I am so over the poor braking performance my pads and rotors

So in the mail ATM I have new pads and rotors

now I am thinking if I am going to spend the money on quality pads and rotors I should spend the money on the brake fluid too

But I dont know where to start

I think the DOT 4 is recommended but where do I go from there?? I saw Brembo and PBR have a performance fluid with higher boiling points but is there any other alternatives??

Edit : Penrite and Nulon both have impressive looking specs on their Performance brake fluids and both are AU companies

im using Valvoline Super DOT 4... much better than garden variety DOT 4

From what I have read so far Super DOT 4 is also know as DOT 5.1 as it has an ester glycol base and good properties of a DOT 4 but the performance of DOT 5 without being silicon based

Brembo LCF 600 that's what will be going in mine. This is about the cheapest place I have seen http://www.vsport.com.au/ecommerce/index.php?productID=218
They say two 500ml bottles for a full flush which should leave you with about 1/2 a bottle for top ups.

Holy Smokes

I was thinking paying that price for 2 bottles of something less extreme

but the specs on that are Awesome

I have previously used Castrol Super Dot 4 in my evo, and this was fine for street use, and spirited driving.

I also used it on the track but it lost its consistency early and boiled towards the end of the day and needed to be bleed after a trackday.

Unless you are going to be doing track work with your car I wouldn't recommend spending your money on a high grade brake fluid, Unless you are doing high speed braking consistently and often on the street.

Just get some Super Dot 4 and with your new Pads and Rotors and fresh fluid, Im sure you’ll notice an increase in braking performance.

Castrol Super Dot 4 is around 10ish dollars for 500ml, I think you'd be better saving your money on expensive fluid now, give super dot 4 a try and if you dont like it, you can flush it out for a more expensive fluid.

PBR Performance Fluid from Repco is about $20ish per bottle, I haven't had the chance to boil them and they hold up well to DBA 4000 fronts, Street slotted rears and Bendix Ultimate pads.

Brembo LCF 600 that's what will be going in mine. This is about the cheapest place I have seen http://www.vsport.com.au/ecommerce/index.php?productID=218
They say two 500ml bottles for a full flush which should leave you with about 1/2 a bottle for top ups.

This is the same gear we have in ours at the moment! I can tell that it works because we have little to no brake fade compared to the crap we were using.

PBR Performance Fluid from Repco is about $20ish per bottle, I haven't had the chance to boil them and they hold up well to DBA 4000 fronts, Street slotted rears and Bendix Ultimate pads.

I'll put in another vote for PBR Performance fluid.

I am using TRW Lucas RBF600 Racing Brake Fluid one of the better high temp fluids and one of the few that last the Macquarie pass test

Mac pass is nothing

Mt Ousley when someone decides they have NFI at the exit and you got nothing left after riding the brakes on the way down

That is the true test

PBR fluid will be picked up tomorrow

There's no point in having mega expensive brake fluid in a street car. I use Castrol Super DOT 4 from SuperCheap Auto for like $10 per 500ml in my Evo. Unless you're doing a lot of track work, normal fluid is more than adequate.

There's no point in having mega expensive brake fluid in a street car. I use Castrol Super DOT 4 from SuperCheap Auto for like $10 per 500ml in my Evo. Unless you're doing a lot of track work, normal fluid is more than adequate.

I drive in Sydney peak and also do alot of mountain driving

an extra 10 bucks is nothing IMO if it means gaining confidence back in my braking system plus I am looking to do a few hot laps soon so may as well do that little bit now

Other than throwing money away, is there any down side to using a "performance/racing" style brake fluid in a street car?
When I put on my slotted DBA's I'll probably just go for a Super DOT4, but just wondered for those who may be going for a more expensive 'Racing' brake oil for street use.

There's no point in having mega expensive brake fluid in a street car. I use Castrol Super DOT 4 from SuperCheap Auto for like $10 per 500ml in my Evo. Unless you're doing a lot of track work, normal fluid is more than adequate.

Same!.... as recomended by a knowledgable race mate.


Other than throwing money away, is there any down side to using a "performance/racing" style brake fluid in a street car?
When I put on my slotted DBA's I'll probably just go for a Super DOT4, but just wondered for those who may be going for a more expensive 'Racing' brake oil for street use.

Some will deteriorate your brake lines.

Whether or not you have any brakes left at the end of a long decent depends more on how you use the brakes, and the type of pads you use, rather than the brake fluid. Use engine braking as much as possible, and use the brakes to control your speed in short bursts, rather than continuously. If your brake fluid boils, it will pop the cap on the reservoir and spray all over the place, and you lose brakes instantly. Not fun! Getting a soggy pedal and poor braking on the other hand, is down to the pad temperatures entirely.

my idea was, since i have high temp pads and rotors, why not just tick all 3 boxes and it was on $10 more per bottle so it was hardly a sting at all, not like going a bottle of Motul fluids which from memory thought WTF.. has the same boiling temp as the PBR Performance fluid but its much more expensive again.

Bit off topic but, if you plan to change your fluid, the Second Gen guys have a good method using a drink bottle. Hiding things from us I guess. It is here http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49712

Bit off topic but, if you plan to change your fluid, the Second Gen guys have a good method using a drink bottle. Hiding things from us I guess. It is here http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49712

When bleeding...as I did today...I took a 2L cordial bottle and stabbed a hole in the side to feed my brake bleed kit through. I like the brake bleed kit as it has a good rubber end to attach to the caliper nipple. Makes bleeding brakes so much easier.
Try and use a CLOSED bottle as if it accidentally tips over it wont come out the top.

Personally, after being in magna's with better brakes, standard brakes, standard fluid etc, I have seen no indication whatsoever (on a 40+km twisty run) that normal fluid was near boiling point. The really expensive stuff I would not worry about. I got recommended the PBR Gold from a member who uses it in his R32 GTST and never boiled it yet.

"If its twice the price, it must be twice as good" is a bad motto to go by. A certain type of breakfast food in a plain box is $2 cheaper than the same in a colourful box. Logical?

If anyone here can boil their standard old Castrol Super DOT 4 fluid from street driving, take a pic of the mess under the bonnet and I will paypal you $10.

well I am getting the Nulon

because its cheaper than the castrol, it is Aussie made, and has the same properties WIN WIN WIN in my book

Anyone has data for both Wet and Dry boiling point for those cheapo Dot 4 brake fluid like Castrol Super dot 4 or Nulon?

Anyone has data for both Wet and Dry boiling point for those cheapo Dot 4 brake fluid like Castrol Super dot 4 or Nulon?

You're not gonna find the boiling point on the street anyway. I dunno about 380's specifically, but I've pushed my Evo pretty hard through some twisty roads - lots of heavy braking and didn't even get brake fade, let alone boil the fluid. You'll get brake fade from the pads way before the fluid boils.

Castrol Super DOT 4 boiling points: Dry: 286c Wet: 184c

Nulon is exactly the same.

Both the PBR DOT 4 brake fluids are actually lower at 270c and 280c for dry.

The fancy Brembo LCF 600 that Fooz uses is: 316c dry and 204c wet.

I got the PBR Gold Performance Dot 4 for the same price as the Nulon

Mate was behind the counter of the store I went in

mates rates FTW

I got the PBR Gold Performance Dot 4 for the same price as the Nulon

Mate was behind the counter of the store I went in

mates rates FTW
The PBR fluid has a lower boiling temp than the much cheaper Castrol Super DOT 4.

@ $7.50 (PBR) a bottle vs $9.46 (castrol)

whats a couple of degrees but why are you getting so worked up over what brake fluid people use??

but I am also boycotting BP products ATM until they do the right thing in the gulf of Mexico but that is not for here to dicuss

@ $7.50 (PBR) a bottle vs $9.46 (castrol)

whats a couple of degrees but why are you getting so worked up over what brake fluid people use??

but I am also boycotting BP products ATM until they do the right thing in the gulf of Mexico but that is not for here to dicuss

because what he uses is best and for all to follow... without arguing.... http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qafLfV7BOHU/SVgnXCP1LVI/AAAAAAAAAjQ/XWOXeeAXsKw/s200/emoticon+sheep.jpg

Just did some research. Both have exactly the same Dry/Wet boiling point, just choose the cheapest brake fluid on sales will do.
Looks like Nulon XBF could be just a repackage Castrol super dot 4....

Castrol Super Dot 4
ERBP, °C min - 286'c
WERBP, °C max - 184'c

Nulon XBF Dot 4
ERBP, °C min - 286'c
WERBP, °C max - 184'c

quote:
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_australia/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/a/AU_Response_Super_DOT_4.pdf
http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Extreme_Performance_Brake_Fluid/

@ $7.50 (PBR) a bottle vs $9.46 (castrol)

whats a couple of degrees but why are you getting so worked up over what brake fluid people use??

but I am also boycotting BP products ATM until they do the right thing in the gulf of Mexico but that is not for here to dicuss
Is the $7.50 retail? Because you said you got it at mates rates, that's all.

I'm not getting worked up, just making sure people get the correct information. I couldn't give two shits what brake fluid people use, just giving personal experience of what I've encountered in a high performance car. I thought it would be a good guide at least to what people would want to do with their car seeing how things work in a higher end application.

Just did some research. Both have exactly the same Dry/Wet boiling point, just choose the cheapest brake fluid on sales will do.
Looks like Nulon XBF could be just a repackage Castrol super dot 4....

Castrol Super Dot 4
ERBP, °C min - 286'c
WERBP, °C max - 184'c

Nulon XBF Dot 4
ERBP, °C min - 286'c
WERBP, °C max - 184'c

quote:
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_australia/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/a/AU_Response_Super_DOT_4.pdf
http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Extreme_Performance_Brake_Fluid/
Yes, thank you. I posted this information a few posts ago.

This is the same gear we have in ours at the moment! I can tell that it works because we have little to no brake fade compared to the crap we were using.


The fancy Brembo LCF 600 that Fooz uses is: 316c dry and 204c wet.

Mine are still stock ATM haven't done the upgrade yet.

MCHenry is the one running the Brembo fluid. I will be putting it in as well as it is recommended by the brake guys who will be doing mine & for $80 extra for a couple of bottles over the cost of a full brake upgrade who really cares.

It's not as if this extra amount of money will be spent every second week doing brake system flushes, I'd say I will sell the car before mine would need doing again.

The PBR gold DOT4 has the same specs as the Castrol and XBR said it on the side of the bottle

Calipers are PBR

I just want the PBR performance calipers instead of the stock 380 ones to be SUPER HAPPY

I thought this was pretty good value especially as I used one of their 25% discount vouchers and bought 6-10 bottles with cheap combined shipping cant remember now its in the shed.

EBC BF307+ Brake Fluid - Dot 4 - 500ml Ultra-high Performance DOT 4 Brake & Clutch Fluid

https://www.onautos.com.au/epages/opa.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/opa/Products/BF307

Googled

EBC BF307 is an extremely pure brake fluid compatible with all systems using DOT 3 or DOT 4 glycol fluid. Two bottles (16oz each) are normally required to flush and replace old fluid.

EBC brake fluid has a very high Dry boiling temperature exceeds 307C (586F) and Wet temp exceeds 196C (386F)

I have asked EBC the following questions:

I have bought a 6 pack box of 500ml EBC BF307+ Racing Brake fluid. Is this fluid being Polyalkylene Glycol suitable for street car use and is the standard 2 yesr flush/replace guideline suitable?

Does it contain corrosion inhibitors?

What is the shelf life of this fluid when unopened in original plastic packaging?

How can I tell how old it is as I could not find any date codes etc? There is an 'a' and a '5' on base of PE-HO packaging?

You do realise that Brake fluid has a shelf life of 2yr, are you able to finish so many bottle by then?

You do realise that Brake fluid has a shelf life of 2yr, are you able to finish so many bottle by then?

Isn't that when opened or from large commercial containers? These are sealed 1 quart plastic containers in a box of 6.

Nope, it's the shelf life of brake fluid, the count down start after it is bottled. That's why it's very important to check the manufacturing date before you buy any brake fluid, choose the newest date you can find.

Mine are still stock ATM haven't done the upgrade yet.

MCHenry is the one running the Brembo fluid. I will be putting it in as well as it is recommended by the brake guys who will be doing mine & for $80 extra for a couple of bottles over the cost of a full brake upgrade who really cares.

It's not as if this extra amount of money will be spent every second week doing brake system flushes, I'd say I will sell the car before mine would need doing again.

Yes it is me that has the Brembo brake fluid. As you know Fooz iv had some troubles finding calipers that will fit my car with the rims I currently have.

To clear this up for some, it was purely an option I was trying as we were suffering from ridiculous brake fade troubles with having the 22"s. I sort out a reputable company on the Gold Coast and they pointed me to the solution I currently have. Which was to use a much higher quality brake fluid, get rid of the brake guard (tinny thing on the inside of the rotor) and upgrade to braided lines (which I havent got round to at the moment). I can honestly say that there is a HUGE difference. There is now NO brake fade or "spongy" brake pedal. Some may still think its all "wank value", but I can honestly say from my own experience it was worth it for me.

Yes it is me that has the Brembo brake fluid. As you know Fooz iv had some troubles finding calipers that will fit my car with the rims I currently have.

To clear this up for some, it was purely an option I was trying as we were suffering from ridiculous brake fade troubles with having the 22"s. I sort out a reputable company on the Gold Coast and they pointed me to the solution I currently have. Which was to use a much higher quality brake fluid, get rid of the brake guard (tinny thing on the inside of the rotor) and upgrade to braided lines (which I havent got round to at the moment). I can honestly say that there is a HUGE difference. There is now NO brake fade or "spongy" brake pedal. Some may still think its all "wank value", but I can honestly say from my own experience it was worth it for me.
I'm taking the GC guys advice too mate. Will be running the Brembo fluid, braided lines, DBA slotted rotors & they are going to cut down some Hawk ceramic pads to fit.

FYI look up the VSport distributor down your way as they made the TMR380 braided lines so have a listing for them & won't have to pull yours off to copy them.

Yes it is me that has the Brembo brake fluid. As you know Fooz iv had some troubles finding calipers that will fit my car with the rims I currently have.

To clear this up for some, it was purely an option I was trying as we were suffering from ridiculous brake fade troubles with having the 22"s. I sort out a reputable company on the Gold Coast and they pointed me to the solution I currently have. Which was to use a much higher quality brake fluid, get rid of the brake guard (tinny thing on the inside of the rotor) and upgrade to braided lines (which I havent got round to at the moment). I can honestly say that there is a HUGE difference. There is now NO brake fade or "spongy" brake pedal. Some may still think its all "wank value", but I can honestly say from my own experience it was worth it for me.

Why do the 22's cause more brake fade - do they block airflow to cool calipers/discs?

Why do the 22's cause more brake fade - do they block airflow to cool calipers/discs?

yeah, i find it strage that you woiuld have problems with running the big wheels...look forward to the answer to this curious situation...

I could be wrong but I imagine that the larger rolling diameter & weight of the wheels would be in effect like having smaller rotors on the stock setup which would cause the brakes to overheat a lot quicker than normal.

I could be wrong but I imagine that the larger rolling diameter & weight of the wheels would be in effect like having smaller rotors on the stock setup which would cause the brakes to overheat a lot quicker than normal.

Well this is what I put it down to mate. Im still trying to find a more pleasing solution after my EPIC Brembo failure!! I will do some research on VSport.

Well this is what I put it down to mate. Im still trying to find a more pleasing solution after my EPIC Brembo failure!! I will do some research on VSport.

So is the epic Brembo fail because they didn't fit behind your wheels or the Brembo calipers fade with your 22's fitted?

I also found this interesting article re brake fluid and comments re race vs street, anti-corrosion additives, shelf liife and the interesting comment that most corrosion problem starts with copper and ABS brakes worse than non ABS for corrosion problems. Well worth a read despite the source http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/faq/BrakeFluidComparison.html

Other than throwing money away, is there any down side to using a "performance/racing" style brake fluid in a street car?
When I put on my slotted DBA's I'll probably just go for a Super DOT4, but just wondered for those who may be going for a more expensive 'Racing' brake oil for street use.

As Zero alluded to earlier some proper racing brake fluids have no corrosion inhibitors intended for street use as they get chamged constantly. Its these corrosion inhibitors that stop your street brakes from stuffing up in a short period and prevent the need for probably at least monthly fluid flush/change. Before using my EBC BF 307 which is labelled as Racing brake fluid I will be checking with EBC themselves as with ABS brakes and dual pistons in my AWDs the scope/potential for corrosion problems is higher than single piston non ABS calipers.

Can the poor brake performance with 22" rims be because they are heavier, so require more braking effort?

Can the poor brake performance with 22" rims be because they are heavier, so require more braking effort?

Dont think so, the difference would be pretty marginal compared to weight of whole vehicle. The extra unsprung weight could only realy effect suspension performance.

So is the epic Brembo fail because they didn't fit behind your wheels or the Brembo calipers fade with your 22's fitted?

I brought a Brembo kit that would fit with my 'original' 22"s. When they were stolen and we brought another set, the new rims didnt have the clearance for the large calipers. I would need to use a 5-10mm wheel spacer or start grinding out the rims! Both of with are highly illegal and dangerous.

I got my response from EBC -
"Our fluid is compatable with all other dot3 dot4 dot5.1 fluids

It is a race fluid so should be drained and refilled after every event
or every few months as it is a highly refined fluid and will suffer from
more water absorption than a standard brake fluid

Thanks

Andrew Bartosiak"

I got my response from EBC -
"Our fluid is compatable with all other dot3 dot4 dot5.1 fluids

It is a race fluid so should be drained and refilled after every event
or every few months as it is a highly refined fluid and will suffer from
more water absorption than a standard brake fluid

Thanks

Andrew Bartosiak"

So it's not really suitable for a street driven car, unless you're going to remember to flush your brake fluid every 2-3 months.