has held this up even more. Firstly my window regulator died and I repaced that. Then that triangle piece had nothing to do with the water leaking. It ended up being the window seals which needed replacing and cost me $244 with installation. I decided to get Mitsu to do it right once, so I do not get any water on the speakers. It is impossible to make a rain shield to go above the speakers like the factory plastic shield as there would be vibration so I am leaving it as it is.

Second layer of dynamat is going on on Tuesday. My warranty is going to run out by the time I get this thing finished.

DJ

Have you thought of any ideas regarding the grille yet ?

For now Pea, I am going to leave it as it is. I will get some closed foam that will match the colour of the trim for now.

DJ

Just get a bigger grill!

Can't you just modify the hole to fit the original factory grille over the hole, overlapping the edges?

It is impossible to make a rain shield to go above the speakers like the factory plastic shield

DJ

No its not. Cut the plastic shield off the stock grille with a jigsaw or a dremel and then attach it onto the back of your baffle.