Hi guys just wondering if it would be possible and worth while to put a 380 engine into my 2005 tw, Also aprox cost. Cheers Guys

I have done an AWD and would have no issues in putting one into a TW

If you want to PM me, I can help either way, if you do not feel like a trip to Vic perhaps I can source a local engine for you, do all the mods needed in order to have it ready for "bolt in" and send up to you. I can also of course fit here if you feel like a small holiday down to sunny Vic

You're lookng at $3,000 minimum, I'd say, going by the price of 380 engines atm. I couldn't source one for under $2,0000 when I was looking, (from wreckers) but that will change as time goes by, I'd imagine.



As to whether it's worthwhile or not - I doubt it'll make much difference, actually. :shifty: :liar:


Nah, seriously, it was the best $$$ hat I've spent on any of my Magna's & will consider doing the swap to my TL FWD if/ when the time comes. You'll love it!!

What would needed to be changed, The Intake plenuim to start i guess but apart from the fuel rail and intake would there be anything else that would need to be done.

Sump needs to be changed to the 3.5 one (3.8 one hangs lower), the rocker covers from a 3.5 need to be fitted (as the 3.8 runs coil on plug ignition), distributor from the 3.5 fitted (as the 3.8 doesnt use one) and a few other small ancillaries

All you use are the 75 heads and block. The rest is stripped from the 74 motor - the intake, sump timing gear and fuel rails. Jst going from what alscall told me. Having major arguments with my local mitsu deal. Apparently the engine won't fit into a magna. Different mounts they tell me. So frustrating telling them.

Somewhat related.. I saw my first TMR380 today. Just gotta jump the fence and and steal it. Soo nice :S

so will the manual box mount up? is the 3.5 clutch ample to deal with it? very interested now. also what about computer use the old 3.5?

so will the manual box mount up? is the 3.5 clutch ample to deal with it? very interested now. also what about computer use the old 3.5?

Yes Yes and Yes to those questions.
Although i would advise on fitting a new clutch if your current one has done a fair amount of Km's

mines only around 3000k old if that. looks like ill be looking for a motor in august then when tax arrives.:)

As I have done this I can confirm 100% that the mount does line up, your dealership are wankers as the onyl mount on the engine is the RH mount anyway.

The Boss is there for the drive shaft, I used everything from the 3.5 including timing belt covers and front pulley as the timing marks are in a different place

Bolting to a Manual will also be no issues at all

I can offer, if someone needs to to prep an engine to be ready to bolt in and ship, is just a matter of getting a local engine which should not be that much trouble as plenty of them get wrecked

hey mal would it be an issue with wire looms going from tf 3.0 to the 3.8?

hey mal would it be an issue with wire looms going from tf 3.0 to the 3.8?

Not if it's not an issue with going from the 3.0l to the 3.5l. I didn't need any new looms - not that I know of anyway..lol

Looms no issue but I would definately use a piggy back at very least as the engine is higher comp and the 3.0 tune I would think would result in melted pistons

now, going from 3.0 to 3.5 is no issue but going even 3.5 to 3.8 requires some work on the ignition map so as not to have any detination.

so what if i used a 3.5 ecu and got the guy in adelaide to flash it?

so what if i used a 3.5 ecu and got the guy in adelaide to flash it?

Perfect option in my opinion. (piggybacks suck especially when the factory ecu can be remapped)
Make sure you run 98octane fuel as well

looked into 380 engines, few emails and found one for $1875 + freight getting better

Looms no issue but I would definately use a piggy back at very least as the engine is higher comp and the 3.0 tune I would think would result in melted pistons

now, going from 3.0 to 3.5 is no issue but going even 3.5 to 3.8 requires some work on the ignition map so as not to have any detination.

Obviosuly putting a 380 engine into a TH would make a difference in performance better than the 3.5l? Can u fit a 380 engine to a TH and a TH manual box? Can u use stock 3.5l headers?

Perfect option in my opinion. (piggybacks suck especially when the factory ecu can be remapped)
Make sure you run 98octane fuel as well

Exactly, Steve is by far the best option, I mentioned piggy back more because some have a fear of driving the little hop over to SA lol

There is absolutely no reason you can not plonk a 3.8 into a car with a manual box. Next week when I finally have a little bit of time again I will be starting to look around for some 3.8 engines so we may be able to offer some sort of package deal for Engine on its own or engine and fitting depending where you all are and if you are up for a bit of a drive

suggest stickying this thread or something? lots of useful info :)

hey mal also what about vic roads mate i know with some cars like say a vk commo going from a 3.3 to a 5.0 its ok as that modle care came out from factory with that option engine but as we all know no magna came with a 3.8 will an eng cert be needed, im just asking before i commit to my self to do it and then be dissapointed haha.

Id say it would need an engineers to be legal. prob need the brakes off a 380 too if going that route.

hey mal also what about vic roads mate i know with some cars like say a vk commo going from a 3.3 to a 5.0 its ok as that modle care came out from factory with that option engine but as we all know no magna came with a 3.8 will an eng cert be needed, im just asking before i commit to my self to do it and then be dissapointed haha.

yeah....unless you do a dodgey...I'd say your on the money needing an engineer's cert for it. which shouldn't be hard to attain just a PITA for another process

Id say it would need an engineers to be legal. prob need the brakes off a 380 too if going that route.

yeah i know a place where some 380 brakes are cant be too hard to get, the guy has a bung hand so wouldnt put up too much of a fight hahaha.

The 3.8L ive just built for the guy in WA didnt need a engineer cert as they just classed it as a replacement engine despite him stating that it was a larger capacity engine.

They told him that as long as it was a 6cylinder of the same mistubishi family (G6 series) and naturally aspirated then there was no worries. Other states may be different but in all honesty 300cc increase in capacity isnt going to worry them too much.

yeah i know a place where some 380 brakes are cant be too hard to get, the guy has a bung hand so wouldnt put up too much of a fight hahaha.

Brakes and suspenion would be the first things id be upgrading on a magna/verada BEFORE any thoughts of a power increase.... stock brakes suck badly if made to perform anything remotely aggressive.

Vicroads site (http://vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/PermitsModificationsAndDefects/Modifications/NotifyingVicRoadsOfChangesAndModifications.htm)

Depends if you get a switched on guy or dummy serving you lol

In Victoria if the make of car did not have that engine optioned in AUSTRALIA (This has ****ed me as the car came out with the motor OS) it needs an engineer's cert. Might be able to try your luck but who knows...

;1255004']In Victoria if the make of car did not have that engine optioned in AUSTRALIA (This has ****ed me as the car came out with the motor OS) it needs an engineer's cert. Might be able to try your luck but who knows...

Victoria sucks then hey (bloody nanny state)

In all honesty its only a 300cc increase which is less than doing a 3L to 3.5L engine swap

If ya really wanna get dodgy..... just do a engine number restamp. 99% of people wouldnt be able to pick a 3.5L from a 3.8L when its fitted to a magna.

If ya really wanna get dodgy..... just do a engine number restamp. 99% of people wouldnt be able to pick a 3.5L from a 3.8L when its fitted to a magna.

Cops wouldn't even check anyway, they just check the rego label for the number. If they do pop your bonnet they would look for other stuff. You would be hard pressed if they checked the number any way. Insurance might check if you stack it, but if your only got 3rd comp i doubt they would even do that

Brakes and suspenion would be the first things id be upgrading on a magna/verada BEFORE any thoughts of a power increase.... stock brakes suck badly if made to perform anything remotely aggressive.

done all that b4 mate i just worry about it because ive got NSW rego and have to do pink slip every year.

because i bought her as a repairable write off in sydney for $500 and i WILL NOT pay vic roads for a V.I.V. in nsw all it needed was a blue slip and written off check done and all sweet because its older then 10 yrs, but vic has the 15 yrs and older rule so i miss out in rego'ing it here for another 3 yrs because i dont want to do V.I.V.

Brett, you are best off getting the 380 front brakes at the very least, as for the pink slip, you will most likely find that the person doing it would not know the difference and even with a blue slip for the engine change, I would say they would not have a clue or you would ahve someone who you know who could fix it for you

Brakes should be done though as per Jason's post, they are not too bad stock for stock brakes but then again can be a lot better.

Now it is registered in NSW, dont you now just take the rego papers into VicRoads for the reg change, that is what we did when we returned to Vic, took in our rego papers, they then did the new reg here with no trans or RWC due to the car being currently registered

yeah mate i feel the drilled and slotted with bendix advance allround are ample just cant justify the cash to go 380 calipers.

Ok just went to vicroads, you will need an engineers if you want to do it legally. If the motor didn't come as an option you need it even though it is from the same engine family.

By the looks of things it might be a waste putting a 380 engine into a manual magna. As ive seen a 380 on here manual do the best of an 15.4 1/4 mile. Witch a stock magna can get 15 straight example me getting 14.8. 380 being 100kg or so heavier than the magnas i dont think thats well shed half a second or more on a time.

Taking out 100 kilo of weight is like adding 20kw to the fly. If you put a 380 engine in you would be around 14.4 i would say. I will work it out on an online 1/4 simulator.

magna has better gearing + weighs less ;)

Ran it through a few 1/4 estimators 13.37 @ 97 mph. With the standard 175 kw at flywheel, Don't think it would be that quick, no way . The 3.8 has lots of torque, that is what makes it accelerate quicker, power keeps you at the speed. I still think 14.4 using a motor with no mods, with mods and a flash you might get 14.1, maybe a 14.0 - 13.9 on a nice cool night. That is with a manual.

Ran it through a few 1/4 estimators 13.37 @ 97 mph. With the standard 175 kw at flywheel, Don't think it would be that quick, no way . The 3.8 has lots of torque, that is what makes it accelerate quicker, power keeps you at the speed. I still think 14.4 using a motor with no mods, with mods and a flash you might get 14.1, maybe a 14.0 - 13.9 on a nice cool night. That is with a manual.

unlikely... mine ran ~13.8 with ~190kw at the wheels


need to account for the FWD factor

Wouldn't be that far off what i said.

How much Torque has yours got?

.

More torque in a FWD car = more wheelspin at lower revs.

Norbys car would have significantly more torque than a stock 3.8L BUT it would be abit higher up the rev range (due to the 294 cams), this actually helps in a FWD as it wont want to break traction quite as much as a FWD with bucket loads of torque down low (hence why the 3.8L works so well in a AWD magna)

Also the engine in Norbys car is pretty close to the "donkey" engine that is currently in my car (my engine has milder cams) and my engine has around the 420-440nm of torque@flywheel

So would it be a worth while upgrade from a 3.5?

If your 3.5 needs replacing then it's an excellent upgrade. The extra valve area 22% and the extra intake airflow of around 25% in standard form, gives it more potential than the 3.5. It's really a question of your buget.
For a FWD application the extra torque of the 3.8 can be shifted with a set of adjustable came sprockets, by retarding the cams you can reduce the torque in the wheelspin area and gain some topend power where you have traction, which will equate to a faster and easier engine to drive.

Cheers Dave

Ran it through a few 1/4 estimators 13.37 @ 97 mph. With the standard 175 kw at flywheel, Don't think it would be that quick, no way . The 3.8 has lots of torque, that is what makes it accelerate quicker, power keeps you at the speed. I still think 14.4 using a motor with no mods, with mods and a flash you might get 14.1, maybe a 14.0 - 13.9 on a nice cool night. That is with a manual.

Can someone comment on this. Cause i cant see it being this much faster than a 3 gen.?

Madmagna. Could u use a 3gen 3.5l manual box with a 380 engine? Or would it more suit the 380 manual box?

Madmagna. Could u use a 3gen 3.5l manual box with a 380 engine? Or would it more suit the 380 manual box?

Yes you can use the 74 gearbox with 75 motor. Remember the 75 is just a punched out 74. 74 box would be more suited IMO

;1257089']Yes you can use the 74 gearbox with 75 motor. Remember the 75 is just a punched out 74. 74 box would be more suited IMO

74 box being more suited? You being a smart ass arnt u lol

74 box being more suited? You being a smart ass arnt u lol

I don't believe he is, the 380 manual box isn't geared too well from what i've heard

I don't believe he is, the 380 manual box isn't geared too well from what i've heard

Correct, manual 380's are pretty slow...have read on here due to the crappy gearing. plus there are heaps more 74 manual boxes out there then 75 boxes.

I don't believe he is, the 380 manual box isn't geared too well from what i've heard

380 manual final drive is 4.111, 3rd gen is 3.73 (I think), and I think the 380 5th gear ratio is shorter than the 3rd gen as well (but not by much).

So right through the gears the 380 manual runs about 500rpm more than the 3rd gen at the same speed.

I find my 380 manual box is really good for quick acceleration in 3rd & 4th gears, but the downside is the higher fuel consumption when cruising in 5th, too much wheelspin in both 1st and 2nd gears, and 2nd gear runs out at a measly 80km/h.

The 380/6G75 has plenty of torque, so I think MMAL made a mistake giving the manual 'box such a short final drive ratio.

One day when I'm flush with funds I'll look into getting a 3rd gen final drive gear set fitted. (Yeah, I know RPW sells a kit, but I'd rather get one sourced locally & fitted by someone I trust like SKR).

KJ.

Good the 3gen manual box will be well suited for the 380 engine.

i think this should be a sticky lol

Just a couple of points.
I saw Snowy's 380 engined Verada pull 150 KWATW on a damn hot day in Qld when SKR flew up here for tune.

And I know of a 380 engine in a rear 1/4 write off with 37,500 k's on the motor.

To continue the debate about the performance of a manual 380 v a manual 3.5 3rd gen.

A few nights ago, following the SA fortnightly meet, I lined up with a TL 3.5 manual. No names to protect the innocent. He had no performance mods that I know of other than a free flow rear muffler. He had a passenger, I didn't. My 380 weighs about 200kg more than a TL, so some of that weight difference was cancelled out by the passenger in the TL.
Anyway, we were so close to even you might as well call it a draw, untilI started to pull away a little in 3rd gear. By then we were being a little naughty so we both buttoned off.

Based on that experience I reckon a manual 380 and a manual 3.5 3rd gen are so close to identical in performance it doesn't matter. The only real difference would be in 3rd, 4th & 5th gear overtaking where the 380 would have the edge due to the greater torque of the 6G75 and the shorter gearing of the manual 380 box.

;1257097']Correct, manual 380's are pretty slow...have read on here due to the crappy gearing. plus there are heaps more 74 manual boxes out there then 75 boxes.

You are corrected, remember I have the 380 5sp box in my car, as do the APRA race cars in the Magnas on the track, the ones with the 380 boxes are a little faster.

Is hard to compare a 380 to a Magna and also with 2 different drivers.

Remember I went from a 3.5 manual box (3.7) to a 3.0 manual box (3.9) then ot the 380 box (4.1) all with the same engine installed so can compare directly from one box to the other

Yes the 380 revs a little higher in 5th but then again the differnece in fuel consumption is not even noticablbe on the highway and around town is actually better as I am not giving the acc pedal as much poke

Personally I feel that changing a 380 to a Magna ratio would be a mistake and a waste of a good 380 box. Why not just throw the 3.5l box into the car if you really want to do the change, I know what is needed to make all the drive line ie shafts etc work and you would not be wrecking a good 380 box

As for torque and power, until you have driven a Magna with a 3.5 and then the same car with the 3.8 you can not really comment on the car,(not directing this at you Paul as I am just generally anwering the above questions now). The torque is right where the auto wants it especially in the AWD, as for the Magna with a Manual, if the improvement with the Ralliart Engine in my car (which will be up for sale in a few weeks lol) is anything to go by, it is also in a nice driveable place as allows you to get some motion and then the torque builds up thus allowing to contorl the wheel spin

The next engine in my car will be the 380 motor, this way I have stepped through all the engines and can give a proper educated opinion on what engne does what and where, no gues work lol